The scientific method is itself outside of the material universe

[Tayla]

The scientific method is itself outside of the material universe

Modern science must assume:

1. There are rational human observers capable of observing phenomena, forming hypotheses and theories, and accepting them as true knowledge.
2. Philosophy provides the scientific theory which is guaranteed to generate truth and knowledge.

Both these are outside the material physical universe with its laws and functioning.

 

[durangodawood]

1.There are rational human observers capable of observing phenomena, forming hypotheses and theories, and accepting them as true knowledge.

How are rational human observers outside the material universe?

They seem very much within it to me.

 

[USincognito]

The scientific method is itself outside of the material universe

Modern science must assume:

1. There are rational human observers capable of observing phenomena, forming hypotheses and theories, and accepting them as true knowledge.
2. Philosophy provides the scientific theory which is guaranteed to generate truth and knowledge.

Both these are outside the material physical universe with its laws and functioning.

Watching people with philosophy and apologetics training trying to discuss science is painful sometimes.

 

[Aj L]

I'm a biomedical researcher. No offense but what you said sounds like it would make sense to someone really high on pot or LSD (I only use those because I've actually had discussions with people high on those). Seriously what did you just say, what does that mean?

Also you must know real science doesn't prove anything, we never use that verbage. We gather evidence which supports or doesnt support. If you read scientific articles you will never find the phrase "we have proved...". Thats how the media or courts talk, not science.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The scientific method is itself outside of the material universe

Modern science must assume:

1. There are rational human observers capable of observing phenomena, forming hypotheses and theories, and accepting them as true knowledge.
2. Philosophy provides the scientific theory which is guaranteed to generate truth and knowledge.

Both these are outside the material physical universe with its laws and functioning.

"I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said" - William F. Buckley Jr.

 

[bhsmte]

The scientific method is itself outside of the material universe

Modern science must assume:

1. There are rational human observers capable of observing phenomena, forming hypotheses and theories, and accepting them as true knowledge.
2. Philosophy provides the scientific theory which is guaranteed to generate truth and knowledge.

Both these are outside the material physical universe with its laws and functioning.

Where do you come up with this stuff??

 

[Ophiolite]

The scientific method is itself outside of the material universe

This would be true if you consider that non material "expressions" such as qualia, concepts, the notion of art (not the art itself), are all outside the material universe. But if that is your meaning it lends no support to your argument.

Modern science must assume:

1. There are rational human observers capable of observing phenomena, forming hypotheses and theories, and accepting them as true knowledge.

1. If I pretend that "there are rational human observers capable of observing phenomena, forming hypotheses and theories, and accepting them as true knowledge" I can practice science that is indistinguishable from the science that would occur if I made those assumptions. Thus assumptions are not necessary.

Philosophy provides the scientific theory which is guaranteed to generate truth and knowledge

There are no guarantees, only reasonable expectations.
Truth lies in the field of philosophy, not science.

Both these are outside the material physical universe with its laws and functioning

Drivel.

 

[HitchSlap]

The scientific method is itself outside of the material universe

Modern science must assume:

1. There are rational human observers capable of observing phenomena, forming hypotheses and theories, and accepting them as true knowledge.
2. Philosophy provides the scientific theory which is guaranteed to generate truth and knowledge.

Both these are outside the material physical universe with its laws and functioning.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The scientific method is itself outside of the material universe

Modern science must assume:

1. There are rational human observers capable of observing phenomena, forming hypotheses and theories, and accepting them as true knowledge.
2. Philosophy provides the scientific theory which is guaranteed to generate truth and knowledge.

Both these are outside the material physical universe with its laws and functioning.

Ideas have material underpinnings in the brains that produce them.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I'm a biomedical researcher. No offense but what you said sounds like it would make sense to someone really high on pot

It's saturday and I can guarantee you that that is really not the case.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The scientific method is itself outside of the material universe

So? No one wants to weigh it or take its temperature.

Modern science must assume:

1. There are rational human observers capable of observing phenomena, forming hypotheses and theories

This is a fact, not an assumption. There are human observers.

and accepting them as true knowledge.

All scientific conclusions are provisional, not accepted as guaranteed truth.

Philosophy provides the scientific theory which is guaranteed to generate truth and knowledge.

The scientific method rests on assumptions, yes. The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding seems pretty good. The success of the scientific program lends us confidence that the assumptions are justified.

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

1. There are rational human observers capable of observing phenomena, forming hypotheses and theories, and accepting them as true knowledge.

This starts to sound like "if a tree falls in the forest and squishes a mime and there's no-one else around to hear, does anybody care?"

It's also not really right, one forms a hypothesis based on the existing data/evidence. One then conducts experiments to prove/disprove the hypothesis. If, and only if, the hypothesis is found to be consistant with the observable reality of the experimental results and other forthcoming data then it gets to become a theory, which can then be amended or scrapped as further results are observed.

C'mon, this is barely secondry school level science.

 

[Maxwell511]

The scientific method is itself outside of the material universe

Modern science must assume:

1. There are rational human observers capable of observing phenomena, forming hypotheses and theories, and accepting them as true knowledge.
2. Philosophy provides the scientific theory which is guaranteed to generate truth and knowledge.

Both these are outside the material physical universe with its laws and functioning.

Firstly I don't agree with materialism as a philosophy but......

Science restricts itself to a SUBSET OF MATERIAL THINGS. Science never claims to explain everything.

You don't have to right in your methods in your paper how you got drunk with your other grad student and then got a hotel room. It is part of the process dammit but it is not necessary for your explanation of a phenomenon.

 

[Tayla]

Science restricts itself to a SUBSET OF MATERIAL THINGS. Science never claims to explain everything.

Yes, I agree. That is my point exactly.

 

[Ophiolite]

Yes, I agree. That is my point exactly.

In that case:
1. Why didn't you say so?
2. Do you realise that your opening post says nothing like that?

 

[RealityCheck01]

The scientific method is itself outside of the material universe

The scientific method is a process inside the material universe that people studying the material universe have established over the last few centuries. So that statement is incorrect.

Modern science observes that rational human observers exist. Modern science is not about "truth". Modern science is about matching ever more closely what the material universe tells us about itself.

 

[durangodawood]

The scientific method is a process inside the material universe that people studying the material universe have established over the last few centuries. So that statement is incorrect.

Modern science observes that rational human observers exist. Modern science is not about "truth". Modern science is about matching ever more closely what the material universe tells us about itself.

What about a recipe?

I know its reproduced on a printed page or screen. But the recipe itself. Material thing or not?

 

[Tayla]

Modern science observes that rational human observers exist.

A good observation. But the descriptions of the universe do not include such a principle or property as mind or consciousness. That's my point: science depends upon something existing that it denies the existence of.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

What about a recipe?

I know its reproduced on a printed page or screen. But the recipe itself. Material thing or not?

A recipe is a physical symbolic representation of a sequence of physical operations. We often talk about such indirect representations in terms of abstraction and conceptualisation, but it's just another (simpler) meta-language (a way of representing representations).

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

A good observation. But the descriptions of the universe do not include such a principle or property as mind or consciousness. That's my point: science depends upon something existing that it denies the existence of.

No, that's quite wrong. Whole fields of science are involved in studying the mind and consciousness - and constantly making new discoveries about them.