The same thing, or not?

[LovebirdsFlying]

To me these two statements are entirely different, yet there are many who act as if, when you've said the first, it's the same as saying the second, and people who feel otherwise are unreasonable.

Statement One: "I shouldn't have said that."

Statement Two: "I was wrong to say that. I'm sorry."

Let's say George and Martha have had an argument. George said something that hurt Martha's feelings, after which he makes Statement One.

Martha later observes, "You never did apologize for saying that."

George is baffled and incensed. "What do you mean, I didn't apologize? I told you I shouldn't have said that. What do you want me to do, grovel? You're just impossible to please." He truly feels he did apologize, even though he didn't say the words, "I'm sorry" or admit to being wrong.

Is Statement Two implied in Statement One, so that saying the first means the second isn't necessary?

Why are the words in Statement Two so doggone hard to say?

 

[snoochface]

I don't think statement one is an apology. It's an acknowledgment of wrong doing, but knowing what you did was wrong is not the same as being sorry for it.

 

[pursuetruth]

I totally agree with you. To me, "I shouldn't have said that" simply implies that he doesn't like that what he said was met with distaste. That is totally different from saying you are sorry, and you were wrong to have said it.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I feel that way too. The way I see it, if it doesn't contain the words "I'm sorry," it's not an apology. And if it contains anything extra *after* the "I'm sorry," it's questionable. "I'm sorry you took it that way." "I'm sorry for whatever you think I did wrong." "I'm sorry, but you drove me to it." Those are not apologies.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Or when someone says "I'm sorry.... BUT.....". A childish remark of having to have one last word in. But yeah I agree with what you said. Saying things in certain ways affects what they mean.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

What about the reverse of it? I see that sometimes too.

"I'm sorry for what I did."
"Well, I forgive you, BUT....." (proceeds with a big long lecture about why it was wrong.) "And don't do it again!"

Um, I said I'm sorry?

Of course, there are those who play "I said I'm sorry, and that should end the discussion," as a technique to keep on doing the same thing, but then that's not being "sorry," is it?

 

[Dave-W]

"I'm sorry" really does not say much of any value. Judas was "sorry" for betraying the Lord but never repented. Even though some translations say Judas repented; the greek words are distinct. One means to feel sorry (what Judas did); and the other means to turn around, change your thinking and act differently.

We don't want "sorrow;" we want repentance.

Neither of the 2 statements says anything about repenting.

 

[pursuetruth]

YES, Dave! We don't want sorrow, we want repentance. Well said!!
"I'm sorry" can just become an easy out for a person who continuously does the same thing.
I do think that we have to consider that there, for some people, is a shame factor in apologizing,
and I think we need to show some people a little extra grace because it's actually hard for them TO
apologize. To be lectured after a person says they are sorry only adds to that shame.

 

[Avniel]

What about the reverse of it? I see that sometimes too.

"I'm sorry for what I did."
"Well, I forgive you, BUT....." (proceeds with a big long lecture about why it was wrong.) "And don't do it again!"

Um, I said I'm sorry?

Of course, there are those who play "I said I'm sorry, and that should end the discussion," as a technique to keep on doing the same thing, but then that's not being "sorry," is it?

I hate that.

Someone did that with some business I had with them. I apologized they asked a question I answered then they said "yeah but that has nothing to do with me. Nobody has the power........" I said "I already apologized and every time I said that the repeated the statement."

You only get one apology and you're not going to continue to berate me especially if it's business and I'm putting money in your pocket.

 

[Avniel]

YES, Dave! We don't want sorrow, we want repentance. Well said!!
"I'm sorry" can just become an easy out for a person who continuously does the same thing.
I do think that we have to consider that there, for some people, is a shame factor in apologizing,
and I think we need to show some people a little extra grace because it's actually hard for them TO
apologize. To be lectured after a person says they are sorry only adds to that shame.

That's true I don't apologize to very many people but when I do it's meant.

When I say "oh I shouldn't have said that" I'm not apologizing or saying I'm wrong because of what I said, I typically mean it, I may apologize for the method or the lack of tact.

Some people say sorry just to be nice or make someone feel good. When I apologize it's because I'm sorry and I know I was wrong.

It's not hard for me to say sorry I just don't want to be a liar.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

Statement one is truthful more often than statement two and is a peace offering. Statement two is admitting wrongdoing.

Assuming we are always honest with our SO there are many times we wish to make peace but we do not believe we were wrong or that the transgression should have been perceived the way it was.

 

[Dave-W]

That's true I don't apologize to very many people but when I do it's meant.

When I say "oh I shouldn't have said that" I'm not apologizing or saying I'm wrong because of what I said, I typically mean it, I may apologize for the method or the lack of tact.

Some people say sorry just to be nice or make someone feel good. When I apologize it's because I'm sorry and I know I was wrong.

It's not hard for me to say sorry I just don't want to be a liar.

So do you REPENT?

 

[Avniel]

So do you REPENT?

Everyday I repent, every time I'm wrong I can say yes I'm wrong I'm sorry. I just am not going to lie and say sorry when it doesn't mean anything because I don't think I was wrong.

What I find is that people that always apologize typically do so to appease others vs admit they are wrong. If I apologize it's because my behavior is wrong, I don't have a humanist intrepretation of scripture I believe the entire accepting my flaws and being happy in my imperfection will leave me stagnate and unable to grow. I believe everyday we as Christians should work to create a better us each day. Repetance is the only way to grow.

 

[Dave-W]

I somehow think you are not understanding my question. I read your reply as repenting to God for [whatever.] While that is very important, it is not sufficient when you have hurt someone.
Let me be more specific.

Do you say to the PERSON that you are repenting from [whatever]; and then endeavor to let them see you doing differently? (fruits of repentance)

 

[Avniel]

I somehow think you are not understanding my question. I read your reply as repenting to God for [whatever.] While that is very important, it is not sufficient when you have hurt someone.
Let me be more specific.

Do you say to the PERSON that you are repenting from [whatever]; and then endeavor to let them see you doing differently? (fruits of repentance)

No I understood your question please allow me to further my elborate.


I think that depends on how I feel about the person. If I know the person, care about the person or respect the person as a spouse, Christian, business person, intellect or just a genuine good individual they typically will see a change in behavior.

For example let's say my wife and I are arguing and in the heat of the moment I say something very true and very valid and it hurts her feelings. I will say "I shouldn't have said that" and the statement and or behavior won't be repeated.

Now let say it's someone I don't like they will probably get a "my bad" and I will probably say the same type of thing to them. When I can't relate to a person's feelings and I'm justified in my statement no there no repetence.

Now with my wife, family member or friends I say I really mess up(apologize, I'm sorry not literally the terms I will use I do this for pickets) I will admit my wrong to that person that admission is good enough for anybody that knows due to my character.

To people I don't like they might get a "my bad" and that's it.

So it really depends on the relationship if they see a change.

I don't set out to show people that there is a change. There's an apology I admitted I was wrong why would I need to show a change in behavior to a person?

The change is for me not them.

 

[Avniel]

The change should come when one realizes they are wrong.

 

[Dave-W]

I don't set out to show people that there is a change. There's an apology I admitted I was wrong why would I need to show a change in behavior to a person?
The change is for me not them.

Actually it is for BOTH. Remember the prodigal's statement: "I have sinned against heaven and IN YOUR EYES."

The change should come when one realizes they are wrong.

Absolutely. Unless you realize you are in the wrong, it is difficult or impossible to repent.

 

[Avniel]

Actually it is for BOTH. Remember the prodigal's statement: "I have sinned against heaven and IN YOUR EYES."

Absolutely. Unless you realize you are in the wrong, it is difficult or impossible to repent.

I don't think that proves the point that reptance is for anyone other than the person apologizing.

That's an apology


The apology goes to person the repetence is about ones relationship with God.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

There are so many different sides to this issue. Just yesterday my daughter and I almost had a flareup but it was nipped in the bud. (We're both in therapy, and we were both using our skills right then, thank God.) She apologized to me for something that she had said, although she thoroughly believed it was true and needed saying. I told her, in a situation where she didn't say or do anything actually wrong, there is no need to apologize. (I'm remembering a past abusive relationship she was in, where any time they had a disagreement, she'd end up repeatedly apologizing to him with every other breath, and I don't want her to see me the same way she sees him.)

We looked further at that, and it turns out what she meant was, "I'm not sorry for what I said, but I'm sorry it upset you." We then decided that sometimes "I'm sorry you feel that way" is a dismissive brush-off, and sometimes it is genuine.

For Avniel and the multiple apologies: Several years ago, I was a client of a day treatment program for people with depressive illness and/or other psychiatric diagnoses. Every morning, at the start of the day, we would rate how we were feeling on a scale of one to ten, the higher the happier. Another client who, shall we say, was reputed to have a strong personality, wasn't happy that morning. At her turn to give her self-rating, she angrily snapped, "One!" When the facilitator asked if anyone could help her feel better, she angrily snapped, "No!"

"Nice attitude," I muttered under my breath. But people heard me. Now, she was like that pretty often, but it did turn out her mother had just been diagnosed with cancer. I apologized to her.

And ended up having to apologize again for several weeks afterward, because it kept being brought up. My gosh, I know I shouldn't have been judgmental, but how many times do I have to say I'm sorry? At one point, long after several apologies had already been made, she told me again that I shouldn't judge her because I couldn't possibly know what she was going through. I answered that in fact my mother is a cancer survivor, whereupon she angrily snapped (because that's how she talks as a matter of course) "I don't want to talk about it!" And again, in the eyes of the group, I was wrong for being insensitive to her, not backing off and giving her space, even though she was the one who brought it up.

So glad I'm not part of that group anymore.