• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

THE SABBATH IS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT - WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS IT IS ABOLISHED?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Jun 25, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,134
    Uruguay
    Christian
    Single
    So yes he and Ellen White is basically saying that people are going to hell because of that.
    But i didn't know about that forum rule and it was not my intention to bait him.

    Wow i like Ellen White even less now...
    So if a person doesn't know sexual sin is a sin and commits it he will be saved because he was ignorant? doesn't sin means sin even if you don't know?.
    That doesn't mean God will not judge people that have sinned without law because they didn't know about what was sin? i don't know...

    And the bible shouldn't be more clear if this was an important aspect regarding salvation?, but Paul still says let no one judge you about sabbaths.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  2. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

    +4,527
    Christian
    Married
    So is this measurement of the new moon taken in Israel, or do you apply it locally?
     
  3. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

    +4,527
    Christian
    Married
    Yes, well, she had comments too about when it would become a test over the Sabbath.
     
  4. Dkh587

    Dkh587 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,738
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    I forget where I read that they would not eat clean animals that touched or were around unclean animals. I’ll dig around and see if I can find it.

    they seem to be closely related. But to profane something doesn’t mean to make it unclean, it would just be to make something common. The problem with stuff being common is when you take something holy, and profane it, and make it common. Animals can’t be common because they aren’t holy in the first place. I do get what you’re saying.


    Because Peter was rejecting the clean animals altogether. While it was a vision, there are definitely spiritual truths on multiple levels.

    When God told Peter to rise, kill and eat, this was obviously referring to the clean animals. Peter rejects everything, but incorrectly so. So Peter responds and says he hasn’t eaten anything common or unclean.
    Obviously Peter misunderstood God, so in his misunderstanding, he was actually calling the clean animals common AND unclean, because God wasn’t talking about eating the unclean animals in the first place.

    Let me clarify a little more. The clean animals represent God’s people whom he has cleansed. This consists of Israelites & Gentiles whom have crossed over and joined God & his people

    The unclean animals represent Gentiles who are not a part of God’s people.


    give me a little time. I’ll have to look into Romans 14:20 and 14:21.

    Do keep in mind, though, that Romans 14:14 should read “common” and not “unclean”, since the Greek word for common is used

    EDITED:

    Maybe in Romans 14:20, When Paul said all things are pure, he’s speaking of food in the context of what food is according to the law.

    Remember, to Jesus and the Apostles and Israelites, food to them is what God considers food, not us in America. Very different definitions.

    I think that’s how Paul is speaking. Here is how the NLT translates 14:20. I’m gonna add some words for clarity sake in parenthesis.

    Romans 14:20 NLT
    Don’t tear apart the work of God over what you eat. Remember, all foods(foods according to the law) are acceptable, but it is wrong to eat something if it makes another person stumble.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  5. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

    +4,527
    Christian
    Married
    Well in the case of the religious leaders she references, in quoting Christ, they rejected the Messiah when He fulfilled all the requirements of being the Messiah.


    On the other hand, some of the things that can be known about God are manifest by what He made (Romans 1), and the conscience also bears witness (Romans 2). So per Romans all are without excuse in regards to sin in general.
     
  6. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

    +4,527
    Christian
    Married
    Thanks, that would be helpful. I know it can be hard to track such things down. We read a lot of details, and at the time we don't know which will be necessary to recall the source!

    I can somewhat see that. For instance Paul talks about the children being unclean except the believing spouse sanctifies them.

    On the other hand, why would he say God has said not to call any person common or unclean? If there are then unclean people too, shouldn't he call them unclean?



    No he did not use unclean there. But he did use CLEAN there, the same as used in Lev. 11.

    My take is that it likely refers to food sacrificed to idols given the context of eating only vegetables, vs. meat as well, but the use of the word clean there does suggest the possibility of more since he says that all things are clean.
     
  7. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,134
    Uruguay
    Christian
    Single
    I received the Holy Spirit in a pentecostal church not in an SDA one, so supposedly God would not support my church that is so out of touch 'holding hands with satan sunday' with his spiritual blessings.
     
  8. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    +5,121
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Should we go back to stoning everyone who isn’t worshiping on Saturday?
     
  9. Dkh587

    Dkh587 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,738
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    I’m not sure. The words from God we’re “do not call what God has cleansed ‘common’ or ‘unclean’

    I would say his explanation was in context of the vision, rather than it being a general statement regarding all mankind. It would make more sense to me that when he said “call no man common or unclean”, it would be in relation to the Gentiles that were grafted in, rather than Gentiles who reject and hate God. I personally don’t think Gentiles who live a life against God and Christ are cleansed, unless they repent and turn to God/Christ.


    I added some stuff regarding Romans 14:20 to my last post after you had already quoted it, but I’ll repeat it again.

    I think one thing we have to keep in mind, is when Paul, Jesus and the Apostles refer to food, it’s in context of what food is according to the law, which is plants and clean animals. So when we look at it like that, all food is clean for sure.

    I think that’s how Paul is speaking. Here is how the NLT translates 14:20. I’m gonna add some words for clarity sake in parenthesis.

    Romans 14:20 NLT
    Don’t tear apart the work of God over what you eat. Remember, all foods(foods according to the law) are acceptable, but it is wrong to eat something if it makes another person stumble.


    The issue in Romans 14 is people quarreling over whether we should eat only vegetables, or if we should eat vegetables and [clean]meats. As well as the issue of things people consider common. Some people wouldn’t eat food they considered common, like Peter, even if it was a clean animal
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +4,749
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Good scripture you quote here. Let's look at it in a little more detail..

    1 JOHN 5:17 [17] ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN: and there is a sin not unto death.

    Q. WHAT IS "UNRIGHTEOUSNESS"?
    A. UNRIGHTEOUSNESS = INIQUITY = SIN

    ...............

    GREEK AND HEBREW

    "UNRIGHTEOUSNESS" [GREEK G93] ἀδικία; adikia; ad-ee-kee'-ah; From G94; legal injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act; moral wrongfulness (of charater, life or act): - iniquity [sin], unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.

    "UNRIGHTEOUSNESS" [HEBREW 5766] עול עול עולה עולה עלה; ‛evel ‛âvel ‛avlâh ‛ôlâh ‛ôlâh; eh'-vel, aw'-vel, av-law', o-law', o-law'; eh'-vel, aw'-vel, av-law', o-law', o-law; From H5765; moral evil: - iniquity, [sin] perverseness, unjust (-ly), unrighteousness (-ly), wicked (-ness).

    ..............

    CONCLUSION: UNRIGHTEOUSNESS = SIN

    ..............

    Q. WHAT IS SIN?

    JAMES 2:8-11 [8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: [9], But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

    James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW

    links to...........

    1 JOHN 3:4 [4], Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

    John is in agreement with James and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments)

    Links to...........

    ROMANS 7:7 [7]. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known SIN, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

    Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that SIN is breaking God's commandments and uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

    Links to............

    ROMANS 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

    Once again Paul is in agreement with John and James which all agree together that if we break any of God's LAW (10 commandments) we commit SIN because as James, John and Paul all agree together that SIN is breaking ANY of God's 10 commandments.

    ..............

    A. ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS = SIN and according to God's Word, SIN is KNOWINGLY breaking any of God's 10 Commandments. This includes the 4th Commandment Sabbath commandment which is one of the 10 Commandments

    ..............

    Q. What is the opposite of UNRIGHTEOUSSNESS [= SIN = Breaking God's Commandments]?
    A. The opposite of UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is RIGHTEOUSNESS

    Q. WHAT IS RIGHTOUESSNESS?

    PSLAMS 119:172 [172], My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    DEUTERONOMY 6:25 [25], And IT SHALL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, IF WE OBSERVE TO DO ALL THESE COMMANDMENTS BEFORE THE LORD OUR GOD, AS HE COMMANDED US.

    PROVERBS 10:16 [16], The labor of the RIGHTEOUS tends to life: the FRUIT OF THE WICKED TO SIN.

    EZEKIEL 33:18 When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall even die for it.

    ..............

    A. RIGHTEOUSNESS = Obedience to God's Commandments.

    ..............

    NONE of us are RIGHTEOUS without God or by keeping God's LAW because we have all sinned and are sinners [sinful nature flesh] in need of a Savior.

    ISAIAH 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

    ROMANS 3:9-20
    [9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: for we have before proved both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
    [10], As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    [11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
    [12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
    [13], Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
    [14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
    [15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
    [16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
    [17], And the way of peace have they not known:
    [18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.
    [19], Now we know that whatsoever things the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
    [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

    We need a change of heart in order to be obedient to God's LAWS. This is the NEW COVENNANT promise to LOVE (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:10-12)..

    continuing the need for a change of heart only God can give through faith...

    MATTHEW 9:12, [12], But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. [13], But go and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

    JOHN 3:3-9, [3], Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [4], Nicodemus said unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? [5], Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [6], That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [7], Marvel not that I said unto you, You must be born again.

    1 JOHN 3:9 [9], Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his nature remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    All of the above links into the NEW COVENANT promise of God writing his LAWS in our heart so that we might follow him and be OBEDIENT to his laws by faith.

    HEBREWS 8:10-12 [from Jeremiah 31:31-34]
    [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    CIRCUMCISION a shadow law pointing to a NEW HEART...

    God promises to save us from our sins and give us a new heart to walk with him and follow him.

    DEUTERONOMY 30 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

    JEREMIAH 4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

    DEUTERONOMY 10 [16] CIRCUMCISE therefore THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

    NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ…

    1 JOHN 5:4 [4], FOR WHOEVER IS BORN OF GOD OVERCOMES THE WORLD: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.

    RIGHTEOUSNESS and SALVATION from SIN is be FAITH in God's WORD. This is the same WORD that created all things. FAITH is the VICTORY over sin and righteousness to LOVE.

    LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE (Romans 13:8-10).

    God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have NO part in the NEW COVENANT promise.

    SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HERE CLICK ME.

    So back to the OP here...

    Where is the scriptures that say God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?

    Thanks for your thoughts Theo, hope this helps.


    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  11. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +4,749
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Hello Tall,

    Nice to see you and welcome to this thread.

    Not really, the point of making a distintion here is to separate the shadow laws in ordinances for remission of sin from the ETERNAL law of God that gives us a knowledge of what sin and rightouesness are (Romans 3:20) These are God's 10 Commandments which are the standard of good and evil in the OLD and NEW Covenant and the judgment to come.

    This is a comparison to the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the covanant that point to Jesus and God's plan of salvation. Both have a different role and purpose under the OLD COVENANT one is FOREVER the others are shadows fulfilled in Christ and point to his plan of salvation for mankind. Together both God's 10 Commandments and the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT made up the OLD COVENANT.

    Appreciate your thoughts and thanks for sharing,

    So back to the OP here...

    Where is the scriptures that say God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?

    Hope this helps.
     
  12. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +4,749
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Please do not answer for me as I am able to answer for myself which I have already with God's Word. If you do not mind this thread is for sharing the scriptures, not EGW. Do you have any scripture to share?

    May I also ask you if you believe and keep the God's 4th Commandment Sabbath?`

    And back to the OP here...

    Where is the scriptures that say God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +4,749
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Hi BNR32FAN,

    So nice to meet you here. Welcome to the thread.

    Great question. The 10 Commandments were spoken and written by God himself. Nothing was to be added to them and God commanded them to be separated from the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant. They are the foundation of the mercy seat where the presenece of God is. They are to be written on the heart of those who have faith in God's Word and are the very standard of the OLD and NEW COVENANT and the judgment to come and the KNOWLEDGE of what sin and rightoeusness are and the standard of good and evil.

    God's 10 Commandments are God's ETERNAL LAW while the MOSAIC laws for remission of sin are only shadow laws pointing to Christ and God's great plan of salvation for all mankind.

    SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HERE CLICK ME.

    Hope this helps.
     
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +4,749
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    If you are living in the OLD COVENANT and follow the civil laws of ISRAEL maybe, but no, we are in the NEW COVENANT now and not under the governance of the civil laws of the OLD Covenant.

    It is interesting though that this law for stoning was not just for God's 4th Commandment but anyone caught openly breaking nearlt any of God's 10 Commandments were also stoned.

    So back to the OP here...

    Where is the scriptures that say God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  15. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

    +4,527
    Christian
    Married
    But what about the other moral laws from the law of Moses. What about the laws Jesus references also in Matthew 5?

    Why do you make it only about the 10?


    You just dodged what was said. The Mosaic Book of the covenant had more than just laws pointing to sacrifice.

    What about those other laws, such as the ones Jesus mentioned in Mat. 5?

    The Sabbath is not abolished.

    I see no command to keep Sunday as a holy day.

    Your division of the 10 and the book of the law does not explain why you discarded the laws Jesus references in Mat. 5 beyond the two of the 10 commandments. The laws regarding divorce, oaths, etc. He references in the context of "you have heard".
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  16. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

    +4,527
    Christian
    Married
    I didn't answer for you. I said you could not answer if you did believe that, so he should not ask that.

    I did however point out the teaching of the Adventist church. I know you don't like it when I do that. But the poster seemed to want to know.
     
  17. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +4,749
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    The earlier discussion was making the distinction between God's ETERNAL LAWS (10 Commandments) spoken and written by God on stone which give us the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil and the shadow laws for remission of sin from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT which were a shadow of things to come.

    Matthew 5 is only a repeat of what has already been given in the OLD Testament and that is that SIN origniates in the heart. It is a NEW heart that the NEW COVENANT promises which is God's LAW written on the heart to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE his WORD. It is faith that gives us the victory to FOLLOW God's WORD.

    No I did not dodge anything. I have always discussed the MOSAIC laws for REMISSION OF SIN from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT. I have never referred to every part of the BOOK of the COVENANT and other laws written in them.

    Great one thing that we agree on. Thanks for sharing your belief which I also agee with :oldthumbsup:

    I never discarded answering anything. You have made claims to things I have not been talking about in earlier posts which have been clarified more then once now. Matthew 5 answered above see top of this post.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +4,749
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Really? Sounded like you did. As the earlier post was addressed to me and I already answered it.
    Not at all. I do not like it however, when you take quotes out of context and try and put an interpretation to them that they are not saying.

    This is a thread in relation to finding "SCRIPTURE" which is discussing where in God's WORD does it say God's 4th Commandment has been abolsihed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    Do you have any scripture to share?
     
  19. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

    +4,527
    Christian
    Married
    So what do you do with the rest of the laws?

    What do you do with the rest of the laws in the book of Moses besides the ones dealing with sacrifice?

    We know for instance what you do with the clean and unclean laws. What about the rest?


    The covenant was not just the ten and the laws for remission of sin. It was all the law. So what do you do with the rest?


    Glad we agree.


    But Jesus says He did not come to do away with the law and prophets. But you seem only concerned with the dietary laws and the ten. What about the rest of them?
     
  20. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

    +4,527
    Christian
    Married
    I was clarifying for the poster that you could not answer the question he was asking if you did believe that because it would violate the rules of the forum. And by asking he could violate them.

    He got the point and said he hadn't realized that.

    Well, the poster of course will just have to judge that. But I was posting what the Adventist church believes so he could know.


    I have been sharing Scripture in this thread and enjoying the study. But the poster seemed to get the answer he needed from the post I made, which discusses the Adventist view.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...