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Featured The Sabbath Day: Saturday or Sunday?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by Heart2Soul, Jan 4, 2018.

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  1. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    You can't answer my question, so you insult me. You get the satisfaction of insulting me, and I get the satisfaction of winning the argument, because you can't answer my question.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Your argument is "with the text" --

    Deut 4 and 5 clearly point to the Words spoken at Sinai in Exodus 20 as "the TEN Commandments.
    Paul affirms them in Romans 13 quoting them and not the list you "prefer"
    Christ quotes them in Matt 19 and "not the list" that you "prefer"

    And what is worse for your view is that Ex 34:1 says they are written by God not Moses... The list you point at are written by Moses not God... and are not written on stone. You are using an obscure play in sentence structure in one verse to try to work it all backwards.
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Your question has been answered many times - and all answers required that you "read" documents that would correlate pagan-Greek terms for days with Hebrew terms for days... you refuse to look at the "facts".. as if "winning the argument" is to "ignore every detail in it".

    When did that solution ever work for anyone???
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Its the Greek pagan term for the 7th day of the week. The Bible uses the Hebrew term not the greek pagan term for the day.

    In fact the book of Acts shows that they met for worship and Gospel preaching "Every Sabbath" Acts 18:4 and never says any such thing for "every week day 1" regarding Gospel preaching and worship.

    This is irrefutable.

    But you are right that the Gospels show that Jesus was resurrected on week day 1... Sunday... making Saturday the 7th day of the week - by every measure!!
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Do you know what "he who breaks one - breaks them all" means in James 2?

    Do you know what this means in 1 John 2 --
    3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

    John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"
    Exodus 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
    1 John 5 :2-3 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
    Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of GOD AND their faith in Jesus"
    1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
    Isaiah 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship"
    Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made for MANKIND"
    Hebrews 4 "there REMAINS therefor a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
    Eph 6:2 the 5th Commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN

    Even these Sunday-affirming scholars/groups affirm this detail of all TEN of the TEN Commandments still binding on all mankind

    The Baptist Confession of Faith,
    the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
    D.L. Moody,
    R.C Sproul,
    Matthew Henry,
    Thomas Watson
    Eastern Orthodox Catechism
    The Catholic Catechism.

    Their flaw is that they think the Commandment can be "edited" by tradition to point to week-day-1 instead of the 7th day.



    ====================================

    What is your view of Christ's teaching? good? ...or bad? in your view?

    How about His Words in Mark 7:6-13??

    6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
    ‘This people honors Me with their lips,
    But their heart is far from Me.
    7 And in vain they worship Me,
    Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.
    8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men —the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
    9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”[/QUOTE]




    Ex 16 "tomorrow is the Sabbath"
    1 John 5:2 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
    Isaiah 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
    Exodus 16 - for 6 days of the week manna fell. but on THE 7th day.. no manna... for 40 years.
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    You keep switching between the Greek Pagan term for days ... and the Hebrew version "as if" -- "the Bible was supposed to map them for you" and you need not look at any history or documented fact to do that mapping.

    were we simply "not supposed to notice"??
     
  7. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

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    I don't think the passage supports that. The passage supports the idea that the commands given in Ex 34 are the commands written on the stones.

    34:27 The Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”

    I think the problem is that the passage seems to say that the commands given in Ex 34 are the very ones that are written on the stones.

    ....and the passage seems to say that what is written on the tablets are the commands in Ex 34, and that is what God wrote on the first tablets.

    Though in Exodus 20 they aren't called the "ten commandments." Undoubtedly you will try to point to Deut 4:13 to support your list of "ten commandments." But this will be unsuccessful for you as well since you will be unable to link the commands in Deut 5 to the "ten commandments" phrase in Deut 4, since I think I could successfully argue that (a) the list in Deut 5:6-21 seems to be more than 10 commands and (b) there is sufficient space between Deut 5 and Deut 4:13 were we see God giving other commands as well making it more difficult to link Deut 4:13 to any specific list of 10.

    You also seem to be looking at Ex 20:1-21 in isolation. We don't see anything being written on the tablets until Ex 24, which seems to indicate that what's on those tablets was the entire holiness code through Ex 23:33, not a mere 10 commands. Of course, much of what we find in that holiness code is also found in Ex 34, and apparently you aren't following those commands, so you will have to somehow argue that the holiness code wasn't on the tablets at all....ever.

    Because that's what they're called in vs 28.

    Except in vss 27-28

    Ex 34 doesn't support that view.

    God speaks the commands in vss 7-26 and then tells Moses, "write down these words, for in accordance with these words"...the words we just observed in vss 7-26. Then we are told that "he wrote on the tablets." The only indications we have of anything being written are the words we see in vss 7-26 and then they are explicitly called the ten commandments.
     
  8. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    My question hasn't been answered once. Where does the Bible say that Saturday is the last day of the week?
     
  9. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    I ask the question over and over again and still haven't been given the answer. So maybe the sabbath doesn't have to be Saturday. Would that be the end of the world?
     
  10. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    ignorance is bliss
     
  11. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    If you can't answer someone's question, insult him?
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Nothing in the text says Moses was writing on stones -- only God was writing on the stones.

    And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.


    Moses was "writing in a book"

    John Gill's Commentary Ex 34:27
    write thou these words; expressed in the preceding verses, from Exodus 34:11, as he before had written in a book all those laws, contained in Exodus 21:1 called the book of the covenant, Exodus 24:4 and which perhaps might be destroyed, as well as the two tables were broken; and therefore upon the renewal of the covenant here, there is a repetition made of the principal laws before given, which are ordered also to be written in a book, which may very well be called by the same name, since it follows:


    John Gill's commentary - Ex 34:28
    and he wrote on the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments; not Moses, for these were tables of stone, which he could not write or engrave upon without proper instruments, which it does not appear he had with him on the mount; but it was God that wrote them, who, in Exodus 34:1 says he would write them, and from Deuteronomy 10:2 we are assured he did

    Its the actual TEN Commandments quoted in Eph 6:2, Romans 13, Matt 19 -- and that quote does not show up at all in "Moses' writing" in Ex 34
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    BobRyan said:
    You keep switching between the Greek Pagan term for days ... and the Hebrew version "as if" -- "the Bible was supposed to map them for you" and you need not look at any history or documented fact to do that mapping.

    were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

    And it gets answered over and over again.

    were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

    You keep switching between the Greek Pagan term for days ... and the Hebrew version "as if" -- "the Bible was supposed to map them for you"


    were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

    If you read the posts carefully it is not merely the people that want to honor the Sabbath that are pointing out your logic flaw in expecting the Bible to use pagan-greek terms for days or to map them for you... it is also the people that want Sunday as the Sabbath or as an alternative.

    You have managed to endorse a logic flaw that everyone on both sides freely admits to seeing. "As if" that is solving something.
     
  14. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    You call asking dumb questions winning? LOL, um OK...you won!
     
  15. RadiantGrace

    RadiantGrace Member

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    You are going back to the same false premise, the basis of the SDA sect. Again, again, again... Saturday is the Sabbath. You are attempting to draw me into an argument that Saturday is not the Sabbath when no one is making that argument. Your religious tradition is based on convincing people they think Saturday is not the Sabbath.

    Your sect's strawman argument has no affect on me because you can't tell me I don't think Saturday is the Sabbath when I am telling you repeatedly that Saturday is the Sabbath. So please, continue arguing with me as if I am arguing that Saturday is not the Sabbath because that is all the SDA sect uses to justify its existence.
     
  16. RadiantGrace

    RadiantGrace Member

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    I don't think you even know what you are arguing at this point.
     
  17. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    You can insult me as much as you want, but I am still waiting for you to tell me where the Bible states that Saturday is the last day of the week.
     
  18. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    I'm asking you why you disregard the7th day Sabbath and under whose authority do you do this?
     
  19. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    And there you go again LOL!
     
  20. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    You can insult me till the cows come home.
     
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