The Role of Islam in Western Civil Society

[Ringo84]

Preventing citizens of a country the right to free exercise of religion is dangerous ground to tread. Just as easily as it is used against "the Muslims", it can be used against Christians. Perhaps we ought to consider that before we jump too far into the bigoted statements about Muslims and Muhammad.
Ringo

 

[Philip_B]

Preventing citizens of a country the right to free exercise of religion is dangerous ground to tread. Just as easily as it is used against "the Muslims", it can be used against Christians. Perhaps we ought to consider that before we jump too far into the bigoted statements about Muslims and Muhammad.
Ringo

I get what you are saying here. The cultural norm that lies behind what you say is deeply rooted in the separation of Church and State. If a religious position is taken which does not acknowledge the separation of Church and State, then there are likely to be some significant challenges to this position. The ISIS brand of Islam clearly has expressed a view which is clearly counter the separation of Church and State. It remains in the facts of history that where Christians have failed to separate Church and State there have been some fairly tragic consequences. I don't think any of it is easy, and sadly the media in the west is unlikely to help us form a balanced view.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Preventing citizens of a country the right to free exercise of religion is dangerous ground to tread. Just as easily as it is used against "the Muslims", it can be used against Christians. Perhaps we ought to consider that before we jump too far into the bigoted statements about Muslims and Muhammad.
Ringo

Christianity and "the West" grew up together like siblings.

 

[FireDragon76]

• If someone entirely rejects the social values of a society, is their citizenship in that society legitimate?

Yeah, we could start wire-tapping southern baptists and eavesdropping on pentecostals. Last time I checked these folks were constantly critical of the predominant way of life of many Americans.

Religious fanaticism is not unique to Islam. We here in America just give anything labelled Christian a free pass. There have been far more Christian terrorists in America, than Muslim.

 

[mindlight]

In light of unrelenting Islamist terror attacks, violations of the social norms of traditionally Christian states, and a certain ambiguity regarding these problems from Islamic leaders and institutions, ranging from Erdogan to Al-Azhar, I believe it is time we give some consideration to a re-evaluation of the role of Islam as a religion and as a set of cultural values in Western Society, from a security-oriented perspective, as the previously dominant multicultural assumptions now seem untenable.

Some questions to consider:

• Are civil rights and human dignity neccessarily synonymous, or can one respect the latter while constraining the former based on the requirements of civil security?
• Is it equitable for civil rights to exist for persons who reject those rights?
• To what extent are civil rights inherently attached to and dependent on participation within a particular civilization or definition of civilization?
• How can religious freedom be accomodated within the requirements of public safety?
• If someone entirely rejects the social values of a society, is their citizenship in that society legitimate?

Islam itself in the negative is a blasphemous deceit that enslaves and impoverishes the vast majority of its adherents. Thus Muslim refugees from failed Muslim states benefit from migrating to the West.

In the positive and by comparison with a great many in Western society they represent the following:

1) a challenge to isolationist rich fat Christians to get off their backsides and start presenting Jesus to the lost.
2) They have babies and families and low divorce rates while Westerners grow increasingly selfish, infertile and wounded as a result of their experiences of abortion, divorce and immoral living.
3) They can hold a conversation about God in an age where an increasing number of Christians cannot do the same.

So Muslim immigration overall is a good thing because it is an opportunity to reach the unsaved and improve their lives also, it is a challenge to a complacent, comfortable and self concerned version of Christianity in the West, it is an answer to the infertility and demographic timebomb of Europe and it is a helpful challenge to modern secularisation

 

[TLK Valentine]

Blind post. Quick question:

• If someone entirely rejects the social values of a society, is their citizenship in that society legitimate?

Values such as, for example, slavery?

Or more to the point, doesn't history tell us that sometimes "society" has values which should be rejected?

 

[redleghunter]

Blind post. Quick question:



Values such as, for example, slavery?

Or more to the point, doesn't history tell us that sometimes "society" has values which should be rejected?

Thanks good question. Is the question within the OP of role of Islam in Western civil society? I ask because there could be positive and negative effects of any culture foreign to another.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Thanks good question. Is the question within the OP of role of Islam in Western civil society? I ask because there could be positive and negative effects of any culture foreign to another.

American culture has always managed to take the best of everything that has shown up on its doorstep.

Can Western civil society incorporate Islam into it as it has, for example, Judaism? I think it can.

Are some members going to be unhappy with compromise and demand more? Most certainly.

Can Western civil society weed out the malcontents without harming those who can adapt? I think it can.

Are we, as Western civil society, willing to try? That is the question...

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Can Western civil society incorporate Islam into it as it has, for example, Judaism? I think it can.

Gracious, the last thing this country needs is an Islamic counterpart of the ADL or AIPAC. The original versions have caused enough trouble, thank you very much.

Can Western civil society weed out the malcontents without harming those who can adapt? I think it can.

Refusing a foreigner entry into your country is not harming him. Whatever harm comes to him is a result of conditions in his country.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Gracious, the last thing this country needs is an Islamic counterpart of the ADL or AIPAC. The original versions have caused enough trouble, thank you very much.

Fret not; you'll get over it.

Refusing a foreigner entry into your country is not harming him. Whatever harm comes to him is a result of conditions in his country.

And while nothing says "Christian" or "America" like "let them die; not my problem," there is a small snag regarding refugees -- a snag called The Geneva Conventions.