The Saddest Thing About This

[HoneyBee]

So, I'm on my faith journey to find where I belong and that's all well and good but... I'm a bit anxious about it all. My grandparents (who I live with) allow me to attend whatever churches that I want but... as for actually joining one, I'm not sure if they would actually let me do that. They are hardcore Catholics and last time I brought up converting to another religion that wasn't Catholicism, they got pretty upset at me. Well now that I'm looking at Christianity, I'm sure things will be better... but I still don't think Catholicism is right for me. It would be nice if I could be Catholic, but I disagree with too much in order to actually be Catholic so that's probably not an option for me. I want to be Episcopalian, and I'm not sure that my grandparents will be okay with me getting baptized under them.

They'll try to talk me out of it so that I can start attending RCIA classes, which would make me uncomfortable because that's not the road that I want to go down. And if I try to say no, they'll press me and try to get me to tell them the reasons why I don't want to be Catholic. I don't want to tell them because then it will start an argument and they'll try arguing me into changing my mind. They'll likely win their arguments too because they're trained apologists, making me feel like a fool, hurting my feelings immensely, and not changing my mind on anything one bit. And that might push me away from Christianity again. So, sadly, I feel like maybe I'll have to keep quiet about my possibly growing faith in Christ until... well, I'm not sure when.

 

[Saucy]

The bible says to seek out your own salvation with fear and trembling. There's absolutely nothing wrong with going down the path you choose on your way to finding God. You're an adult and you get to choose where you go. In the end, we all give our lives to the same God and go to the same Heaven. There isn't a Catholic Heaven and a Protestant Heaven. You shouldn't be forced to go somewhere you feel uncomfortable.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

My wife was educated Catholic, and I did a paper in Catholic theology for my MDiv. Although there are a few doctrines which are different to the Episcopalian church, the liturgy is basically the same. It is quite possible to be genuinely Christian, and that as long as you have a relationship with Christ that is separate from any church, because He is not the Church. The Church is there for Christians to fellowship and be strengthened in their faith in Christ. It is like the scaffolding to enable the construction or maintenance of a building. It is not the building. The true body of Christ are the people who have turned to Christ in their hearts. So, whether you continue with the Catholic Church or decide on another, is inconsequential in a way, because if you are a genuine Christian in your heart, you can fellowship anywhere. If the conflict over churches negatively affects your relationship with your grandparents, then you have to determine what is most important. My priority list is: Jesus first, family next, employment after that, and church last. Jesus revealed Himself to me in the middle of a golf course at 11pm under a starry sky, away from any church, and that was to show me that I don't have to go through a church to know and walk with Him, but the support of other believers is important for our well-being, so belonging to a church has its place in our Christian lives.

 

[Celticroots]

You're an adult. You can be a member of any denomination you want. Or no denomination, some Christians aren't members of any denomination. In fact I find it unsettling that your grandparents get upset over your religious choices. What you choose to believe or not believe should not be their business.

 

[Philip_B]

I think you need to have the discussion. You need to respect their view and ensure that you are clear that it is about what is right for you. In their turn they need to respect your need to walk as you feel called. There is an abiding catholic principal that the informed conscience is an absolute guide. I am surprised that as strong catholics their grandchild was not baptised as an infant. If you were TEC will not rebaptise but receive. That would work the other wsy as well.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So, I'm on my faith journey to find where I belong and that's all well and good but... I'm a bit anxious about it all. My grandparents (who I live with) allow me to attend whatever churches that I want but... as for actually joining one, I'm not sure if they would actually let me do that. They are hardcore Catholics and last time I brought up converting to another religion that wasn't Catholicism, they got pretty upset at me. Well now that I'm looking at Christianity, I'm sure things will be better... but I still don't think Catholicism is right for me. It would be nice if I could be Catholic, but I disagree with too much in order to actually be Catholic so that's probably not an option for me. I want to be Episcopalian, and I'm not sure that my grandparents will be okay with me getting baptized under them.

They'll try to talk me out of it so that I can start attending RCIA classes, which would make me uncomfortable because that's not the road that I want to go down. And if I try to say no, they'll press me and try to get me to tell them the reasons why I don't want to be Catholic. I don't want to tell them because then it will start an argument and they'll try arguing me into changing my mind. They'll likely win their arguments too because they're trained apologists, making me feel like a fool, hurting my feelings immensely, and not changing my mind on anything one bit. And that might push me away from Christianity again. So, sadly, I feel like maybe I'll have to keep quiet about my possibly growing faith in Christ until... well, I'm not sure when.

I can understand your struggle in coming to terms with the Christian faith, but if you do, and I hope you do, I don't see any reason why you can't choose from some of the other so-called 'denominations.' I don't, specifically. Instead, as a philosophical Christian, I take a more general approach to the Trinitarian faith: so, this means that it's essentially "ok" for a person, such as yourself, to choose from an assortment of Trinitarian options. You could be Roman Catholic if you wanted to. OR, you could opt for Anglicanism/Episcopalianism, or Eastern Orthodoxy, or even one of a dozen Protestant denominations. All of these are Trinitarian at their central core, believing that Jesus is the Messiah and the Son of God. It's your choice as long as you do it in accordance to where you perceive God is leading you.

So, be encouraged. I know that family members will have their preferences. I have my preferences, BUT I fully realize other people have certain feelings and needs that various Christian denominations can help with in varying ways and with varying kinds and styles of ministries. Don't let your grandparents be the final arbiters of what you think God is leading you to do. You have to live your own life.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You're an adult. You can be a member of any denomination you want. Or no denomination, some Christians aren't members of any denomination. In fact I find it unsettling that your grandparents get upset over your religious choices. What you choose to believe or not believe should not be their business.

As I said in my previous post, family comes before church, but Jesus comes before family. I guess it's because I've been around for a few years that I have learned that family relationships are very important, and that family support is better when you get into difficulties, where church members may not give you the support you need. I lost my first marriage because I allowed a church to drive a wedge between my wife and me. I made the mistake of being more loyal to the church than to my wife. I decided that I would never allow that to happen again, and if anyone in my church criticised my wife for not attending church with me (which they wouldn't anyway), I would rise to my full height and punch them in the kneecap! The fellow's grandparents won't be around forever, and it is important to show the love of Christ to them even if it means sticking with the Catholic church while they are still alive.

My grandparents thought I had joined the Moonies when I became a Christian, and I went many years not having contact with them, mainly because I was living in a city far away from them. When I did return to my home town for a visit, I decided to join them in their Friday night drinks at a local bar. It was a meaningful experience, even though I don't usually drink alcohol. I went home totally bloated because they drank a lot more that I did; but a couple of years later, my grandfather died, and I was so glad that I had that time with them, doing what they did instead of me taking some sort of high moral ground with them and their consumption of beer. Not long after that my grandmother developed dementia. That showed me that time spent with family and grandparents is valuable and precious, and one needs to be unselfish about that because they will be gone before you know it. They would respect your Christian faith much more if you have more love and respect for them and put them before your own religious aspirations. Jesus is not the religion, He is a Person and He expects us to love our family and show that a Christian believer can make personal sacrifices so that their relationship with you is enhanced. May that example may win them to Christ!

 

[HoneyBee]

I think you need to have the discussion. You need to respect their view and ensure that you are clear that it is about what is right for you. In their turn they need to respect your need to walk as you feel called. There is an abiding catholic principal that the informed conscience is an absolute guide. I am surprised that as strong catholics their grandchild was not baptised as an infant. If you were TEC will not rebaptise but receive. That would work the other wsy as well.

I think you're probably right about my having the conversation with them. Honesty is the best policy, after all, plus I shouldn't have to sneak around being Christian when I could very possibly only be a conversation away from living my life outwardly as a proud Christian.

Also, the reason I wasn't baptized as a baby was because I was raised muslim by my parents. That was before my family split up and bad things went down, ultimately causing me to leave Islam.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So, I'm on my faith journey to find where I belong and that's all well and good but... I'm a bit anxious about it all. My grandparents (who I live with) allow me to attend whatever churches that I want but... as for actually joining one, I'm not sure if they would actually let me do that. They are hardcore Catholics and last time I brought up converting to another religion that wasn't Catholicism, they got pretty upset at me. Well now that I'm looking at Christianity, I'm sure things will be better... but I still don't think Catholicism is right for me. It would be nice if I could be Catholic, but I disagree with too much in order to actually be Catholic so that's probably not an option for me. I want to be Episcopalian, and I'm not sure that my grandparents will be okay with me getting baptized under them.

They'll try to talk me out of it so that I can start attending RCIA classes, which would make me uncomfortable because that's not the road that I want to go down. And if I try to say no, they'll press me and try to get me to tell them the reasons why I don't want to be Catholic. I don't want to tell them because then it will start an argument and they'll try arguing me into changing my mind. They'll likely win their arguments too because they're trained apologists, making me feel like a fool, hurting my feelings immensely, and not changing my mind on anything one bit. And that might push me away from Christianity again. So, sadly, I feel like maybe I'll have to keep quiet about my possibly growing faith in Christ until... well, I'm not sure when.

Oscarr makes a good point above. So I want to clarify that when I say "don't let your grandparents be the final arbiters of your faith," I don't mean that you should be in defiance of them. It just may mean that you'll have to work out with them what some of the 'common' beliefs are between their Roman Catholic view and the view of whichever Church that you may decide upon.

I just want to be more clear on that.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Bluerose31]

So, I'm on my faith journey to find where I belong and that's all well and good but... I'm a bit anxious about it all. My grandparents (who I live with) allow me to attend whatever churches that I want but... as for actually joining one, I'm not sure if they would actually let me do that. They are hardcore Catholics and last time I brought up converting to another religion that wasn't Catholicism, they got pretty upset at me. Well now that I'm looking at Christianity, I'm sure things will be better... but I still don't think Catholicism is right for me. It would be nice if I could be Catholic, but I disagree with too much in order to actually be Catholic so that's probably not an option for me. I want to be Episcopalian, and I'm not sure that my grandparents will be okay with me getting baptized under them.

They'll try to talk me out of it so that I can start attending RCIA classes, which would make me uncomfortable because that's not the road that I want to go down. And if I try to say no, they'll press me and try to get me to tell them the reasons why I don't want to be Catholic. I don't want to tell them because then it will start an argument and they'll try arguing me into changing my mind. They'll likely win their arguments too because they're trained apologists, making me feel like a fool, hurting my feelings immensely, and not changing my mind on anything one bit. And that might push me away from Christianity again. So, sadly, I feel like maybe I'll have to keep quiet about my possibly growing faith in Christ until... well, I'm not sure when.

Hello That is okay if you have to keep quiet about your growing faith in Christ until it is safe. It sounds like your family does not yet understand your growing love for Christ. I will pray that you are protected by Christ and that he tells you the right time when you can share it with your family. God bless you

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

My wife was educated Catholic, and I did a paper in Catholic theology for my MDiv. Although there are a few doctrines which are different to the Episcopalian church, the liturgy is basically the same. It is quite possible to be genuinely Christian, and that as long as you have a relationship with Christ that is separate from any church, because He is not the Church. The Church is there for Christians to fellowship and be strengthened in their faith in Christ. It is like the scaffolding to enable the construction or maintenance of a building. It is not the building. The true body of Christ are the people who have turned to Christ in their hearts. So, whether you continue with the Catholic Church or decide on another, is inconsequential in a way, because if you are a genuine Christian in your heart, you can fellowship anywhere. If the conflict over churches negatively affects your relationship with your grandparents, then you have to determine what is most important. My priority list is: Jesus first, family next, employment after that, and church last. Jesus revealed Himself to me in the middle of a golf course at 11pm under a starry sky, away from any church, and that was to show me that I don't have to go through a church to know and walk with Him, but the support of other believers is important for our well-being, so belonging to a church has its place in our Christian lives.

I have not set foot in a brick and mortar church for over 50 years.Most of them are full of bad teaching.I see myself simply as a “ Jesus- man”, a free man in Christ.There are so many great places you could visit on the net you could learn much from—— enough to effectively silence the voices of ignorance you encounter.

 

[Serving Zion]

So, I'm on my faith journey to find where I belong and that's all well and good but... I'm a bit anxious about it all. My grandparents (who I live with) allow me to attend whatever churches that I want but... as for actually joining one, I'm not sure if they would actually let me do that. They are hardcore Catholics and last time I brought up converting to another religion that wasn't Catholicism, they got pretty upset at me. Well now that I'm looking at Christianity, I'm sure things will be better... but I still don't think Catholicism is right for me. It would be nice if I could be Catholic, but I disagree with too much in order to actually be Catholic so that's probably not an option for me. I want to be Episcopalian, and I'm not sure that my grandparents will be okay with me getting baptized under them.

They'll try to talk me out of it so that I can start attending RCIA classes, which would make me uncomfortable because that's not the road that I want to go down. And if I try to say no, they'll press me and try to get me to tell them the reasons why I don't want to be Catholic. I don't want to tell them because then it will start an argument and they'll try arguing me into changing my mind. They'll likely win their arguments too because they're trained apologists, making me feel like a fool, hurting my feelings immensely, and not changing my mind on anything one bit. And that might push me away from Christianity again. So, sadly, I feel like maybe I'll have to keep quiet about my possibly growing faith in Christ until... well, I'm not sure when.

Its great to see your progress! I have just two questions about this:

Why do you feel you need to "join" a church? There is no perfect church and every church has something to be gained from another.. So it seems that you would be imposing the same limit to your faith. This is only something I have never understood.

The other thing is why do your grandparents have power over you? Are you living in their home? It is not good to be unequally yoked with unbelievers and to be friends with the world is enmity with God. If they dominate and war over your beliefs then it is clear they are not following The Holy Spirit, who gives us grace and love (James 3:13-18).

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have not set foot in a brick and mortar church for over 50 years.Most of them are full of bad teaching.I see myself simply as a “ Jesus- man”, a free man in Christ.There are so many great places you could visit on the net you could learn much from—— enough to effectively silence the voices of ignorance you encounter.

You have got to pick the meat from the bones in any church you go to. I resolved the issue by compiling my own library of books written by authors I trust as giving me and maintaining sound doctrine. I don't depend on my church or its leaders to maintain my Christian life (Actually I am the senior elder and on the preaching team, so the possibilities of getting good teaching other than my own are minimal ).

I changed my attitude to church a long while ago. Instead of getting what I could out of it as the reason why I go there, I put a greater priority on how I could use my gifts and skills to put something into it - to contribute to the lift of the church. So when I joined my Presbyterian church in 1996, I volunteered for the choir and Sunday school. That meant that I could not be in church for the sermon, because I was teaching Sunday school. I did that for around three years. Then I wrote and directed plays for the youth group. Then I volunteered to be on our Board of Managers, after that became the church treasurer. After about 10 years, I was invited to become and elder of the church, and three years ago when the Session Clerk (senior elder) stood down, I was elected to the role. Now, I am the treasurer, member of the Board of Managers, senior elder, and every four weeks I am either the worship leader or preacher. I give out of my time, energy, abilities, and gifts 95% of my time at church and maybe have around 5% input from the other preachers. I enjoy being part of a church "family" and am surrounded by four good and godly men who support and correct me when I need it. Those are the blessings that I receive by being bonded into a local church. It is great, because it is just five minutes walk from my home.

So it all depends on why a person goes to a church. If it is to be a leech, taking all one can get out of it without putting anything into it, then I can understand that people move from one church to another when the "goodies" run out and the teaching no longer tickles his ears. But if it is to be used to contribute to the fellowship for the good of the other folk, then the bonding into a fellowship is much more secure.

 

[chevyontheriver]

So, I'm on my faith journey to find where I belong and that's all well and good but... I'm a bit anxious about it all. My grandparents (who I live with) allow me to attend whatever churches that I want but... as for actually joining one, I'm not sure if they would actually let me do that. They are hardcore Catholics and last time I brought up converting to another religion that wasn't Catholicism, they got pretty upset at me. Well now that I'm looking at Christianity, I'm sure things will be better... but I still don't think Catholicism is right for me. It would be nice if I could be Catholic, but I disagree with too much in order to actually be Catholic so that's probably not an option for me. I want to be Episcopalian, and I'm not sure that my grandparents will be okay with me getting baptized under them.

They'll try to talk me out of it so that I can start attending RCIA classes, which would make me uncomfortable because that's not the road that I want to go down. And if I try to say no, they'll press me and try to get me to tell them the reasons why I don't want to be Catholic. I don't want to tell them because then it will start an argument and they'll try arguing me into changing my mind. They'll likely win their arguments too because they're trained apologists, making me feel like a fool, hurting my feelings immensely, and not changing my mind on anything one bit. And that might push me away from Christianity again. So, sadly, I feel like maybe I'll have to keep quiet about my possibly growing faith in Christ until... well, I'm not sure when.

If you do go to the RCIA classes you could learn a good deal and use what you learn as the basis for a more informed choice. There is plenty of time for discernment built into RCIA, so there is no requirement to decide permanently at the beginning. By all means become a Christian, follow Jesus, and get baptized. Maybe as a Catholic. Give it a fair shot.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

You have got to pick the meat from the bones in any church you go to. I resolved the issue by compiling my own library of books written by authors I trust as giving me and maintaining sound doctrine. I don't depend on my church or its leaders to maintain my Christian life (Actually I am the senior elder and on the preaching team, so the possibilities of getting good teaching other than my own are minimal ).

I changed my attitude to church a long while ago. Instead of getting what I could out of it as the reason why I go there, I put a greater priority on how I could use my gifts and skills to put something into it - to contribute to the lift of the church. So when I joined my Presbyterian church in 1996, I volunteered for the choir and Sunday school. That meant that I could not be in church for the sermon, because I was teaching Sunday school. I did that for around three years. Then I wrote and directed plays for the youth group. Then I volunteered to be on our Board of Managers, after that became the church treasurer. After about 10 years, I was invited to become and elder of the church, and three years ago when the Session Clerk (senior elder) stood down, I was elected to the role. Now, I am the treasurer, member of the Board of Managers, senior elder, and every four weeks I am either the worship leader or preacher. I give out of my time, energy, abilities, and gifts 95% of my time at church and maybe have around 5% input from the other preachers. I enjoy being part of a church "family" and am surrounded by four good and godly men who support and correct me when I need it. Those are the blessings that I receive by being bonded into a local church. It is great, because it is just five minutes walk from my home.

So it all depends on why a person goes to a church. If it is to be a leech, taking all one can get out of it without putting anything into it, then I can understand that people move from one church to another when the "goodies" run out and the teaching no longer tickles his ears. But if it is to be used to contribute to the fellowship for the good of the other folk, then the bonding into a fellowship is much more secure.

Sounds like you are having lots of fun and are staying busy in your church.However if you have to rely on reading books other than the Bible to get “ sound” doctrine, I would suggest cutting back on the plays and music and finding the right doctrine and preach it.Think of the rest of the congregation that is not doing the personal research that you have wisely chosen to do.If the people in the church , especially the young are not getting sound doctrine they need to go someplace else and maybe use the present church for a gym or singing hall or something.its sure not a church.even if it is a short walk.

 

[redleghunter]

I think you're probably right about my having the conversation with them. Honesty is the best policy, after all, plus I shouldn't have to sneak around being Christian when I could very possibly only be a conversation away from living my life outwardly as a proud Christian.

Also, the reason I wasn't baptized as a baby was because I was raised muslim by my parents. That was before my family split up and bad things went down, ultimately causing me to leave Islam.

Mind me asking if you are reading any books (other than the Bible of course) in your search of Christianity?

I would recommend CS Lewis "Mere Christianity" as one. And another which is free online (and attached below free pdf file) called "Basic Christianity" by John Stott.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Mind me asking if you are reading any books (other than the Bible of course) in your search of Christianity?

I would recommend CS Lewis "Mere Christianity" as one. And another which is free online (and attached below free pdf file) called "Basic Christianity" by John Stott.

Both of those are good books, which I have benefited from. I would add 'To Know Christ Jesus' by Frank Sheed, and other books by Lewis and by Sheed. Screwtape Letters by Lewis is delightful, and a great audiobook version of it is narrated by John Cleese, Do start with 'Mere Christianity' by Lewis, and go from there. Oh, Doh, before I forget, and get your hands on some G. K. Chesterton.

 

[aiki]

What you choose to believe or not believe should not be their business.

And what if she believed she could jump off of high buildings and fly? Or was impervious to injury? Or was a chicken? Should her grandparents just mind their own business and let her hold such false and potentially destructive beliefs?

 

[ToBeLoved]

So, I'm on my faith journey to find where I belong and that's all well and good but... I'm a bit anxious about it all. My grandparents (who I live with) allow me to attend whatever churches that I want but... as for actually joining one, I'm not sure if they would actually let me do that. They are hardcore Catholics and last time I brought up converting to another religion that wasn't Catholicism, they got pretty upset at me. Well now that I'm looking at Christianity, I'm sure things will be better... but I still don't think Catholicism is right for me. It would be nice if I could be Catholic, but I disagree with too much in order to actually be Catholic so that's probably not an option for me. I want to be Episcopalian, and I'm not sure that my grandparents will be okay with me getting baptized under them.

They'll try to talk me out of it so that I can start attending RCIA classes, which would make me uncomfortable because that's not the road that I want to go down. And if I try to say no, they'll press me and try to get me to tell them the reasons why I don't want to be Catholic. I don't want to tell them because then it will start an argument and they'll try arguing me into changing my mind. They'll likely win their arguments too because they're trained apologists, making me feel like a fool, hurting my feelings immensely, and not changing my mind on anything one bit. And that might push me away from Christianity again. So, sadly, I feel like maybe I'll have to keep quiet about my possibly growing faith in Christ until... well, I'm not sure when.

This might really be an opportunity for you to build the personal aspects of your relationship with God, that really don't have a whole lot to do with a church, per se. Examples, might be your prayer life, or just including God in your day to day life, or looking at the world a little differently (ie. Jesus says that what you do for the least of these (ie. downtrodden, sick, helpless) you do for Him. You could try to see the world a little differently and random acts of kindness towards others or doing loving things.

I would concentrate on these things and not worry about a church or the correct church right now, but go with the flow since you are living with them. Try to change stuff on the inside, that will reflect Jesus in you. No matter what church you attend in the future, you will take this with you.

 

[Uber Genius]

So, I'm on my faith journey to find where I belong and that's all well and good but... I'm a bit anxious about it all. My grandparents (who I live with) allow me to attend whatever churches that I want but... as for actually joining one, I'm not sure if they would actually let me do that. They are hardcore Catholics and last time I brought up converting to another religion that wasn't Catholicism, they got pretty upset at me. Well now that I'm looking at Christianity, I'm sure things will be better... but I still don't think Catholicism is right for me. It would be nice if I could be Catholic, but I disagree with too much in order to actually be Catholic so that's probably not an option for me. I want to be Episcopalian, and I'm not sure that my grandparents will be okay with me getting baptized under them.

They'll try to talk me out of it so that I can start attending RCIA classes, which would make me uncomfortable because that's not the road that I want to go down. And if I try to say no, they'll press me and try to get me to tell them the reasons why I don't want to be Catholic. I don't want to tell them because then it will start an argument and they'll try arguing me into changing my mind. They'll likely win their arguments too because they're trained apologists, making me feel like a fool, hurting my feelings immensely, and not changing my mind on anything one bit. And that might push me away from Christianity again. So, sadly, I feel like maybe I'll have to keep quiet about my possibly growing faith in Christ until... well, I'm not sure when.

I always advise judging truth claims on their own merits without regard o the consequences of those beliefs.

Episcopalian is Catholic-lite in its liturgy. However it is not sacramental but ordinal. If you are new to Christianity or struggle to understand how to differentiate Christian central claims then why not focus on the validating or the core truth claims? The ones that represent mere Christianity that Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and Protestants have in common? From there you might look at the distinctive claims. It seems that just picking a church requires more than just liking the experience although it does include that, but also gaining something that changes you profoundly.