The right view of sin...

[Neogaia777]

I would reject any of this at the impulse stage and be happy for doing it.

Thanks, but unfortunately it's just not that simple, not something you can just ignore and make go away, but something you almost "have to respond to" or confront... They do not go away or ever shut up otherwise...

God Bless!

 

[Dave L]

Thanks, but unfortunately it's just not that simple, not something you can just ignore and make go away, but something you almost "have to respond to" or confront... They do not go away otherwise...

God Bless!

I've never experienced this but taking authority over spiritual forces in Jesus' name works wonders.

 

[Neogaia777]

I've never experienced this but taking authority over spiritual forces in Jesus' name works wonders.

I don't usually get upset anymore, (found out that not only does that not work, but it's just not the way to do it) I usually just do it with some line of reason and or logic (with a lot of help I believe) and that usually does the trick (till another time that is)...

I hope that is taking authority...

But as for it ever being 100% completely gone, It's the thorn in my side, so...

God Bless!

 

[Dkh587]

To have a correct view of sin, wouldn’t we need to have a standard that defines what sin is?

 

[NeedyFollower]

I don't usually get upset anymore, (found out that not only does that not work, but it's just not the way to do it) I usually just do it with some line or reason and or logic (with a lot of help I believe) and that usually does the trick (till another time that is)...

I hope that is taking authority...

But as for it ever being 100% completely gone, It's the thorn in my side, so...

God Bless!

Hi Brother ...we have this treasure in earthen ( fleshly ) vessels ....I think I know what you are talking about ..( maybe ) ...what a battle against the flesh this race is ....I wonder when Jesus said " to agree with your adversary quickly when you are in the way , lest he deliver you to the judge ...etc. " Clearly Jesus was not practicing law here ...regarding wrong thoughts , etc. ..I do try to take them captive but also I acknowledge the source ...if they are from the enemy and the enemy accuses me ...I agree with him so as to take away his power to accuse ...I confess to the Lord and ask forgiveness for I know that we are clean by the WORD of God but still need our "feet washed. " I also have brothers and sisters washing my feet in prayer ...If this is error , I am open to correction and rebuke . ( I prefer the wounds of a friend than the flattery of an enemy....though it is difficult . )

 

[1stcenturylady]

The right view of sin, is that sin is always wrong, and never right, and that is the right view of sin...

Now, before some of you start saying "Yeah, that's it, get those sinners" Don't be to hasty lest you forget that I am talking about people who would say that's "sins" as well... For all, ALL are sinners, and there is not exception, unless you absolutely 100% perfect, your a sinner, (hence some of my frustration with that crowd who would say that or say otherwise)...

Now, is this truly always the case, that all sin is never right and always wrong...? I must explain that I don't like those distinctions for there is/are always "exceptions"... Like someone lying to Nazi's who are hiding Jews in their house in Nazi Germany during WWII... That might be an exception... However, many try to take that or stretch that way, way to far, in and trying to justify everyone's sins, including and especially in most cases, their own, and that should not be so...

I am taking about "everyone" here, no one is excluded, whether those who would know they sin and try to justify it, or those who would completely deny their sin, and try hard to remain ignorant of it, and judge or come down on others, ect, for both are sinners and are in sin either way...

In conclusion, I would say that most of the time, a great majority of the time, almost all sin(s) are always wrong and never right, and that is the right view of sin...

Now, what do we do (about it)...? That is the question...?

I think we must all of us, get on the same page first, that we are all sinners and start from there, hopefully, "together"...

But after that...? I am open to suggestions at that/this point...

Comments...?

God Bless!

You are not reconciling 1 John 3:9 when you say "all have sinned." Yes, all have sinned that has ever been born after Adam sinned. BUT Jesus took away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. So your post has nothing to do with true Christians. (I'm not saying that those in the church professing to be Christians and yet have no power over sin are in this category. God calls them vomit.)

 

[1stcenturylady]

Would you maybe care to explain what you mean maybe...?

Transgressions (trespasses) and iniquities (shortcomings) are sin as well, right...?

God Bless!

I see you are equating transgressions with trespasses, and iniquities with shortcomings. I would have said:

Transgressions (iniquities). Iniquity was found in Lucifer. (major)
Trespasses (shortcomings). Unintentionally and unwittingly committed (minor) Leviticus 5:15

 

[Dave L]

To have a correct view of sin, wouldn’t we need to have a standard that defines what sin is?

sin = 88.289 ἁμαρτάνω; ἁμαρτίαa, ας f: to act contrary to the will and law of God—‘to sin, to engage in wrongdoing, sin.’

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 772). New York: United Bible Societies.

 

[Neogaia777]

To have a correct view of sin, wouldn’t we need to have a standard that defines what sin is?

Yes, we do... How much is sin, and what is or is not sin...? But, BUT, not to try and justify ourselves over others, or as being better than another, or to say we have no sin and don't sin and are not a "sinner" and things like these that are wrong, evil, and wicked and are sin in themselves though, or always lead to all kinds of wrong, sin, evil and wickedness in themselves though (produce sin and wickedness as a, or it's fruit though) ...

And not to try and think we'll get in the door because we say, or we have defined sin to the point, that and/or because we think that by defining sin by what we think and not doing it, will get us in the door or into heaven though, cause that is not why or how it happens, or how it works at all...

But it does sometimes seem like nearly all, or the human condition is sin sometimes...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I see you are equating transgressions with trespasses, and iniquities with shortcomings. I would have said:

Transgressions (iniquities). Iniquity was found in Lucifer. (major)
Trespasses (shortcomings). Unintentionally and unwittingly committed (minor) Leviticus 5:15

"Why" do you try to classify sin and/or sins as more or less major or minor than others or things of that sort...?

"What" are your "true motives" of or behind such a thing...? And, are they sin...?

God Bless!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It's still hardly ever right, and almost always wrong though...

What do we do about it...?

Are we supposed to just do the best we can, by ourselves, on our own, or what...?

And where is God in all of this...?

God Bless!

The bottom line is that God hates sin, and if people retain habitual sin in their lives, no matter how religious they are, they will still go to hell, because God will not have fellowship with those who hold on to their favourite sins. God will not accept any excuse for sin. If we don't hate sin as much as God hates it, then our conversion to Christ is unsound. Jesus came to save us from sin, not in it.

The evidence of a true conversion to Christ is repentance from every known sin, and getting the search-light of the Holy Spirit to shine in every corner of the heart to root out the hidden ones as well. This is not trying to be justified by the law, but it is undergoing the essential transformation of our hearts by the power of the Holy Spirit, and that won't happen until full repentance is made.

I have discovered that the baptism with the Spirit, conversion, and the Methodist "entire sanctification" (not sinless perfection) are the same thing. It is the Holy Spirit who baptises us into the body of Christ (conversion), Jesus baptises us with the Holy Spirit at the same time.

True conversion puts our full dependence on Christ and causes us to hate sin, especially in ourselves. Therefore we treat our own self-righteousness with disgust and loathing and come totally to Christ.

Of course the flesh is going to trip us up, but we treat it as a stone in our shoe. We don't want it to be there and it causes us discomfort.

Those who keep their favourite sins and try to make excuses for it are not genuinely converted and if they go on in this state, they will find themselves falling into hell when their life is over.

 

[1stcenturylady]

"Why" do you try to classify sin and/or sins as more or less major or minor than others or things of that sort...?

"What" are your "true motives" of or behind such a thing...? And, are they sin...?

God Bless!

I try to look at scripture about subjects the way God sees them. In this case - sin - there are sins unto death (major), and sins NOT unto death (minor) 1 John 5:16-17. In Numbers 15 we see a sacrifice for minor sins, unintentionally committed. But you will also note further in the same chapter, there was no sacrifice for major sins against the commandments of God, they killed them. Yes, Jesus blood takes away even major past sins, but then Jesus gives us His own Spirit so we should never have to deal with that type of sin ever again. 1 John 3:9 tells us that with that seed of the Father in us, we cannot sin. That means sins of lawlessness (major). But 1 John 1:7 shows us that we will still commit some type of sin while walking in the Spirit, and that the blood of Jesus automatically cleanses us by being our Advocate for this type of sin that doesn't require repentance (which would mean knowledge). Because the Spirit will not lead you to commit major sins, all that is left are these minor sins called trespasses unwittingly committed. We don't even know we've committed them. If we do KNOW, then that was a major offense and the Spirit would have prevented us through a super-sensitized conscience to not even go near committing them, giving us a way of escape.

You can see major sins of the flesh in Galatians 5:19-21; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; and Revelation 21:8. A true Christian does none of these. They are doomed to the lake of fire.

A major flaw is some liberal theology is that the blood of Jesus as our Advocate automatically cleanses us of major sins such as murder, stealing, even thinking lying is a minor flaw. They are not minor, and we are accountable for committing them. Without repentance, we will go to hell. Jesus as our Advocate only takes care of trespasses committed while walking in the Spirit. A key phrase used in this liberal theology is "past, present and future sins." That phrase alone shows no concept of having the seed of the Father preventing sins of the "present and future."

 

[Mark Quayle]

The right view of sin, is that sin is always wrong, and never right, and that is the right view of sin...

Now, before some of you start saying "Yeah, that's it, get those sinners" Don't be to hasty lest you forget that I am talking about people who would say that's "sins" as well... For all, ALL are sinners, and there is not exception, unless you absolutely 100% perfect, your a sinner, (hence some of my frustration with that crowd who would say that or say otherwise)...

Now, is this truly always the case, that all sin is never right and always wrong...? I must explain that I don't like those distinctions for there is/are always "exceptions"... Like someone lying to Nazi's who are hiding Jews in their house in Nazi Germany during WWII... That might be an exception... However, many try to take that or stretch that way, way to far, in and trying to justify everyone's sins, including and especially in most cases, their own, and that should not be so...

I am taking about "everyone" here, no one is excluded, whether those who would know they sin and try to justify it, or those who would completely deny their sin, and try hard to remain ignorant of it, and judge or come down on others, ect, for both are sinners and are in sin either way...

In conclusion, I would say that most of the time, a great majority of the time, almost all sin(s) are always wrong and never right, and that is the right view of sin...

Now, what do we do (about it)...? That is the question...?

I think we must all of us, get on the same page first, that we are all sinners and start from there, hopefully, "together"...

But after that...? I am open to suggestions at that/this point...

Comments...?

God Bless!

Not that the one view excludes the other, but there is a whole lot more to the matter of sin than simply right and wrong, and the need to do right. The right view of sin is God's view. Sin is incomprehensibly wrong. If it were not for the power of God, any one sin would "destroy the fabric of the space-time continuum", because it is the rebellion of the creation against the Creator.

I can hardly fathom that anything besides the self-existent Creator even can exist. But that that creation should be able to willfully turn against its Creator is too much for me to understand. But here we are. There is only one safe view of it --the Creator's view.

 

[Neogaia777]

I try to look at scripture about subjects the way God sees them. In this case - sin - there are sins unto death (major), and sins NOT unto death (minor) 1 John 5:16-17. In Numbers 15 we see a sacrifice for minor sins, unintentionally committed. But you will also note further in the same chapter, there was no sacrifice for major sins against the commandments of God, they killed them. Yes, Jesus blood takes away even major past sins, but then Jesus gives us His own Spirit so we should never have to deal with that type of sin ever again. 1 John 3:9 tells us that with that seed of the Father in us, we cannot sin. That means sins of lawlessness (major). But 1 John 1:7 shows us that we will still commit some type of sin while walking in the Spirit, and that the blood of Jesus automatically cleanses us by being our Advocate for this type of sin that doesn't require repentance (which would mean knowledge). Because the Spirit will not lead you to commit major sins, all that is left are these minor sins called trespasses unwittingly committed. We don't even know we've committed them. If we do KNOW, then that was a major offense and the Spirit would have prevented us through a super-sensitized conscience to not even go near committing them, giving us a way of escape.

You can see major sins of the flesh in Galatians 5:19-21; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; and Revelation 21:8. A true Christian does none of these. They are doomed to the lake of fire.

A major flaw is some liberal theology is that the blood of Jesus as our Advocate automatically cleanses us of major sins such as murder, stealing, even thinking lying is a minor flaw. They are not minor, and we are accountable for committing them. Without repentance, we will go to hell. Jesus as our Advocate only takes care of trespasses committed while walking in the Spirit. A key phrase used in this liberal theology is "past, present and future sins." That phrase alone shows no concept of having the seed of the Father preventing sins of the "present and future."

Let us just hope that yours and others like you's motivations and reasons behind making this distinction are really very truly truly righteous, just, holy, and truly pure and true...

I hope it is, cause I think you and those like you are on dangerous ground with it...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Hatred is an attitude of the heart and shows up in anything we do. Pride has produced some of the best craftsmen the world has ever seen.

If you think about it, all evil comes from hatred, if love is righteousness.....

Maybe..., but hatred of who/what in different cases...?

Should we have and express a hatred of unrighteousness or injustice...?

If we do, or should, I think we are walking a very thin line, shaky, unstable ground, that could all to easily fall out from under us, if were not very careful...

God Bless!

I wonder if what Jesus meant by "hating" people, your family, even your children, cannot be his disciple... (Luke 14:26)... I wonder if he meant, that your eyes are open and theirs are not, and you "hate" who and what they are or they are being, "that you think they are choosing to be" (which may not be the case)... You see, stupidity, ignorance, arrogance, and the wrong kind of hatred, envies, jealousies, ect... In short, all of the "evil", I guess you could say...

And you hate "it", but/and are trying your best not to "hate them for it"... But, your struggling and your hating either way... And your not quite sure what you hate, and as another person said, "you may hate (see) in them, what you hate (see) in you", or what "used to be in you or of you"... And that is really self-hatred isn't it, and gets in the way of love sometimes...

God Bless!

We get very frustrated, impatient, angry, and sometimes even bitter and jealous, if were to be perfectly honest, (with them) and "why" is that exactly...?

Well, that is the big, number one question now, isn't it...?

We ought to look at that/this and closely examine those "why's" in ourselves and in us... Cause they could be sin or sinful, or wrong...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I wonder if what Jesus meant by "hating" people, your family, even your children, cannot be his disciple... (Luke 14:26)... I wonder if he meant, that your eyes are open and theirs are not, and you "hate" who and what they are or they are being, "that you think they are choosing to be" (which may not be the case)... You see, stupidity, ignorance, arrogance, and the wrong kind of hatred, envies, jealousies, ect... In short, all of the "evil", I guess you could say...

And you hate "it", but/and are trying your best not to "hate them for it"... But, your struggling and your hating either way... And your not quite sure what you hate, and as another person said, "you may hate (see) in them, what you hate (see) in you", or what "used to be in you or of you"... And that is really self-hatred isn't it, and gets in the way of love sometimes...

God Bless!

We get very frustrated, impatient, angry, and sometimes even bitter and jealous, if were to be perfectly honest, (with them) and "why" is that exactly...?

Well, that is the big, number one question now, isn't it...?

We ought to look at that/this and closely examine those "why's" in ourselves and in us... Cause they could be sin or sinful, or wrong...

God Bless!

You know if we all got very blatantly and very bluntly honest "with ourselves", our eyes (and ears) would become "open", and we would truly begin to truly see and hear, and discerning the truth of scripture, and/or reconciling it's different points of view, would be and would become, very extremely "easy" indeed...

But how many are actually brave enough to do this, that is the question...

God Bless!

 

[Dave L]

I wonder if what Jesus meant by "hating" people, your family, even your children, cannot be his disciple... (Luke 14:26)... I wonder if he meant, that your eyes are open and theirs are not, and you "hate" who and what they are or they are being, "that you think they are choosing to be" (which may not be the case)... You see, stupidity, ignorance, arrogance, and the wrong kind of hatred, envies, jealousies, ect... In short, all of the "evil", I guess you could say...

And you hate "it", but/and are trying your best not to "hate them for it"... But, your struggling and your hating either way... And your not quite sure what you hate, and as another person said, "you may hate (see) in them, what you hate (see) in you", or what "used to be in you or of you"... And that is really self-hatred isn't it, and gets in the way of love sometimes...

God Bless!

We get very frustrated, impatient, angry, and sometimes even bitter and jealous, if were to be perfectly honest, (with them) and "why" is that exactly...?

Well, that is the big, number one question now, isn't it...?

We ought to look at that/this and closely examine those "why's" in ourselves and in us... Cause they could be sin or sinful, or wrong...

God Bless!

I've experienced "hating" at least two family members by removing myself and my resources from them. Cutting them off completely from any access to me. Because of their wicked and unrepentant lifestyles. I'm not divorced, but imagine it is similar to the hatred divorced people might have. Only in my case repentance on their part would restore our relationship.

 

[Neogaia777]

I've experienced "hating" at least two family members by removing myself and my resources from them. Cutting them off completely from any access to me. Because of their wicked and unrepentant lifestyles. I'm not divorced, but imagine it is similar to the hatred divorced people might have. Only in my case repentance on their part would restore our relationship.

I think I love and hate some of mine, I think... And/but love usually wins out or takes over most of the time though, in most cases... But at those times where it does not, it/me/I can be very ugly especially if I confront them openly or open my mouth right then...

And it not happening does not eliminate the bad thoughts I may have about them sometimes, but I'm trying, and I think I am doing pretty good job in trying (with a lot of help), to love them, and show them love, and my love, regardless...

But not always, and those times where I do not always and I say or do something or lash out, I can do in enough bad in a minute or two, enough damage, that will take many years of good, sometimes even decades of good, to make up for, or make up with them with/for, or get them to finally forgive me (for)...

I only wish they could know and understand this about me, but most of them just "can't", meaning they are just not able to, or even capable (of doing)... And if they could understand me/it, I wish they would not be so offended by it...

I love them, and/or I also hate them, or love them and hate them, or hate tham and love them... Heck ,I don't know at this point, I just know I am trying to do the best I can to love them and show them love, my love, the best I can...

If they could only understand this, without being greatly offended...

God Bless!

 

[LightLoveHope]

I wonder if what Jesus meant by "hating" people, your family, even your children, cannot be his disciple... (Luke 14:26)... I wonder if he meant, that your eyes are open and theirs are not, and you "hate" who and what they are or they are being, "that you think they are choosing to be" (which may not be the case)... You see, stupidity, ignorance, arrogance, and the wrong kind of hatred, envies, jealousies, ect... In short, all of the "evil", I guess you could say...

And you hate "it", but/and are trying your best not to "hate them for it"... But, your struggling and your hating either way... And your not quite sure what you hate, and as another person said, "you may hate (see) in them, what you hate (see) in you", or what "used to be in you or of you"... And that is really self-hatred isn't it, and gets in the way of love sometimes...

God Bless!

We get very frustrated, impatient, angry, and sometimes even bitter and jealous, if were to be perfectly honest, (with them) and "why" is that exactly...?

Well, that is the big, number one question now, isn't it...?

We ought to look at that/this and closely examine those "why's" in ourselves and in us... Cause they could be sin or sinful, or wrong...

God Bless!

The point you are raising is the eternal point of salvation and the Kingdom.
It centres on the heart of everyone, who we are and our emotional identity.

I used to think Jesus was not into counselling and our emotional life, but rather the asthetic and self sacrifice. Sin was behaviour we avoided, and loving was our calling, through witness and sharing His gospel.

Over the years I have come to realise a few realities.
We are a people born in love with love in our nature and heart.
We defend ourselves against hurt and pain, and shut this love out, while trying to appear nice we close down and get more and more distorted as we grow, to the point we do not know who or what we are.
Serving self becomes our only reference point, playing it safe and building on what we can grab.

Our complexity and trauma becomes our anxieties and life shattering experiences. Our building often cracks and for some totally collapses.

Some believe self analysis helps restore strength by working through trauma memories, but often this just reinforces them creating more harm.

Jesus seems to propose a different solution. Accepting our failure, lowering our defences and giving up, becoming vulnerable again, dying to everything we have learnt and been, and starting with Him to learn a new way. This means having a new heirarchy of emotional loyalty, with God and Jesus at the top, love flowing from within through the cross and service.

The traumas and complexity of our pasts get remade through loving behaviour, new pathways are established and we are transformed into new people, who behave and act differently, motivated from love and life not defence, status and selfishness. Sin has its power from the defence of the heart and letting our passions rule and define us.

So sin is the symtom of a closed heart still trying to define itself against an evil world. But by opening our hearts to God and accepting healing from Him remakes us, we are literally born again of the Holy Spirit. This is also why preaching just about sin does not work, because sin is the symtom of our heart attitude, and its hurt history. If we open up, repent and let love flow, then sin is resolved and we can begin to walk in true friendship and love with one another and God.

 

[DamianWarS]

The right view of sin, is that sin is always wrong, and never right, and that is the right view of sin...

Now, before some of you start saying "Yeah, that's it, get those sinners" Don't be to hasty lest you forget that I am talking about people who would say that's "sins" as well... For all, ALL are sinners, and there is not exception, unless you absolutely 100% perfect, your a sinner, (hence some of my frustration with that crowd who would say that or say otherwise)...

Now, is this truly always the case, that all sin is never right and always wrong...? I must explain that I don't like those distinctions for there is/are always "exceptions"... Like someone lying to Nazi's who are hiding Jews in their house in Nazi Germany during WWII... That might be an exception... However, many try to take that or stretch that way, way to far, in and trying to justify everyone's sins, including and especially in most cases, their own, and that should not be so...

I am taking about "everyone" here, no one is excluded, whether those who would know they sin and try to justify it, or those who would completely deny their sin, and try hard to remain ignorant of it, and judge or come down on others, ect, for both are sinners and are in sin either way...

In conclusion, I would say that most of the time, a great majority of the time, almost all sin(s) are always wrong and never right, and that is the right view of sin...

Now, what do we do (about it)...? That is the question...?

I think we must all of us, get on the same page first, that we are all sinners and start from there, hopefully, "together"...

But after that...? I am open to suggestions at that/this point...

Comments...?

God Bless!

Sin is that which separates us from God, yes the product of sin separates but the sin itself does too as it is by definition that which is in conflict with the desires of God. If i do something in conflict of God's desires than regardless what it is, or how noble it may seem, it is a sin.

Samuel told the the elders of Bethlehem that he was there to sacrifice a heifer, he even brought one with him. Although this was not untrue it was never his plan it was his alibi as the real reason why he was there was to commit an act of treason. So Samuel lied so he wouldn't be killed for a capital crime, to which he was guilty of, but he did so under divine authority. The act of lying itself can have divine purpose as its evident in 1 Sam 16. This certainly isn't licence to sin but the real spirit of the law as revealed by Jesus is to give glory to God in all things we do and love your neighbour as yourself. If these are truly kept then there can never be scandal or corruption, it is only God and the spirit behind it should be self evident.