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First off, I'm kinda new at this posting on discussion boards that is, but I'm trying to explain to my fellow Christians about the Rapture Theory and why it's kinda dangerous to our survival. I've written my first book on the subject called; The Truth About The Rapture (What Some Pastors Don't Want You To Know) We have to be prepared for what's to come. Over 90% of the church is waiting to be taken up out of their troubles and that's not Bible. We have to prepare.
 

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~Anastasia~

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First off, I'm kinda new at this posting on discussion boards that is, but I'm trying to explain to my fellow Christians about the Rapture Theory and why it's kinda dangerous to our survival. I've written my first book on the subject called; The Truth About The Rapture (What Some Pastors Don't Want You To Know) We have to be prepared for what's to come. Over 90% of the church is waiting to be taken up out of their troubles and that's not Bible. We have to prepare.

I agree with you, since the rapture theory is a recent innovation. It was never what Christianity believed regarding end times and the second coming of Christ.

But like so many other things, the perception of "Christianity as a whole" is a bit skewed. In the US, I think this is the strongest misrepresentation. What I mean is that 90% of Christians do NOT believe this ... only perhaps 90% of a certain segment of Christianity.

By all means, fight the good fight. Even when I attended Baptist, Pentecostal, and non-denominational fellowships, I also viewed rapture theory as potentially dangerous. God be with you, my brother.
 
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JackRT

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I believe it to be intellectually, emotionally and spiritually unhealthy to live your life in constant expectation of the "end times". It is far better to live your life in such a way as to make this a better world, not just today but into the far distant future.
 
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Dartman

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I believe it to be intellectually, emotionally and spiritually unhealthy to live your life in constant expectation of the "end times". It is far better to live your life in such a way as to make this a better world, not just today but into the far distant future.
Then why did Jesus repeatedly warn his followers to "watch", to be "ready"?
Matt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

The Christian must do both.
We must watch (be prepared for) Christ's return. AND, we must use each minute of each day to be a light to those around us. Educating them about Christ's return, and helping them "watch".

The notion of "the rapture", as a "pre-tribulation" escape for the faithful, is not Scriptural.
The promise that Jesus is going to return to this planet, and completely destroy the governments of this world, replacing them with his own world government, is PURE Scripture.
The believer MUST be ready and watching.
 
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awitch

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But like so many other things, the perception of "Christianity as a whole" is a bit skewed. In the US, I think this is the strongest misrepresentation. What I mean is that 90% of Christians do NOT believe this ... only perhaps 90% of a certain segment of Christianity.

Rapture talks seems to have died down a bit in the last few years in the US. I guess people figured it wasn't going to happen as we got closer to the end of Obama's second term since it was usually framed with his administration any time I heard about it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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TheOldWays

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Rapture talks seems to have died down a bit in the last few years in the US. I guess people figured it wasn't going to happen as we got closer to the end of Obama's second term since it was usually framed with his administration any time I heard about it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

People always try and attribute their 'end times' to world leaders. Bush, Obama, Trump. I also remember the big 'hoopla' when Pope Francis came to power that that was some kind of sign because he was a Jesuit.
 
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Zoness

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Rapture talks seems to have died down a bit in the last few years in the US. I guess people figured it wasn't going to happen as we got closer to the end of Obama's second term since it was usually framed with his administration any time I heard about it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Even back in my Christian days I did not take the idea of the rapture seriously. It always seemed a bit unorthodox and wasn't a part of historical Christian teaching.
 
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havevisions

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I am not clear on when the rapture is. I don't think its pre-tribulation.
Why is there predominantly 3 views? Pre, mid or post? Why not the 5th year of Daniels 70th week, for instance? I was just wondering, I'm not a bible scholar, but I am a member of a church, and I haven't heard a sermon on the rapture in years, and I feel that I am extremely uninformed.
 
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From my knowledge of Scripture I think it will be more mid-tribulation. Is that the conclusion you have come to as well?
Can you give a short answer or scripture of why you believe that?
I was wondering because in Rev 14 (which is after the tribulation period) the One like the son of Man , with a crown on His head is Jesus obviously, and He is using the sickle to reap the harvest (those on earth who've survived the tribulation). So how can this be mid-trib?
 
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PropheticTimes

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Can you give a short answer or scripture of why you believe that?
I was wondering because in Rev 14 (which is after the tribulation period) the One like the son of Man , with a crown on His head is Jesus obviously, and He is using the sickle to reap the harvest (those on earth who've survived the tribulation). So how can this be mid-trib?

1. The events of the end will be preceded by the signs of the end, as indicated in the Eschatological Discourse (Matt. 24:1-18, 29-31; Mark 13:1-23, 24-27; Luke 21:5-24, 25-28). This twofold division is paralleled in both Daniel (Dan. 7:25, 9:24-27, 12:7-12) and in Revelation (Rev. 11:2-3, 12:6, 12:14, 13:5). The division in half is also represented by the distinctive narratives contained in the scroll (Rev. 5:1) and the little scroll (Rev. 10:1). The first scroll describes the signs of the end, in which the seven seals (Rev. 5-9) precisely parallel the signs of the end in the Eschatological Discourse; the little scroll describes the events of the end (Rev. 10-22).

2. The signs of the end will inaugurate the tribulation, described in Revelation as the seven seals and the seven trumpets (Rev. 5-9). The tribulation will involve suffering and difficulty for believers and unbelievers alike, although Christians will be spared the wrath of God (Rom. 5:9). This tribulation will last three and one half years (Dan. 7:25, 9:24-27, 12:7-12, Rev. 11:2-3, 12:6, 12:14, 13:5). It is possible that the three and one half years may symbolize an indefinite period, although the accounts seem to specify a very specific period even to the number of days. At any rate, there will be a period marked off for the tribulation.

Because the signs of the end are events that happen periodically to some degree at all times, it will not be clear even to those who are undergoing the tribulation the precise moment of its beginning. The gradual worsening of events may be suggestive but not determinative of being in the tribulation. We may be in the tribulation now. However, like a frog in a slowly heated pot, those undergoing the tribulation may not discern the meaning of the events. The beginning of the tribulation would not be clearly noticed, thus no one would be able to set accurately the date of the events of the end based on the date of the beginning of the signs of the end. One can thus expect the return of Christ as immanent at any time.

3. When all the signs of the end spoken of in all the eschatology passages (Daniel, Eschatological Discourse, Thessalonians, and Revelation) have been fulfilled, the events of the end will begin. The events of the end will be inaugurated with the shout of the archangel, the return of Jesus Christ in clouds with great glory, and the premillennial rapture of the church. The striking similarity of the language used and events described in Revelation 14, Daniel, the Eschatological Discourse, and 1 Thessalonians makes it clear that this is the scriptural locus of the rapture.

Other mid-tribulationalists place the rapture at the sounding of the seventh trumpet (Rev.11:15). They cite the evidence that in previous songs praising Christ, He has been described as"He who was, who is, and who is to come" (Rev. 1:4, 8; 4:8). Now the elders praise Him as "Hewas was, and is" (Rev. 11:17), suggesting that He has already come. The mid-tribulational viewplacing the rapture in Revelation 14 would likewise take this verse as an accurate indication thatthe events which are taking place in the immediate context suggest the events surrounding thereturn of Christ.

4. While the saints enjoy their rest, the bowls of wrath will be poured out on the unbelievers who remain on the earth (Rev. 14:17-18:24). This is the Great Tribulation, which will have many similarities with the plagues which were poured out on Egypt before the exodus. The Great Tribulation will last the second three and one half years in length, which again may be literal or symbolic.

5. After the Great Tribulation, Christ will come again in the second advent to establish His millennial reign, perform the final judgment, and usher in the eternal destinies of heaven and hell.

THE BIBLICAL CASE FOR MID-TRIBULATIONALISM
 
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Then why did Jesus repeatedly warn his followers to "watch", to be "ready"?
Matt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

We don't know when the Parousia will happen, which is why Christians ought to be faithful and diligent, the parable of the talents specifically points to the fact that we shouldn't be sitting around wasting our time, but ought to be about doing the Lord's work in the world.

Being ready, watching, being diligent isn't waiting around for the world to end while twiddling our thumbs; it's faithfully being a Christian, loving our neighbor, preaching the Gospel, serving Christ as we look forward in hopeful anticipation of the day He comes, in glory, and all things are made new.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Over 90% where? Isn't that just a fringe thing?

Yep. The overwhelming vast majority of Christians don't believe in it; it arose as a novelty doctrine in the early 1800's among the Plymouth Brethren led by an ex-priest of the Church of Ireland, John Nelson Darby; though the original Darbyist version was that only a special elect few Christians would be raptured away; more formal Dispensationalist teaching seems to have arisen largely from individuals such as Cyrus Scofield, Dwight L. Moody, and others; it is also these two who popularized it in the United States; Moody in particular as a traveling evangelist and who founded his own Bible school and Scofield by his Scofield Reference Bible which was for a time one of the most popular study Bibles in the US. This is also why it is a nearly ubiquitous idea in the United States, but outside of the US it's exceedingly rare except among churches founded by Dispensationalist missionaries or otherwise influenced by popular American Evangelical culture.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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I am not clear on when the rapture is. I don't think its pre-tribulation.
Why is there predominantly 3 views? Pre, mid or post? Why not the 5th year of Daniels 70th week, for instance? I was just wondering, I'm not a bible scholar, but I am a member of a church, and I haven't heard a sermon on the rapture in years, and I feel that I am extremely uninformed.

Besides pre, mid, and post there's a fourth view, which is also the majority view among Christians--none. That is, there is no "rapture". Christ comes, not to take the Church out of the world, but instead in glory, as judge of the living and the dead; 1 Thessalonians ch. 4 isn't talking about Jesus coming to remove Christians from the world and take them up into heaven, but is about Jesus coming down to earth, the catching up of the Faithful to meet Jesus isn't about us going up into heaven, but about us meeting the Lord as He comes down here. The picture being painted is that of a royal entourage going out of the city to greet and celebrate a returning monarch, a great crowd going out of the city to meet him and escort him back into the city. The Greek word parousia, translated as "coming" or "appearing" can be translated as both because it suggests looking out toward the distance as something appears, arriving, and coming near. The parousia, therefore, is the coming of Christ, His return, from heaven to earth at the consummation of history. As C.S. Lewis once said, "When the playwright steps upon the stage, the play is over."

-CryptoLutheran
 
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cloudyday2

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I read an Eastern Orthodox book that claimed the common Protestant interpretation of Revelation as a prediction/description of future "end times" is not Orthodox. I don't remember what the book claimed was the Orthodox interpretation of Revelation. Maybe somebody else here knows?
 
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havevisions

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1. The events of the end will be preceded by the signs of the end, as indicated in the Eschatological Discourse (Matt. 24:1-18, 29-31; Mark 13:1-23, 24-27; Luke 21:5-24, 25-28). This twofold division is paralleled in both Daniel (Dan. 7:25, 9:24-27, 12:7-12) and in Revelation (Rev. 11:2-3, 12:6, 12:14, 13:5). The division in half is also represented by the distinctive narratives contained in the scroll (Rev. 5:1) and the little scroll (Rev. 10:1). The first scroll describes the signs of the end, in which the seven seals (Rev. 5-9) precisely parallel the signs of the end in the Eschatological Discourse; the little scroll describes the events of the end (Rev. 10-22).

2. The signs of the end will inaugurate the tribulation, described in Revelation as the seven seals and the seven trumpets (Rev. 5-9). The tribulation will involve suffering and difficulty for believers and unbelievers alike, although Christians will be spared the wrath of God (Rom. 5:9). This tribulation will last three and one half years (Dan. 7:25, 9:24-27, 12:7-12, Rev. 11:2-3, 12:6, 12:14, 13:5). It is possible that the three and one half years may symbolize an indefinite period, although the accounts seem to specify a very specific period even to the number of days. At any rate, there will be a period marked off for the tribulation.

Because the signs of the end are events that happen periodically to some degree at all times, it will not be clear even to those who are undergoing the tribulation the precise moment of its beginning. The gradual worsening of events may be suggestive but not determinative of being in the tribulation. We may be in the tribulation now. However, like a frog in a slowly heated pot, those undergoing the tribulation may not discern the meaning of the events. The beginning of the tribulation would not be clearly noticed, thus no one would be able to set accurately the date of the events of the end based on the date of the beginning of the signs of the end. One can thus expect the return of Christ as immanent at any time.

3. When all the signs of the end spoken of in all the eschatology passages (Daniel, Eschatological Discourse, Thessalonians, and Revelation) have been fulfilled, the events of the end will begin. The events of the end will be inaugurated with the shout of the archangel, the return of Jesus Christ in clouds with great glory, and the premillennial rapture of the church. The striking similarity of the language used and events described in Revelation 14, Daniel, the Eschatological Discourse, and 1 Thessalonians makes it clear that this is the scriptural locus of the rapture.

Other mid-tribulationalists place the rapture at the sounding of the seventh trumpet (Rev.11:15). They cite the evidence that in previous songs praising Christ, He has been described as"He who was, who is, and who is to come" (Rev. 1:4, 8; 4:8). Now the elders praise Him as "Hewas was, and is" (Rev. 11:17), suggesting that He has already come. The mid-tribulational viewplacing the rapture in Revelation 14 would likewise take this verse as an accurate indication thatthe events which are taking place in the immediate context suggest the events surrounding thereturn of Christ.

4. While the saints enjoy their rest, the bowls of wrath will be poured out on the unbelievers who remain on the earth (Rev. 14:17-18:24). This is the Great Tribulation, which will have many similarities with the plagues which were poured out on Egypt before the exodus. The Great Tribulation will last the second three and one half years in length, which again may be literal or symbolic.

5. After the Great Tribulation, Christ will come again in the second advent to establish His millennial reign, perform the final judgment, and usher in the eternal destinies of heaven and hell.

THE BIBLICAL CASE FOR MID-TRIBULATIONALISM
 
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I don't mean to be argumentative, but I couldn't get past the first two because I got stuck on a couple of things relating to the scriptures you listed.

1. In Matthew 24, 29-31 as you mentioned, it begins "Immediately after the tribulation,... they (His angels) will gather together the elect from the four winds......"
Am I missing something here, or is that not pretty clear - that the rapture is AFTER the tribulation?

2. You also mentioned Rom 5:9. I don't see how this is connected. I read the verses before and after, from Rom 5: 1-11 and those verses are about our justification, that is our salvation and reconciliation because of Christ's work, and so it seems to me that the "wrath" referred to is the wrath of being lost and what the lost will have to endure without Christ. How is it that rapture is implied in that?
 
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