The real sins of Sodom were greed and pride

ironbjorn

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This is yet another attempt by 21st century Christians to normalize homosexuality. No different than people saying Romans 1:26+ is about orgies and not homosexuality. Speaking of pride, it's the pride of the modern Christian that makes them believe they are right and that nearly 2,000 years of interpretation is wrong.
 
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Scann

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This is yet another attempt by 21st century Christians to normalize homosexuality. No different than people saying Romans 1:26+ is about orgies and not homosexuality. Speaking of pride, it's the pride of the modern Christian that makes them believe they are right and that nearly 2,000 years of interpretation is wrong.
These type of people are afraid of losing their friends from the pro-gay majority and are also afraid of the power they wield. Jesus said that we would be hated in His name but these people are not willing to be hated and are more comfortable to be "loved".
 
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Done222

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Sodom was probably more like today’s society than we realize. As long as we see Sodom as a raging band of violent homosexuals, we will fail to realize we are now living in Sodom.

There is a great deal of greed today as a small percentage of society continues to hoard more and more of society's wealth, and among our young there is a growing socialist movement that wants to take wealth by force and redistribute to themselves.

There is also the haughtiness of today’s celebrities and a ruling class that view much of the public with great derision.

It has been almost universally agreed that the sin of Sodom was homosexuality, but that is the tradition of man, what does the Bible actually say.
Ezekiel 16:49-50 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom: pride, fulness of bread, and careless ease was in her and in her daughters; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before Me; therefore I removed them when I saw it.

Is glutton a sin? Are pride and haughtiness two different sins? Regardless of how many sins you count in this verse, it does not mention homosexuality. When it comes to Sodom this is the most important verse. This is God Himself stating *why* He destroyed Sodom.

The men of Sodom did demand to have sex with Lot’s guests, but what was their motive? Was it really so important that they have sex with these two strangers or did a large crowd gather at Lot’s house because of fear of judgment?

Peter talks about the distress of Lot, but he doesn’t say what sin Lot is distress about.

And then there is Jude, which talks about gross immorality and strange flesh, but Jude compares the sins of Sodom to Genesis 6 when “the sons of God” married the daughters of men. There is clearly a lot of debate and confusion over what Jude meant by “strange flesh”. It isn’t clear that Jude is talking about homosexuality, but God stated clearly in Ezekiel that Sodom was destroyed for pride and greed.
 
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nolidad

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The story of Sodom and Gomorrah’s demise begins in the 18th chapter of Genesis when God told Abraham that he would destroy Sodom, but the destruction of the city takes place in the 19th chapter. Lot was the nephew of Abraham, and he lived in Sodom. Lot was a righteous man, but he remained in Sodom until the very end, and many of his actions indicate that he was trying to save Sodom from destruction. Apparently, Lot did not think that Sodom was all that bad.

When God told Abraham that Sodom would be destroyed, Abraham tried to bargain with God to spare the city, which means Abraham did not want to see Sodom destroyed. God agreed not to destroy Sodom if ten righteous men were found in the city. This suggests that sometime between the warning and the destruction, Abraham and/or Lot would have searched the city for ten righteous men since that was the deal. In searching for righteous men, they would certainly try to persuade some not-so-righteous men to be more righteous.

In conducting this search Abraham and/or Lot would have warned the people of the coming destruction since this was their best argument; but the real sins of Sodom were greed and pride; and being greedy, it would be difficult to convince these people to sacrifice some of their wealth to help the poor. Being proud, the people of Sodom would tend to reject any suggestion that their great city was displeasing to God. Abraham was an outsider, and Lot was viewed as an outsider.


When the angels came to destroy the city, Lot was expecting them. Lot even sat at the gates of the city waiting for these angels to arrive. This confirms that either Abraham or God warned Lot which would have led to the search for righteous men in the city. Lot was able to recognize that they were angels, which means that these strangers must have stood out in some way. Other people of Sodom must have also seen the angels, and the arrival of these unusual strangers would have triggered conversations across the city.

As word spread, and the people of Sodom talked about the strangers, some of the people of Sodom would start to become concerned about Lot’s warning. A crowd gathered at Lot’s house to find out who these strangers were. These concerned citizens couldn’t ask the question, “Are these angels of God, sent to destroy us?” They were too proud and they were not going to give that warning any credibility, so they asked a different question. In a typical arrogant fashion, they asked the question in a very clever way.


The crowd was trying to determine if these strangers were human. They were waiting to see the reaction of Lot and the reaction of the strangers. How did Lot react?


Lot was a righteous man, meaning he was a good man, and he must have loved his daughters greatly. Lot wasn’t actually going to send his daughters out to a mob. This mob was not interested in sex, and Lot knew this. Lot knew they were trying to determine if the visitors were angels. What Lot basically said was, “You can even rape and kill my own daughters, but whatever you do – WHATEVER YOU DO – DON'T MESS WITH THESE STRANGERS!”

Lot was trying to get the mob to back off, but his words confirmed to the crowd that these were angels of God who were sent to destroy them, and the people of Sodom became more hostile.

Notice that Lot went outside to speak to the mob. He even shut the door as if he was going to speak with them privately, away from the angels. Clearly, Lot wasn’t afraid of these people, in fact, he was trying to help them. Lot was trying to get his friends and neighbors to back off, and he wanted to do so without the angels hearing what he said to the crowd, and what the crowd said to him.

This is why Lot had waited at the gate for the angels to arrive so that he would be the one to greet them. Lot wanted to save Sodom otherwise he would have simply fled the city when God or Abraham warned him. Lot wanted to plead for the city of Sodom, but first he had to get the angels to his house, and he also had to keep them away from the people of Sodom who had rejected his warning.

Notice that when the mob threatened Lot, it had nothing to do with sex.


This mob wasn’t after sex. There were upset at being judged by this outsider. They might have tried to escape the city once the reality sunk in that their confrontation was futile. Unfortunately for the people who were gathered at Lot’s house, the angels blinded them so that they had a difficult time even finding the door to Lot’s house.


Religious leaders have portrayed Sodom as a city of brutal homosexuals who went around in mobs raping people. But if Sodom was as barbaric as it has been portrayed it wouldn’t be necessary for God to destroy the city as it would have destroyed itself. A city that lived by trade could not have survived if it had been so violent, and it is inconceivable that Lot would have stuck around if Sodom had been so brutal. The real story of Sodom and Gomorrah is a condemnation of greed and pride.

Yes Sodom and Gomorrah were proud and greedy, but make no mistake- their destruction as described in Ezekiel and Jude were because of the sin of homosexuality possibly even more sexual sin, though that is not written. When the bible says bring the men out so that they may "know" them, that was to have sex with them.
 
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Quartermaine

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I don't believe angels mated with humans. It's not "defined" in my opinion it's mostly speculation. I was taught and believe as in Job 1 that the sons of God are humans who follow God. Why do people go out of their way to excuse homosexual behaviour. It's the only sin people do this for.



When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. Then the Lord said, "My spirit shall not abide in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.  Genesis 6:1–4

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. Job 1:6

The sons of God were present at the creation of the earth long before man was created

Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
Who fixed its measurements? Surely you know!
Or who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its foundations set,
or who laid its cornerstone,
while the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:4-7
 
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Der Alte

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Yes. But that does not excuse homosexuality. Lot was just weak, although grieved by the behaviour of the Sodomites. Lot chose the security of worldly city life while Abraham chose God's way instead. Lot did not intercede for Sodom. Abraham interceded for Sodom in spite of the evils. Abraham appealed to God's mercy and to a degree, it worked. There were just not enough righteous people....
Jewish Encyclopedia-Hospitality
The "ger," the sojourner who lived with a Hebrew family or clan, was assured by the Biblical law not only of protection against oppression (Ex. xxiii. 9) and deceit (Lev. xix. 33), but also of love from the natives (Deut. xvi. 14), who were to love him even as themselves (Lev. xix. 34). He was to be invited to participate in the family and tribal festivals (Deut. l.c.), the Passover excepted; and even in the latter he could take part if he submitted to circumcision. He received a share in the tithes distributed among the poor (ib. xiv. 19); and "one law and one statute" applied equally to the native and to him (Ex. xii. 49). God Himself loves the stranger (Deut. x. 18) and keeps him under His special protection (Ps. cxlvi. 9).
see; Proselytes), point to a deep-seated feeling of kindness toward strangers among the ancient Hebrews, the intensity of the feeling of hospitality among them can best be learned from the casual references to it in the narrative portions of the Bible. Thus Abraham, the archetype of the Hebrew race, entertained three strangers at his house and showed them many kindnesses (Gen. xviii. 1-8). His kinsman Lot was ready to risk his life and the honor of his daughters rather than transgress the laws of hospitality (ib. xix. 1-8)
HOSPITALITY - JewishEncyclopedia.com
 
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creslaw

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Ezekiel's writing about Sodom is best understood in the context of the "holiness code" in Leviticus chapters 17-26. This can be easily researched.

Ezekiel lists a number of sins and then goes on to say Sodom was destroyed because of "towebah" abomination (16:50). The only two places in the holiness code where this specific form of the word is used are Lev 18:22 & Lev 20:13 which are both references to homosexuality. ( Hebrew Concordance: ṯō·w·‘ê·ḇāh -- 16 Occurrences )

It is interesting that in 16:50 Ezekiel uses the singular form when speaking of Sodom's destruction though he has elsewhere in this chapter used the plural.

Jesus confirmed the story of Sodom's destruction and two of his closest followers (Peter & Jude) refer to the sexual nature of Sodom's sins.
 
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creslaw

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The situation in Sodom was prior to the Law. I'm not saying that you are wrong, but bringing the Law to bear on the subject is irrelevant.
I believe Paul agrees with you because he places his condemnation of homosexuality in the context of rejecting God's natural law (Romans 1:20).
 
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Quartermaine

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Ezekiel's writing about Sodom is best understood in the context of the "holiness code" in Leviticus chapters 17-26. This can be easily researched.

Ezekiel lists a number of sins and then goes on to say Sodom was destroyed because of "towebah" abomination (16:50). The only two places in the holiness code where this specific form of the word is used are Lev 18:22 & Lev 20:13 which are both references to homosexuality. ( Hebrew Concordance: ṯō·w·‘ê·ḇāh -- 16 Occurrences )
um....you are saying that twoebah is only used twice yet the word appears 117 times in the bible.
 
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creslaw

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um....you are saying that twoebah is only used twice yet the word appears 117 times in the bible.

No, I did not say that.

I said: "The only two places in the holiness code where this specific form of the word is used are Lev 18:22 & Lev 20:13 which are both references to homosexuality."

If you need me to explain more simply I would be happy to oblige.
 
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Quartermaine

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No, I did not say that.

I said: "The only two places in the holiness code where this specific form of the word is used are Lev 18:22 & Lev 20:13 which are both references to homosexuality."

If you need me to explain more simply I would be happy to oblige.
doesn't the holiness code specifically stress that the Jews are separate from the rest of the world and these rules are just for them?

or are the other 115 appearances not meaningful?
 
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creslaw

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doesn't the holiness code specifically stress that the Jews are separate from the rest of the world and these rules are just for them?

or are the other 115 appearances not meaningful?

Some of the matters in the Holiness Code are relevant for Christians today (eg incest) but the issue is not whether the Holiness Code applies to NT Christians but, as in the OP, why Sodom was destroyed.

Context is important for deriving the meaning of words. I was specifically referring to understanding Ezekiel's use of the word in 16:50. Many scholars have noted Ezekiel's references to the Levitical Holiness Code so it makes sense to look at how the word is used there. As I have previously indicated, there are only two uses of that specific form of the word in the Holiness Code, and both pertain to homosexuality.
 
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Quartermaine

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Some of the matters in the Holiness Code are relevant for Christians today (eg incest) but the issue is not whether the Holiness Code applies to NT Christians but, as in the OP, why Sodom was destroyed.

Context is important for deriving the meaning of words. I was specifically referring to understanding Ezekiel's use of the word in 16:50. Many scholars have noted Ezekiel's references to the Levitical Holiness Code so it makes sense to look at how the word is used there. As I have previously indicated, there are only two uses of that specific form of the word in the Holiness Code, and both pertain to homosexuality.
and what laws of the holiness code did Ezekiel say were responsible for the destruction of Sodom?
 
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GenemZ

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Ezekiel 16:49-50 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom: pride, fulness of
bread, and careless ease was in her and in her daughters; neither did she strengthen
the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination
before Me; therefore I removed them when I saw it.


The story of Sodom and Gomorrah’s demise begins in the 18th chapter of Genesis when God told Abraham that he would destroy Sodom, but the destruction of the city takes place in the 19th chapter. Lot was the nephew of Abraham, and he lived in Sodom. Lot was a righteous man, but he remained in Sodom until the very end, and many of his actions indicate that he was trying to save Sodom from destruction. Apparently, Lot did not think that Sodom was all that bad.

Ezekiel was not talking about the actual Sodom that was judged in Abraham's day. No more talking about the actual Sodom than when Jesus called Peter "Satan."

Ezekiel was using analogy to condemn the actions of rebellious Jews in Israel. Just like Jesus used the name "Satan" to condemn the actions of Peter.

grace and peace.....
 
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