• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by FineLinen, Jun 24, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    United States

    “And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:46‬ ‭ASV‬‬

    If the punishment isn’t eternal then life isn’t eternal either.

    “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21‬ ‭ASV‬‬

    Your suggesting everyone who says Lord Lord shall eventually enter the kingdom of heaven when Jesus said they will not.

    “And every one who shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Spirit it shall not be forgiven.”
    ‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:10‬ ‭ASV‬‬

    “but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin:”
    ‭‭Mark‬ ‭3:29‬ ‭ASV‬‬

    Your suggesting that either those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit will be forgiven or that they will enter heaven with unforgiven sins.
  2. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    Dear BNR: Absolute NONSENSE!

    This is your mission (should you be willing to accept it)>>>

    1. Define the koine of aionios.
    2. Define the koine of aidios.
    3. Articulate the difference.
    4. What is the purpose for punishment by a quality father?
    5. What is the definition for zoe aionios by the beloved John?
    6. Is zoe aionios time related?

    "This is zoe aionios, that we may know You & Jesus Christ.."
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  3. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    United States
    Matthew 25:46

    Matthew 25:46 uses the same exact word in both cases of eternal punishment and eternal life.

    46 καὶ (And) G2532 Conj ἀπελεύσονται (went away) G565 V-FIM-3P οὗτοι (these) G3778 DPro-NMP εἰς (into) G1519 Prep κόλασιν (punishment) G2851 N-AFS αἰώνιον (eternal) G166 Adj-AFS οἱ (the) G3588 Art-NMP δὲ (but) G1161 Conj δίκαιοι (righteous) G1342 Adj-NMP εἰς (into) G1519 Prep ζωὴν (life) G2222 N-AFS αἰώνιον (eternal) G166 Adj-AFS









    Part of Speech:





    1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

    2) without beginning

    3) without end, never to cease, everlasting


    from αἰών; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

    Occurrences in Bible:


    Occurrences in Verses:


    KJV usage:

    eternal (42x), everlasting (25x), the world began (with G5550) (2x), since the world began (with G5550) (1x), for ever (1x).
  4. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    United States
    What is the purpose for punishment by a quality father? Should I compare God to what standards I think He should submit to as a Father or accept what His word has taught since the beginning of creation? God is both kind and severe Romans 11. He is just both in rewards and punishment.

    Where is zoe aionios? I didn’t quote John.
  5. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    Dear BNR: The Father of all fathers has one purpose for punishment, and one purpose ONLY! That purpose is change and transformation. God is not only kind, His Divine essence is LOVE, from which all of His judgments flow.

    apotomia= A cutting.

    Use twice in Romans "the severity of God," which lies in His temporary retributive dealings with Israel.

    This is zoe aionios, that we may know You...
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  6. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    United States
    That’s a nice commentary but it doesn’t change what these verses specifically state in any way.
  7. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    United States
    What you are teaching is extremely dangerous my friend. Your giving people a false sense of hope that if they don’t accept Christ now they will have the option later. So let’s say that I’m wrong and universalism is true, then no one burns in the lake of fire for all eternity. No big deal, but if your wrong then you’ve given people a false hope and they will burn for all eternity in the lake of fire because they were misled into thinking they could repent after death and receive eternal life in heaven.
  8. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter


    Dear BNR: The Hope is clear. It is rooted firmly in the Author of hope. In the end, the entire Universe in all dimensions of the heavens, earth & underworld returns from whence it came: the Source, Guide and Goal of ta panta!

    What If I Am Wrong?

    FIVE MINUTE POWER MESSAGE #89: What If I’m Wrong About God Saving All? (Feat. Rev. Peter Hiett) – Phil Henry Power Gospel
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  9. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. R. F. Weymouth

    Eternal: Greek: "aeonion," i.e., "of the ages." Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed, does not signify "during," but "belong to" the aeons or ages."

    The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (vol. IV, p. 643)

    Time: The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the conception of eternity as timelessness. The O.T. has not developed a special term for "eternity." The word aion originally meant "vital force," "life," then "age," "lifetime."

    Elliot's Commentary on the Whole Bible (Matt. 25:46)

    Everlasting punishment--life eternal. The two adjectives represent the same Greek word, aionios-it must be admitted that the Greek word which is rendered "eternal" does not, in itself, involve endlessness, but rather, duration, whether through an age or succession of ages, and that it is therefore applied in the N.T. to periods of time that have had both a beginning and ending (Rom. 16:25).

    Hasting's Dictionary of the New Testament (Vol. I, p. 542, art. Christ and the Gospels)

    Eternity. There is no word either in the O.T. Hebrew or the N.T. Greek to express the abstract idea of eternity. (Vol. III, p. 369): Eternal, everlasting-nonetheless "eternal" is misleading, inasmuch as it has come in the English to connote the idea of "endlessly existing," and thus to be practically a synonym for "everlasting." But this is not an adequate rendering of aionios which varies in meaning with the variations of the noun aion from which it comes. (p. 370):

    The chronoios aioniois moreover, are not to be thought of as stretching backward everlastingly, as it is proved by the pro chronon aionion of II Tim. 1:9; Titus. 1:2. (Note: pro chronon aionion means "BEFORE times eonian." Since this Scripture tells us that there was time "before" eonian, eionian cannot possibly mean eternal, for nothing can be "before" eternity.)

    The large Catholic Bible dictionary, The Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Bible (p. 693)

    ETERNITY: The Bible hardly speaks of eternity in the philosophical sense of infinite duration without beginning or end. The Hebrew word olam, which is used alone (Ps. 61:8; etc.) or with various prepositions (Gen. 3:22; etc.) in contexts where it is traditionally translated as 'forever,' means in itself no more than 'for an indefinitely long period." Thus me olam does not mean 'from eternity' but 'of old' Gen. 6:4; etc.). In the N.T. aion is used as the equivalent of olam. (Note: even the Catholic translators of The Jerusalem Bible and The New American Bible have failed to heed the scholarship of their own Catholic authorities.)

    Dr. R. F. Weymouth, a translator who was adept in Greek, states in The New Testament in Modern Speech (p. 657)

    Eternal, Greek aeonion, i.e., of the ages: Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed does not signify, "during" but "belonging to" the aeons or ages.

    Dr. Marvin Vincent, Word Studies of the New Testament (Vol. IV, p. 59).

    The adjective aionios in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective in themselves carries the sense of "endless" or "everlasting.' Anionios means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time.

    Dr. F. W. Farrar, author of The Life of Christ and The Life and Word of St. Paul, as well as books about Greek grammar and syntax, writes in The Eternal Hope (p. 198)

    In Dr. Farrar's book, Mercy and Judgment, (p. 378)

    "Since aion meant 'age,' aionios means, properly, 'belonging to an age,' or 'age-long,' and anyone who asserts that it must mean 'endless' defends a position which even Augustine practically abandoned twelve centuries ago. Even if aion always meant 'eternity,' which is not the case in classic or Hellenistic Greek- aionios could still mean only 'belonging to eternity' and not 'lasting through it."

    The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, (Vol. 4, p. 641)

    "The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the concept of eternity as timelessness." Page 655: "The O.T. has not developed a special term for eternity." Page 645: "The use of the word aion in the N.T. is determined very much by the O.T. and the LXX. Aion means long, distant, uninterrupted time. The intensifying plural occurs frequently in the N.T. but it adds no new meaning."

    Dr. Edward Plumptre, an eschatologist

    "I fail to find, as is used by the Greek Fathers, any instance in which the idea of time duration is unlimited."

    Time and Eternity by G. T. Stevenson, (p. 63)

    "Since, as we have seen, the noun aion refers to a period of time it appears, very improbable that the derived adjective aionios would indicate infinite duration, nor have we found any evidence in Greek writing to show that such a concept was expressed by this term."

    Professor Herman Oldhausen, German Lutheran theologian

    "The Bible has no expression for endlessness. All the Biblical terms imply or denote long periods."

    Professor Knappe of Halle wrote

    "The Hebrew was destitute of any single word to express endless duration. The pure idea of eternity is not found in any of the ancient languages."

    An Alphabetical Analysis by Charles H. Welch (Editor of The Berean Expositor and a man well versed in Greek), (Vol. 1, p. 279)

    "Eternity is not a Biblical theme." (Vol. 1, p. 52), "What we have to learn is that the Bible does not speak of eternity. It is not written to tell us of eternity. Such a consideration is entirely outside the scope of revelation."

    Dr. Mangey, a translator of the writings of Philo, says

    "Philo did not use aionios to express endless duration."

    The Complete Works of Falvius Josephus.

    Josephus obviously did not consider anionios to be "everlasting," seeing that he uses the word to represent the period of time between the giving of the law of Moses and that of his own writing [clearly not an eternity] . He also assigns aionios to the period of imprisonment of the tyrant John by the Romans [clearly he was not imprisoned for an eternity] , and also for the period during which Herod's temple stood [since Herod's temple was not even standing at the time Josephus wrote, it too proves that Josephus did not mean 'eternity' when he wrote 'aionios'] .

    Saint Gregory of Nyssa speaks of anionios diastema

    "an eonian interval." How many intervals do you know of that are "endless" or "eternal?"

    Saint Chrysostum, in his homily on Eph. 2:1-3

    "Satan's kingdom is aeonian; that is, it will cease with the present world."

    Saint Justin Martyr, in the Apol. (p. 57)

    Used the word aionios repeatedly: aionion kolasin...all ouchi chiliontaete periodon, "eonian chastening but a period, not a thousand years," or as some translate this clause "but a period of a thousand years only." Hence, to Justin Martyr, aionios was certainly not "endless."

    Dr. O.B. Jenkins

    Time or Character, The Ages or A Time Sequence in <em>aionios</em>: How Words "Mean" in Greek and English
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  10. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

    United States
    Every verse can be settled with one easy answer. READ MORE TRANSLATIONS than the one that lines up with lies of the orthodox scribes of the great apostasy.

    JER 8:8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

    This scriptural truth has not changed with the NT BN. We've proven that here many times.
    I'm going to suggest you must not remember for very long. This same question posed by you back in post 3237 was dealt with. And along the way you never responded to the 6 schools of theology proving our position LIKE YOU SAID YOU WOULD in 3250. So much for 'your word being true' it appears. But then you never responded to me PROVING you were wrong in 3254 when you said the church fathers never supported UR/UNI. NO COMMENT on that entire post of quotes BN. You've proven your resistance to the truth by complete absence of response, more than once now. So chasing you around the mulberry bush AGAIN isn't going to help. We saw Steve do the same thing. I believe he would agree that it all changed when he repented and allowed the Holy Spirit to work in him. And he is older than you, steeped in his theology way longer than you. And guess what he found? A 20 minute video by a GREEK SCHOLAR on your favored verse above in Matt 25. Can you spend 20 minutes to learn something of 'true' ETERNAL VALUE? I did, just to check up on what Steve was finding.

    You and JUDE would both do well to watch this video. It would prove you really do care about truth and not just defending your doctrinal sandbox by throwing sand in everyone's eyes, so we can squint and agree with what you see as the truth.

    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  11. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  12. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    United States
    I’m not familiar with any of these bible dictionaries and I don’t read people’s commentaries. Why don’t quote the lexicon sources that the majority of Christianity use like Vine’s or Strong’s? Did the Orthodox Church (Apostolic Greek Church) get the definition wrong as well?

    What do Greek dictionaries say about "aionion"?

    Universalists place a great deal of weight on the word "aion," which means "age." From the Greek root "aion" we also have the word "aionion," which is translated in most instances in most Bibles as "eternal."

    The significance of this is that Universalists maintain that there is no eternal punishment in hellfire. Therefore, they assert that the word "aionion" is in reference to "age duration” and can have temporal duration. With this assertion, they try to substantiate their theological position that all people everywhere will ultimately be saved.

    But, what do Greek Dictionaries and Lexicons have to say about the words and phrases used in Greek that are translated into the English "age," "world," "eternal," "forever," "forever and ever," etc.? Let's find out:

    1. aion - [​IMG], - age, world
      1. "for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity; the worlds, universe; period of time, age."1
    2. aionion, aionios - [​IMG] - eternal
      1. "aionios," the adjective corresponding, denoting eternal. It is used of that which in nature is endless, as, e.g., of God, (Rom. 16:26), His power, (1 Tim. 6:16), His glory, (1 Pet. 5:10), the Holy Spirit, (Heb. 9:14), redemption, (Heb. 9:12), salvation, (5:9), life in Christ, (John 3:16), the resurrection body, (2 Cor. 5:1), the future rule of Christ, (2 Pet. 1:11), which is declared to be without end, (Luke 1:33), of sin that never has forgiveness, (Mark 3:29), the judgment of God, (Heb. 6:2), and of fire, one of its instruments, (Matt. 18:8; 25:41; Jude 7)."
        1. Rom. 16:26 - " . . .according to the commandment of the eternal God. . ."
        2. 1 Tim. 6:16 - ". . . To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen."
        3. 1 Pet. 5:10 - " . . . who called you to His eternal glory in Christ,"
        4. Mark 3:29 - " . . . never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin."
        5. etc.2
    3. "describes duration, either undefined but not endless, as in Rom. 16:25; 2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 1:2; or undefined because endless as in Rom. 16:26, and the other sixty–six places in the N.T.
      1. Rom. 16:25 - " . . which has been kept secret for long ages past,"
      2. Rom 16:26 - ". . . according to the commandment of the eternal God,"
      3. 2 Tim. 1:9 - ". . . which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,"
      4. Titus 1:2 - "the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised" long ages ago"3
    4. Eis tous aionios ton aionion - [​IMG] - Forever and Ever, Lit. "into the age of the ages"
      1. "unlimited duration of time, with particular focus upon the future - ‘always, forever, forever and ever, eternally."
      2. Phil. 4:20 - ". . .to our God and Father be the glory forever and ever."
      3. Rev. 19:3 - " . . .Her smoke rises up forever and ever."
      4. Rev. 20:10 - "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."4
    These few references and quotes should be ample evidence that eternal hell, eternal fire, is real. It is a terrible reality, and it is all the more important to preach the gospel. The Universalists are wrong, and their theology only dilutes the need to come to Christ.

    • 1.Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, 1995.
    • 2.Vine, W. E., Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, Grand Rapids, MI: Fleming H. Revell, 1981. Available: Logos Library System.
    • 3.Ibid.
    • 4.Louw, J. P. and Eugene A. Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains, New York: United Bible Societies, 1989.
  13. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    United States
    This is why I don’t pay attention to commentaries.

    Jesus is not the Messiah
    Why Jesus Is Not The Jewish Messiah - Jews for Judaism

    There is no such thing as sin
    The real good news! (No such thing as sin)

    There is no Trinity
    50 Reasons why the Bible doesn't mention TRINITY

    Jesus was a sinner
    Jesus the sinner

    If you look hard enough you could probably find a commentary that says Jesus is a purple buffalo with red stripes and golden wings. Doesn’t mean it’s true.
  14. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

    United States
    Reposting this since people are still arguing that aion does not mean eternity and aionios does not mean eternal"In the following twenty three [23] verses αἰών and αἰώνιος are defined/described, by comparison or contrast with other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as eternal, everlasting etc.:
    …..In the NT “aion/aionios” refer to things which are not eternal but neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, as in the following verses.
    [1]Romans 1:20
    (20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [ἀΐ́διος/aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    [2]Romans 16:26
    (26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
    In Romans 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
    [3]Luke 1:33
    (33) And he shall reign [βασιλευσει][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [αιωνας/aionas] and of his kingdom [βασιλειας][Nn] there shall be no end.[τελος/τελος]
    In this verse the reign βασιλευσει/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom βασιλειας/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.
    [4]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
    (17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] weight of glory;
    (18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[πρόσκαιρος/proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios]
    In this passage “aionios” is contrasted with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” a indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [5]2 Corinthians 5:1
    (1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] in the heavens.
    In this verse “aionios house” is contrasted with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with an ages long house which will also be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [6]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [αἰών/aion] he has an unchangeable [ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos] priesthood.
    In this verse “aion” is paired with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [7]1 Peter 1:23
    (23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …

    1 Peter 1:25
    (25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[αἰών/aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.
    In verse 23 “word of God” is paired with “imperishable.” In verse 25 the word of God “endures εις τον αιωνα unto eternity. ” Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity.”
    [8]1 Timothy 6:16
    (16) Who only hath immortality, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios]
    In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
    [9]Galatians 6:8
    (8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [φθορά/fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [αἰώνιος/aionios]
    In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
    [10]John 6:58
    (58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]
    In this verse “aionios life” is contrasted with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [11]John 10:28
    (28) And I give unto them eternal [αιωνιον] life; and they shall never [εις τον αιωνα] perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    Here “aionios” and “aion” are paired with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
    [12]1 John 2:17
    (17) The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever. [αἰών/aion]
    In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “pass away,” “lives aionios” cannot mean a finite period, A “finite period” is not opposite of “pass away.” Thus “lives aionios” by definition here means “lives eternally.”
    [13]1 Peter 5:10
    (10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [ολιγον/oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.
    In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “little while” Does Jesus give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die? Thus “aionios” here means “eternal.”
    [14]Romans 2:7
    (7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [ἀφθαρσία/apftharsia] he will give eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.
    In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers cannot seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”
    [15]1 Timothy 1:17.
    (17) Now unto the King eternal, [αἰών/aion] immortal, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [αἰών/aion] and ever [αἰώνιος/aionios]. Amen.
    In this verse “aion” is paired with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and be immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [16]Revelation 14:11
    (11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[ εις αιωνας αιωνων/eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
    In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paired with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”
    [17]John 10:28
    (28) And I give unto them eternal [αιωνιον] life; and they shall never [εις τον αιωνα] perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    In this verse “aionion” and “aiona” are paired with “[no man can] “pluck them out of my hand” If “aionion” and “aiona” are only a finite period then at some time they could be plucked out. “Aionion” and “aiona” by definition here mean eternal.
    [18]John 3:15
    (15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
    In this verse “aionion” is paired with “shall not perish.” Believers could perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal life.
    [19]John 3:16
    (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.
    In this verse “aionion” is paired with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal or everlasting life.
    [20]John 5:24
    (24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
    In this verse “aionios” is paired with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from life unto death.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
    [21]Romans 5:21
    (21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [αἰώνιος] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
    In this verse “aionios life” is contrasted with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death, “eternal life” is. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
    [22]Ephesians 3:21
    (21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [του αιωνος/tou aionios] and ever! [των αιωνων/ton aionion] Amen.
    In this verse “tou aionios ton aionion” is paired with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
    [23]John 8:51
    (51) Very truly [αμην αμην/amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiona] see death."
    According to noted Greek scholar Marvin Vincent "The double negative “ou mé” signifies in nowise, by no means." Unless Jesus is saying they will die, i.e. see death, unto the age. By definition aion means eternity.
  15. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    United States
    Not to mention that there are verses that don’t include any given time like Luke 12:10 and Matthew 7:21.

    “And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him.”
    ‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:10‬ ‭NASB

    “"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21‬ ‭NASB‬‬
  16. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    United States
    Hello FL. Long time no see. :wave:
    Have you seen the videos below that discusses those Greek words you posted in conjunction with the "present age" and "coming age/age to come"?

    Also note that Matthew 24 of the 70ad Olivet Discourse uses singular "age", while the author of Hebrews uses "ages". Just thought that was interesting

    Matt 24:3 "full end/consummation of the age"

    Matthew 24:3
    Of-sitting yet of Him upon the Mount of the Olives, toward-came to Him the disciples according part/to-own saying, "Be telling to us when these shall be? And what the sign of Thy parousiaV <3952> and the full-consummation/sun-teleiaV<5055> <4930> of the Age?"
    Hebrews 9:26
    Since it was binding Him many-times to be suffering from according-casting of world, now yet once upon full-consummation/sun-teleia <4930> of the Ages<165> into putting-away of Sin, thru the Sacrifice of Him, He has been manifested.
    1Ti 6:17
    Those rich in the present age charge thou not to be high-minded, nor to hope in the uncertainty of riches, but in the living God, who is giving to us all things richly for enjoyment; --
    2Ti 4:10
    for Demas forsook me, having loved the present age, and went on to Thessalonica, Crescens to Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia,
    Tit 2:12
    teaching us, that denying the impiety and the worldly desires, soberly and righteously and piously we may live in the present age,
    Luk 18:30
    who may not receive back manifold more in this time, and in the coming age, life age-during.'
    Heb 6:5
    and did taste the good saying of God, the powers also of the coming age,
    The article "the" is not used in Reve 14:11 "ages to ages". Any significance to that?

    Smoke of them and Her ascending forever - Revelation

    Revelation 14:11

    And the smoke of the tormenting of them is ascending into Ages to-Ages. And not they are having Rest/anapausin <372> day and night [Matt 11:29/Hebrew 4:3]
    Revelation 19:3
    And a second-time they have declared "allelouia! and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".

    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  17. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    United States

    Anathema to Sabbath-keepers - Council of Laodicea

    331. anathema from 394; a (religious) ban or (concretely) excommunicated (thing or person):--accused, anathema, curse, X great.
    334. anathema from 394 (like 331, but in a good sense); a votive offering:--gift
    332. anathematizo from 331; to declare or vow under penalty of execration:--(bind under a) curse, bind with an oath.

    Genesis 1:1 (YLT)
    Strong's Number G331ἀνάθεμα (anathema), which occurs 6 times in 6 verses

    Acts 23:14
    Who-any toward coming to the Chief-priests and to the Elders say "to-anathema/anaqemati <331> We anathematize/aneqematisamen <332> (5656) ourselves of no yet nothing to taste till of which we may be killing the Paul.

    Rom 9:3
    for I was wishing, I myself, to be anathema from the Christ -- for my brethren, my kindred, according to the flesh,

    Gal 1:8
    but even if we or a messenger out of heaven may proclaim good news to you different from what we did proclaim to you -- anathema let him be!
    as we have said before, and now say again, If any one to you may proclaim good news different from what ye did receive -- anathema let him be!

    Reve 22:3
    and every anathema/kat-anaqema <2652> not shall be still. And the throne of the God and of the Lambkin in Her shall be, and His bond-servants shall be offering divine-service to Him.
    Hebrew equivalent....

    2763 charam khaw-ram' a primitive root; to seclude; secifically (by a ban) to devote to religious uses (especially destruction); (utterly) destroy, physical and reflexive, to be blunt as to the nose:--make accursed, consecrate, devote, forfeit, have a flat nose, utterly (slay, make away)
    2764 cherem khay'-rem or (Zecheriah 14:11) cherem {kheh'-rem}; from 2763; physical (as shutting in) a net (either literally or figuratively); usually a doomed object; devoted (thing),abstr. extermination:--(ac-)curse(-d, -d thing), dedicated thing, things which should have been utterly destroyed, (appointed to) utter destruction,

    History of God's Holy Bible and the so-called Jews
    The Hebrew word translated "utterly destroy" is 'cherem.' Both the people and the land of Canaan were 'cherem,' meaning FORCIBLY dedicated to God as withdrawn from His service and worship wherein He was not glorified, and by the hands of another, devoted to Him for destruction whereby He will be glorified. The equivalent Greek word is "anathema." In the case of the Canaanites who were natural Serpent's seed, cherem is the consecration to God of His enemies (Hebrew "hated ones" - Isaiah 34:1-8; Malachi 1:2-3; Romans 9:13), and their belongings by means of fire and sword

    God commissioned Joshua, "Be strong and very courageous, that you may observe to do according to all the Law, which Moses My servant commanded you: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that you may prosper wheresoever you go. This Book of the Law shall not depart out of your mouth; but you shall meditate therein day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then you shall make your way prosperous, and have good success" (Joshua 1:7-8).

    This man of God was deceived by these accursed people when he made a covenant with them without first consulting the Lord (Joshua 9). Ezra, Nehemiah, Obadiah, Malachi and the other prophets describe how the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob intermarried through "multiculturalism." Later, in AD740, the nation of Khazaria was converted overnight and inducted into Jewry by Talmudic Jews from Babylon.

    Every Jewish historian of note, and all encyclopaedias, Jewish and otherwise, agree that only a tiny remnant of so-called Jews is Semitic. None of these possess the faith of Abraham and few worship according to Yahweh Torah instituted by Moses. The few who are not atheistic or agnostic mostly follow Talmudic Judaism which is Pharisaism and anathema to Moses and the prophets.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  18. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

    United States
    Anyone here who thinks he is a Greek scholar and knows how to "parse the Greek", should just watch any of the videos we've presented here and tell our side just how you refute them. Otherwise your 'cut and paste' theology is just repeating over and over, what the kool aid mixers have always made you drink/think.

    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  19. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    My friend: It is always a joy beholding you! Much thanks for video Lesson 43, I like it very much.

    Is your flying contraption still running? Thank you for landing again to see us!
  20. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.