The rise of socialism in America

hislegacy

A child at 20 weeks
Nov 15, 2006
39,957
12,349
Broken Arrow, OK
✟458,899.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Socialism on the Rise: Is There Anything We Can Do about It?

Murray himself is quite familiar with what it means to live under a socialist system, growing up under “late-stage democratic socialism” in the United Kingdom. After the Labour Party embarked on large-scale nationalization, including nationalizing manufacturing and utilities, the vast majority of the workforce ended up working for nationalized entities. This led to very strong labor unions that frequently exercised their power through strikes. Murray remembers doing homework by candlelight because electrical workers were on strike, and not being able to get to school because public transportation workers on strike. While many people don’t think of Britain in the 1970s as a “socialist” country per se, socialism does just not mean the gulag or a utopia, Sandefur said—“it’s much more like an endless series of staff meetings,” where people must jump through hoops to get anything from government.​
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Danthemailman

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
26,339
15,987
Orlando, Florida
✟970,516.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
The Goldwater Institute is a propaganda mill. Most people who lived through the 70's in the UK didn't think it was terrible, and it was preferable to deregulation and falling standards of living that occurred later due to laissez-faire policies of neoliberalism.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Vanellus
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
7,673
6,340
62
Martinez
✟666,195.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Socialism on the Rise: Is There Anything We Can Do about It?

Murray himself is quite familiar with what it means to live under a socialist system, growing up under “late-stage democratic socialism” in the United Kingdom. After the Labour Party embarked on large-scale nationalization, including nationalizing manufacturing and utilities, the vast majority of the workforce ended up working for nationalized entities. This led to very strong labor unions that frequently exercised their power through strikes. Murray remembers doing homework by candlelight because electrical workers were on strike, and not being able to get to school because public transportation workers on strike. While many people don’t think of Britain in the 1970s as a “socialist” country per se, socialism does just not mean the gulag or a utopia, Sandefur said—“it’s much more like an endless series of staff meetings,” where people must jump through hoops to get anything from government.​
Well " late stage Republican Authoritarianism " doesn't seem much better.
Thank God for rational moderates.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/08/04/hungarys-authoritarian-leader-no-gift-us-conservatives
 
Upvote 0

hislegacy

A child at 20 weeks
Nov 15, 2006
39,957
12,349
Broken Arrow, OK
✟458,899.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

hislegacy

A child at 20 weeks
Nov 15, 2006
39,957
12,349
Broken Arrow, OK
✟458,899.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Opinion:

Socialism seems to have the same methodology no after where you find it.

  • strong base on class warfare
  • Utilizes labor unions as a voting and power base
  • Believes the more government intervention is businesses, the better it is for everyone
  • Relies heavily on propaganda through mass media
  • operates Mainly on stoking division and fear
 
Upvote 0

wing2000

E pluribus unum
Supporter
Aug 18, 2012
18,167
14,243
✟1,099,026.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Opinion:

Socialism seems to have the same methodology no after where you find it.

  • strong base on class warfare
  • Utilizes labor unions as a voting and power base
  • Believes the more government intervention is businesses, the better it is for everyone
  • Relies heavily on propaganda through mass media
  • operates Mainly on stoking division and fear

Opinion:
If companies compensated their employees fairly and valued them as human beings (with a life outside work) rather than a cost data point, there would be no impetus for labor unions.
 
Upvote 0

hislegacy

A child at 20 weeks
Nov 15, 2006
39,957
12,349
Broken Arrow, OK
✟458,899.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Opinion:
If companies compensated their employees fairly and valued them as human beings (with a life outside work) rather than a cost data point, there would be no impetus for labor unions.

Yup, that is one of the more famous rationalizations.

Then you ask about instances like the recent railroad agreement that forced the company to authorize 25% pay increases.
 
Upvote 0

Paulos23

Never tell me the odds!
Mar 23, 2005
7,785
3,986
Washington State
✟256,696.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Yup, that is one of the more famous rationalizations.

Then you ask about instances like the recent railroad agreement that forced the company to authorize 25% pay increases.
If I remember correctly, the issue wasn't the pay, it was the scheduling (or lack there of) of conductors and having them always "on-call". The company wanted to increase pay to gloss over it, but the union wasn't having it.
 
Upvote 0

Desk trauma

Vibranium Chancla
Supporter
Dec 1, 2011
17,514
13,667
✟908,910.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Opinion:
If companies compensated their employees fairly and valued them as human beings (with a life outside work) rather than a cost data point, there would be no impetus for labor unions.
And that would clearly be un American SOCIALISM!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: ToddNotTodd
Upvote 0

hislegacy

A child at 20 weeks
Nov 15, 2006
39,957
12,349
Broken Arrow, OK
✟458,899.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
And that would clearly be un American SOCIALISM!

The only thing in your comment that is lacking are issues and facts.

You do realize conductors make north of 100,000 a year before the 25% pay increase.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

Desk trauma

Vibranium Chancla
Supporter
Dec 1, 2011
17,514
13,667
✟908,910.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
The only thing in your comment that is lacking are issues and facts.

Also no reference to the conductors.

You do realize conductors make north of 100,000 a year before the 25% pay increase.
Clearly that pay rate justifies having to work any schedule without complaint.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Paulos23
Upvote 0

wing2000

E pluribus unum
Supporter
Aug 18, 2012
18,167
14,243
✟1,099,026.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The only thing in your comment that is lacking are issues and facts.

You do realize conductors make north of 100,000 a year before the 25% pay increase.

Source for the final agreement as well as conductor salary information?
 
Upvote 0

hislegacy

A child at 20 weeks
Nov 15, 2006
39,957
12,349
Broken Arrow, OK
✟458,899.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Socialism, as that term is properly understood, most certainly does not entail believing that more government intervention is always better

Name one Nation that self identifies as socialist that does not use government to completely control businesses.

Denmark is not a socialist nation. Just thought I would throw that in.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
32,606
9,384
✟349,938.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Opinion:

Socialism seems to have the same methodology no after where you find it.

  • strong base on class warfare
  • Utilizes labor unions as a voting and power base
  • Believes the more government intervention is businesses, the better it is for everyone
  • Relies heavily on propaganda through mass media
  • operates Mainly on stoking division and fear

I think you're confusing Marxism with socialism.
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
32,606
9,384
✟349,938.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Socialism on the Rise: Is There Anything We Can Do about It?

Murray himself is quite familiar with what it means to live under a socialist system, growing up under “late-stage democratic socialism” in the United Kingdom. After the Labour Party embarked on large-scale nationalization, including nationalizing manufacturing and utilities, the vast majority of the workforce ended up working for nationalized entities. This led to very strong labor unions that frequently exercised their power through strikes. Murray remembers doing homework by candlelight because electrical workers were on strike, and not being able to get to school because public transportation workers on strike. While many people don’t think of Britain in the 1970s as a “socialist” country per se, socialism does just not mean the gulag or a utopia, Sandefur said—“it’s much more like an endless series of staff meetings,” where people must jump through hoops to get anything from government.​

Most of the youngsters these days who declare themselves socialists are not actually socialists. They don't really know or understand what socialism is....they just have learned to blame things on capitalism like their peers and teachers....and don't actually know what capitalism is either lol.

I watched a video addressing the phenomenon of the young and ignorant declaring themselves socialist. It took place on a college campus (UCLA I think). The interviewer would ask students if they were capitalist, socialist, communist, etc....and overwhelmingly the students said socialist....and then the interviewer would ask what class they were headed to.

After answering the interviewer presented the student with a petition for a socialist grading system....and the majority of these socialist students were ready to sign, but first wanted to know what a socialist grading system meant.

It was explained that those with higher grades would donate more to the students who did poorly or failed....thereby ensuring everyone got the same grade at the end as everyone who did well.

Once students heard this....they suddenly didn't want to sign. They explained that they earned their grades by studying hard and sacrificing. They didn't want someone who spent their time partying to get a free ride off their hard work.

Of course, the following discussion on what socialism is revealed they were clueless....and had no idea that when it came to their work, they preferred capitalism and free markets.

This is a crude and not entirely correct analogy....but it served the point to the audience. These so called socialists are anything but socialists.
 
Upvote 0