The Reality of Sorcerers, Witches and Magic from Bible Scriptures and Church Fathers

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

(Long Read)


But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, Sorcerers, idolaters,
and all liars Shall Have Their Part In The Lake Which Burns With Fire And Brimstone, which is the second death."
• Revelation 21:8

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and Sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
• Revelation 22:14-15


But Elymas The Sorcerer withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith.
• Acts 13:8


But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously Practiced Sorcery in the city and astonished the people of Samaria, claiming that he was someone great,
• Acts 8:9

• The Death of Simon Magus
From : Simon Magus - Wikipedia

• Cyril of Jerusalem (346 A.D.)
In the sixth of his Catechetical Lectures prefaces his history of the Manichaeans by a brief account of earlier heresies:
"Simon Magus, he says, had given out that he was going to be translated to heaven, And Was Actually Careening Through The Air In A Chariot Drawn By Demons when Peter and Paul knelt down and prayed, and their prayers brought him to earth a mangled corpse."

• Jannes and Jambres
Jannes and Jambres - Wikipedia

Then The Magicians of Egypt did so with their Enchantments; and Pharaoh’s heart grew hard, and he did not heed them, as the Lord had said.
• Exodus 7:22

And when they had gone Pharaoh sent for Balaam The magician and to Jannes and Jambres his sons, and to all the magicians and conjurors and counsellors which belonged to the king, and they all came and sat before the king.
• Jasher 79:27

Now As Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;
• 2 Timothy 3:8

• The Witch / Medium of Endor in 1 Samuel 28 that uses Necromancy.

Stand now With Your Enchantments
And The Multitude Of YOUR SORCERIES,
In which you have labored from your youth—
Perhaps you will be able to profit,
Perhaps you will prevail.
You are wearied in the multitude of your counsels;
Let now The Astrologers, The Stargazers,
And The Monthly Prognosticators
Stand up and save you
From what shall come upon you.
Behold, They Shall Be As Stubble,
The Fire Shall Burn Them;
They shall not deliver themselves
From The Power Of The Flame;
It shall not be a coal to be warmed by,
Nor a fire to sit before!
• Isaiah 47:12-14

There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, Anyone Who Practices Divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or A Sorcerer a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead,
• Deuteronomy 18:10-11


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, Sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
• Galatians 5:19-20


Then the king gave the command to call The Magicians, the astrologers,
The Sorcerers, and the Chaldeans to tell the king his dreams. So they came and stood before the king.
• Daniel 2:2


• St. Ephraim the Syrian (306-373 A.D):
"Regard Not Spells and Divinations, for that is communion with Satan."


• St. Cyril of Jerusalem (313-386 A.D.):
"Also give heed neither to observations of the stars nor auguries, nor omens, nor to the fabulous Divinations of the Greeks. Witchcraft, and Enchantment, and The Wicked Practices of Necromancy, admit not even to a hearing."


• St. Cyril of Jerusalem (313-386 A.D.) :
"The watching of birds, Divination, omens, or amulets, or charms written on leaves, Sorceries, or Other Evil Arts, And All Such Things, are services of the devil; Therefore Shun Them."


• Canon 36 of The Council of Laodicea (363–364 A.D.) states:
"That members of the Sacerdocy and Clerics Must Not Be Magicians Or Enchanters, or mathematicians (i.e., numerologists), or astrologers, or make what are called amulets, which are shackles for their souls; accordingly, we have bidden those wearing these things to be thrown out of the Church."
CHURCH FATHERS: Synod of Laodicea (4th Century)


• St. Basil's canon 65 (330-379 A.D.) states:
"As for Anyone Practicing Incantation Or Sorcery, he shall be allotted the time of A Murderer, it being proportioned to him in such a manner as though he had convicted himself of each sin for a year."


• St. Basil's canon 72 (330-379 A.D.) states:
"Anyone who places himself in the hands of fortune-tellers or any other such persons professing to foresee future events or to discover the whereabouts of lost property, of persons in hiding, etc., he shall be sentenced to the same penalty as is prescribed for murderers and shall do the same length of time and the same penances."


• Canon 24 of The Council of Ancyra (314 A.D.) states:
"As for those who are Practicing Divination and continuing the customs of the heathen, and who are introducing persons into their homes with a view to Discovering Sorceries, or even with a view to purification, let them fall under the Canon of five years in accordance with the fixed degrees; three years of kneeling, and two years of prayer, without oblation."
CHURCH FATHERS: Council of Ancyra (A.D. 314)




• Involuntary physical feelings, lust, rage and vile thoughts can be caused by demonic spirits and people using witchcraft, spells and sorcery against us as they work with the demonic spirits. It can even happen to us while we are in Church.

The story of The Martyrs Saint Cyprian and Saint Justina makes this abundantly clear.


From : Hieromartyr Cyprian, Virgin Martyr Justina, and Martyr Theoctistus, of Nicomedia

"Cyrian sent demons to attack the holy virgin, trying to arouse fleshly passions in her, But
She Dispelled Them By The Power Of The Sign of The Cross And By Fervent Prayer To The Lord."



From : The Lives of Sts. Cyprian and Justina

"Cyprian called Aglaias and sent him to sprinkle the house of Justina secretly with the contents of the demon's vessel. When this had been done, the demon of fornication entered the house with the flaming arrows of fleshly lust in order to wound the heart of the maiden with fornication, and to ignite her flesh with impure lust.

Justina had the custom every night to offer up prayers to the Lord. And behold, when, according to custom, she arose at the third hour of the night and was praying to God, she suddenly felt an agitation in her body, a storm of bodily lust and the flame of the fire of gehenna. In such agitation and inward battle she remained for quite a long time; the youth Aglaias came to her mind, and shameful thoughts arose in her. The maiden marveled and was ashamed of herself, feeling that her blood was boiling as in a kettle; now she thought about that which she had always despised as vile. But in her good sense Justina understood that this battle had arisen in her from the devil; immediately She Turned To The Weapon Of The Sign Of The Cross, hastened to God with fervent prayer, and from the depths of her heart cried out to Christ her Bridegroom:

Having prayed long and fervently, the holy virgin put the enemy to shame. Being conquered by her prayer, he fled from her with shame, and again there came a calm in Justina's body and heart; the flame of desire was quenched, the battle ceased, the boiling blood was stilled. Justina glorified God and sang a song of victory.

The demon, on the other hand, returned to Cyprian with the sad news that he had accomplished nothing"

• Saints Cyprian and Justina

• This is how occultists depict Saint Cyprian :

Also from :
The Lives of Sts. Cyprian and Justina

"On this mountain Cyprian studied all manner of diabolical arts: he mastered various demonic transformations, learned how to change the nature of the air, to bring up winds, produce thunder and rain, disturb the waves of the sea, cause damage to gardens, vineyards and fields, to send diseases and plagues upon people; and in general he learned a ruinous wisdom and diabolical activity filled with evil.
In this place he saw A Numberless Legion Of Demons, with the prince of darkness at their head; some stood before him, others served him, still others cried out in praise of their prince, and some were sent into the world in order to corrupt people."

"Believe me," he said; "I have seen the prince of darkness himself, for I propitiated him by sacrifices. I greeted him and spoke with him and his ancients; he liked me, praised my understanding, and before everyone said: 'Here is a new Jambres, always ready for obedience and worthy of communion with us!' And he promised to make me a prince after my departure from the body, and for the course of earthly life to help me in everything. And He Gave Me A Legion Of Demons To Serve Me."

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[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Use The Sign Of The Cross and Prayer as A Weapon against it :


• Athanasius of Alexandria (296-373 A.D.)
(On The Incarnation Of The Word - 31)
"By The Sign Of The Cross All Magic Is Stopped, and All Witchcraft Brought To Nothing"


• Athanasius - Life of St Anthony - par 78 (296-373 ad)
"But we by the mention of Christ crucified put all demons to flight, whom you fear as if they were gods. Where The Sign Of The Cross Is, Magic Is Weak And Witchcraft Has No Strength."


• Athanasius of Alexandria (269-373 A.D.)
"By The Signing Of The Holy And Life-Giving Cross, devils and various scourges are driven away. For it is without price and without cost and praises him who can say it. The holy fathers have, by their words, transmitted to us, and even to the unbelieving heretics, how the two raised fingers and the single hand reveal Christ our God in His dual nature but single substance. The right hand proclaims His immeasurable strength, His sitting on the right hand of the Father, and His coming down unto us from Heaven. Again, by the movement of the hands to our right the enemies of God will be driven out, as the Lord triumphs over the Devil with His inconquerable power, rendering him dismal and weak."


• Athanasius of Alexandria - Life of St Anthony - Par 23 (296-373 A.D.)
"The demons, therefore, if they see all Christians, and monks especially, labouring cheerfully and advancing, first make an attack by temptation and place hindrances to hamper our way, to wit, evil thoughts. But we need not fear their suggestions, for by prayer, fasting, and faith in the Lord their attack immediately fails. But even when it does they cease not, but knavishly by subtlety come on again. For when they cannot deceive the heart openly with foul pleasures they approach in different guise, and thenceforth shaping displays they attempt to strike fear, changing their shapes, taking the forms of women, wild beasts, creeping things, gigantic bodies, and troops of soldiers. But not even then need you fear their deceitful displays. For they are nothing and quickly disappear, especially if a man fortify himself beforehand with faith and The Sign Of The Cross."

From : Hieromartyr Cyprian, Virgin Martyr Justina, and Martyr Theoctistus, of Nicomedia

"Cyrian sent demons to attack the holy virgin, trying to arouse fleshly passions in her, But
She Dispelled Them By The Power Of The Sign of The Cross And By Fervent Prayer To The Lord."



• The Prayer of Saint Justina :
"O Lord, my God, Jesus Christ! Behold how many enemies have risen up against me and have prepared a net in order to catch me and take away my soul. But I have remembered Thy name in the night and have rejoiced, and now when they are close about me I hasten to Thee and have hope that my enemy will not triumph over me. For thou knowest, O Lord my God, that I, Thy slave, have preserved for Thee the purity of my body and have entrusted my soul to Thee. Preserve Thy sheep, O good Shepherd; do not give it over to be eaten by the beast who seeks to devour me; grant me victory over the evil desire of my flesh."


• Prayer Against Demonic Influence
Almighty God, Who delivered Your people from the bondage of the adversary, and through Your Son cast down Satan like lightning, deliver me also from every influence of unclean spirits. Command Satan to depart far from me by the power of Your only begotten Son. Rescue me from demonic imaginings and darkness. Fill me with the light of the Holy Spirit that I may be guarded against all snares of crafty demons. Grant that an angel will always go before me and lead me to the path of righteousness all the days of my life, to the honor of Your glorious Name, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen.


• Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered; and let those who hate Him flee from His presence. As smoke vanishes, let them vanish; and as wax melts from the presence of fire, so let the demons perish from the presence of those who love God and who sign themselves with the Sign of the Cross and say in gladness: Hail, most precious and life-giving Cross of the Lord, for Thou drivest away the demons by the power of our Lord Jesus Christ crucified on thee, Who went down to hell and trampled on the power of the devil, and gave us thee, His venerable Cross, for driving away all enemies.


• Guard me, O Lord, by the power of Thy holy and life-giving Cross, and keep me from all evil



Jesus Christ Conquers

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[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Many times these people will channel demonic spirits and use Mudras and Hand Seals to open doors to the spirit world. All secret societies use gestures to open doors to the spirit world :

The Secrets Behind Martial Arts !


Now it happened, as we went to prayer, that A Certain Slave Girl POSSESSED WITH A SPIRIT OF DININATION met us, who brought her masters much profit By Fortune-Telling. This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, "These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation." And this she did for many days. But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her." And he came out that very hour. But when her masters saw that their hope of profit was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to the authorities.
• Acts 16:16-19



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[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Then the king gave the command to call The Magicians, The Astrologers, The Sorcerers, and the Chaldeans to tell the king his dreams. So they came and stood before the king.
• Daniel 2:2


But Pharaoh also called the wise men and The Sorcerers;
So The Magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner With Their Enchantments.
• Exodus 7:11


So they left all the commandments of the Lord their God, made for themselves a molded image and two calves, made a wooden image and worshiped all the host of heaven, and served Baal. And they caused their sons and daughters to pass through the fire, Practiced Witchcraft and Soothsaying, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger.
• 2 Kings 17:16-17


For the king of Babylon stands at the parting of the road, at the fork of the two roads,
To Use Divination: he shakes the arrows, he consults the images, he looks at the liver.
• Ezekiel 21:21


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[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Making The Sign Of The Cross, Drinking Holy Water, Prayer, Fasting and Partaking Of The Eucharist all helps against demons / witchcraft.


• Prayer against demonic snares

Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, having struck down the ancient serpent and bound him in Tartarus by bonds of darkness, protect me from his snares. Through the prayers of our Most Holy Lady, the Theotokos and Ever-virgin Mary, of the holy Archangel Michael and all the Heavenly hosts, of the holy Prophet and Baptist John, of the holy Evangelist John the Theologian, of the holy Martyr Cyprian and the Martyr Justinia, of St. Nicholas the wonderworker, of St. Nikita of Novgorod, of St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco, the wonderworker … and of all the saints, by the power of the life-giving Cross and by the intercession of my Guardian Angel, deliver me from evil spirits, from cunning people, from sorcery, curses, the evil eye, and from any slanders of the enemy. By Thine almighty power preserve me from evil, so that I, enlightened by Thy light, may safely reach the quiet anchorage of the Heavenly Kingdom and there eternally thank Thee, my Savior, together with Thine unoriginate Father and Thy Most Holy and Life-giving Spirit. Amen.

Prayer against demonic snares



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[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

• Council of Elvira, 305 A.D. states : "It has been decreed that those who in adult age after receiving Baptism shall go into the pagan temples to worship idols, which is a deadly crime And The Height Of Wickedness, Shall Not Be Admitted To Communion Even At Death."

CANONS OF THE CHURCH COUNCIL ELvira (Granada) ca. 309 A. D.





• St. John the Faster's canon 32 deals with people professing Enchantery or Sorcery.

"To those professing Enchantry or Sorcery, we curtail the economy to three years of penitence, provided they cheerfully consent to attach supreme importance to fasting every day, and to subsist on hard and dry food after the ninth hour and to live as inartificially as possible; and, furthermore, to execute two hundred and fifty adoratory salutations, reverently resting their forhead upon the ground. On a par with these persons we also set those women who make amulets and carry on the occupation of fortune-telling."

Interpretation :
Enchanters and Sorcerers, as well as those women who make amulets and tell fortunes, are canonized to forgo Communion for three years by the present Canon, and they have to eat dry food until after the ninth hour, and to eat only enough to subsist on, and to perform 250 metanies every day.

Canons of the Holy Fathers


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[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

• St. Justin Martyr - The First Apology - Chapter 26. - (100-165 A.D.)

CHURCH FATHERS: The First Apology (St. Justin Martyr)

"And, thirdly, because after Christ's ascension into heaven the devils put forward certain men who said that they themselves were gods; and they were not only not persecuted by you, but even deemed worthy of honours. There was a Samaritan, Simon, a native of the village called Gitto, who in the reign of Claudius Cæsar, and in your royal city of Rome, Did Mighty Acts Of Magic, By Virtue Of The Art Of The Devils Operating In Him. He was considered a god, and as a god was honoured by you with a statue, which was erected on the river Tiber, between the two bridges, and bore this inscription, in the language of Rome: — Simoni Deo Sancto, To Simon the holy God. And almost all the Samaritans, and a few even of other nations, worship him, and acknowledge him as the first god; and a woman, Helena, who went about with him at that time, and had formerly been a prostitute, they say is the first idea generated by him. And a man, Menander, also a Samaritan, of the town Capparetæa, a disciple of Simon, and inspired by devils, we know to have deceived many while he was in Antioch By His Magical Art. He persuaded those who adhered to him that they should never die, and even now there are some living who hold this opinion of his. And there is Marcion, a man of Pontus who is even at this day alive, and teaching his disciples to believe in some other god greater than the Creator.
And he, by the aid of the devils, has caused many of every nation to speak blasphemies, and to deny that God is the maker of this universe, and to assert that some other being, greater than He, has done greater works. All who take their opinions from these men, are, as we before said, called Christians; just as also those who do not agree with the philosophers in their doctrines, have yet in common with them the name of philosophers given to them. And whether they perpetrate those fabulous and shameful deeds— the upsetting of the lamp, and promiscuous intercourse, and eating human flesh — we know not; but we know that they are neither persecuted nor put to death by you, at least on account of their opinions. But I have a treatise against all the heresies that have existed already composed, which, if you wish to read it, I will give you."



• Cyril of Jerusalem - Catechetical Lectures - Procatechesis Prologue - #2
(313-386 A.D.)

CHURCH FATHERS: Catechetical Lecture Prologue (Cyril of Jerusalem)

"Even Simon Magus once came to the Laver : he was baptized, but was not enlightened; and though he dipped his body in water, he enlightened not his heart with the Spirit: his body went down and came up, but his soul was not buried with Christ, nor raised with Him. Now I mention the statements of (men's) falls, that you may not fall: for these things happened to them by way of example, and they are written for the admonition of those who to this day draw near. Let none of you be found tempting His grace, lest any root of bitterness spring up and trouble you. Let none of you enter saying, Let us see what the faithful are doing: let me go in and see, that I may learn what is being done. Do you expect to see, and not expect to be seen? And do you think that while you are searching out what is going on, God is not searching your heart?"



• Cyril of Jerusalem - Catechetical Lecture 3 - On Baptism - #7 (313-386 A.D.)

CHURCH FATHERS: Catechetical Lecture 3 (Cyril of Jerusalem)

"But there is perhaps among you some hypocrite, a man-pleaser, and one who makes a pretence of piety, but believes not from the heart; having the hypocrisy of Simon Magus; one who has come hither not in order to receive of the grace, but to spy out what is given: let him also learn from John: And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees, Every tree therefore that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Matthew3:10 The Judge is inexorable; put away your hypocrisy."

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[GoldenKingGaze]

Yes, they exist, but not accounts of witches are realistic. Some witches were innocent. They were herbalists or those the Gospel calls "those tormented by unclean spirits." The mentally ill, OCD, Schizophrenia...

It seems some societies love to hate someone. Being witches and heretics and homosexuals and Jews.

Also the prophets were unpopular and the successful attracted envy, or it is the poor ones who are exploited.

Then there is the matter of church influenced soldiers and governors coming across idolaters in India, China and North America. There was this boldness or dislike of the demonic involvement, but there should have been the love of Paul the apostle for them instead.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

• Cyril of Jerusalem - Catechetical Lecture 6 - 14-15 (313-386 A.D.)

CHURCH FATHERS: Catechetical Lecture 6 (Cyril of Jerusalem)


"The inventor of all heresy was Simon Magus : that Simon, who in the Acts of the Apostles thought to purchase with money the unsaleable grace of the Spirit, and heard the words, You have neither part nor lot in this matter Acts 8:18-21, and the rest: concerning whom also it is written, They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us.1 John 2:19 This man, after he had been cast out by the Apostles, came to Rome, and gaining over one Helena a harlot , was the first that dared with blasphemous mouth to say that it was himself who appeared on Mount Sinai as the Father, and afterwards appeared among the Jews, not in real flesh but in seeming , as Christ Jesus, and afterwards as the Holy Spirit whom Christ promised to send as the Paraclete. And he so deceived the City of Rome that Claudius set up his statue, and wrote beneath it, in the language of the Romans, Simoni Deo Sancto, which being interpreted signifies, To Simon the Holy God.

As the delusion was extending, Peter and Paul, a noble pair, chief rulers of the Church, arrived and set the error right ; and when the supposed god Simon wished to show himself off, they straightway showed him as a corpse. For Simon promised to rise aloft to heaven, And Came Riding In A Demon Chariot On The Air ; but the servants of God fell on their knees, and having shown that agreement of which Jesus spoke, that If two of you shall agree concerning anything that they shall ask, it shall be done unto them Matthew 18:19, They (Peter and Paul) launched the weapon of their concord in prayer against Magus, and struck him down to the earth. And marvellous though it was, yet no marvel. For Peter was there, who carries the keys of heaven : and nothing wonderful, for Paul was there , who was caught up to the third heaven, and into Paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful far a man to utter. These brought the supposed God down from the sky to earth, thence to be taken down to the regions below the earth. In this man first the serpent of wickedness appeared; but when one head had been cut off, the root of wickedness was found again with many heads."

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[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously Practiced Sorcery in the city and astonished the people of Samaria, claiming that he was someone great,
• Acts 8:9


• St. Justin Martyr - The First Apology - Chapter 26. - (100-165 A.D.)

CHURCH FATHERS: The First Apology (St. Justin Martyr)

" There was a Samaritan, Simon, a native of the village called Gitto, who in the reign of Claudius Cæsar, and in your royal city of Rome,
Did Mighty Acts Of Magic, By Virtue Of The Art Of The Devils Operating In Him."




• St. Justin Martyr - On Idolatry - Chapter IX - 54-56. (100-165 A.D.)

ANF3 Tertullian On Idolatry

"For thenceforward Simon Magus, just turned believer, (since he was still thinking somewhat of his juggling sect; to wit, that among the miracles of his profession he might buy even the gift of the Holy Spirit through imposition of hands) Was Cursed By The Apostles, And Ejected From The Faith.
Both he and that other magician, who was with Sergius Paulus, (since he began opposing himself to the same apostles) was mulcted with loss of eyes.

The same fate, I believe, would astrologers, too, have met, if any had fallen in the way of the apostles. But yet, When Magic Is Punished, of which astrology is a species, of course the species is condemned in the genus.

After the Gospel, you will nowhere find either sophists, Chaldeans, Enchanters, Diviners, or Magicians, Except As Clearly Punished."

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[GoldenKingGaze]

Derek prince here taught about witchcraft. He mentions how it hurt the success of the Native Americans. It blocks the blessings of God.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

https://jordanville.org/files/Articles/Anathemas.pdf


• To the Masons, the Occultists, Spiritualists, Sorcerers, and all who do not believe in one God, but honour the demons, who do not humbly surrender their life to God, but strive to learn the future Through The Sorcerous Invocation Of Demons, ANATHEMA!


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[pescador]

https://jordanville.org/files/Articles/Anathemas.pdf


• To the Masons, the Occultists, Spiritualists, Sorcerers, and all who do not believe in one God, but honour the demons, who do not humbly surrender their life to God, but strive to learn the future Through The Sorcerous Invocation Of Demons, ANATHEMA!


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Would it be too much to ask that you use the Bible to make your points instead of Eastern Orthodox dogma?

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

The Lord Jesus Christ left A Physical Church On Earth.

Jesus Is The Church. The Church Is The Body Of Christ.

The Canons and Decrees of The Ecumenical Councils are Infallible.

The Writings of The Holy Fathers are for The Church.


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[pescador]

The Lord Jesus Christ left A Physical Church On Earth.

Jesus Is The Church. The Church Is The Body Of Christ.

The Canons and Decrees of The Ecumenical Councils are Infallible.

The Writings of The Holy Fathers are for The Church.


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I repeat my post...

Would it be too much to ask that you use the Bible to make your points instead of Eastern Orthodox dogma?

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

I repeat my post...

Would it be too much to ask that you use the Bible to make your points instead of Eastern Orthodox dogma?

I'll PM you.

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[pescador]

I'll PM you.

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No thanks. If you can't respond openly don't bother.