The Salvation Army's view of the Sacraments

[seeking_perfection]

Hi All,

I hope I'm ok asking this here, please be kind .

I have a friend who is about to join the Salvation Army and we've been chatting about churches. She's recently been to church with me (High Church Anglican) and I am going to go along to her service soon. As we did so, I realised the massive difference between our churches' position on the sacraments.

As a bit of background, I believe that the Sacraments are outward signs of inward grace and that the physical acts really and actually bestow grace on the person at the point of reception. Baptism is essential to be a christian and the eucharist is an important renewal of the relationship with God, through Christ's body and blood by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Now I understand that this is not exactly the case in the SA (to put it mildly ). Please can you explain your position on the sacraments and the reasons for this. If they are not necessary, how does one become a christian/co-heir with christ/child of God? What is the Last Supper seen as?

It would be good to know a bit more!

 

[Emmy]

Dear seeking perfection. When we meet in the Salvation Army`s Citadel we do not take the Sacraments because more often than not we have healed Alcoholikers there, and even the Sa craments are Wine/Alcohol. Perhaps not much, but for men who want to overcome their crave for Alcohol, it would be an unkind temptation. But having said that: our soldiers are allowed to join any Church to take their Sacraments. Jesus tells a Lawyer in Matthew, chapter 22, verses 35-40, " the first and great Commandment is: love thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus goes on to say: " on these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Love is of great importance, and we have free will to choose what is of most importance to us. God sees our hearts, God knows our thoughts and wishes, and however we love our Heavenly Father and show Him our love, God will know. And God will approve and bless us. God wants our Love freely given, and no conditions asked. The Salvation Army`s view of the Sacraments is " we do not have it in our Citadels, but our Soldiers are free to partake whereever they want. I say this with love, seeking perfection. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[A-FRIEND]

I am a minister in the Friends church but have also ministered in the Salvation Army. Both denominations have the same doctrines. We don't use outward ceremonies because Jesus never instituted any rites or ceremonies.

 

[seeking_perfection]

I am a minister in the Friends church but have also ministered in the Salvation Army. Both denominations have the same doctrines. We don't use outward ceremonies because Jesus never instituted any rites or ceremonies.

I don't wish to appear confrontational but Jesus took part in Passover, a Jewish ceremony, his entire life. At the Last Supper he altered this existing ceremony to fit the new covenant, instituting a new ceremony that we were do to in remembrance of him.

To say he never instituted a ceremony seems a little odd and flies in the face of Jewish tradition, which is full of ceremony.

 

[A-FRIEND]

All that we know of the general teaching of Jesus indicates, not that Jesus proposed to institute a fixed and necessary ceremony but that He wanted his friends to remember Him when they ate together. If we are His disciples we should remember Him when we eat, morning, noon and night.

The Christian ceremony of communion is based solely on the account given in Luke 22:19. It should be clearly noted that the words "Do this in remembrance of Me" are not found in the oldest manuscripts and some modern translations such as the RSV leave them out. Many Christians place great importance on a doubtful command but completely ignore the very clear command about the washing of feet.

 

[Lovely Lane]

How about the baptism Sacrament/ordinance? I heard that TSA doesn't baptize. If so, how come? I always thought that one had to be baptized and take communion. In having deep respect for the Salvation Army, I'm sure you can give me a good reason. Thanks!

 

[Christian Warrior]

one has to be baptized by the spirit.

But water baptism is not necessary if you are baptized by the spirit.

Water baptism is purely symbolic. Not to say that people in the Salvation Army don't choose to get a water baptism, some do simply because they want too. But water baptism is not necessary for Salvation.

Spirit Baptism is

 

[Lovely Lane]

one has to be baptized by the spirit.

But water baptism is not necessary if you are baptized by the spirit.

Water baptism is purely symbolic. Not to say that people in the Salvation Army don't choose to get a water baptism, some do simply because they want too. But water baptism is not necessary for Salvation.

Spirit Baptism is

Thanks Christian Warrior, keep up the good work.

I checked with the handbook (good resource) which pointed me to this...
'...all of life is sacramental, so is all of worship'.

Makes sense to me,

 

[ContraMundum]

Dear seeking perfection. When we meet in the Salvation Army`s Citadel we do not take the Sacraments because more often than not we have healed Alcoholikers there, and even the Sa craments are Wine/Alcohol. Perhaps not much, but for men who want to overcome their crave for Alcohol, it would be an unkind temptation. But having said that: our soldiers are allowed to join any Church to take their Sacraments. Jesus tells a Lawyer in Matthew, chapter 22, verses 35-40, " the first and great Commandment is: love thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus goes on to say: " on these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Love is of great importance, and we have free will to choose what is of most importance to us. God sees our hearts, God knows our thoughts and wishes, and however we love our Heavenly Father and show Him our love, God will know. And God will approve and bless us. God wants our Love freely given, and no conditions asked. The Salvation Army`s view of the Sacraments is " we do not have it in our Citadels, but our Soldiers are free to partake whereever they want. I say this with love, seeking perfection. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Hi Emmy,

I heard through the grapevine that the current leadership wants to 'crack down" on people celebrating the Lord's Supper and being baptized in other churches. Is that correct?

Also, is it not worthy of note that many Christian churches (eg. old school Methodists) do not use alcoholic wine in the Lord's Supper but rather concord grape juice. Would that be the kind of elements acceptable to a soldier visiting another church?

 

[Lovely Lane]

crack down?
yeah, United Methodist I attend use grape juice and a loaf of bread.

 

[Catherineanne]

Hi Emmy,

I heard through the grapevine that the current leadership wants to 'crack down" on people celebrating the Lord's Supper and being baptized in other churches. Is that correct?

Also, is it not worthy of note that many Christian churches (eg. old school Methodists) do not use alcoholic wine in the Lord's Supper but rather concord grape juice. Would that be the kind of elements acceptable to a soldier visiting another church?

It might be worth pointing out that any Salvation Army person who visits an Anglican Church and has a problem with the wine - or anyone with alcohol issues - could choose to take communion only in the form of bread.

Both elements comprise the Body and Blood, and so either one on its own is complete.

 

[Lovely Lane]

Just a thought...maybe another reason that TSA doesn't serve communion is in the many different dogma's that have been created in defining communion. The same with baptism also, does one get dunked once or three times, or maybe a sprinkle, should it be a believers decision or is infant baptism ok.

I appreciate TSA's stand on this, which has me to reconsider the reason for these ordinances or sacraments, whichever the name one calls them.

 

[SteveNZ]

I was brought up Salvation Army. I do not attend now but simply because as we (family) shifted around we found local godfearing church groups to fellowship at.

I can share though that I choose to
1- Be baptised and
2- Really do enjoy the sacraments and the time of rememberence that goes with it

I personally think it would be great for the Sallies to have a communion service at times. Need not be in a main service. The same with baptism.

For many of us the symbolism and public witness of baptism meant a lot and I think would be wise for the Sallies to joyfully do so for folk who wish this. Social symbolism is an important social witness for Christ and the church.

 

[TheDag]

I attended a wedding where the minister was salvo army. The couple requested to have communion during the wedding ceremony and he was more than happy to do so.

One other thing worth remembering is that when these views regarding communion and baptism were formed The Salvation Army was still a mission organisation and not a denomination. As such having communion and baptism were things that were considered to get in the way of the mission of the army. Over time the mission became a denomination by default. That is many converts were not comfortable with the services at other denominations. My understanding is because they were not made to feel welcome. One needs to remember this was at a time where social standing was very important and the people who became christians through the work of the army were not socially acceptable people. So these converts ended up drifting back to the armies services and why the salvos ended up becoming a denomination.

 

[Patricia Anne Norling]

Hi All,

I hope I'm ok asking this here, please be kind .

I have a friend who is about to join the Salvation Army and we've been chatting about churches. She's recently been to church with me (High Church Anglican) and I am going to go along to her service soon. As we did so, I realised the massive difference between our churches' position on the sacraments.

As a bit of background, I believe that the Sacraments are outward signs of inward grace and that the physical acts really and actually bestow grace on the person at the point of reception. Baptism is essential to be a christian and the eucharist is an important renewal of the relationship with God, through Christ's body and blood by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Now I understand that this is not exactly the case in the SA (to put it mildly ). Please can you explain your position on the sacraments and the reasons for this. If they are not necessary, how does one become a christian/co-heir with christ/child of God? What is the Last Supper seen as?

It would be good to know a bit more!

 

[actionsub]

Just a thought...maybe another reason that TSA doesn't serve communion is in the many different dogma's that have been created in defining communion. The same with baptism also, does one get dunked once or three times, or maybe a sprinkle, should it be a believers decision or is infant baptism ok.

I appreciate TSA's stand on this, which has me to reconsider the reason for these ordinances or sacraments, whichever the name one calls them.

I am considering joining the corps where I live. I'd asked the commander about it, and that was the reply he gave me. William Booth broke with the Methodists in part over this issue, and his take was that they were not necessarily commandments of Christ, and that neither baptism nor communion confers any saving grace.

If they are planning on "cracking down" on Salvos taking communion at other churches, our commander didn't get the memo. He said, "you can take communion at any church...or you can even take it at home with your own elements."

 

[The Liturgist]

I am considering joining the corps where I live. I'd asked the commander about it, and that was the reply he gave me. William Booth broke with the Methodists in part over this issue, and his take was that they were not necessarily commandments of Christ, and that neither baptism nor communion confers any saving grace.

If they are planning on "cracking down" on Salvos taking communion at other churches, our commander didn't get the memo. He said, "you can take communion at any church...or you can even take it at home with your own elements."

I take it from your profile you joined a Baptist church instead?

 

[actionsub]

I take it from your profile you joined a Baptist church instead?

That's up in the air right now....

(9/18 update: we have transferred to another UM parish.)

 

[Susie~Q]

My husband Steve, and I are both "Salvationist" I can guarantee you that our Commanders have no problem with us attending another church if we want to receive communion or be baptized.

 

[The Liturgist]

My husband Steve, and I are both "Salvationist" I can guarantee you that our Commanders have no problem with us attending another church if we want to receive communion or be baptized.

Since we last discussed this subject, being a lifelong fan of brass bands, I have been thrilled watching Salvation Army worship at several Corps, my favorite being Staple Hill in the United Kingdom. And I was delighted to read in this 1997 article in the LA times that the Salvation Army decided to allow its individual churches to celebrate the Eucharist and Baptism. Do you know if that is still the case, or if the policy was reversed?

I could see myself enthusiastically attending a SA corps that served Holy Communion if I retire from my current ministry (which might happen due to health reasons, but there are people I have prepared to take over), or alternately taking the Vespers service we are planning, which would be easier than the main Sunday worship, or retiring to a retreat house we are exploring the possibility of developing, and also partnering with the SA corps nearest our two mission churches to conduct charitable work.