The Rapture - heretical teaching

IS THE RAPTURE A HERETICAL TEACHING?

  • YES

  • NO


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This is a nonsense argument. You avoid a problem you cannot answer by citing a different scripture where the problem does not exist? There is also nothing about it in Genesis 1:1. But neither reference has any bearing whatsoever on the problem.

Are you ever going to answer me, or are you going to continue to try to talk your way around the problem that the only way to explain the reversal of order between Matthew 13 and Matthew 25 is that they are speaking of two different times?

The order in which these parables are told honestly does not matter because both the tares and the unprepared virgins are false Christians and/or false doctrines.

Only Jesus uses two different imageries to explain the same principal... a harvest and a wedding.
 
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n2thelight

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Matthew 24:31 is speaking of the gathering of the righteous when Jesus comes on power and glory, after the tribulation. Matthew 25:10 speaks of his gathering of the righteous before the tribulation.

I think you have it wrong,nobody goes anywhere nor does Christ return until after the tribulation....So let's look at Matthew 25

Matthew 25:10 "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut."

One must really really understand what the end times are all about,and that is deception,period........

At midnight the door was shut, it was midnight, and you were either in or out, there was no changing of mind, for at that moment those that knew the truth, and had the oil absolutely could not be fooled, and all others that had not the truth, could not get it. There was a complete blackout for the truth, or oil, and the only oil on the market was for "strange fire" that led you to the Antichrist.

When the Antichrist comes to earth, with his locust army of fallen angels, God is going to turn those that have not the truth over to Satan, the Antichrist, and only those seal with the oil of truth in their minds are to be protected. Revelation 9:4; "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only the those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."

The seal is the oil, the truth of God, and the the lamps are where the oil is kept, and that is in your mind, which is in your forehead. The foolish virgins are lacking the knowledge of the truth of God to know the difference between the two Christ, Jesus Christ and the Antichrist, and before they have the time to obtain the truth, it will be to late. The door is shut by the Almighty God Himself, and it is He that will cause you to go whoring after the wrong husband.

You can take on the true oil now, however at the instant of the sounding of the fifth trumpet, and Satan the Antichrist and his fallen angels are cast out of heaven, it is to late, the door is slammed shut.

There is a war in heaven going on right now, and at the appointed time, as Jesus told us in Revelation 12:7-9, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, " [7] "And prevailed not, neither was there place found any more in heaven." [8] "And The great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth , and his angels were cast out with him." [9]
When Satan arrives in person, the door is shut, and the whole world except those sealed with the oil of God, the Word of God, and know the truth, are given over to Satan, and his hoards of locust army [fallen angels] . Then it is to late. !!!!!

Matthew 25 is not about,being raptured,it's about knowing the truth,before it's to late....
 
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I think you have it wrong,nobody goes anywhere nor does Christ return until after the tribulation....So let's look at Matthew 25

Matthew 25:10 "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut."

One must really really understand what the end times are all about,and that is deception,period........

At midnight the door was shut, it was midnight, and you were either in or out, there was no changing of mind, for at that moment those that knew the truth, and had the oil absolutely could not be fooled, and all others that had not the truth, could not get it. There was a complete blackout for the truth, or oil, and the only oil on the market was for "strange fire" that led you to the Antichrist.

When the Antichrist comes to earth, with his locust army of fallen angels, God is going to turn those that have not the truth over to Satan, the Antichrist, and only those seal with the oil of truth in their minds are to be protected. Revelation 9:4; "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only the those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."

The seal is the oil, the truth of God, and the the lamps are where the oil is kept, and that is in your mind, which is in your forehead. The foolish virgins are lacking the knowledge of the truth of God to know the difference between the two Christ, Jesus Christ and the Antichrist, and before they have the time to obtain the truth, it will be to late. The door is shut by the Almighty God Himself, and it is He that will cause you to go whoring after the wrong husband.

You can take on the true oil now, however at the instant of the sounding of the fifth trumpet, and Satan the Antichrist and his fallen angels are cast out of heaven, it is to late, the door is slammed shut.

There is a war in heaven going on right now, and at the appointed time, as Jesus told us in Revelation 12:7-9, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, " [7] "And prevailed not, neither was there place found any more in heaven." [8] "And The great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth , and his angels were cast out with him." [9]
When Satan arrives in person, the door is shut, and the whole world except those sealed with the oil of God, the Word of God, and know the truth, are given over to Satan, and his hoards of locust army [fallen angels] . Then it is to late. !!!!!

Matthew 25 is not about,being raptured,it's about knowing the truth,before it's to late....

I believe you are entirely correct in equating "the door was shut" (Matthew 25:10) with the unbelieving world being turned over "that they all may be condemned, who did not believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:12)

But you are neglecting that in Matthew 25:10, the door was not shut until after "those who were ready went in with him to the wedding."

"And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut." (Matthew 25:10)

But you are forgetting
 
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iamlamad

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Even Mr. Th. Kliefoth in his Das Buch Daniel 1868 miss-interpreted the burden of Daniel, yet validly interpreted Dan.9:24: "covers the time from the time of Daniel to the consummation of all things."

Old Jack ^_^

We are not in heaven, or the millennial reign of Christ, so "the consummation of all things" has not yet come.

Jack, I have to ask you, do you have an understanding of FUTURE?

LAMAD
 
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iamlamad

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I think you have it wrong,nobody goes anywhere nor does Christ return until after the tribulation....So let's look at Matthew 25

Matthew 25:10 "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut."

One must really really understand what the end times are all about,and that is deception,period........

At midnight the door was shut, it was midnight, and you were either in or out, there was no changing of mind, for at that moment those that knew the truth, and had the oil absolutely could not be fooled, and all others that had not the truth, could not get it. There was a complete blackout for the truth, or oil, and the only oil on the market was for "strange fire" that led you to the Antichrist.

When the Antichrist comes to earth, with his locust army of fallen angels, God is going to turn those that have not the truth over to Satan, the Antichrist, and only those seal with the oil of truth in their minds are to be protected. Revelation 9:4; "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only the those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."

The seal is the oil, the truth of God, and the the lamps are where the oil is kept, and that is in your mind, which is in your forehead. The foolish virgins are lacking the knowledge of the truth of God to know the difference between the two Christ, Jesus Christ and the Antichrist, and before they have the time to obtain the truth, it will be to late. The door is shut by the Almighty God Himself, and it is He that will cause you to go whoring after the wrong husband.

You can take on the true oil now, however at the instant of the sounding of the fifth trumpet, and Satan the Antichrist and his fallen angels are cast out of heaven, it is to late, the door is slammed shut.

There is a war in heaven going on right now, and at the appointed time, as Jesus told us in Revelation 12:7-9, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, " [7] "And prevailed not, neither was there place found any more in heaven." [8] "And The great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth , and his angels were cast out with him." [9]
When Satan arrives in person, the door is shut, and the whole world except those sealed with the oil of God, the Word of God, and know the truth, are given over to Satan, and his hoards of locust army [fallen angels] . Then it is to late. !!!!!

Matthew 25 is not about,being raptured,it's about knowing the truth,before it's to late....

This is mostly MYTH....reasonings of man, missing the intent of the Author, the Holy Spirit.

"nobody goes anywhere nor does Christ return until after the tribulation"

This is simply a lack of understanding of Paul's rapture. Paul makes it very clear that HIS RAPTURE will come as the trigger for the Day of the Lord. Always remember, the trigger gets pulled BEFORE the gun goes off. The rapture is BEFORE the sun turns dark and the moon into blood. At this SUDDENLY, two groups of people get two outcomes: those "in Christ" get salvation and get to "live together with Him" (so shall we ever be with the Lord) while those living in darkness get "sudden destruction," because they are LEFT BEHIND. Immediately after the rapture, which will include a mighty, worldwide earthquake, then the sun will turn dark and the moon into blood, and then people will KNOW "the Day of His wrath has come."

Just so you can keep the chronology straight, this happens at the 6th seal in Revelation, about 7 plus years BEFORE Jesus comes on the white horse. Make no mistake, when Jesus COMES for His bride, (Paul's pretrib rapture) IT IS A COMING. Paul says it is. But He does not come to the earth, only to the AIR, to gather His saints.

The OIL represents the Holy Spirit. If one is born again, they have the Holy Spirit INSIDE. SO MANY in the world SAY they are "Christian" but have never been born again.

The war in heaven is FUTURE, and will happen AFTER the 7th trumpet. The war going on now is IN US! Our flesh wants to sin, NEVER wants to pray or worship, but our Spirit wants to worship God. The WAR is in our will.

The DOOR that is shut is the rapture of the bride that ENDS the church age. Once that door is shut, NO ONE ELSE will be "born again." That age will have ENDED. From that day on, people will serve God BY THEIR WILL only. They will not have the Holy Spirit inside to help them. It will be just like the days before the Holy Spirit came - i.e., the OLD Covenant. That is why this period of time will be called DANIEL's 70th week. Daniel lived under the OLD Covenant, and once the rapture ENDS the church age, time reverts back to the FINAL WEEK of the 70 weeks determined for ISRAEL. It has nothing to do with the church.

Please go back and study these things, with much praying in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the TEACHER, but one can ACTIVATE Him as teacher by praying in the SPIRIT.

LAMAD
 
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iamlamad

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I believe you are entirely correct in equating "the door was shut" (Matthew 25:10) with the unbelieving world being turned over "that they all may be condemned, who did not believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:12)

But you are neglecting that in Matthew 25:10, the door was not shut until after "those who were ready went in with him to the wedding."

"And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut." (Matthew 25:10)

But you are forgetting

Once the door is shut to the born again experience, it WILL NOT OPEN AGAIN: the age of the church will be OVER.

LAMAD
 
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shturt678s

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We are not in heaven, or the millennial reign of Christ, so "the consummation of all things" has not yet come.

Jack, I have to ask you, do you have an understanding of FUTURE?

LAMAD

The future "1" consummation is right around the corner without "2" or "3" Returns of our Lord along with two or three resurrections, ie, "1" resurrection and "1" Return, ie, the end.

Old Jack
 
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iamlamad

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The future "1" consummation is right around the corner without "2" or "3" Returns of our Lord along with two or three resurrections, ie, "1" resurrection and "1" Return, ie, the end.

Old Jack

You keep believing this and you will MISS His coming FOR His saints. Do you IGNORE the 1260 days, the 42 months, and the time, times and half of time? Even those that understand little might think we have at least that long before He comes on the white horse. These all represent the SAME period of time: the last half of the week.

I have gone over this enough with you; it is time to quit. You will find out soon enough you did not understand His coming FOR His saints, when you are left behind.

LAMAD
 
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shturt678s

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You keep believing this and you will MISS His coming FOR His saints. Do you IGNORE the 1260 days, the 42 months, and the time, times and half of time? Even those that understand little might think we have at least that long before He comes on the white horse. These all represent the SAME period of time: the last half of the week.

I have gone over this enough with you; it is time to quit. You will find out soon enough you did not understand His coming FOR His saints, when you are left behind.

LAMAD

Thank you again my friend.

I just don't want you to be "Left Behind" ^_^

We're going to have to go back to square "1" where Revelation reconciles itself with seven different "1" endings of the world, ie, Rev.6:12-17 "1" ending of the world; Rev.7:9-17 next "1" ending of the world; Rev.11:14-19 next "1" ending of the world; Rev.14:14-20 next "1" ending of the world; Rev.16:17-21 next "1" ending of the world; Rev.19:11-21 next "1" ending of the world; Rev.20:7-15 next "1" ending of the world.

The visions are kind of like synchronous where the light goes from shining upon our Lord then towards the end of Rev. shines on Satan. :idea:

Old Jack, you have no "1" to blame except yourself if you're 'left behind' in the dark :o
 
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Tares and the unprepared virgins aren't unbelievers... they are false teachers, false Christians, false doctrines.

See Matthew 7:21-23 where Jesus further elaborates on the fate of false Christians!
 
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n2thelight

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This is mostly MYTH....reasonings of man, missing the intent of the Author, the Holy Spirit.

"nobody goes anywhere nor does Christ return until after the tribulation"

This is simply a lack of understanding of Paul's rapture. Paul makes it very clear that HIS RAPTURE will come as the trigger for the Day of the Lord. Always remember, the trigger gets pulled BEFORE the gun goes off. The rapture is BEFORE the sun turns dark and the moon into blood. At this SUDDENLY, two groups of people get two outcomes: those "in Christ" get salvation and get to "live together with Him" (so shall we ever be with the Lord) while those living in darkness get "sudden destruction," because they are LEFT BEHIND. Immediately after the rapture, which will include a mighty, worldwide earthquake, then the sun will turn dark and the moon into blood, and then people will KNOW "the Day of His wrath has come."

Just so you can keep the chronology straight, this happens at the 6th seal in Revelation, about 7 plus years BEFORE Jesus comes on the white horse. Make no mistake, when Jesus COMES for His bride, (Paul's pretrib rapture) IT IS A COMING. Paul says it is. But He does not come to the earth, only to the AIR, to gather His saints.

The OIL represents the Holy Spirit. If one is born again, they have the Holy Spirit INSIDE. SO MANY in the world SAY they are "Christian" but have never been born again.

The war in heaven is FUTURE, and will happen AFTER the 7th trumpet. The war going on now is IN US! Our flesh wants to sin, NEVER wants to pray or worship, but our Spirit wants to worship God. The WAR is in our will.

The DOOR that is shut is the rapture of the bride that ENDS the church age. Once that door is shut, NO ONE ELSE will be "born again." That age will have ENDED. From that day on, people will serve God BY THEIR WILL only. They will not have the Holy Spirit inside to help them. It will be just like the days before the Holy Spirit came - i.e., the OLD Covenant. That is why this period of time will be called DANIEL's 70th week. Daniel lived under the OLD Covenant, and once the rapture ENDS the church age, time reverts back to the FINAL WEEK of the 70 weeks determined for ISRAEL. It has nothing to do with the church.

Please go back and study these things, with much praying in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the TEACHER, but one can ACTIVATE Him as teacher by praying in the SPIRIT.

LAMAD

Once again,I will just keep it plan and simple,Christ shall return only once more,period!!!!

Show me the difference between,this so called rapture,and the 2nd coming of Christ,ie(The Day of the Lord)and I promise you I will prove with scripture,that both are the same....No rapture just our gathering to Christ,happens at the 7th trump which is the last, which happens at the beginning of the Day of the Lord,which starts, and is the Millennium.........


Question,why would Christ say He wasn't coming until after the trib,if the Church wasn't going to go through it?????
 
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iamlamad

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Once again,I will just keep it plan and simple,Christ shall return only once more,period!!!!

Show me the difference between,this so called rapture,and the 2nd coming of Christ,ie(The Day of the Lord)and I promise you I will prove with scripture,that both are the same....No rapture just our gathering to Christ,happens at the 7th trump which is the last, which happens at the beginning of the Day of the Lord,which starts, and is the Millennium.........


Question,why would Christ say He wasn't coming until after the trib,if the Church wasn't going to go through it?????

Question: WHY would a God of Love WANT His children to go through His wrath? Would YOU send your own children into a place where you KNEW they would be tortured, and finally beheaded? WOULD YOU? Why would you even entertain the thought that our loving Heavenly Father would desire such a thing for His kids?

why would Christ say He wasn't coming until after the trib,if the Church wasn't going to go through it?

What a silly question! Because HE is coming TWICE. He was talking to JEWS about the end of THEIR 70th week, and His coming on the white horse, as shown in Rev. 19. Everything He said about that is of course 100% TRUTH. But what Paul said about the rapture of the church coming 7 years + previous to that, BEFORE the Day of the Lord, and as the trigger for the SIGNS of the Day of the Lord, FOR THE CHURCH Is also just as true.

Have you not separated in your mind THE CHURCH, the body of Christ on earth, and the Jews that STILL have not accepted Him? These are TWO different groups of people, and the bible speaks to both groups. You must understand WHO a verse is pointed to if you hope to understand.

this so called rapture...

Why try to deny 1 Thes. 4:15-17? It is written just as plainly in the SAME BIBLE as is Matthew 24. You are DENYING scripture. That is just NOT WISE.

Next, you need to find the SCRIPTURAL start of the Day of the Lord. First, read all the Old TEstament verses on THE DAY. KNow what THE DAY is, so you can recognize it. Just a hint, it is to DESTROY THE EARTH. So where does that destruction begin? With the first TRUMPET judgment. How amazing, that is the next event after John wrote, "The DAY of His wrath Has come!"

Do you suppose after the 7th trumpet has sounded, God will send out angels to destroy all trumpets left in the universe, and then destroy the memory of all trumpets, so no trumpet could ever again be made, so there could NEVER, EVER be another trumpet blast? If the 7th, as you say, is THE LAST TRUMPET blast ever, then that is what you are saying. OF COURSE that is silly: God is not going to destroy all trumpets, and there will surely be a trumpet sound somewhere during the Millennial reign of Christ.

So what is the truth? There is a SERIES of 7 trumpets in Revelation. But EVERY YEAR there is a SERIES of trumpets during the FEAST OF TRUMPETS....I think over 100 trumpet blasts are made...and at the evening, ONE, LONG, FINAL trumpet blast, which has LONG been called by the Jews, "The last trump." You see, Paul had never even HEARD of the 7 trumpets in Revelation, for that book had not yet been written. Paul's last trumpet has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the 7th trumpet in Revelation whose PURPOSE is to MARK the exact midpoint of the week, and alert Michael it is TIME to go to war against the dragon.

Finally, all you have shown is you have very little understanding of the TRUTH of end times scriptures and a very poor understanding of the Character of our Father.

LAMAD
 
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shturt678s

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Question: WHY would a God of Love WANT His children to go through His wrath?

He's a God of AGAPE (persons understood for a higher divine intelligent purpose - not persons loved) thus God makes sure His "children" understands His righteous wrath (Seals and Trumpets undressed) for His purpose that they "remain in" during this time (70A.D.- "1" Parousia without a "Rapture" before the Parousia) due to the "delusions" from the abyss of hell sending out higher order demons controlled by our Lord (Rev.9:1-21) now, ie, this moment. :o :idea:

Would YOU send your own children into a place where you KNEW they would be tortured, and finally beheaded? WOULD YOU? Why would you even entertain the thought that our loving Heavenly Father would desire such a thing for His kids?

why would Christ say He wasn't coming until after the trib,if the Church wasn't going to go through it?

What a silly question! Because HE is coming TWICE. He was talking to JEWS about the end of THEIR 70th week, and His coming on the white horse, as shown in Rev. 19. Everything He said about that is of course 100% TRUTH. But what Paul said about the rapture of the church coming 7 years + previous to that, BEFORE the Day of the Lord, and as the trigger for the SIGNS of the Day of the Lord, FOR THE CHURCH Is also just as true.

Have you not separated in your mind THE CHURCH, the body of Christ on earth, and the Jews that STILL have not accepted Him? These are TWO different groups of people, and the bible speaks to both groups. You must understand WHO a verse is pointed to if you hope to understand.

this so called rapture...

Why try to deny 1 Thes. 4:15-17? It is written just as plainly in the SAME BIBLE as is Matthew 24. You are DENYING scripture. That is just NOT WISE.

Next, you need to find the SCRIPTURAL start of the Day of the Lord. First, read all the Old TEstament verses on THE DAY. KNow what THE DAY is, so you can recognize it. Just a hint, it is to DESTROY THE EARTH. So where does that destruction begin? With the first TRUMPET judgment. How amazing, that is the next event after John wrote, "The DAY of His wrath Has come!"

Do you suppose after the 7th trumpet has sounded, God will send out angels to destroy all trumpets left in the universe, and then destroy the memory of all trumpets, so no trumpet could ever again be made, so there could NEVER, EVER be another trumpet blast? If the 7th, as you say, is THE LAST TRUMPET blast ever, then that is what you are saying. OF COURSE that is silly: God is not going to destroy all trumpets, and there will surely be a trumpet sound somewhere during the Millennial reign of Christ.

So what is the truth? There is a SERIES of 7 trumpets in Revelation. But EVERY YEAR there is a SERIES of trumpets during the FEAST OF TRUMPETS....I think over 100 trumpet blasts are made...and at the evening, ONE, LONG, FINAL trumpet blast, which has LONG been called by the Jews, "The last trump." You see, Paul had never even HEARD of the 7 trumpets in Revelation, for that book had not yet been written. Paul's last trumpet has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the 7th trumpet in Revelation whose PURPOSE is to MARK the exact midpoint of the week, and alert Michael it is TIME to go to war against the dragon.

Finally, all you have shown is you have very little understanding of the TRUTH of end times scriptures and a very poor understanding of the Character of our Father.

LAMAD

Old Jack
 
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iamlamad said in post 352:

Question: WHY would a God of Love WANT His children to go through His wrath?

Note that nothing requires that the entire future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will be God's wrath, or that any part of the tribulation that will be his wrath will be directed against any of the saved people (1 Thessalonians 5:9) who will still be alive on the earth at that time (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). Most of the tribulation could be only Satan's wrath working through evil people and natural forces to bring disaster on the earth, like when Satan was allowed to work through evil people and natural forces to bring disaster on righteous Job (Job 1:12-20), against whom God had no wrath.

The tribulation's first 5 seals (Revelation 6:1-11) won't be God's wrath or judgment, for after the first 4 seals the martyrs of the 5th seal ask God when he is going to bring his judgment against the world (Revelation 6:10). And the killing of even more martyrs, which the 5th seal foretells will happen sometime after the 5th seal (Revelation 6:11), won't be God's wrath against those martyrs. So Jesus' unsealing the tribulation's seals (Revelation 6), the tribulation's first stage, doesn't mean that the events unsealed will be God's wrath, but that they will be permitted by God to happen at that time.

The tribulation's 6th seal (Revelation 6:12-14) will happen sometime before the day of the Lord (Joel 2:31, Revelation 6:12), whereas the day of the Lord/Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at his 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't happen until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). Similarly, the day of the Lord's wrath (Psalms 110:5) won't begin until Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19-21).

So the people quoted at the 6th seal (Revelation 6:17), during only the first stage of the tribulation, could be just as mistaken as Job was when Job said that what was happening to him was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11). Just as what was happening to Job was actually Satan's wrath against him, not God's wrath, so the 6th seal could actually be Satan's wrath, not God's wrath. And just as the writer of the book of Job didn't go out of his way to correct Job's mistaken statement in Job 19:11, and just as the apostles John and Matthew didn't go out of their ways to correct the mistaken statements of the people they quoted in John 7:12b and Matthew 27:63a, so the apostle John could have not gone out of his way to correct the statement of the people he quoted in Revelation 6:17.

After the tribulation's 6th seal will occur its 7th seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come its 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). Note that nothing requires that any of the first 6 trumpets' events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will be God's wrath. The 5th trumpet's events will be the work of weird locust-like beings from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:2-10) led by a fallen angel from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:11). And the 6th trumpet's events to the end of Revelation 9 will be the work of weird horse-like beings led by 4 fallen angels previously bound at the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14-19). So even though good angels of God will sound the first 6 trumpets, this could be announcing God's allowing the wrath of Satan to destroy 1/3 of different things (Revelation 8:7-12, Revelation 9:15,18), just as Satan will subsequently, mid-tribulation, be allowed by God to cause 1/3 of the angels (i.e. the fallen angels) to be cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:4,9).

Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will happen before the Antichrist's (the individual-man aspect of the beast's) future, literal 3.5-year worldwide Luciferian/Satanic reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). And the events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 could be used by Satan to help prepare the world to welcome that reign. For what he could do is first take great pleasure in causing the destruction in each event, but then claim that the destruction isn't from him, but from YHWH, and that YHWH is a cruel tyrant god who hates mankind and only wants to make it suffer, while he (Satan, as "Lucifer") only wants the best for mankind (cf. Mark 8:33b). In this way, he could deceive the world into turning away from YHWH and instead worshipping him (the dragon) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

After the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year reign (Revelation 13:5-7) is declared legally over at the sounding of the tribulation's 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath will come out of the heavenly-temple opening of the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). The vials will then be poured out on the Antichrist's followers as God's judgment for their receiving the Antichrist's mark and worshipping his image (Revelation 16:2), and for their killing of people in the church (Revelation 16:6-7, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

During the Antichrist's worldwide reign, people in the church will be hated and killed in every nation for refusing to renounce the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the witness of Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:4), for refusing to accept the antichrist lies that Jesus himself isn't the Christ (1 John 2:22), and that Christ himself isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the sound doctrine of the Bible, the Word of God (Revelation 20:4; 2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4), for refusing to depart from the Biblical faith and give heed instead to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1-2). They will be beheaded for refusing to worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 20:4, Revelation 13:15). And all of this will be Satan's wrath against the church (Revelation 12:17), not God's wrath, for the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

Even when God's wrath comes in the 7 vials (Revelation 16), the tribulation's final stage, because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of the vials will be directed at any of those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have prepared for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had prepared for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:11,13).

Jesus will return right after the 7th and last vial is completed (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21, Matthew 24:29-30), and he will bring the 2nd-coming wrath of God on the unsaved world (Revelation 19:15-21). But before that 2nd-coming wrath begins, the church will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31) into the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).
 
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iamlamad said in post 352:

Would YOU send your own children into a place where you KNEW they would be tortured, and finally beheaded? WOULD YOU? Why would you even entertain the thought that our loving Heavenly Father would desire such a thing for His kids?

The tribulation's purpose with regard to the righteous church in all nations having to suffer through it (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6) could be the same as the purpose of righteous Job having to go through his suffering at the hands of Satan (Job chapters 1-2), and the purpose of, for example, the righteous, literal, first century AD local church congregation in the city of Smyrna (Revelation 2:8) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) having to suffer and die in a first century persecution (Revelation 2:10).

Job should be looked to by obedient Christians as an example of patient endurance through suffering (James 5:11). Just as God allowed Satan to bring suffering to righteous Job (Job chapters 1-2), so God sometimes allows Satan to bring suffering to obedient Christians (Revelation 2:10). And during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, Satan will be allowed to unleash his wrath against obedient Christians in every nation (Revelation 12:9,17, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

By the power of Satan working against Job (Job 1:12), Job first suffered the loss of his wealth and his servants from murderous robbers (Job 1:14,15,17) and a natural disaster (Job 1:16), and suffered the death of all his children in a natural disaster (Job 1:18-19). Then, again by the power of Satan working against him (Job 2:6), Job suffered the loss of his health (Job 2:7). But Job remained patient through all his loss and suffering, never cursing God because of it (Job 2:9-10, Job 1:20-22), but wholly trusting in God through it all (Job 13:15).

Because of this, God greatly rewarded Job after his suffering was over, giving him twice as much wealth as he had had before (Job 42:10,12, Job 1:3), and giving him the same number of children as he had had before (Job 42:13, Job 1:2), and giving him a very long life (Job 42:16), so that he lived to see his grandchildren, great grandchildren, and great great grandchildren (Job 42:16). While he was still suffering, Job mistakenly thought that his suffering was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11), when in fact God had no wrath against Job, for Job was righteous in God's eyes (Job 1:1,8, Job 2:3). Instead, Job was suffering from the hand of Satan (Job 1:12, Job 2:7). Similarly, during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the suffering of obedient Christians won't be God's wrath against them, but Satan's wrath against them (Revelation 12:9,17, cf. Revelation 2:10).

God allowed Satan to bring loss and suffering to Job in order to prove that Job didn't love God just because God had made him wealthy and secure (Job 1:9-12) and healthy (Job 2:4-6), but that Job would continue to love and trust God even if all his wealth, family, and health were stripped away from him. Indeed, Job would have continued to love God even if God had killed him (Job 13:15). This is the kind of love for God that Christians will need to have during the future tribulation. They will need to continue to love God even when God allows Satan (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) to make war against Biblical Christians and physically overcome them in every nation (Revelation 12:9,17, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13), stripping away all their wealth and family and leading them away to be beheaded (Revelation 20:4-6). Christians must so love God and so trust God that they have no fear of suffering or death (Revelation 2:10, Hebrews 2:15), knowing that even death will only bring their still-conscious souls into the presence of Jesus in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23, Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 23:43).

Christians mustn't love their mortal lives to where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep from getting killed (Mark 8:35-38, John 12:25, Revelation 12:11), just as Christians mustn't love their families to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep their families from starving or getting killed (Matthew 10:37, Luke 14:26). And Christians mustn't love their wealth to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep their wealth from being taken away (Matthew 6:24; 1 Timothy 6:9-10). Jesus Christ requires Christians to forsake everything, even their own lives, for his sake (Luke 14:33, Luke 9:23, Matthew 10:38-39), just as he forsook everything, even his own life, for their sake (Philippians 2:6-8; 2 Corinthians 5:15; 1 Corinthians 15:3).

"Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy" (1 Peter 4:12-13).
 
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iamlamad said in post 352:

He was talking to JEWS about the end of THEIR 70th week, and His coming on the white horse, as shown in Rev. 19. Everything He said about that is of course 100% TRUTH. But what Paul said about the rapture of the church coming 7 years + previous to that, BEFORE the Day of the Lord, and as the trigger for the SIGNS of the Day of the Lord, FOR THE CHURCH Is also just as true.

Note that nothing in the Bible teaches or requires a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. Instead, the Bible makes clear that Jesus won't come and gather together (rapture) the church until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That's why the marriage of the church doesn't happen until Revelation 19:7, in connection with Jesus' 2nd coming and the bodily resurrection of the church at that time (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Matthew 24:30-31 refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus and gathering together (rapture) of the church as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, which refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus and catching up together (rapture) of the church as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

Jesus won't return and gather together (rapture) the church until sometime after there is a falling away (an apostasy) in the church, and the Antichrist sits in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-8), and the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 3rd Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-31).

At Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30), the church will be resurrected and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31), not to remove the church from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20), but to take the church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the church (of all times) who "overcame" to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and the world's armies (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the resurrected and married obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the church will then reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

iamlamad said in post 352:

But what Paul said about the rapture of the church coming 7 years + previous to that, BEFORE the Day of the Lord, and as the trigger for the SIGNS of the Day of the Lord, FOR THE CHURCH Is also just as true.

The day of the Lord/Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at the Lord Jesus Christ's 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, "immediately after" the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8), which is when the rapture (the gathering together) of the church will occur (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

iamlamad said in post 352:

Paul's last trumpet has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the 7th trumpet in Revelation whose PURPOSE is to MARK the exact midpoint of the week, and alert Michael it is TIME to go to war against the dragon.

Paul's "last trump" (1 Corinthians 15:52) indeed isn't the same as Revelation's 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19). Instead, Revelation 11:15 refers to when Jesus will take ultimate, legal, physical authority over the earth, away from Satan (cf. Luke 4:5-7) and Satan's fallen angels (Ephesians 6:12), and away from the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-18, cf. Revelation 12:9) and the Antichrist's 10 kings (Revelation 17:12-13). It won't be until a little later that Jesus will take de facto, physical control of the earth at his 2nd coming and during the subsequent millennium (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6).

Jesus' 2nd coming won't (as is sometimes claimed) occur immediately after the sounding of the tribulation's 7th trumpet and the declaration of the legal replacement of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5 year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 12:6,14) with Jesus' reign (Revelation 11:15). For a "time" (Revelation 11:18) can last awhile (cf. Revelation 12:14). (It's like if someone said "It's time to sell this house"; this doesn't mean that it will get sold immediately.) The only part of Revelation 11:18 that will happen immediately after the 7th trumpet sounds is "thy wrath is come", for the plagues of the vials (Revelation 16), the tribulation's final stage, will come out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1).

So the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), even though it will be the last trumpet to sound during the tribulation, won't be the resurrection "last trump" of 1 Corinthians 15:52. The latter won't sound until after the entire tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 is over, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16), which won't occur until Revelation 19, and which is when the church will be resurrected (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).

Before the 2nd coming, the tribulation's final, Revelation 16 stage could last for 75 days. For the first vial in Revelation 16 could be poured out immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign, which 1,260 days could begin when the abomination of desolation (possibly an android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36). And Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the setting up of the abomination of desolation (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). An analogy for the possible 75-day vials-delay between Jesus taking legal possession of the earth (Revelation 11:15) and his return to take de facto, physical possession of it (Revelation chapters 19-20) would be someone in New York legally inheriting a house in California 75 days before he moves there to live in that house.

At Jesus' 2nd coming, he will resurrect and judge only the church (1 Corinthians 15:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Psalms 50:3-6, cf. Mark 13:27), and then he will marry the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12). Then Revelation 19:11-21 will occur. So both the resurrection and the rewarding of the church spoken of in Revelation 11:18, as well as the destroying of the destroyers of the earth spoken of in Revelation 11:18, could occur 75 days after the 7th trumpet's sounding. And because a "time" can last awhile (cf. Revelation 12:14), this would still be well within the "time" referred to in Revelation 11:18.

Everyone not resurrected and judged at Jesus' 2nd coming won't be resurrected and judged until Revelation 20:11-15, which won't occur until sometime after the returned Jesus and the bodily resurrected church have reigned on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). Both resurrections and judgments can still occur within Revelation 11:18's "time". For the original Greek word (kairos, G2540) translated there as "time" can refer to even quite a long period. For example, the same Greek word is used in 2 Corinthians 6:2 to refer to the "time" of people getting saved, which has been going on for thousands of years.
 
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iamlamad

Question: WHY would a God of Love WANT His children to go through His wrath? Would YOU send your own children into a place where you KNEW they would be tortured, and finally beheaded? WOULD YOU? Why would you even entertain the thought that our loving Heavenly Father would desire such a thing for His kids?

Fear not those who can kill the body.....

With that said how many Christians throughout history have been killed and tortured?

Heck!Let me show you a few

Most Painful 20 Torture Devices in the History…

May 12, 2008 at 3:14 pm (Around the World, Funny)

Do you know what would have been the worst aspect of life during the European middle ages? Heinous personal hygiene? No. Disease and famine? Hardly. That really crappy mandolin music that midgets enjoy dancing to? Close, but wrong again. The worst thing about medieval life was the unwavering evil of the Christian “justice” system and the tools of torture they employed.The following are the 20 worst torture devices of all time in the European History…
(20.) Punishing Shoes
20.jpg


The shoes were often used in conjunction with the standing pillory (a device that holds your head and wrists in place while you stand). How long do you think you could stand on your tippy-toes before you had to rest your heels on those iron spikes?

(19.) Heretic’s Fork​



The four sharp points snugly nestled under the chin and sternum were designed to allow the victim just enough range of motion with his mouth to murmer a confession.


(18.) Dunking Stool
18.jpg

Used primarily on women (as was the case for most devices of pseudo-sexual torture), the dunking stool would dip its occupant into a river for as long as the authorities saw fit.
(17.) The Boots


The victim’s legs were placed between two planks of wood and bound together with cords. Between the cords the torturers placed wedges with which they would violently hammer. Each time a wedge was hammered, an acute portion of the shin bone was shattered. The tormentors could hammer at least a dozen wedges up and down the legs. When the Boots were removed, the bone fragments fell to pieces and the skin of the lower legs merely served as loose sacks for them.


(16.) Water Torture
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This is the only non-medieval, European torture on our list. The water torture was a favorite among Japanese POW guards during WWII. The victim was first bound with barbed wire and his mouth stuffed with rags. Next, the guards would snake a tube down the victim’s nasal passage and bloat his belly with water. Once that was finished, the guards would kick and beat the poor sap’s midsection until his stomach lining burst and and death ensued.
(15.) Cat’s Paw
15.jpg

This was simply used to slowly tear the flesh from its victim, often times all the way down to the bone.
(14.) The Rack


It does exactly what it looks like it does: the rack pulls your body from end to end until your limbs are slowly plucked from their joints.


(13.) Quartering by Horses



Quartering is the rack taken to the next level and was reserved only for murderers and those who killed or attempted to take the life of a nobleman or royalty. Each of the prisoner’s limbs were tied to a horse and the horses were whipped simultaneously so that each limb would erupt from the body in an instant. A crowd favorite.


(12.) The Pear


Hinging on your gender, the pear was either placed in your anus or your vagina in its thin form and then cranked to open up and blossom into a rather uncomfortable position


(11.) Cleansing the Soul
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In many Catholic countries, the clergy believed that the corrupted soul of a damned person could be cleansed if they were forced to consume boiling water, burning coals, or both. Of course, this was what happened to prisoners before they were punished for their crime — sort of a “warm-up” torture, if you will.
(10.) The Hanging Cage
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The pictured victim is one of the lucky ones because most occupants were caged completely naked to expose them to either extreme cold or hot weather conditions. And… most caged prisoners were usually placed in there only after other means of extreme physical torture were administered. But wait — there’s more! The victims were left in the cage until they died from either the elements or thirst, which could take weeks.
(9.) The Head Crusher
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If ever an explanation was in a name, the head crusher is it. Death by head crusher usually went something like this: the teeth imploded into their sockets and smashed the surrounding jaw bones. Then the eyes squirted from their sockets and finally, brain matter squirted from the ears. Unbelievably, many nations still use a version of the head crusher to this very day as an interrogation tool.
(8.) Burning at the Stake
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A favorite execution for those accused of witchcaft. Clergy believed that the burning of a witch permanently removed her evil spirits from the physical world, thus eliminating the possibility of any further contamination of innocent souls. Makes sense.
(7.) Judas Cradle
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The victim was hoisted above the pyramid and slowly lowered, crotch first, onto its sharpened pinnacle. Hinging on the torturers mood, he could vary the amount of the victim’s body weight applied to the point.
(6.) The Cradle
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The Cradle is the nastier second cousin to the Judas Cradle. We believe the picture does all the explaining for us.
(5.) Iron Maiden

5.jpg

The following is a depiction of the first recorded use of the Iron Maiden on August 14, 1515 : “A forger of coins was placed inside, and the doors shut slowly, so that the very sharp points penetrated his arms and legs in several places, and his belly and chest, and his bladder and the root of his member, and his eyes, and his shoulders, and his buttocks, but not enough to kill him; and so, he remained making great cry and lament for two days, after which he died.”
(4.) Interrogation Chair
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Not only were the hundreds of tiny spikes uncomfortable to sit on, but a fire was usually kindled under the iron chair to make it reach a horrible scalding point.
(3.) Impalement
3.jpg

This was the standard form of punishment for traitors in Algiers, Tunis, Tripoli and Salee during the Middle Ages. Believe it or not, once the lengthy spike entered the victim’s posterior and exited their mouth or throat, the victim might live for more than a day in this state and was left to crawl in the dirt for all to watch.
(2.) The Saw
2.jpg

The saw may represent human ingenuity’s darkest hour. The idea here is that when the victim is suspended upside down, most of the blood will go to the head. That is an important part of the process, you see, because as the torturers saw into the victim’s crotch, all of the blood in the head will oxygenate the brain so that the victim will not pass out as one normally would under such excruciating pain. Typically, the saw would reach the victim’s navel before unconsciousness would take hold — sometimes as far as the midriff.
(1.) Breaking with the Wheel

Okay, we’ve saved the most treacherous display for last. So, if you’ve had trouble with any of the above and want to turn back now, no one will think less of you for it……………. You still here? You sick bastard. Okay, here we go… In terms of frequency used, the wheel was second only to hanging as the most common form of execution in Germany during the Middle Ages. First, the victim (usually naked) had each of his limbs spread apart and tied to the ground. However, wooden crosspieces were placed under each major joint such as the wrists, ankles, knees, hips and shoulders. The torturer would then smash each limb and joint with the heavy, iron-enhanced wheel. But that was just the beginning of the nightmare. Once the limbs were reduced to gelatinous appendages of mashed bones, blood and flesh, each arm and leg was braided into the spokes of the wheel and then hoisted upright for display. The agonizing victim would remain in this position for days as crows and insects feasted on him or her until death.

And you're worried about getting your head chopped off,Please!!!!!
 
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n2thelight,
your last post only serves to show us that you have no concept of what Jesus told us about the days of great tribulation. It is not about "torture" per se....it is about great pressure being put upon people to take the mark of the beast, and so be doomed to the lake of fire. Did you forget the words of Jesus? There has never been a time like this, and never will be again. This will be a SPECIAL time, designed by God for people just like you that want to be left behind when HE comes for His bride, and WANT to go through it.

God's chosen have ALWAYS had tribulation. John wrote, "I John in the tribulation...." But this has little to do with the days coming. This time it is coming because God will turn the world over to Satan for 3 1/2 years. WHY? Because the entire world wants a world without God. (or think that they do!)

Satan DELIGHTS in putting God's kids under pressure, like Nebuchadnezzar and the image of gold. The Beast of Rev. will do the same thing again, only this time it appears it will be WORLD WIDE. No one wants to lose their head. No one wants to be hungry and thirsty. Thirst will become the most driving force, because NO ONE can buy or sell without the mark....and God will turn all fresh water into blood. Probably the only thing available to drink must be purchased.

Well, it seems you will find out personally. I don't think you will have long to wait - until you see these things come to pass. Please take John's advice: DON'T take the mark.

LAMAD
 
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n2thelight,
your last post only serves to show us that you have no concept of what Jesus told us about the days of great tribulation. It is not about "torture" per se....it is about great pressure being put upon people to take the mark of the beast, and so be doomed to the lake of fire. Did you forget the words of Jesus? There has never been a time like this, and never will be again. This will be a SPECIAL time, designed by God for people just like you that want to be left behind when HE comes for His bride, and WANT to go through it.

God's chosen have ALWAYS had tribulation. John wrote, "I John in the tribulation...." But this has little to do with the days coming. This time it is coming because God will turn the world over to Satan for 3 1/2 years. WHY? Because the entire world wants a world without God. (or think that they do!)

Satan DELIGHTS in putting God's kids under pressure, like Nebuchadnezzar and the image of gold. The Beast of Rev. will do the same thing again, only this time it appears it will be WORLD WIDE. No one wants to lose their head. No one wants to be hungry and thirsty. Thirst will become the most driving force, because NO ONE can buy or sell without the mark....and God will turn all fresh water into blood. Probably the only thing available to drink must be purchased.

Well, it seems you will find out personally. I don't think you will have long to wait - until you see these things come to pass. Please take John's advice: DON'T take the mark.

LAMAD

Here's your quote,from which I replied

iamlamad

Question: WHY would a God of Love WANT His children to go through His wrath? Would YOU send your own children into a place where you KNEW they would be tortured, and finally beheaded? WOULD YOU? Why would you even entertain the thought that our loving Heavenly Father would desire such a thing for His kids?



satan can't force anyone to follow him,they will do so of their own free will,why?Because they will think he is Christ

The tribulation of satan is all about deception,and just to help you out a little,satan's reign will only be for 5 months,God shortened the days.....

As far as me being hungry and thirsty,I have no doubt,my God will provide for me,and if not I will have no problem whatsoever,dying for Him!!!!.......
 
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