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The Sabbath Day: Saturday or Sunday?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by Heart2Soul, Jan 4, 2018.

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  1. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    The Bible defined sin as the transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4) and the Law says to keep the Sabbath, so it is therefore a sin to break it, and I love people too much to see them caught in sin without helping to restore them.

    If you look at Colossians 2:16 by itself, then it is ambiguous as to whether Paul was saying not to let anyone judge them for keeping God's holy day or for not keeping them, but if we look at the context of the views of the people judging them and well as keep in mind the broader theme that we must obey God rather than man, then it becomes clear:

    Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

    Paul would never have described those teaching people to obey the holy, righteous, and good Law of our God in accordance with Christ's example as taking people captive by philosophy and empty deceit according to human tradition and not according to Christ. He went into more details about what these elemental spirits of the world are later in the chapter:

    Colossians 2:20-23 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

    So the Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to God's commands, they were being judged by those teaching human traditions and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, and Paul was writing to encourage them not to let any man keep them from obeying God.

    Dispensationalism is fundamentally false because at its basic level it seeks to excuse the fact that we have changed by saying that God has change, why he is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Grace has always been an important attribute of God that he showed to people throughout the OT. For example, in Psalms 119:29, David asked God to show His grace to him by teaching him to obey His Law. In Genesis 6:8-9, it says that Noah found grace in the eyes of God and that he was a righteous man, and this was by no accident, but rather he was taught how to rightly live by grace and was righteous because he obeyed through faith.

    God's Law was given to instruct us how to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and how to refrain from doing what is ungodly and sinful, so Titus 2:11-14 is essentially saying that our salvation involves being trained by grace to obey God's Law. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience that faith requires. According to John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. According to Jude 1:4, the ungodly pervert God's grace into a license to sin. According to Strong's, "grace" is defined as "the divine influence upon the heart and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His commands, so God shows His grace to us by teaching us to obey His Law. There are 1,050 commands in the NT, so both the Mosaic Covenant and New Covenant are just as much covenants of grace as they are of Law. According to Leviticus 19:1-3, keeping God's Sabbath is about acting in accordance with the holiness of our God, so the way to act in accordance with God's holiness can't be abolished without first abolishing God's holiness.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  2. GraceBro

    GraceBro Eternally Forgiven, Alive, and Secure.

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    The original Sabbath Day is Saturday. "Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever. It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested...(Exodus 31:16-17). It was never Sunday. Some Christians believe that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday because of a verse like Acts 20:7, which reads, "On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight." However, I am of the opinion that the only reason they met on the "first day of the week (i.e. Sunday)" is because they were observing the Sabbath on Saturday and couldn't meet. The early church was full of Jewish converts still highly steeped in the Law. However, Christians are not under the Law and not obligated to keep the Sabbath or any other Mosaic Laws. Besides, most that claim to be observing the Saturday Sabbath are violating it because they are working, leaving their homes, starting fires, etc., in order to meet, and not resting in their homes. For Christians, the Sabbath is not a day of the week, but an attitude of the heart; "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience (Hebrews 4:9-11)." The Sabbath rest is ceasing from trying to maintain or obtain our right-standing before God through our disobedient works of the flesh, but instead, trusting in and depending on the finished work of Jesus Christ on our behalf and allowing Him to live His life through us in the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Amen.
     
  3. 2Timothy2:15

    2Timothy2:15 Well-Known Member

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    Galatians
    19For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
     
  4. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    God could have easily have commanded us to set one day aside per week, but He didn't. It should be fairly straightforward that God commanded His followers to keep the Sabbath on the 7th day because that is what He wanted. It should also be fairly straightforward that God would not have prescribed the death penalty for breaking the Sabbath if it wasn't important to Him for us to keep, and we can see throughout the Bible that it was extremely important to Him. Meeting on the 7th day is of course not what it is about, but it is certainly an act of faith that is part of what it is about.

    Do you think that it is ok for us to muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out corn? All of God's commands are intended to teach us things about Him and how to reflect His attributes, so if we correctly understand those principles, then we will do things that are in accordance with those principles, not consider ourselves free from having to do those things.
     
  5. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    Please explain how it makes sense to interpret this as saying that we need to die to God's instructions for how to live for Him in order to be free to live for him. Rather, it is through God's Law that died to the law that was hindering us from doing the good that we want to do, aka the law of sin. I completely agree that righteousness does not come from the Law, but it was never given for that purpose in the first place, and it doesn't not follow that because we should obey the Law for a purpose for which it was never given that therefore we shouldn't obey it for the many purposes for which it was given.
     
  6. 2Timothy2:15

    2Timothy2:15 Well-Known Member

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    The text explains itself. He says he is dead to the law and alive in Christ. He is saying if you try to earn righteousness or right standing by the law you do away with the finished work of the cross.

    Galatians 3 he continues

    24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    The Law = schoolmaster. It's purpose is to bring us unto Jesus.

    After Faith has come, there is no longer a schoolmaster This means the law is done.

    Galatians 5
    1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

    2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

    He says if you try and go back under the law you have actually fallen from grace.
     
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  7. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    He was accused but He never broke any Commandments...
     
  8. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    How do you get that from that verse? The pagans were judging Christians for not doing what they do. How does that show it has been abolished?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  9. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    Nobody is saying that so not sure why you are bringing it up? Salvation is only through Yeshua. We are freed from the CURSE of the Law...we have a way for salvation now through Yeshua.
     
  10. Colter

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    Every day is a holy day for the faithful.
     
  11. 2Timothy2:15

    2Timothy2:15 Well-Known Member

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    Really, the epistle to Corinthians was written to pagans? No, it was written to the believers who were still caught up in some things. It says in the verse sabbath specifically, do you not see that?
     
  12. 2Timothy2:15

    2Timothy2:15 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they are saying that, Soyeng is saying that.
     
  13. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    Holy is set apart for a specific purpose, so in order for something to be holy, there needs to be something that it is set apart from. If everything is holy, then nothing is holy.
     
  14. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    You asked me about Colossians, so please interact with what I've said about how it should be interpreted. He did not say that Colossians was written to pagans, but that it was concerning pagans judging Christians. The Christians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to God's commands, they were being judged by pagans who were teaching human precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, and Paul was writing them to encourage them not to let any man keep them from obeying God.

    I can't recall the last time I've seen someone say that.
     
  15. 2Timothy2:15

    2Timothy2:15 Well-Known Member

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    First off, that comment you quoted was not to you. If you want to have a discussion go back to my post about Galatians and comment on that.

    You and I have already went down this road. You claim you follow the Mosaic Law and teach that others should too. You teach that people who do not follow the Mosaic Law are sinning. So at least be honest and comment to the post I sent to you not to another person.
     
  16. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    No, he is writing to Christians, saying do not let the pagans judge you when you do these things
     
  17. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    No he isn't and neither have I, YOU are saying he is saying that...
     
  18. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    Calm down, I replied to that post first and am currently writing a reply to your other post, though I am still waiting for a reply from you about what I've said on Colossians. If you don't reply when I show that a verse does not support your position and just go on to another verse that you think does support it, then no progress is being made. We should obey the Mosaic Law and it is straightforward that those who do what God has revealed to be sin are sinning, but I have repeatedly said that we do not need to obey the Law in order to become righteous. God had many purposes for giving the Law, but that was never one of them.
     
  19. 2Timothy2:15

    2Timothy2:15 Well-Known Member

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    Or when you don't...it is right there. It is not about Pagans judging though, it is teaching in sound doctrine.

    "Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths." Here it is merely mentioned, showing that it has been abolished in view of the Dispensation of Grace.

    Pagans did not observe the sabbath, that was for Israel. He does not say let no pagan judge you he says let no one, he is talking about other believers.

    Context is everything, look at the previous verses.

    8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

    Clearly he is not talking about Pagans and their opinions of the believer. He is warning the believers of traditions of men and those who try and force the law on you.
     
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  20. 2Timothy2:15

    2Timothy2:15 Well-Known Member

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    I am calm lol. You can read the post just above this one on Colossians where clearly the scripture supports my position. The purpose of the Law was simply to point to a savior. You can NOT follow the law and if you think you can you are deceived.

    So which of the 613 laws do you follow? Are you following sacrifices? What kind of clothes do you wear? You wear a tzittzit everyday? You bringing barely to the priests? Where are the priests? Do you not touch a woman when she is on her cycle? How would you know, do you ask every woman around you to give you her cycle schedule? Do you go and give a half sheckle to the temple every year? What temple?
     
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