The role of demons in the Florida high school shooting

DominicBaptiste

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There are so many things to think and pray about after a tragedy like this. The topic I'm bringing up here I do not view as the first or necessarily even most important issue related to this shooting. Certainly things like praying for the families of victims and healing of the injured and emotional healing for all who were there is more important.

But this issue is also important. It has been reported in the news that the shooter claimed to hear voices in his head and some have identified these voices as being demonic.

This raises some discussion topics.

What do you think about this?
How might demons gain such influence in a person's life?
Can Christians be oppressed and influenced by demons?
What can we do about it?
I would argue that schools are more like prisons for children, and when you put that many people together, things are bound to go wrong eventually. I hate public schools. If I ever had kids, I would try to find a very small school out in the middle of nowhere or home school. The only demonic voices I ever heard in school were the voices of bratty kids.
 
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Daniel9v9

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I think because of Rationalism, demonic forces is something that is quickly disregarded and scoffed at in our age; especially in Protestantism, perhaps the most in Reformed branches. I don't think it's Scriptural to lay all the blame on evil as if it was something purely external to and separate from us. That becomes a kind of Gnostic notion. However, I think if we are to take God's word with seriousness and face value, we should acknowledge that not only are we evil, but many can have evil spirits. Regardless of the condition; sickness or evil forces, we should pray for healing.
 
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SolomonVII

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You can't put the whole blame on demonic influence, people need to be seriously aware that they also bear responsibility for their actions. The easy answer of "the devil made me do it" isn't going to fly because there is far more to the story that involves what is going on. You might want to start with being familiar with what needs to go on in their mind before they ever get to the point of murdering.
.................revenge against God for the outrage of creation..................

..................arrogance and pride driving by pride of infamy and notoriety.......................

This defines the Satanic mindset...
 
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R. Hartono

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Would you mind elaborating; I cannot make a connection with that short statement.
People caught killing the others wickedly will give the easiest excuse for his crime, blame demon ! he will then be put in mental hospital and escape jail and death penalty.
 
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FireDragon76

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But he was functional enough so he got into the school with a rifle, maneuvered a number of students to go where they could be his targets, and he got past the police afterward, about a mile or so?

Some developmental disabilities only impact someone's social abilities.
 
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cfdude

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Whilst I understand as a Christian site the go to position for those hearing voices is that it's demonic possession. I find the view unacceptable though and not in touch nor helpful for those with psychotic mental health disorders.

Maybe it's the go to position for those who are willing see more than science does, which btw, by it's own intangible standards can't even justify it's own criteria. Here is one of your own with such an ability. What to make of such accounts from a purely scientific worldview?

"But my subject’s behavior exceeded what I could explain with my training. She could tell some people their secret weaknesses, such as undue pride. She knew how individuals she’d never known had died, including my mother and her fatal case of ovarian cancer. Six people later vouched to me that, during her exorcisms, they heard her speaking multiple languages, including Latin, completely unfamiliar to her outside of her trances. This was not psychosis; it was what I can only describe as paranormal ability."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...share=5241467379040029&utm_term=.c7de61ca4995
 
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brocke

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What are we doing looking for the devil when we should be looking for God.

Deliverance from Demons or a need for better Mental Health Care? Hearing voices is a serious sign of Mental Illness that could be attached to a variety of diagnoses. Perhaps the focus and ministry of deliverance needs to be about Mental Illness before just saying its demon possession.
 
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High Fidelity

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and some have identified these voices as being demonic.

How? Did they hear them?

No. They're speculating.

He was probably schizophrenic, but given the propensity of Americans shooting up schools, it's hard to believe that alone was the only issue or even the tipping point.
 
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High Fidelity

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What are we doing looking for the devil when we should be looking for God.

Deliverance from Demons or a need for better Mental Health Care? Hearing voices is a serious sign of Mental Illness that could be attached to a variety of diagnoses. Perhaps the focus and ministry of deliverance needs to be about Mental Illness before just saying its demon possession.

Right? It's so annoying.

Had a nightmare? DEMONS!

Didn't get a job you went for despite praying for it? SATAN.

Stubbed your toe this morning? DEMONS.

Forget where you put your car keys? DEMONS.

It's ridiculous how it's the first port of call of any anomaly or misfortune.
 
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cfdude

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It's funny that Christians are opposed and annoyed to actually seeing the world from a scriptural and spiritual point of view. Jesus and His apostles saw the world and it's hindrances as coming from the Satanic realm. Were they not looking unto God or emphasizing something they should not have? Absurd. Wake up fellow Christians. "They" have you thinking this is all matter in motion and you bought the lie. Meanwhile, the enemy is dancing a jig of deception and destruction around you.

  • 1Jn 5:19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
  • 2Co 4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
  • Mat 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. Mat 4:9 And he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me."
  • Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience--
  • 2Ti 2:26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
  • 1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
  • 1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
  • Mar 4:15 And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them.
  • Luk 13:16 And ought not this woman, a daughter of Abraham whom Satan bound for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath day?"
  • Joh 13:27 Then after he had taken the morsel, Satan entered into him.
  • Luk 22:31 "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat,
  • 2Co 12:7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.
  • 1Th 2:18 because we wanted to come to you--I, Paul, again and again--but Satan hindered us.
  • 1Pe 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
  • 1Ti 3:7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
  • 1Ti 3:6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
  • 2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
  • Act 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
  • 2Th 3:3 But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.
  • Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
  • 2Co 2:10 Anyone whom you forgive, I also forgive. Indeed, what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ, 11 so that we would not be outwitted by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his designs.
  • Eph 4:26 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and give no opportunity to the devil.
  • 1Co 7:5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
  • 1Co 10:20 No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.
  • 1Jn 2:13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father. 14 I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

There are so many scriptures revealing the true reality behind what we see...I could go on but will stop here.
 
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cfdude

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The problem for those with mental health issues is that the stigma of it is made all the more worse when everyone including the patient
is told they are possessed by satan or demons.
I agree but what of the exclusion of the spiritual? Are someone's voices always just chemical delusions or can there be a truth missed and not considered? Demons should not always be ruled out is my argument especially when the evidence of many of the voices people are hearing are evil and destructive.

Here is a video coming from the perspective that the negative voices are entities..

"Jerry Marzinsky, a licensed Mental Health Practitioner and Counselor for the States of Georgia and Arizona talks about his 35 years of working with Schizophrenic Patients in State Hospitals as well as in the Prison System. Jerry came to the grim realization that the "voices" psychotic patients were hearing were in actual fact entities that were pouring negative scorn upon the patients and prisoners. Sometimes these "voices" would give very specific instructions to the patients or former criminals and tell them how to bring harm or misfortune to themselves and others. These voices seemed to know a lot about the geography, conditions and even future behavior of certain individuals."

 
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Zoii

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I agree but what of the exclusion of the spiritual? Are someone's voices always just chemical delusions or can there be a truth missed and not considered? It should not always be ruled out is my argument especially when the evidence of many of the voices people are hearing are evil and destructive.

I understand your point. But I just want to highlight that up until probably the last 20 years, this cohort were grossly misunderstood and abused. Locked up, taken advantage of, and called dangerously crazy or simply satanic. Not everyone realises that those suffering a psychosis frequently hear voices that are outright evil. They hear satanic things no doubt, and some even see satanic things.... I just want people to understand that it doesn't mean they are possessed. Horrible visual and auditory hallucinations are unfortunately part of many forms of psychosis.
 
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cfdude

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I understand your point. But I just want to highlight that up until probably the last 20 years, this cohort were grossly misunderstood and abused. Locked up, taken advantage of, and called dangerously crazy or simply satanic. Not everyone realises that those suffering a psychosis frequently hear voices that are outright evil. They hear satanic things no doubt, and some even see satanic things.... I just want people to understand that it doesn't mean they are possessed. Horrible visual and auditory hallucinations are unfortunately part of many forms of psychosis.
I agree that many people suffer from medical illnesses and should be ruled out prior to diagnosing the spiritual. However, given today's modern arrogance that mocks and rejects spiritual anything, I think there is evidence that can make the case that what might be downplayed as psychosis and merely delusional is actually best explained as paranormal or demonic in nature. This idea though is immediately ruled out with caution.
 
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cfdude

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As is reinforced by James 1:14 ->

Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. (NKJV)
Yes, but make sure you also quote the same author a few chapters later...

  • Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
 
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mindlight

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There are so many things to think and pray about after a tragedy like this. The topic I'm bringing up here I do not view as the first or necessarily even most important issue related to this shooting. Certainly things like praying for the families of victims and healing of the injured and emotional healing for all who were there is more important.

But this issue is also important. It has been reported in the news that the shooter claimed to hear voices in his head and some have identified these voices as being demonic.

This raises some discussion topics.

What do you think about this?
How might demons gain such influence in a person's life?
Can Christians be oppressed and influenced by demons?
What can we do about it?

Demons whisper truths and half truths mingled together in such a way as to get you do something awful and to think at the time it is the right thing to do.

A man who thinks that blacks and Muslims represent more than an existential threat, that the education system serves the purpose of weakening Americas resolve in the face of false religion and dysfunctional and unfamiliar cultures and that the possession of an AR-15 by the mentally unstable is something sanctioned by the second Amendment is easy to manipulate.

That murder is a sin, that innocent American school children are not to blame and that there is nothing heroic or just about what he did somehow gets buried underneath the demons narrative.

There is a solution to this dilemma, to this never ending cycle of violence and despair. America needs to ask about the ease with which unsuitable people can acquire and then carry weapons of mass destruction into schools. They need to ask who is actually committing the violent acts inside America - Muslims or Americans and why? They need to ask if the racism that has characterised American society for most of its existence has anything to do with Anglo Saxon Protestant purity or just an unchristian reading of the scriptures.
 
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Francis Drake

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So do you punish him if it was demons?
Certainly yes.
He is still responsible as was Adam.
The Law of Moses made it clear that murder was always punishable by death, and the same should be true today to remove the guilt of innocent blood off the land.
 
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