The Sabbath was given to ManKind

[CherubRam]

I am well aware of that information. I was simply pointing out that the passages quoted could not be used in the manner you were doing so when taken in context. I am not arguing that the original Christians did not follow Jewish custom. I would argue that, at this time, Gentiles are not bound to keep the Sabbath in the same way that Jews are. I would also remind that this forum's SOP allows us the flexibility to keep the Law as we believe Yeshua desires us to, and how to keep the Sabbath is up to the MJ believer.

Gentiles are required to keep the Seventh Day Sabbath, they are not required to keep other Sabbath Days, circumcision, or the Festivals.
Man, as in Mankind.
Deuteronomy 8:3
He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Matthew 4:4
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Luke 4:4
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone.’”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[visionary]

To be fair Yeshua was talking to the Jews so there would have not been a reason to specify in this passage.

*note, I am not arguing that one should not participate in sabbath observance. I am simply pointing a matter in the scripture quoted.

Yeshua is more broad minded, as his mind is for all eternity, and everything He says holds that in context. He knew there would be such a discussion today about what He said and what He meant. He made sure He spoke plainly in this case. He could have quoted scripture, like the ones being used to support Israel only, but He didn't.

 

[Dave-W]

God's will is that we keep His commands.

The ones He gave to us, that is.

 

[Dave-W]

Since Gentiles were grafted into the natural olive tree of Israel and are now part of the commonwealth of Israel, then they are subject to the same laws as Israel.

Does an orange branch grafted into a lemon tree have to bear lemons, or does it keep on bearing oranges?

Oranges. Same tree, different fruit.

 

[Dave-W]

Gentiles are required to keep the Seventh Day Sabbath, they are not required to keep other Sabbath Days, circumcision, or the Festivals.

That makes absolutely no sense per Acts 15. If you are going to keep the first feast day of Leviticus 23 you should keep all of them.

And if you receive ritual circumcision you are obligated to the WHOLE LAW.

 

[CherubRam]

That makes absolutely no sense per Acts 15. If you are going to keep the first feast day of Leviticus 23 you should keep all of them.

And if you receive ritual circumcision you are obligated to the WHOLE LAW.

God said He would do away with the festivals, and He did. The Old Covenant of Circumcision has been done away with.

 

[gadar perets]

Does an orange branch grafted into a lemon tree have to bear lemons, or does it keep on bearing oranges?

Oranges. Same tree, different fruit.

Please explain that in reference to the rest of my post. Are you saying Jewish and Gentile believers who are all part of the Body of Messiah have different laws to obey and that the Torah written in the hearts and minds of Gentile believers is not the same Torah as written in Jewish believers? Throughout the OT, any Gentile that joined himself to Israel had to obey the same laws as Israel. Has that changed?

A few more questions; If the Sabbath was only given to the Jews, then what about all the other commandments? Aren't they only for Jews as well? Are Gentiles now free to have sex with animals and close relatives? Can they move their neighbor's boundary markers if they so choose? After all, there is nothing prior to Sinai that forbids such actions.

 

[gadar perets]

God said He would do away with the festivals, and He did. The Old Covenant of Circumcision has been done away with.

The Old Covenant included all Ten Commandments as well. The fact is, none of the Ten are done away with and neither are the Feasts (especially the unfulfilled ones).

 

[tampasteve]

MOD HAT ON

As I am in this thread I just want to remind all of us of the forum SOP. Some posts are going close to the line, and I would hate for a respectful conversation to be shut down. I think good talk has happened so far.

• Yeshua instructed us to ‘Follow Me’, therefore we leave it to each individual to practice Torah (halacha) in a way that he/she believes Yeshua did.
• No replacement theology. No posts teaching or debating that the Church/Christians have replaced Israel or the Jewish people.
  
• No anti-Torah theology. i.e. No posts accusing or debating that Messianic Jews or Gentiles are under the law, re-erecting the wall of partition, Torah has been made invalid for today, or Messianic Jews or Gentiles should not keep the commandments in Torah that apply to them. It's not permitted to tell members to keep the Universal (Noachide) laws or not to keep Shabbat

MOD HAT OFF

 

[Dave-W]

God said He would do away with the festivals, and He did. The Old Covenant of Circumcision has been done away with.

That is a Christian misunderstanding of those passages.

 

[Dave-W]

Please explain that in reference to the rest of my post. Are you saying Jewish and Gentile believers who are all part of the Body of Messiah have different laws to obey and that the Torah written in the hearts and minds of Gentile believers is not the same Torah as written in Jewish believers? Throughout the OT, any Gentile that joined himself to Israel had to obey the same laws as Israel. Has that changed?

A few more questions; If the Sabbath was only given to the Jews, then what about all the other commandments? Aren't they only for Jews as well? Are Gentiles now free to have sex with animals and close relatives? Can they move their neighbors boundary markers if they so choose? After all, there is nothing prior to Sinai that forbids such actions.

Yes, God has differing requirements depending on a number of factors. Did those from the tribe of Judah have any of the requirements of the priesthood that the Levites did? Of course not.

Was it the same covenant? Yes.

So why would it be surprising that God has different functions and responsibilities for Jews and Gentiles under the New Covenant?

Jewish New Covenant believers have a series of special functions and requirements not required of gentile believers. That is what Acts 15 was all about. That the Acts 15 declaration was NOT inclusive of Jewish believers was put forth in Acts 21.

One big difference between the Mosaic and New Covenants in what I wrote: If someone from Judah tried to perform a sacrifice or do the temple service, he would be violating the Law and killed. But under the New Covenant, Gentile believers are free to keep the Sabbath and the Feast days IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO. I believe there is a great blessing if one chooses to do that. BUT IT IS NOT REQUIRED.

 

[gadar perets]

Yes, God has differing requirements depending on a number of factors. Did those from the tribe of Judah have any of the requirements of the priesthood that the Levites did? Of course not.

Was it the same covenant? Yes.

So why would it be surprising that God has different functions and responsibilities for Jews and Gentiles under the New Covenant?

Jewish New Covenant believers have a series of special functions and requirements not required of gentile believers. That is what Acts 15 was all about. That the Acts 15 declaration was NOT inclusive of Jewish believers was put forth in Acts 21.

One big difference between the Mosaic and New Covenants in what I wrote: If someone from Judah tried to perform a sacrifice or do the temple service, he would be violating the Law and killed. But under the New Covenant, Gentile believers are free to keep the Sabbath and the Feast days IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO. I believe there is a great blessing if one chooses to do that. BUT IT IS NOT REQUIRED.

Yes, The Levites had different functions, but they kept the same Ten Commandments that Judah kept. YHWH allowed them to do certain temple work on Shabbat, but they certainly could not do work outside of that.

Acts 15 was the beginning of teaching Gentiles about Torah. They would eventually learn the rest as they heard Moses read each Sabbath Day.

 

[CherubRam]

The Old Covenant included all Ten Commandments as well. The fact is, none of the Ten are done away with and neither are the Feasts (especially the unfulfilled ones).

The Old Covenant needed to be revoked in order to have the New Covenant.
See Zechariah 11:11

The unfulfilled feast will be attended by the survivors.

 

[CherubRam]

That is a Christian misunderstanding of those passages.

See Zechariah 11

 

[CherubRam]

Yes, God has differing requirements depending on a number of factors. Did those from the tribe of Judah have any of the requirements of the priesthood that the Levites did? Of course not.

Was it the same covenant? Yes.

So why would it be surprising that God has different functions and responsibilities for Jews and Gentiles under the New Covenant?

Jewish New Covenant believers have a series of special functions and requirements not required of gentile believers. That is what Acts 15 was all about. That the Acts 15 declaration was NOT inclusive of Jewish believers was put forth in Acts 21.

One big difference between the Mosaic and New Covenants in what I wrote: If someone from Judah tried to perform a sacrifice or do the temple service, he would be violating the Law and killed. But under the New Covenant, Gentile believers are free to keep the Sabbath and the Feast days IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO. I believe there is a great blessing if one chooses to do that. BUT IT IS NOT REQUIRED.

Let me ask you a question Dave? When is God going to do away with the festivals like He said?

 

[gadar perets]

The Old Covenant needed to be revoked in order to have the New Covenant.
See Zechariah 11:11

Of course it was, but you said circumcision was abolished because it was part of the OC. Using that logic, the Sabbath would be abolished as well.

 

[Dave-W]

Let me ask you a question Dave? When is God going to do away with the festivals like He said?

Not until well after the final battle:

Zechariah 14:16
And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:18
If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles

So they remain thru this present age and well into the age to come.

If you are Jewish you will be required to keep them. If not Jewish, you are blessed by observing them.

 

[CherubRam]

Not until well after the final battle:

Zechariah 14:16
And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:18
If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles

So they remain thru this present age and well into the age to come.

If you are Jewish you will be required to keep them. If not Jewish, you are blessed by observing them.

Zec 14 is for the survivors because it pertains to them. There is nothing in the bible about God reestablishing the Festivals.


Festivals and Sacrifices

Jeremiah 31:31,32.
“The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD..

Daniel 9:27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

Zechariah 11:10
Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.

Malachi 3:1
“I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty.

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Festivals rejected by Yahwah.

Psalm 40:6
Sacrifice and offering you did not desire— but a body you have prepared for me — burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

Psalm 51:16
You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

Proverbs 21:3
To do what is right and just is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.

Isaiah 1:11
“The multitude of your sacrifices— what are they to me?” says the LORD. “I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.

Isaiah 1:14
Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals I hate with all my being. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them.

Zephaniah 3:18
“I will remove from you all who mourn over the loss of your appointed festivals, which is a burden and reproach for you.

Lamentations 2:6
He has laid waste his dwelling like a garden; he has destroyed his place of meeting. The LORD has made Zion forget her appointed festivals and her Sabbaths; in his fierce anger he has spurned both king and priest.

Hosea 2:11
I will stop all her celebrations: her yearly festivals, her New Moons, her Sabbath days—all her appointed festivals.

Amos 5:21
“I hate, I despise your religious festivals; your assemblies are a stench to me.


Since the days of Adam; Festivals, Sacrifices, and Offerings, has been a tradition of mankind. God only instructed Moses on how the people were to perform those things.



Festivals, Sacrifices, and Offerings


Jeremiah 7
21 This is what the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel, says: “Add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices, and eat the meat yourselves, 22 for when I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak with them or command them concerning burnt offering and sacrifice.
26 However, they wouldn’t listen to Me or pay attention, but became obstinate; they did more evil than their ancestors.


The Old Covenant has been revoked; we now live under the New Covenant.

Feast Festivals


Lamentations 2:6

He has laid waste his dwelling like a garden; he has destroyed his place of meeting. The Lord has made Zion forget her appointed festivals and her Sabbaths; in his fierce anger he has spurned both king and priest.



After CE

Zephaniah 3:18 KJ

I will gather them that are sorrowful for the solemn assembly, who are of thee, to whom the reproach of it was a burden.


Before CE

Zephaniah 3:18 NIV

“I will remove from you all who mourn over the loss of your appointed festivals, which is a burden and reproach for you.



Isaiah 66:3

But whoever sacrifices a bull is like one who kills a person, and whoever offers a lamb is like one who breaks a dog’s neck; whoever makes a grain offering is like one who presents pig’s blood, and whoever burns memorial incense is like one who worships an idol. They have chosen their own ways, and they delight in their abominations;

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[CherubRam]

Of course it was, but you said circumcision was abolished because it was part of the OC. Using that logic, the Sabbath would be abolished as well.

The Covenant of Circumcision is separate from the Ten Commandments.

 

[gadar perets]

The Covenant of Circumcision is separate from the Ten Commandments.

They are all OC commandments as are the two greatest. It is obvious that OC commandments are carried over into the NC except for the temple commands. They are no longer only on stone or papyrus, but in our hearts and minds. Accept that fact and begin obeying them.