The real sins of Sodom were greed and pride

chad kincham

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The story of Sodom and Gomorrah’s demise begins in the 18th chapter of Genesis when God told Abraham that he would destroy Sodom, but the destruction of the city takes place in the 19th chapter. Lot was the nephew of Abraham, and he lived in Sodom. Lot was a righteous man, but he remained in Sodom until the very end, and many of his actions indicate that he was trying to save Sodom from destruction. Apparently, Lot did not think that Sodom was all that bad.

When God told Abraham that Sodom would be destroyed, Abraham tried to bargain with God to spare the city, which means Abraham did not want to see Sodom destroyed. God agreed not to destroy Sodom if ten righteous men were found in the city. This suggests that sometime between the warning and the destruction, Abraham and/or Lot would have searched the city for ten righteous men since that was the deal. In searching for righteous men, they would certainly try to persuade some not-so-righteous men to be more righteous.

In conducting this search Abraham and/or Lot would have warned the people of the coming destruction since this was their best argument; but the real sins of Sodom were greed and pride; and being greedy, it would be difficult to convince these people to sacrifice some of their wealth to help the poor. Being proud, the people of Sodom would tend to reject any suggestion that their great city was displeasing to God. Abraham was an outsider, and Lot was viewed as an outsider.


When the angels came to destroy the city, Lot was expecting them. Lot even sat at the gates of the city waiting for these angels to arrive. This confirms that either Abraham or God warned Lot which would have led to the search for righteous men in the city. Lot was able to recognize that they were angels, which means that these strangers must have stood out in some way. Other people of Sodom must have also seen the angels, and the arrival of these unusual strangers would have triggered conversations across the city.

As word spread, and the people of Sodom talked about the strangers, some of the people of Sodom would start to become concerned about Lot’s warning. A crowd gathered at Lot’s house to find out who these strangers were. These concerned citizens couldn’t ask the question, “Are these angels of God, sent to destroy us?” They were too proud and they were not going to give that warning any credibility, so they asked a different question. In a typical arrogant fashion, they asked the question in a very clever way.


The crowd was trying to determine if these strangers were human. They were waiting to see the reaction of Lot and the reaction of the strangers. How did Lot react?


Lot was a righteous man, meaning he was a good man, and he must have loved his daughters greatly. Lot wasn’t actually going to send his daughters out to a mob. This mob was not interested in sex, and Lot knew this. Lot knew they were trying to determine if the visitors were angels. What Lot basically said was, “You can even rape and kill my own daughters, but whatever you do – WHATEVER YOU DO – DON'T MESS WITH THESE STRANGERS!”

Lot was trying to get the mob to back off, but his words confirmed to the crowd that these were angels of God who were sent to destroy them, and the people of Sodom became more hostile.

Notice that Lot went outside to speak to the mob. He even shut the door as if he was going to speak with them privately, away from the angels. Clearly, Lot wasn’t afraid of these people, in fact, he was trying to help them. Lot was trying to get his friends and neighbors to back off, and he wanted to do so without the angels hearing what he said to the crowd, and what the crowd said to him.

This is why Lot had waited at the gate for the angels to arrive so that he would be the one to greet them. Lot wanted to save Sodom otherwise he would have simply fled the city when God or Abraham warned him. Lot wanted to plead for the city of Sodom, but first he had to get the angels to his house, and he also had to keep them away from the people of Sodom who had rejected his warning.

Notice that when the mob threatened Lot, it had nothing to do with sex.


This mob wasn’t after sex. There were upset at being judged by this outsider. They might have tried to escape the city once the reality sunk in that their confrontation was futile. Unfortunately for the people who were gathered at Lot’s house, the angels blinded them so that they had a difficult time even finding the door to Lot’s house.


Religious leaders have portrayed Sodom as a city of brutal homosexuals who went around in mobs raping people. But if Sodom was as barbaric as it has been portrayed it wouldn’t be necessary for God to destroy the city as it would have destroyed itself. A city that lived by trade could not have survived if it had been so violent, and it is inconceivable that Lot would have stuck around if Sodom had been so brutal. The real story of Sodom and Gomorrah is a condemnation of greed and pride.


That’s an absurd interpretation, and is incorrect.

Apparently you don’t know that to ‘know’ someone in the Bible means to have carnal knowledge of them, aka having sexual relations.

And it’s obvious from the account that it’s talking about sex being what was demanded of the visitors.

In Genesis 19 Jehovah rains down fire and brimstone from heaven - no angels destroyed Sodom.

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

And Jude says why sodom was destroyed:

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire

Modern English version for same verse:

Jud 1:7 Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them, which like them committed sexual sins and pursued homosexual activities, serve as an example of the punishment of eternal fire.
 
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Jude does mention fornication and “strange flesh”, and maybe there was fornication and “strange flesh” in Sodom. Maybe there was a lot of sin of many kinds in Sodom, but that’s not why Sodom was destroyed. God said Sodom was destroyed for pride and greed.

Let's look at Jude 1:7 more closely.


Jude 1:7
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, having indulged in sexual immorality and having gone after strange flesh, in like manner with them are set forth as an example, undergoing the penalty of eternal fire.

Why do you suppose that Jude predicated "sexual immorality, having gone after strange flesh," with "fire?" Do you think that there might be a connection?

Could it be that the pride was that these homosexuals thought that they knew better than Elihom? Could it be that the greed was wanting something more that what YHWH had rightfully given them, a woman in marriage, an earthly example of our heavenly marriage to Yahshua?
 
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Among the sexual perversions proscribed as criminal offenses in the moral code of the Torah are homosexual relations between males (Lev. 18:22). Both offending parties are threatened with capital punishment (Lev. 20:13), though minors under 13 years of age are exempt from this as from any other penalty (Sanh. 54a). Talmudic law extends the prohibition, but not the penalty, which is limited to flagellation, also to lesbianism, i.e., homosexual intimacies between women, based on the general warning not to indulge in the abhorrent practices of the Egyptians and the Canaanites (Sifra 9:8). While the laws on both offenses are codified by Maimonides (Yad, Issurei Bi'ah, 1:14; and 21:8), the prohibition of homosexuality proper is omitted from R. Joseph Caro's Shulhan Arukh. This omission reflects the perceived absence of homosexuality among Jews rather than any difference of views on the criminality of these acts. The Bible refers to actual incidents involving homosexuality only in describing the abominations of the sinful city of Sodom, where the entire population demanded of Lot the surrender of his visitors "that we may know them" (Gen. 19:5), i.e., have carnal knowledge of them (hence the common use of the term "sodomy" for homosexuality), and again in the story of similar conduct by a group of Benjamites in Gibeah, leading to a disastrous civil war (Judg. 19–20). In addition to these isolated cases, the Talmud records that the Egyptian Potiphar purchased Joseph "for himself " (Sot. 13b), that is, for homosexual purposes (Rashi). For the talmudic period, too, the records know of very few such incidents (see TJ, Sanh. 6:6, 23c; Jos., Ant. 15:25–30). An instructive indication of the rare incidence of homosexuality among Jews may also be found in the interesting history of a legal enactment designed to prevent it. To this end R. Judah forbade two bachelors to sleep together under one blanket (Kid. 4:14); but the view of the sages prevailed that there was no need for such a safeguard against homosexuality (Kid. 82a). Maimonides (Yad, Issurei Bi'ah 22:2) still followed the Talmud in holding that "Jews are not suspect to practice homosexuality," and therefore permitted two males to be closeted together. By the 16th century conditions had evidently changed to induce Caro, after recording this view, to add: "Nevertheless, in our times, when lewdness is rampant, one should abstain from being alone with another male" (Sh. Ar., EH 24). Yet, a century later R. Joel *Sirkes again suspended the restriction, except as a praiseworthy act of piety, on the ground that "in our lands [Poland] such lewdness is unheard of " (Bayit Hadash to Tur, EH 24). Rabbinic sources advance various reasons for the strict ban on homosexuality which, incidentally, is regarded as a universal law included among "the Seven Commandments of the Sons of Noah" (Sanh. 57b–58a). It is an unnatural perversion, debasing the dignity of man (Sefer ha-Ḥinnukh, no. 209). Moreover, such acts frustrate the procreative purpose of sex, just as do any other forms of "spilling the seed in vain" (ibid.). A third objection is seen in the damage to family life, by the homosexual abandoning his wife (Tos. and R. Asher to Ned. 51a). Jewish law, then, rejected the view that homosexuality was to be regarded merely as a disease or as morally neutral, categorically rejecting the view that homosexual acts "between two consenting adults" were to be judged by the same criterion as heterosexual marriage – that is, whether they were intended to foster a permanent relation of love. Jewish law holds that no hedonistic ethic, even if called "love," can justify the morality of homosexuality any more than it can legitimize adultery or incest, however genuinely such acts may be performed out of love and by mutual consent.
BIBLIOGRAPHY:
Oẓar ha-Posekim, 9 (1965), 236–8; L.M. Epstein, Sex Laws and Customs in Judaism, (1948), 64f., 134–8; N. Lamm, in: Jewish Life, 35 (1967–68), no. 3, 11ff.; no. 5, 53ff. ADD. BIBLIOGRAPHY: D. Shneer and K. Aviv (eds.), Queer Jews (2002); D. Boyarin et al. (eds.), Queer Theory and the Jewish Question (2003).
Homosexuality
 
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chad kincham

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At first glance, the story of Sodom seems to be a condemnation of homosexuality, and since a lot of people don’t like homosexuality, they don’t look any deeper.

This is not about defending or condemning homosexuality. It is simply looking at the clues to determined what actually happened in the story of Sodom.

Since Abraham and Lot both knew what was coming, it seems very reasonable to believe that the people of Sodom were warned. Lot stuck around suggesting that he got along with at least some people in Sodom, and he would have warned them. Abraham tried to bargain with God suggesting that maybe he might warn some people in Sodom.

In either case, if the people of Sodom had been warned, that explains why they would gather at Lot’s house when these strangers arrived.

I find it easier to believe that the crowd was simply trying to determine if these were angels than to believe Lot was going to give his daughters to a violent mob.[/QUOTE
You quote Peter’s view of what Lot experienced, instead of looking at the words and actions of Lot. I’m not saying that Peter is wrong, there was certainly some wickedness in Sodom and Lot may have been distressed by it at times. But Lot could have simply left. Lot remained in Sodom. He went to meet the angels and took them to his house. He knew they were coming. He knew judgment was coming. But he stayed in Sodom.

I realize it has been pretty much universally accepted that Sodom was a place of violent homosexuals, and maybe it was. Maybe there was fornication and “strange flesh”, but that’s not why Sodom was destroyed. God said Sodom was destroyed for pride and greed. Those were the only specific sins that God mentioned when He clearly stated why He destroyed Sodom.

Think about how this story is viewed. Imagine a homosexual city, like for example San Francisco. Imagine staying in San Francisco and having a crowd of gay men surrounding your house demanding to have sex with your male guests. You suggest they have sex with some young girls, and they become enraged. They express anger that you are somehow judging them. They violently attack you. That doesn't make much sense, unless some kind of demonic spirit was influencing these people, but if Sodom was so horrible the question remains, "why did Lot stick around?"

Also,

A parent’s love for their child has not changed. Lot loved his daughter.

God says why Sodom was destroyed:

Jud 1:7 Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them, which like them committed sexual sins and pursued homosexual activities, serve as an example of the punishment of eternal fire. ISV
 
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chad kincham

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Among the sexual perversions proscribed as criminal offenses in the moral code of the Torah are homosexual relations between males (Lev. 18:22). Both offending parties are threatened with capital punishment (Lev. 20:13), though minors under 13 years of age are exempt from this as from any other penalty (Sanh. 54a). Talmudic law extends the prohibition, but not the penalty, which is limited to flagellation, also to lesbianism, i.e., homosexual intimacies between women, based on the general warning not to indulge in the abhorrent practices of the Egyptians and the Canaanites (Sifra 9:8). While the laws on both offenses are codified by Maimonides (Yad, Issurei Bi'ah, 1:14; and 21:8), the prohibition of homosexuality proper is omitted from R. Joseph Caro's Shulhan Arukh. This omission reflects the perceived absence of homosexuality among Jews rather than any difference of views on the criminality of these acts. The Bible refers to actual incidents involving homosexuality only in describing the abominations of the sinful city of Sodom, where the entire population demanded of Lot the surrender of his visitors "that we may know them" (Gen. 19:5), i.e., have carnal knowledge of them (hence the common use of the term "sodomy" for homosexuality), and again in the story of similar conduct by a group of Benjamites in Gibeah, leading to a disastrous civil war (Judg. 19–20). In addition to these isolated cases, the Talmud records that the Egyptian Potiphar purchased Joseph "for himself " (Sot. 13b), that is, for homosexual purposes (Rashi). For the talmudic period, too, the records know of very few such incidents (see TJ, Sanh. 6:6, 23c; Jos., Ant. 15:25–30). An instructive indication of the rare incidence of homosexuality among Jews may also be found in the interesting history of a legal enactment designed to prevent it. To this end R. Judah forbade two bachelors to sleep together under one blanket (Kid. 4:14); but the view of the sages prevailed that there was no need for such a safeguard against homosexuality (Kid. 82a). Maimonides (Yad, Issurei Bi'ah 22:2) still followed the Talmud in holding that "Jews are not suspect to practice homosexuality," and therefore permitted two males to be closeted together. By the 16th century conditions had evidently changed to induce Caro, after recording this view, to add: "Nevertheless, in our times, when lewdness is rampant, one should abstain from being alone with another male" (Sh. Ar., EH 24). Yet, a century later R. Joel *Sirkes again suspended the restriction, except as a praiseworthy act of piety, on the ground that "in our lands [Poland] such lewdness is unheard of " (Bayit Hadash to Tur, EH 24). Rabbinic sources advance various reasons for the strict ban on homosexuality which, incidentally, is regarded as a universal law included among "the Seven Commandments of the Sons of Noah" (Sanh. 57b–58a). It is an unnatural perversion, debasing the dignity of man (Sefer ha-Ḥinnukh, no. 209). Moreover, such acts frustrate the procreative purpose of sex, just as do any other forms of "spilling the seed in vain" (ibid.). A third objection is seen in the damage to family life, by the homosexual abandoning his wife (Tos. and R. Asher to Ned. 51a). Jewish law, then, rejected the view that homosexuality was to be regarded merely as a disease or as morally neutral, categorically rejecting the view that homosexual acts "between two consenting adults" were to be judged by the same criterion as heterosexual marriage – that is, whether they were intended to foster a permanent relation of love. Jewish law holds that no hedonistic ethic, even if called "love," can justify the morality of homosexuality any more than it can legitimize adultery or incest, however genuinely such acts may be performed out of love and by mutual consent.
BIBLIOGRAPHY:
Oẓar ha-Posekim, 9 (1965), 236–8; L.M. Epstein, Sex Laws and Customs in Judaism, (1948), 64f., 134–8; N. Lamm, in: Jewish Life, 35 (1967–68), no. 3, 11ff.; no. 5, 53ff. ADD. BIBLIOGRAPHY: D. Shneer and K. Aviv (eds.), Queer Jews (2002); D. Boyarin et al. (eds.), Queer Theory and the Jewish Question (2003).
Homosexuality

And, Jude says why God destroyed Sodom:

Jud 1:7 Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them, which like them committed sexual sins and pursued homosexual activities, serve as an example of the punishment of eternal fire. ISV
 
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chad kincham

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At first glance, the story of Sodom seems to be a condemnation of homosexuality, and since a lot of people don’t like homosexuality, they don’t look any deeper.

This is not about defending or condemning homosexuality. It is simply looking at the clues to determined what actually happened in the story of Sodom.

Since Abraham and Lot both knew what was coming, it seems very reasonable to believe that the people of Sodom were warned. Lot stuck around suggesting that he got along with at least some people in Sodom, and he would have warned them. Abraham tried to bargain with God suggesting that maybe he might warn some people in Sodom.

In either case, if the people of Sodom had been warned, that explains why they would gather at Lot’s house when these strangers arrived.

I find it easier to believe that the crowd was simply trying to determine if these were angels than to believe Lot was going to give his daughters to a violent mob.[/QUOTE

Jud 1:7 Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them, which like them committed sexual sins and pursued homosexual activities, serve as an example of the punishment of eternal fire. ISV
 
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chad kincham

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Lot was not afraid of the mob. Lot would never send his daughters to be raped by a mob, and if he would, why did God spare him? The mob quickly demonstrated that they were not interested in sex, they were upset about being judged. Looking fairly at the details, this interpretation makes more sense.

And yeah, there is also God speaking through the prophet Ezekiel saying that the sins of Sodom were Pride and greed.

Except Jude says why Sodom was destroyed:

Jud 1:7 Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them, which like them committed sexual sins and pursued homosexual activities, serve as an example of the punishment of eternal fire. ISV
 
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If the men of the city were not after sex why did Lot offer his daughters, in place of the men

See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof.”
 
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Is that basically a general defense for homosexuality?
It's not just homosexuality. Imagine a society that sees a stranger, follows them around, and then tries to rape them for kicks.
 
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The story of Sodom and Gomorrah’s demise begins in the 18th chapter of Genesis when God told Abraham that he would destroy Sodom, but the destruction of the city takes place in the 19th chapter. Lot was the nephew of Abraham, and he lived in Sodom. Lot was a righteous man, but he remained in Sodom until the very end, and many of his actions indicate that he was trying to save Sodom from destruction. Apparently, Lot did not think that Sodom was all that bad.

When God told Abraham that Sodom would be destroyed, Abraham tried to bargain with God to spare the city, which means Abraham did not want to see Sodom destroyed. God agreed not to destroy Sodom if ten righteous men were found in the city. This suggests that sometime between the warning and the destruction, Abraham and/or Lot would have searched the city for ten righteous men since that was the deal. In searching for righteous men, they would certainly try to persuade some not-so-righteous men to be more righteous.

In conducting this search Abraham and/or Lot would have warned the people of the coming destruction since this was their best argument; but the real sins of Sodom were greed and pride; and being greedy, it would be difficult to convince these people to sacrifice some of their wealth to help the poor. Being proud, the people of Sodom would tend to reject any suggestion that their great city was displeasing to God. Abraham was an outsider, and Lot was viewed as an outsider.


When the angels came to destroy the city, Lot was expecting them. Lot even sat at the gates of the city waiting for these angels to arrive. This confirms that either Abraham or God warned Lot which would have led to the search for righteous men in the city. Lot was able to recognize that they were angels, which means that these strangers must have stood out in some way. Other people of Sodom must have also seen the angels, and the arrival of these unusual strangers would have triggered conversations across the city.

As word spread, and the people of Sodom talked about the strangers, some of the people of Sodom would start to become concerned about Lot’s warning. A crowd gathered at Lot’s house to find out who these strangers were. These concerned citizens couldn’t ask the question, “Are these angels of God, sent to destroy us?” They were too proud and they were not going to give that warning any credibility, so they asked a different question. In a typical arrogant fashion, they asked the question in a very clever way.


The crowd was trying to determine if these strangers were human. They were waiting to see the reaction of Lot and the reaction of the strangers. How did Lot react?


Lot was a righteous man, meaning he was a good man, and he must have loved his daughters greatly. Lot wasn’t actually going to send his daughters out to a mob. This mob was not interested in sex, and Lot knew this. Lot knew they were trying to determine if the visitors were angels. What Lot basically said was, “You can even rape and kill my own daughters, but whatever you do – WHATEVER YOU DO – DON'T MESS WITH THESE STRANGERS!”

Lot was trying to get the mob to back off, but his words confirmed to the crowd that these were angels of God who were sent to destroy them, and the people of Sodom became more hostile.

Notice that Lot went outside to speak to the mob. He even shut the door as if he was going to speak with them privately, away from the angels. Clearly, Lot wasn’t afraid of these people, in fact, he was trying to help them. Lot was trying to get his friends and neighbors to back off, and he wanted to do so without the angels hearing what he said to the crowd, and what the crowd said to him.

This is why Lot had waited at the gate for the angels to arrive so that he would be the one to greet them. Lot wanted to save Sodom otherwise he would have simply fled the city when God or Abraham warned him. Lot wanted to plead for the city of Sodom, but first he had to get the angels to his house, and he also had to keep them away from the people of Sodom who had rejected his warning.

Notice that when the mob threatened Lot, it had nothing to do with sex.


This mob wasn’t after sex. There were upset at being judged by this outsider. They might have tried to escape the city once the reality sunk in that their confrontation was futile. Unfortunately for the people who were gathered at Lot’s house, the angels blinded them so that they had a difficult time even finding the door to Lot’s house.


Religious leaders have portrayed Sodom as a city of brutal homosexuals who went around in mobs raping people. But if Sodom was as barbaric as it has been portrayed it wouldn’t be necessary for God to destroy the city as it would have destroyed itself. A city that lived by trade could not have survived if it had been so violent, and it is inconceivable that Lot would have stuck around if Sodom had been so brutal. The real story of Sodom and Gomorrah is a condemnation of greed and pride.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Yes. But that does not excuse homosexuality. Lot was just weak, although grieved by the behaviour of the Sodomites. Lot chose the security of worldly city life while Abraham chose God's way instead. Lot did not intercede for Sodom. Abraham interceded for Sodom in spite of the evils. Abraham appealed to God's mercy and to a degree, it worked. There were just not enough righteous people.

Way too many Christians live in the world as if they belonged to the world. They are righteous because God has made them to be righteous. Yet they have yet to be separated from the world in their hearts. This is a great shame, because, like Lot, it leaves them weak and leads them to compromise. The initial born again experience gets us out of the world. God's intent is then to get the world out of us. If we cooperate, we will be useful workers in God's kingdom. If we do not turn away from worldly attitudes and pursuits, we will be of little value to God's kingdom.
 
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Quartermaine

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I disagree. Consider this:

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire
Strange flesh is clearly defined in Gen 6. Here we read of a time when the angles or "sons of God" cohabited with the "daughters of man", resulting in a strange progeny called in the Hebrew "nephilim”.

Strange flesh refers to sexual activity between two distinct orders of creation.
 
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Quartermaine

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Homosexuality follows a certain pattern in most cases. It involves a lack of a close connection between a boy and his father or another significant male. Not always but at least nine times out of ten. If you ask most any man who grew up with homosexual tendencies, we will tell you in our boyhoods our fathers were never close to us when we most needed them most.
That isn't born out by research at all.
 
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Dansiph

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Strange flesh is clearly defined in Gen 6. Here we read of a time when the angles or "sons of God" cohabited with the "daughters of man", resulting in a strange progeny called in the Hebrew "nephilim”.

Strange flesh refers to sexual activity between two distinct orders of creation.
I don't believe angels mated with humans. It's not "defined" in my opinion it's mostly speculation. I was taught and believe as in Job 1 that the sons of God are humans who follow God. Why do people go out of their way to excuse homosexual behaviour. It's the only sin people do this for.
 
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The story of Sodom and Gomorrah’s demise begins in the 18th chapter of Genesis when God told Abraham that he would destroy Sodom, but the destruction of the city takes place in the 19th chapter. Lot was the nephew of Abraham, and he lived in Sodom. Lot was a righteous man, but he remained in Sodom until the very end, and many of his actions indicate that he was trying to save Sodom from destruction. Apparently, Lot did not think that Sodom was all that bad.

When God told Abraham that Sodom would be destroyed, Abraham tried to bargain with God to spare the city, which means Abraham did not want to see Sodom destroyed. God agreed not to destroy Sodom if ten righteous men were found in the city. This suggests that sometime between the warning and the destruction, Abraham and/or Lot would have searched the city for ten righteous men since that was the deal. In searching for righteous men, they would certainly try to persuade some not-so-righteous men to be more righteous.

In conducting this search Abraham and/or Lot would have warned the people of the coming destruction since this was their best argument; but the real sins of Sodom were greed and pride; and being greedy, it would be difficult to convince these people to sacrifice some of their wealth to help the poor. Being proud, the people of Sodom would tend to reject any suggestion that their great city was displeasing to God. Abraham was an outsider, and Lot was viewed as an outsider.


When the angels came to destroy the city, Lot was expecting them. Lot even sat at the gates of the city waiting for these angels to arrive. This confirms that either Abraham or God warned Lot which would have led to the search for righteous men in the city. Lot was able to recognize that they were angels, which means that these strangers must have stood out in some way. Other people of Sodom must have also seen the angels, and the arrival of these unusual strangers would have triggered conversations across the city.

As word spread, and the people of Sodom talked about the strangers, some of the people of Sodom would start to become concerned about Lot’s warning. A crowd gathered at Lot’s house to find out who these strangers were. These concerned citizens couldn’t ask the question, “Are these angels of God, sent to destroy us?” They were too proud and they were not going to give that warning any credibility, so they asked a different question. In a typical arrogant fashion, they asked the question in a very clever way.


The crowd was trying to determine if these strangers were human. They were waiting to see the reaction of Lot and the reaction of the strangers. How did Lot react?


Lot was a righteous man, meaning he was a good man, and he must have loved his daughters greatly. Lot wasn’t actually going to send his daughters out to a mob. This mob was not interested in sex, and Lot knew this. Lot knew they were trying to determine if the visitors were angels. What Lot basically said was, “You can even rape and kill my own daughters, but whatever you do – WHATEVER YOU DO – DON'T MESS WITH THESE STRANGERS!”

Lot was trying to get the mob to back off, but his words confirmed to the crowd that these were angels of God who were sent to destroy them, and the people of Sodom became more hostile.

Notice that Lot went outside to speak to the mob. He even shut the door as if he was going to speak with them privately, away from the angels. Clearly, Lot wasn’t afraid of these people, in fact, he was trying to help them. Lot was trying to get his friends and neighbors to back off, and he wanted to do so without the angels hearing what he said to the crowd, and what the crowd said to him.

This is why Lot had waited at the gate for the angels to arrive so that he would be the one to greet them. Lot wanted to save Sodom otherwise he would have simply fled the city when God or Abraham warned him. Lot wanted to plead for the city of Sodom, but first he had to get the angels to his house, and he also had to keep them away from the people of Sodom who had rejected his warning.

Notice that when the mob threatened Lot, it had nothing to do with sex.


This mob wasn’t after sex. There were upset at being judged by this outsider. They might have tried to escape the city once the reality sunk in that their confrontation was futile. Unfortunately for the people who were gathered at Lot’s house, the angels blinded them so that they had a difficult time even finding the door to Lot’s house.


Religious leaders have portrayed Sodom as a city of brutal homosexuals who went around in mobs raping people. But if Sodom was as barbaric as it has been portrayed it wouldn’t be necessary for God to destroy the city as it would have destroyed itself. A city that lived by trade could not have survived if it had been so violent, and it is inconceivable that Lot would have stuck around if Sodom had been so brutal. The real story of Sodom and Gomorrah is a condemnation of greed and pride.
I'm not going to try to say if you are right or wrong, or correct or not correct or not, etc, but if it were true, or you were correct, etc, I wonder if these kinds of sin that led to none of them being left righteous, etc, were the same kinds of sins that we are doing and/or headed towards now today, etc, and that occurred right before the flood also, etc...?

Luke 17:20-37...

Highlights from it:

Luke 17:26-30- "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage (carrying on in their sin, etc), until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. Likewise, (also) (or as another example that is still very much the same example, or problem or issue, etc) Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, (carrying on in their sin, etc) but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all, so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed."

(Or when the last of the last days have come and/or arrived, etc)...

Check the whole context though, Luke 17:20-37...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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I'm not going to try to say if you are right or wrong, or correct or not correct or not, etc, but if it were true, or you were correct, etc, I wonder if these kinds of sin that led to none of them being left righteous, etc, were the same kinds of sins that we are doing and/or headed towards now today, etc, and that occurred right before the flood also, etc...?

Luke 17:20-37...

Highlights from it:

Luke 17:26-30- "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage (carrying on in their sin, etc), until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. Likewise, (also) (or as another example that is still very much the same example, or problem or issue, etc) Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, (carrying on in their sin, etc) but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all, so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed."

(Or when the last of the last days have come and/or arrived, etc)...

Check the whole context though, Luke 17:20-37...

God Bless!
Those verses (Luke 17:20-37) are so chalked full of so much information (and wisdom and warning) that I hardly know where to begin... or end, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Strange flesh refers to sexual activity between two distinct orders of creation.

Or two different species of humans, one created, and one evolved, and one a little bit higher, or maybe very much higher, etc, but still kind of human, etc, still had "flesh", etc, and then one lesser, etc, or that used to be very much lesser, etc, but that's a story I will save for another time, even though it perfectly solves the whole creation/evolution debate that I've tried to tell others about before, etc, and explains the inter-mating or inter-breeding, etc, and their offspring, etc, and where all the "tall tales of the ancient past" comes from, etc, and some of the pagan religions and their theology/ideology/philosophies back then, etc, or some of their thoughts and/or thinking and/or concepts or ideas back then, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Or two different species of humans, one created, and one evolved, and one a little bit higher, or maybe very much higher, etc, but still kind of human, etc, still had "flesh", etc, and then one lesser, etc, or that used to be very much lesser, etc, but that's a story I will save for another time, even though it perfectly solves the whole creation/evolution debate that I've tried to tell others about before, etc, and explains the inter-mating or inter-breeding, etc, and their offspring, etc, and where all the "tall tales of the ancient past" comes from, etc, and some of the pagan religions and their theology/ideology/philosophies back then, etc, or some of their thoughts and/or thinking and/or concepts or ideas back then, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
Whether or not the flood was completely global or not, or just regional, like to say, only the locale of the middle eastern region, etc, I do not know, but I do believe the flood completely wiped out all the true Sons of God, or direct descendants of Adam (and Eve) at that time, as they were all still localized there, etc, at that time, etc...

Apparently it did not wipe out all the Nephilim though, as we seemed to still have some of them still left after that, etc... That were produced by their (The Sons of God(s)) sin, etc... The Nephilim, etc...

I think the flood wiped out civilizations like the ancient Sumerians, or happened right around that time, etc, or right during or immediately after their time, etc, or might have been how they and others like them in that region around that time, etc, were destroyed and/or wiped out, and many of them might have been some of the original true Sons of God, etc, but after being kicked out of the Garden of Eden, but original true Sons of Adam, etc...

But I think part of the purpose of the flood was to completely wipe out all of the "pure breeds", etc, or what was left of all the still pure breeds, etc, or original Sons of God, etc...

And that (Sumer) (before the flood) might have been the original "Ur", etc, or the "Ur" that existed before the flood, etc, or "Proto-Babel or Babylon", etc, where some of the true original Sons of God, and direct descendants of Adam (and Eve) might have been or dwelt, or built and dwelt in after being kicked out of the Garden, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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The story of Sodom and Gomorrah’s demise begins in the 18th chapter of Genesis when God told Abraham that he would destroy Sodom, but the destruction of the city takes place in the 19th chapter. Lot was the nephew of Abraham, and he lived in Sodom. Lot was a righteous man, but he remained in Sodom until the very end, and many of his actions indicate that he was trying to save Sodom from destruction. Apparently, Lot did not think that Sodom was all that bad.

When God told Abraham that Sodom would be destroyed, Abraham tried to bargain with God to spare the city, which means Abraham did not want to see Sodom destroyed. God agreed not to destroy Sodom if ten righteous men were found in the city. This suggests that sometime between the warning and the destruction, Abraham and/or Lot would have searched the city for ten righteous men since that was the deal. In searching for righteous men, they would certainly try to persuade some not-so-righteous men to be more righteous.

In conducting this search Abraham and/or Lot would have warned the people of the coming destruction since this was their best argument; but the real sins of Sodom were greed and pride; and being greedy, it would be difficult to convince these people to sacrifice some of their wealth to help the poor. Being proud, the people of Sodom would tend to reject any suggestion that their great city was displeasing to God. Abraham was an outsider, and Lot was viewed as an outsider.


When the angels came to destroy the city, Lot was expecting them. Lot even sat at the gates of the city waiting for these angels to arrive. This confirms that either Abraham or God warned Lot which would have led to the search for righteous men in the city. Lot was able to recognize that they were angels, which means that these strangers must have stood out in some way. Other people of Sodom must have also seen the angels, and the arrival of these unusual strangers would have triggered conversations across the city.

As word spread, and the people of Sodom talked about the strangers, some of the people of Sodom would start to become concerned about Lot’s warning. A crowd gathered at Lot’s house to find out who these strangers were. These concerned citizens couldn’t ask the question, “Are these angels of God, sent to destroy us?” They were too proud and they were not going to give that warning any credibility, so they asked a different question. In a typical arrogant fashion, they asked the question in a very clever way.


The crowd was trying to determine if these strangers were human. They were waiting to see the reaction of Lot and the reaction of the strangers. How did Lot react?


Lot was a righteous man, meaning he was a good man, and he must have loved his daughters greatly. Lot wasn’t actually going to send his daughters out to a mob. This mob was not interested in sex, and Lot knew this. Lot knew they were trying to determine if the visitors were angels. What Lot basically said was, “You can even rape and kill my own daughters, but whatever you do – WHATEVER YOU DO – DON'T MESS WITH THESE STRANGERS!”

Lot was trying to get the mob to back off, but his words confirmed to the crowd that these were angels of God who were sent to destroy them, and the people of Sodom became more hostile.

Notice that Lot went outside to speak to the mob. He even shut the door as if he was going to speak with them privately, away from the angels. Clearly, Lot wasn’t afraid of these people, in fact, he was trying to help them. Lot was trying to get his friends and neighbors to back off, and he wanted to do so without the angels hearing what he said to the crowd, and what the crowd said to him.

This is why Lot had waited at the gate for the angels to arrive so that he would be the one to greet them. Lot wanted to save Sodom otherwise he would have simply fled the city when God or Abraham warned him. Lot wanted to plead for the city of Sodom, but first he had to get the angels to his house, and he also had to keep them away from the people of Sodom who had rejected his warning.

Notice that when the mob threatened Lot, it had nothing to do with sex.


This mob wasn’t after sex. There were upset at being judged by this outsider. They might have tried to escape the city once the reality sunk in that their confrontation was futile. Unfortunately for the people who were gathered at Lot’s house, the angels blinded them so that they had a difficult time even finding the door to Lot’s house.


Religious leaders have portrayed Sodom as a city of brutal homosexuals who went around in mobs raping people. But if Sodom was as barbaric as it has been portrayed it wouldn’t be necessary for God to destroy the city as it would have destroyed itself. A city that lived by trade could not have survived if it had been so violent, and it is inconceivable that Lot would have stuck around if Sodom had been so brutal. The real story of Sodom and Gomorrah is a condemnation of greed and pride.
Sodoms destruction Isnt a story, it’s an account (Matt 10:15) and it was more than greed or pride. The men of sodom wanted sex with lot’s guests
 
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