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The Re-Making of Earth: Our Eternal Destination - Not Heaven!

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Josephus, May 26, 2002.

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  1. Josephus

    Josephus <b>Co-Founder Christian Forums</b> Supporter

    +230
    Messianic
    It is my experience over the last few months that some Christians are clueless as to the final state of all things.

    It is a common misconception to believe that we will be forever in Heaven after we die. This is only partially true. For now, it is correct to say that when a believer dies, they go to Heaven - or Paradise. Jesus mentions this to the thief on the cross on that dreadful night he paid for our sins.

    But elsewhere, and throughout the whole of scripture concerning what the final state of all things will be:

    Isaiah quotes God saying "Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth" Isaiah 65:17


    In Revelation, God delcares, "Behold! I am making everything new!" Revelation 21:5.

    Peter said it is "keeping with his promise [that] we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness." 2 Peter 3:13.


    but the most powerful statement to our final condition is from Jesus himself:

    "Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life." - Matthew 28:19.

    I think Jesus has answered our inquiry. :)

    The final state can only be that which God intended Creation to be in the first place: Heaven on Earth! Paradise Restored! Eden once again! Forever!
     
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  2. kern

    kern Miserere Nobis

    +7
    Catholic
    And this time we won't be able to eat the fruit of knowledge?

    Also, I've seen some people say that the thief verse should be written as "truly I tell you today, that you shall be with me in Paradise" (so the "today" refers to the time Jesus is telling the person, not the time the thief will be in paradise.) What do you think?

    -Chris
     
  3. Chili

    Chili Member

    163
    +0
    New wine in new skins and not just new wine in old skins. The transformation of body mind and soul will be heaven on earth.

    This will be completed with the convergence of the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life into one source for life to have life to the fullest. Paradise is restored and the serpent is raised into the Tree of Life.
     
  4. KraKto$is8

    KraKto$is8 God's Servant

    47
    +0
    Hmmm.. Jehova's Witnesses Believe something along these lines.

    all of these are referring to re-spiritualising the worlds, to put things into order for a while


    and in the Adam and Eve story, Eden is the symbolic Heaven. It's all symbolic.
     
  5. Josephus

    Josephus <b>Co-Founder Christian Forums</b> Supporter

    +230
    Messianic
    As a Jew, I've never heard any Hebrew scholar ever say that Eden in the bible was ever a symbolic place. There is nothing in the text to indicate that at all.
     
  6. lared

    lared Active Member

    936
    +12
    New heavens refer to new governmental arrangement. Gone will be human rulership. The meek that shall inherit the earth will live under God's kingdom which is a very real government located in heaven. The new earth refers to a new human society made up of the meek that shall inherit the earth. Nothing is wrong with the literal planet earth. It is the wicked human society that must go. Hope this helps.
     
  7. KraKto$is8

    KraKto$is8 God's Servant

    47
    +0
    Yes, but there is also nothing which says it is not a symbolic place. And im my humble opinion, it makes more sense as a symbolic place.
     
  8. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

    402
    +0
    "For now, it is correct to say that when a believer dies, they go to Heaven - or Paradise."

    I disagree. It is incorrect to say this.
    What happened to Eutychus after he died? Did "he" go to heaven only for Paul to come moments later and pluck "him" out of heaven to return to his body on the earth?

    The crown of righteousness for Paul, was "laid up" for him until the return of Jesus. Jesus returns the 2nd time to give rewards.

    God is the "God of the living," not because of immortal souls wafting to heaven upon physical death, but because of a resurrection from the dead.
     
  9. lared

    lared Active Member

    936
    +12
    Eden was a real geographical area here on Earth. Why in fact, Genesis even gives it location, located near four rivers. Genesis 2:10-14 mentions a river that is still in existance....the Euphrates River, I am not sure about the other three. No doubt, the flood in Noah's day wiped away this literal Garden of Eden.
     
  10. KraKto$is8

    KraKto$is8 God's Servant

    47
    +0
    Is there any archaeological evidence of this former garden?
     
  11. lared

    lared Active Member

    936
    +12
    The original site of the garden of Eden is conjectural. The principal means of identifying its geographic location is the Bible's description of the river "issuing out of Eden," which thereafter divided into four "heads," producing the rivers named as the Euphrates, Hiddekel, Pishon, and Gihon. (Ge 2:10-14) The Euphrates (Heb., Perath') is well known, and "Hiddekel" is the name used for the Tigris in ancient inscriptions. (Compare also Da 10:4.) The other two rivers, the Pishon and the Gihon, however, are unidentified.

    Some, such as Calvin and Delitzsch, have argued in favor of Eden's situation somewhere near the head of the Persian Gulf in Lower Mesopotamia, approximately at the place where the Tigris and the Euphrates draw near together. They associated the Pishon and Gihon with canals between these streams. However, this would make these rivers tributaries, rather than branches dividing off from an original source. The Hebrew text points, rather, to a location in the mountainous region N of the Mesopotamian plains, the area where the Euphrates and Tigris rivers have their present sources. Thus The Anchor Bible (1964), in its notes on Genesis 2:10, states: "In Heb[rew] the mouth of the river is called 'end' (Josh xv 5, <G<Þ>G>Jos <G<Ü>G>xviii 19); hence the plural of ro´s 'head' must refer here to the upper course. . . . This latter usage is well attested for the Akk[adian] cognate resu." The fact that the Euphrates and Tigris rivers do not now proceed from a single source, as well as the impossibility of definitely determining the identification of the Pishon and Gihon rivers, is possibly explained by the effects of the Noachian Flood, which undoubtedly altered considerably the topographical features of the earth, filling in the courses of some rivers and creating others.

    The traditional location for the garden of Eden has long been suggested to have been a mountainous area some 225 km (140 mi) SW of Mount Ararat and a few kilometers S of Lake Van, in the eastern part of modern Turkey. That Eden may have been surrounded by some natural barrier, such as mountains, could be suggested by the fact that cherubs are stated to have been stationed only at the E of the garden, from which point Adam and Eve made their exit.-Ge 3:24.

    After Adam's banishment from the paradisaic garden, with no one to "cultivate it and to take care of it," it may be assumed that it merely grew up in natural profusion with only the animals to inhabit its confines until it was obliterated by the surging waters of the Flood, its location lost to man except for the divine record of its existence.-Ge 2:15.
     
  12. UnderdogEnt

    UnderdogEnt Prayer Warrior

    79
    +0
    The Great Flood of the Bible would most definitely have changed the rivers, destroying some, creating others. Although the Tigris and the Euphrates were named in the Bible, it is most likely that after the flood, people named the newly formed rivers after the old ones, much as many of the places in the New World were given names after European cities and countries by the explorers. For instance: New England, New York, etc. Also, because man has been blocked from the garden since the fall and will be until God restores perfection to everything, we cannot find it.
     
  13. KraKto$is8

    KraKto$is8 God's Servant

    47
    +0
    I'm sorry, but that doesn't seem to make sence.
     
  14. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    766
    +6
    Christian
    I think this article will help.

    What does the phrase “new heavens and new earth” (2 Pet. 3:13) mean?

    There are two views concerning the meaning of the phrase, “new heavens and new earth.” Since they represent opposing viewpoints, one of them obviously is false. The phrase means either a “renewed earth,” or it is a figurative expression for “heaven” itself.


    The Premillennial View
    Many religious groups advocate the doctrine of premillennialism. There are, however, different forms of premillennialism. For instance, The Watchtower Society, the Seventh-day Adventists, and many Protestant denominations, hold to some form of millennialism. Yet they have significant differences between them.

    Although it is not our intent to deal with the theory of premillennialism extensively, we note that those who believe in that dogma envision the “new heavens and new earth” as a literal earth, cleansed by fire.

    Consider what Peter wrote.

    First, the “heavens and earth” of the present are reserved for fire against the “day of judgment” (2 Pet. 3:7).

    Second, the Judgment will come unexpectedly and suddenly. The heavens and earth will pass away with a great noise, the elements will dissolve with fervent heat, and the earth and its works shall be consumed (2 Pet. 3:10, 12).

    Third, after the Judgment, there will be the “new heavens and new earth.”

    Notice what Peter did not say. He did not say that the earth would be refurbished to be an earthly paradise. He did not say that the Lord would reign upon the earth. He did not say that anyone would inhabit earth after the Second Coming. No biblical writer affirms any of these ideas.


    The “Heavenly” View
    Consistent with New Testament teaching concerning “final things,” the phrase “new heavens and new earth” stands for the saved environment, following the Judgment Day; this environment is more commonly called “heaven” (Mt. 6:19-20).

    John wrote, “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more” (Rev. 21:12). The expression “heaven and earth” stands for a place of existence – our familiar environment, i.e., land and sky. But what John saw was not the first heaven and earth. It was gone. So, he describes, in symbolic fashion, the place of the realm of the saved, where they shall reign “for ever and ever” – not a mere 1,000 years.

    This environment of the saved is simply heaven. Paul wrote that our citizenship is in heaven (Phil. 3:20). The apostle also said that we have one hope, and that our hope is in heaven (Eph. 4:4; Col. 1:5).

    In every respect, heaven will be characterized by newness. It is a place never before inhabited by Christians. It is the first time the saved, in a glorified state, will be in the very presence of God – face to face (cf. 1 Jn. 3:2; Rev. 22:4). This new state, where sin and death are no more, will be the eternal abode of the saved when the Lord returns, and the living are caught up with the redeemed of all ages to be with the Lord forever (cf. 1 Thes. 4:13-18).
     
  15. Peacebestill

    Peacebestill JESUS IS LORD

    725
    +40
    Christian
    Married
    John 14:1-3
    1 "Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

    Revelation 21:1-8
    1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them;
     
  16. shastajade

    shastajade New Member

    59
    +5
    Christian
    Heaven is like a holding place for the saints until God creates the new heaven and earth spoken of in Revelation (the apocolypse). Once the earth is re-made, that is where christians will spend eternity. But there will be no evil, there will be no fruit tree, and we won't have to worry about sin. We will still be able to rebel if we decide, cuz we'll still have a free will, but we more than likely won't, then again, you'd think the most awesome angel God ever created wouldn't either, but he did. So i guess while im writing this, im wondering now if there will be a possibility of another rising evil once the new earth is made. if anyone has any thoughts on this one let me know, cuz as confident as i was at the beginning of writing this, im kinda wondering now. Hehe
     
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