The secrets of "Faith", and the narrow path.

[FreeGrace2]

Well, there is no real sense in arguing with you over this.

Because I proved my point with the definition that you provided, and you are not able to refute my point.

I posted what it says in the Dictionary. If you do not accept what it says in the Dictionary, I cannot help that.

I wish you'd at least read my posts before responding with ignorance of what my post says. I AGREED with the dictionary definition and pointed out WHY fellowship is different. Your own provided definition PROVES that fellowship and relationship are different.

Fellowship and relationship are not two different things (Which is clear by what the Dictionary says).

OK, let's just go over this again. The dictionary defines fellowship as FRIENDLY relationship. That ISN'T just relationship, but the STATE of the relationship, as I've previously explained. And the dictionary AGREES WITH ME. Not you.

The OPPOSITE of fellowship (friendly relationship) is being out of fellowship (unfriendly relationship).

And everyone agrees that relationships can be friendly or UNFRIENDLY. When the relationship is friendly, it is called FELLOWSHIP. When the relationship is unfriendly, there is NO fellowship.

Talk to a couple of college level English teachers if you do not believe me. For I do not believe anything I say will convince you otherwise.

I suggest you do that. You've totally misunderstood the meaning of 1 Jn 1:8 as well as the dictionary definition of "fellowship".

It seems there is nothing further to say. You've been given the truth and you just don't accept it. Even though your own provided definition of fellowship supports my explanation and refutes yours.

iow, fellowship is a relationship that is FRIENDLY. No fellowship is when a relationship is UNFRIENDLY.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So you are saying that when believers have fellowship with each other, they are not having a relation to each other? Are you saying that they are not building a friendly relationships with one another?

In other words, if Rick had fellowship with Bob over the things of God for 10 years, can you honestly say that they do not have a relationship?

Just think about it.


...

 

[FreeGrace2]

So you are saying that when believers have fellowship with each other, they are not having a relation to each other?

Of course NOT. They are having FRIENDLY relations.

Are you saying that they are not building a friendly relationships with one another?

A 'friendly relationship' IS HAVING FELLOWSHIP.

In other words, if Rick had fellowship with Bob over the things of God for 10 years, can you honestly say that they do not have a relationship?

Oh, good heavens!! Fellowship, by definition is having a FRIENDLY RELATIONSHIP.

Just think about it....

I wish you would do that.

I honestly cannot believe that you don't understand the difference between relationship and fellowship still. Esp since you provided the definition of fellowship as FRIENDLY relationship. Not just 'relationship' but a friendly one. Which is key to understanding the difference.

Not all relationships are friendly. I already gave one example and included a parable to go along with it, which you've not commented on but ignored.

So, STOP thinking that fellowship equals relationship. It doesn't. Fellowship is a FRIENDLY relationship. Fellowship is NEVER an unfriendly relationship.

What is the opposite of a friendly relationship? A relationship WITHOUT FELLOWSHIP.

Does an UNFRIENDLY RELATIONSHIP have fellowship? By definition, no.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So now you are changing what you have said before?
You are now stating that fellowship is a relationship?


....

 

[-57]

However, what if a person chooses to believe your belief and they intend to primarily live a holy and yet they also desire to get away with one or two sins? What then? Is that one sin acceptable to God versus say a lot of sins? Why would God care if it was one horrible sin versus a lot of sin? That doesn't make any sense to me. If one is doing evil, it should not matter if it is a little bit of evil or a lot of evil.

34 "The lamp of the body is the eye: therefore when your eye is sound, your whole body also is full of light; but when your eye is evil, your body also is full of darkness.
35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in you be not darkness."
(Luke 11:34-35).​

In fact, just looking upon a woman in lust is enough for a person to have their entire body cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30).
Adam and Eve committed one sin and it caused the fall of all mankind (1 Corinthians 15:22).
No murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).
Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned. (Matthew 12:36-37).
If you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15).


...

Are you telling me you never choose to sin?

 

[-57]

He wasn't saved. He knew God existed and offered alms to the poor. And the angel told him that God had heard his prayers. v.5 - And fixing his gaze on him and being much alarmed, he said, “What is it, Lord?” And he said to him, “Your prayers and alms have ascended as a memorial before God."

It should be obvious that Cornelius was in seek mode. And God gave him more revelation by sending Peter. How is that not clear?

As a saved individual...don't you still seek God?

 

[FreeGrace2]

So now you are changing what you have said before?
You are now stating that fellowship is a relationship?....

No, I have NOT changed anything. I have said that in order to have fellowship, one MUST HAVE relationship first. Fellowship comes out of a relationship (potentially, or hopefully).

I have assumed that you are familiar with how to use adjectives. Maybe I've over assumed some things.

1. Do you understand what an adjective is and what it means?

2. Fellowship is a FRIENDLY (adjective) relationship. Any questions?

3. An UNFRIENDLY (adjective) relationship is a relationship that LACKS fellowship. Any questions?

Let's just start there. If all this is clear, then we can proceed. If not, please ask.

If these points aren't clear, we can't proceed.

 

[FreeGrace2]

As a saved individual...don't you still seek God?

Of course. But that wasn't the issue. Your question is a dodge.

My point is that unbelievers can and do seek God. The unfortunate thing is that many seek in the wrong places.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Are you telling me you never choose to sin?

I said that they would desire to get away with sin; Meaning, they would plan on doing evil at a future date. In other words, I am talking about pre-meditative sin (Which is a huge difference between someone who strives not to sin or who does not plan on sinning and who seeks to overcome it).

...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No, I have NOT changed anything. I have said that in order to have fellowship, one MUST HAVE relationship first. Fellowship comes out of a relationship (potentially, or hopefully).

I have assumed that you are familiar with how to use adjectives. Maybe I've over assumed some things.

1. Do you understand what an adjective is and what it means?

2. Fellowship is a FRIENDLY (adjective) relationship. Any questions?

3. An UNFRIENDLY (adjective) relationship is a relationship that LACKS fellowship. Any questions?

Let's just start there. If all this is clear, then we can proceed. If not, please ask.

If these points aren't clear, we can't proceed.

If you are saying a person cannot have a relationship without having fellowship first for a certain amount of time:

Well, how long before one has a relationship when they fellowship? Is there like a pre-set time limit on that one?

Anyways, I see "new fellowship" with a person as a.... "get to know type relationship."

A new fellowship is still a relationship with a person because you are relating to them (Hence the word "relationship"). You are sharing something together and are sharing your life together in some way. This is how all relationships start.

For example: If the government asks me how long I had a relationship with my fiancé, I would tell them the amount of time based upon the starting point of the day we met until the present.

Oh, and I see a "long fellowship" with a person as a... "deeper relationship."

If you are saying a person cannot have a fellowship without having a relationship first for a certain amount of time:

How long does one have to have a relationship before having fellowship?

Is there a pre- set time limit on that one?

Are you aware that a person can receive Jesus in their heart and sup with Him - i.e. to fellowship with Him) right away?

I have posted the verse in my following post that talks about this.




...

 

[-57]

Of course. But that wasn't the issue. Your question is a dodge.

My point is that unbelievers can and do seek God. The unfortunate thing is that many seek in the wrong places.

No dodge...the bible says no man seeks God...you deny that scripture.

You said...some men do seek God. Yes, the saved. Those who God has quickened.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus says,

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Revelation 3:20).

...

 

[FreeGrace2]

-57 said: ↑
Are you telling me you never choose to sin?

I said that they would desire to get away with sin; Meaning, they would plan on doing evil at a future date. In other words, I am talking about pre-meditative sin (Which is a huge difference between someone who strives not to sin or who does not plan on sinning and who seeks to overcome it)....

A total dodge of the question. Please just answer the question.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If you are saying a person cannot have a relationship without having fellowship first for a certain amount of time:

You have it exactly backwards. You cannot have fellowship without having a relationship first.

Well, how long before one has a relationship when they fellowship? Is there like a pre-set time limit on that one?

Your questions make no sense. Nor are they in any way relevant.

There is a PERMANENT RELATIONSHIP between birth parent and child. Right? The same is true of God the Father and His children.

Now, in these relationships, there MAY be fellowship, or not. Do you understand this?

If you are saying a person cannot have a fellowship without having a relationship first for a certain amount of time:

How long does one have to have a relationship before having fellowship?

I never dealt with friendship type relationships, so why these irrelevant questions??

I have spoken ONLY about the relationship between birth parent and child and the believer's relationship with God.

Apparently, you've not understood anything I've posted yet.

<sigh>

 

[FreeGrace2]

No dodge...the bible says no man seeks God...you deny that scripture.

No, I explained it. And proved my point. Even you proved my point by admitting that you seek God.

You said...some men do seek God. Yes, the saved. Those who God has quickened.

Again, no proof or even evidence for your claim. I showed that Cornelius, who was NOT saved when the angel appeared to him, sought God. So your claim is untrue.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus says,

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Revelation 3:20).

...

This verse is about fellowship. The relationship has already been established.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

-57 said: ↑
Are you telling me you never choose to sin?

A total dodge of the question. Please just answer the question.

It is not a dodge but a misunderstanding on his part in what I had said.
He is talking about something that does not apply to what I actually stated.
Besides, even if his question was in proper respoinse to what I had said, I am under no obligation to answer a personal question here anymore than you are. This is not Facebook, but a Bible discussion forum.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This verse is about fellowship. The relationship has already been established.

No. Read it again. Jesus knocks so as to enter a person and then the supping can begin. There is no mention of supping coming at a waaay later time within Revelation 3:20.

For how do you define the difference between a relationship and fellowship?
Can you use a real world example that others would recognize?
Can you provide a Biblical example?


....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You have it exactly backwards. You cannot have fellowship without having a relationship first.


Your questions make no sense. Nor are they in any way relevant.

There is a PERMANENT RELATIONSHIP between birth parent and child. Right? The same is true of God the Father and His children.

Now, in these relationships, there MAY be fellowship, or not. Do you understand this?


I never dealt with friendship type relationships, so why these irrelevant questions??

I have spoken ONLY about the relationship between birth parent and child and the believer's relationship with God.

Apparently, you've not understood anything I've posted yet.

<sigh>

The Wrath of God abides on the children of disobedience. God still calls them children. If a person is not chastened by God they are bastards. A bastard is still a child but simply a bastard child. Technically, all people were saved when they were babies. Then sin separated them from God whereby they needed to repent of their sins and get their heart right with God with a new birth. Why do you think sin does not separate God magically all of a sudden afterwards in our life? Why? Because you simply do not want it to be true (Despite what Scripture says).

...

 

[EmSw]

In a disinheritance of a son, does the son cease being a son? No. Not even possible. Those who have followed the discussion know that the issue is the PERMANENCE of the RELATIONSHIP.

You will be very surprised FG2. How do you explain your relationship as a child of Satan? Will you say this relationship is permanent? Will you be a son of Satan forever?

Inheritance IS something that can be lost, obviously. Which does NOT change anything about still being a son.

So, you say you are still a son of Satan. Explain how this permanent relationship isn't permanent.

Wrong. Rom 6:23 tells us that eternal life is a gift of God. Rom 11:29 tells us that God's gifts are irrevocable.

Jesus says eternal life is inherited, as is the kingdom of God.

The inheritance that can be lost refers to rewards earned by obedience and faithfulness. You know the parable: "well done, thou good and faithful servant."

Hmmm, the unfaithful servant didn't just lose his reward, he was cast into outer darkness. Does your Heaven consist of outer darkness?

Eternal life is by faith in Christ. I've given the MANY verses that plainly say so. The kingdom of God inheritancr deals with the RELATIONSHIP between Father and child. All believers will live with God forever. That inheritance cannot be lost.

Here you go again. Are you speaking of your permanent relationship as a son of Satan? Jesus said eternal life is inherited! I know you won't believe this, but at least you have been exposed to the truth.

The inheritance that can be lost is spoken of in Rom 8:17b and 2 Tim 2:12, and is based on failure to endure or suffer with Christ.

What will you inherit as a son of Satan?

Back to your example, why would there be a disinheritance between parent and child? Failure of FELLOWSHIP, obviously. Which supports my position.

Being a permanent son of Satan supports your position.