The Relationship Between the "Soul" and the Brain?

Jaedan

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Hi, I have a quick question.

What do you believe is the relationship between the "soul" and the brain?

Usually, the "soul" of a human being is described as someone's overall personality, character, etc. How does this "soul" connect to someone's brain? Is the brain just an instrument that someone's "soul" uses to express itself?
 
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HappyHope

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Hi, I have a quick question.

What do you believe is the relationship between the "soul" and the brain?

Usually, the "soul" of a human being is described as someone's overall personality, character, etc. How does this "soul" connect to someone's brain? Is the brain just an instrument that someone's "soul" uses to express itself?
Great question! I don't think I've heard a truly satisfying answer to this yet.
 
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NBB

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The soul is heart and mind and reasoning and feelings, the heart is like the center of our person.
I personally believe the brain has no 'intelligence' 'attached' to it.
That your 'smarts' are all from the soul. But the brain is important to make everything work.
 
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lsume

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Hi, I have a quick question.

What do you believe is the relationship between the "soul" and the brain?

Usually, the "soul" of a human being is described as someone's overall personality, character, etc. How does this "soul" connect to someone's brain? Is the brain just an instrument that someone's "soul" uses to express itself?
My personal experience is that the brain doesn’t connect without the persons spirit. The problem is that people think that the flesh is them.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Hi, I have a quick question.

What do you believe is the relationship between the "soul" and the brain?

Usually, the "soul" of a human being is described as someone's overall personality, character, etc. How does this "soul" connect to someone's brain? Is the brain just an instrument that someone's "soul" uses to express itself?
In my humble opinion.....The brain is flesh. The soul is spirit, in essence the same. I honestly dont think one has anything to do with the other. God made man in His image so our spirit/ soul connects with His Holy Spirit not our brain.
FYI....
Animals also have a brain yet they do not have a spirit because they are not made in God's image.
 
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NBB

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In my humble opinion.....The brain is flesh. The soul is spirit, in essence the same. I honestly dont think one has anything to do with the other. God made man in His image so our spirit/ soul connects with His Holy Spirit not our brain.
FYI....
Animals also have a brain yet they do not have a spirit because they are not made in God's image.

But for example, autistic people when their brain was scanned showed some areas were different than others, like if thinking in some different way could make the brain different, and it seem it does, i think our soul 'grabs' our body, and exercising in some reasoning etc produce different 'brain' 'patterns'. So is like soul and brain are working together.

see 8:20.
 
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jayem

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As my avatar notes, I'm a naturalist. To me, there is no supernatural entity that some would call a soul. One's personality, thought processes, emotions, beliefs, memories, judgement, and all mental functions are purely products of the brain. They all result from the firing of complex neuronal pathways. Consider Alzheimer’s disease. A buildup of beta-amyloid protein in the brain, causing plaques and tangling of neurons, can radically alter one’s personality and other mental functions. The same is true of drugs that interfere with neurotransmitters. Along with other conditions like schizophrenia, the bipolar disorders, and head trauma. If a “soul” exists, what happens to it in these situations? It doesn’t quite make sense that a transcendent supernatural entity which underlies the essence of our being, would be cancelled, stymied, or unable to express itself because of a physically damaged or malfunctioning brain.
 
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mmarco

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As my avatar notes, I'm a naturalist. To me, there is no supernatural entity that some would call a soul..

As a physicist I know very well that cosnciousness is irreducibe to cerebral processes, which means that our conscious mind cannot be generated by the brain. In fact, according to our scientific knowledges, all chemical and biological processes (including cerebral processes) are caused by the electromagnetic interaction between subatomic particles such as electrons and protons. Quantum mechanics accounts for such interactions, as well as for the properties of subatomic particles. The point is that there is no trace of consciousness, sensations, emotions, etc. in the laws of quantum mechanics (as well as in all the laws of physcis). Consciousness is irreducible to the laws of physics, while all cerebral processes are, which is sufficient to prove that consciousness is irreducible to cerebral processes and that cerebral processes cannot be identified as the cause of consciousness. It should also be considered that brain processes consist of billions of sequences of elementary processes that take place in different points of the brain; if we attributed to these processes the property of consciousness, we would have to associate with the brain billions of different minds and personalities. The basic assumption of materialism (which identifies cerebral processes as the origin of consciousness) is then contradicted by this fundamental scientific result, i.e. the irreducibility of consciousness to cerebral processes. This result represents the most strong argument in favour of the existence of the soul, as the unphysical and trascendent principle necessary for the existence of our consciousness.
Our mind is the result of the interaction between the soul and the brain. In fact, if there were no interaction between the soul and the brain, our mind would be totally isolated from the external world and we could not even comunicate with other people.
 
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com7fy8

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the relationship between the "soul" and the brain
Yeah, I go with that idea about the brain being physical and our soul being spiritual.

Our spiritual activity can effect our brain, though, I would say. Plus, if things start happening in our brains, our soul might react to what is happening. And how we react is connected with our real character.

So, when someone's brain is damaged, a kind and caring person might react to that in a kind and caring way. While someone who has been growing into more and more of a negative and insecure person might come out very nasty as the person's physical brain changes so the person can't control and have his or her own way, any more.

There are people who have been very charming so everyone supposes they are really nice people. But if they get to where they can not have their own way . . . things can change. So, I see this could be why certain people with brain changes can go quite downhill in nastiness . . . when they can't have their independence which they worship like an idol.

So, I know I am not perfectly kind and stable and secure; so I pray for God to deeply correct my character so I can not become abusive in case something happens to my brain health in older age. And I trust God to decide if and how He has me remember things . . . so it does not depend only on the condition of my brain.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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But for example, autistic people when their brain was scanned showed some areas were different than others, like if thinking in some different way could make the brain different, and it seem it does, i think our soul 'grabs' our body, and exercising in some reasoning etc produce different 'brain' 'patterns'. So is like soul and brain are working together.

see 8:20.
Yes they work together only in terms of a home ( the heart) for the soul/ spirit. Jesus Christ of Nazareth said He " makes His Home in us" when we belive and receive His Comforter. This is the connection of His Spirit to our spirit. The brain will one day die whereas our Spirit will live on.
 
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Yeah, I go with that idea about the brain being physical and our soul being spiritual.

Our spiritual activity can effect our brain, though, I would say. Plus, if things start happening in our brains, our soul might react to what is happening. And how we react is connected with our real character.

So, when someone's brain is damaged, a kind and caring person might react to that in a kind and caring way. While someone who has been growing into more and more of a negative and insecure person might come out very nasty as the person's physical brain changes so the person can't control and have his or her own way, any more.

There are people who have been very charming so everyone supposes they are really nice people. But if they get to where they can not have their own way . . . things can change. So, I see this could be why certain people with brain changes can go quite downhill in nastiness . . . when they can't have their independence which they worship like an idol.

So, I know I am not perfectly kind and stable and secure; so I pray for God to deeply correct my character so I can not become abusive in case something happens to my brain health in older age. And I trust God to decide if and how He has me remember things . . . so it does not depend only on the condition of my brain.

How then, do you explain the phenomenon of those that have had a complete personality change due to a severe head injury?
 
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com7fy8

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How then, do you explain the phenomenon of those that have had a complete personality change due to a severe head injury?
I of course do not personally know who you are talking about.

In the case of obviously negative changes > I think it could be connected with the person's real character. People can change in very negative ways, even without physically damaging things happening to them.

The one you marry can turn out to have a very different personality, than what you supposed you were seeing before getting pronounced. On we could go. Therefore, someone having the same character can show extremely different personalities, even without any injuries. The sweetie in public can be a tyrant at home, right?

But in general > there are people who never have committed themselves to being gentle and humble and unconditionally loving, like Jesus. And so their personalities are weak . . . deeply weak . . . and unstable so they can go through temporary or long-term changes more or less severe.

You have seen how a person's personality can change quite a lot, simply if he or she does not get his or her own way. So, in the case of a very negative change . . . maybe it is something like this?

But what if a kind and caring person takes a hard hit? I would say the person's new personality would be kind and caring, even if greatly different . . . if the person's character was genuine and the person was not putting on an act. And the reason for the very different outwardly-acting personality could be simply because the person's memory has been altered so the person is not remembering his or her ways from before the accident. May be, for instance, the person might become more talkative because he or she forgot that others in the family were the ones who usually did most of the talking while they are together; yet, the injured one is still kind and caring.

But, like I say, I don't know each person. But I understand that when God makes your character His way, it stays this way.
 
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jayem

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As a physicist I know very well that cosnciousness is irreducibe to cerebral processes, which means that our conscious mind cannot be generated by the brain. In fact, according to our scientific knowledges, all chemical and biological processes (including cerebral processes) are caused by the electromagnetic interaction between subatomic particles such as electrons and protons. Quantum mechanics accounts for such interactions, as well as for the properties of subatomic particles. The point is that there is no trace of consciousness, sensations, emotions, etc. in the laws of quantum mechanics (as well as in all the laws of physcis). Consciousness is irreducible to the laws of physics, while all cerebral processes are, which is sufficient to prove that consciousness is irreducible to cerebral processes and that cerebral processes cannot be identified as the cause of consciousness. It should also be considered that brain processes consist of billions of sequences of elementary processes that take place in different points of the brain; if we attributed to these processes the property of consciousness, we would have to associate with the brain billions of different minds and personalities.

You're entitled to your beliefs. But more and more, it is becoming clear that consciousness is entirely a function of neuronal activity. I'll give you a couple of references:

A Universe of Consciousness. By Gerald Edelman and Giulio Tononi. (The former, now deceased, is a Nobel Prize winner in immunology, who switched his research into neuroscience.) An older work, ca. 2001, supporting the concept that consciousness is a emergent property of neural networks. Any such network of sufficient complexity, that also has sensory receptors to continually input information regarding its environment, and a mechanism to process, store, and retrieve such information will have some level of cognition and self-awareness. Which is what consciousness it.

A Universe of Consciousness: How Matter Becomes Imagination by Gerald M. Edelman

A more recent work documenting increasing evidence that consciousness is a biological phenomenon.

The neural basis of consciousness | Psychological Medicine | Cambridge Core

It's been known for some time that activity in the reticular formation (AKA the reticular activating system, RAS) located in the pons and medulla, is critically involved in consciousness and sleep/wake functions. Damage to this area can result in irreversible coma. I'm sure you'd agree that consciousness requires a functional brain. It does not exist by itself. Consider anesthesia: I have a history of colon polyps--all fortunately benign. Every 3 years, I get a screening colonoscopy. Right before the procedure, I get a slug of propofol injected into my IV line. With 15 seconds or so, I'm out like a light. No awareness, no feeling, no sensation at all. Oblivion. My consciousness is totally turned off. This happens because propofol augments the action of gamma-aminobutyrate. Which is the primary inhibitory neurotrasnmitter in the CNS. gamma-AB blocks neuronal activity, especially in the RAS. When its effect is heightened, unconsciousness results. So if consciousness can exist independently of the brain, then why would general anesthesia work?

The basic assumption of materialism (which identifies cerebral processes as the origin of consciousness) is then contradicted by this fundamental scientific result, i.e. the irreducibility of consciousness to cerebral processes. This result represents the most strong argument in favour of the existence of the soul, as the unphysical and trascendent principle necessary for the existence of our consciousness.

Is a soul really necessary for consciousness? Theology is somewhat off-topic in this thread. But I've always heard religious believers claim that animals don't have souls. But no should doubt that many animals are certainly conscious.
 
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andreha

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Ok, I'm a bit weird, but I see the brain just as something that takes care of the body. Stuff like consciousness, memory, personality and all that defines who you are comes from the soul. If you leave this world, you still have all your senses, memories and feelings.
 
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jayem

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Ok, I'm a bit weird, but I see the brain just as something that takes care of the body. Stuff like consciousness, memory, personality and all that defines who you are comes from the soul.

Some questions: A 90 year old man with Alzheimer's disease can't remember what he did yesterday. Is his memory loss due to a sick brain, or a sick soul? A young woman with Bipolar 1 disorder is upbeat, energetic, and self confident. She barely sleeps more than a few hours, and isn't the least bit tired. 2 weeks later, she feels empty, hopeless, and at times, suicidal. Is this a neurologic or a spiritual problem? An OCD patient has a hand-washing compulsion. The skin on his hands is so inflamed, cracked, and painful, he can barely hold a toothbrush. (I saw a patient with exactly this problem.) Aside from a dermatologist, does he need psychiatric care, or religious counseling?
 
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CatsRule2020

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It is difficult to determine the 'soul' from the 'spirit' in my opinion. We know that the brain is not the mind, but if the brain becomes altered, does it impact one's mind? Even though we say that if a person takes drugs long enough they could lose their 'mind'. It is a figure of speech we use, I know.
As far as Dementia, I do not think that it alters one's 'mind or 'spirit' it is the degeneration of one's brain matter.
“For who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”

"But we have the mind of Christ." 1 Cor. 2:16
 
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Ok, I'm a bit weird, but I see the brain just as something that takes care of the body. Stuff like consciousness, memory, personality and all that defines who you are comes from the soul. If you leave this world, you still have all your senses, memories and feelings.

Talk to someone with Alzheimers, or who is coming out of Twilight anesthesia, and you'll see that argument refuted.
 
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andreha

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Some questions: A 90 year old man with Alzheimer's disease can't remember what he did yesterday. Is his memory loss due to a sick brain, or a sick soul? A young woman with Bipolar 1 disorder is upbeat, energetic, and self confident. She barely sleeps more than a few hours, and isn't the least bit tired. 2 weeks later, she feels empty, hopeless, and at times, suicidal. Is this a neurologic or a spiritual problem? An OCD patient has a hand-washing compulsion. The skin on his hands is so inflamed, cracked, and painful, he can barely hold a toothbrush. (I saw a patient with exactly this problem.) Aside from a dermatologist, does he need psychiatric care, or religious counseling?

I think you got me there - I certainly don't claim to know everything. It's sad to see folks suffer...
 
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Hi, I have a quick question.

What do you believe is the relationship between the "soul" and the brain?
Yes it is a relationship, however it is also a distinction. Similar to how you would have both a relationship and a distinction between fire and smoke.
Usually, the "soul" of a human being is described as someone's overall personality, character, etc. How does this "soul" connect to someone's brain? Is the brain just an instrument that someone's "soul" uses to express itself?
The “Soul” in an Aristotelian sense simply means absolutely everything that is intelligible about an entity. The soul of a tree would be a detailed list of all of its intelligible properties. Likewise the soul of Jaedan would be an exhaustive list of absolutely every single descriptive thing that could possibly be known about Jaedan. Your “Soul” consists of your hair color, your height, blood type, temperament, fears, things that embarrass you, that strange mixture of feelings that you have towards your ex…simply every single describable thing there could possibly be about you.

Human beings possess “Intelligible descriptions about them” that spill outside of the explanatory scope of objective scientific analysis because they include a private subjective aspect to them. People often overrate their “Appeal to common experience” and pretend that objective scientific explanations tells us way more about a person’s Soul than it really does. If Jaedan is embarrassed, or in pain, or recalling the taste of pineapple, there is no objective access to that whatsoever, the best that any individual scientist can do is recall their OWN experiences and from that use an appeal to common experience to infer “Jaedan’s experiences” of embarrassment or his taste of pineapple (from their own related experiences). It is a subjective inference disguised as “An objective fact among scientists.” Do you see the difference?

The “Soul” is absolutely every intelligible explanation about an entity, so “The soul” would include every single description that a neurologist could objectively tell you about your brain, however in addition to all of that it would also include descriptions such as the feeling that you had when you saw your first child being born, or the dreadful experience of a room spinning after you drank too much accompanied by the feeling of swearing that you’ll never let yourself get like that again, etc. Phenomenal experiences are an altogether different fabric of reality than objective scientific descriptions are. “The Soul” is that which exhaustively describes absolutely all of it.
 
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