The Rapture - 2020?

[Earth and heaven]

The Transfiguration of Jesus have happened BEFORE His Death and Resurrection in His flesh and bones body.
The Transfiguration was to shown that Jesus is God not an ordinary human.


The we refers to believers....we will be resurrected in an incorruptible IMMORTAL BODY like Jesus.


This is the SOUL of the Believer who at death ascend to Heaven in the presence of Jesus.



After His Resurrection Jesus tell them that He was well alive in His flesh and bones body.

Luke 24:36-43

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Paul teaches us in 1Corinthians15: that "all" believersand unbelievers will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. If you are saved and make a stand against the false Christ (Satan) and his deceptions, you will reign with Christ 1,000 years. Those who do take the "mark of the beast", their souls will not, I repeat, will not have an eternal spiritual body until they are tested after the Millennium. 1Corinthians15:50-52 describes the mystery (secret) of the two bodies. The physical and spiritual bodies are two separate entities. There are also two spiritual bodies, one eternal, the other one perishable (mortal) in the Greek Dictionary it means (liable to die). If they have a (mortal soul) they will have to be taught again to learn the difference between "the holy from the profane", for a 1,ooo years and then be tested at the end of it to "earn" that eternal body by choosing Jesus Christ. I f you are not deceived and stand against (Satan) against the false Christ you will take part in the first resurrection. Revelation20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." This verse is really easy to understand, "the rest of the dead ". The difference in - taking part in the first resurrection or not taking part - hinges on whether or not they were deceived by the antichrist. John has been taken in the spirit to the last day before Christ's return. Revelation20: is talking about that specific day when the last trump sounds, and Jesus is returning with His saints to the earth. This verse is addressing (our generation) we who are living in the time of the seven seals, and we who will see Christians and unbelievers take Satan's mark (the mark of the beast) and give service to him. 1Corinthians15:52"Now this I say, brethren, that flash and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." When Jesus returns flash and blood cannot exist in the Kingdom. The Kingdom of God is wherever Jesus is, when Jesus returns for the Millennium age here on earth, flash and blood bodies will not exist. In Corinthians15:51 Paul reveals to us a mystery (a hidden secret). Paul's writing tells us this mystery concerning what happens at a particular point in time, for at that instant, there will be no more death. "sleep' as used here, is #2838 in the Strong's Greek Dictionary; 'koim esis, koy - may - sis; from 2837, to put to sleep". We read in #2837; 'koimao, koy - mah- o; to put to sleep, to decease, to be dead. 'The time is coming that all people believers and unbelievers on the face of the earth will never see death in their flesh bodies again. This is the mystery that Paul is telling us; he also tells us when this event shall take place. 1Corinthians15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and we shall be changed." It is written in verse 52 that all 9we) will be changed, on the first day of the Millennium age. The 'Kingdom of Heaven will be with us on earth. No one on the earth can enter that Kingdom age in a flash body. When the two witnesses are killed that seventh trump will sound! Everyone on earth will be changed to an incorruptible body. Every person will have the same capabilities and all will have the understanding to be taught without Satan's influence. However only those saints of God who stood against Satan will take part in the first resurrection. 1Corinthians15:53"For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.' The word 'mortal' in the Greek manuscripts never applies to a physical flesh body, it applies only to soul. The mortal (soul) must put on immortality. That soul becomes your existence in the Millennium age. If you enter the Millennium with a mortal (liable-t0-die) soul, by following the antichrist (Satan)in ignorance, you must be an overcomer in the Millennium, or your soul will not put on immortality, and it will die in the lake of fire you will be turned into ashes at the end of the Millennium. Revelation20:"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years." Those who took part in the first resurrection were those who died in the Lord, and those who stood and did not yield to Satan. Those who did not take the antichrist "mark of the beast", these are the blessed and holy ones. All of these people already will possess an immortal souls during the Millennium.
















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[Cees]

2 Thess. 2:3........
"Let no man deceive you by any means" for THAT DAY shall not come except there come a falling away first and that man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition."

"THAT DAY" is NOT the Rapture in my opinion. THAT DAY is the "Day of the Lord" which is referred to all through the Old Test. as the day of wrath which is talking about the Tribulation Peroid.

The "coming of the Lord Jesus ChristT and our gathering together unto Him" is what is in view in verse #1.

Then according to verse #3 there will be a "falling away" which will then introduce the A/C.

______________________________________________________________

Dear friend,

There is a falling away thing to be understood as the rapture.
This is an invention of Andy Wood and I don't believe a word of it.
And to mine opinion Gerry Stearman does not believe it either.

But I assume you did not mean this and was just making clear that during of at the end of a period recognizable as a great falling away, the AC will reveal himself.
That’s correct!

I suppose the way you see the sequence of events, is as follows:
1st - a period of a great falling away
2nd - at some moment the rapture occurs and immediately after that (simultaneously with the rapture) the revelation of the AC will take place who, at that same moment, without developments leading to it, confirms a covenant with many for 7 years (the 70th week of Daniel)

To me this sounds very unlikely.

There must me a time gap between the rapture and the beginning of the 7 year period to give the AC the opportunity to gain in power leading to the position of a world leader who is able to confirm such a covenant.

Paul did never teach the rapture would occur right before the beginning of the 70th week.
Paul wrote his letter to baby-Christians who needed still milk in stead of vast food.
Therefore it’s unlikely that Paul wrote 'that day' while meaning with it 'the day of the Lord'.
Unlikely, because the Thessalonians perhaps should misunderstood such a way of explanation being only clear to 'grown-up' Christians.

And in case Paul wanted them to understand ‘the day of the Lord’ why didn’t he then wrote ‘the day of the Lord’ in stead of ‘that day’?

But ……… the phrase ‘that day’ is nowhere to find in the Greek of verse 3 !!!

That’s why I give you the Greek reading of verse 3:
“Not anyone you should deceive in any way, because [it will not be] unless shall have come the apostasy first, and shall have been revealed the man of sin, the sun of perdition, (4) he who opposes and exalts himself ....”.

Listening to Bible teachers quoting verse 2 they will always read ‘the day of the Lord’ while the Greek says ‘the day of Christ’.
Yes, Christ is the Lord, sure, but that does not allow us to change the Word of God!

The reason for this behaviour is the wrong interpretation of the Greek in verse 6 and 7 which causing the wrong translation of the Greek word ‘katechoo’.

They want it to be ‘the day of the Lord’ to avoid it contradicts their reading of verse 6 and 7 (the rapture triggering the revelation of the AC, first the rapture and than the AC).

But it’s the other way around: the revelation of the AC triggers the rapture.
At the moment the AC reveals himself, the hour of deception is there.

And a short time after that (2 months later acc. to my findings) the church will be raptured out of the hour of deception.
Just as the Bible teaches us.

About what went wrong with the translation of the Greek in verse 6 and 7, I wrote you earlier in my reactions.

‘The day of Christ’ begins with the rapture (at Pentecost) and to my understanding 4 months prior to the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel.
Doing the math I find 88 months for the duration of the day of Christ.

‘The day of the Lord’ is really something else than ‘the day of Christ’.

Reading verse 3 and just what it says means that the revelation of the AC comes first before the rapture.
So, this proves ‘the doctrine of imminence’ to be false.

Post this on a Christian forum and in many cases you will be blocked.
Try to explain this to a Bible teacher in a friendly and respectful way and …… you will not be answered.

My brother in Christ, I am respecting your view about the rapture with the events accompanying it.
I explained my view on this matter and the expectations I have about it to hand you something to think over.
And I hope you will continue to watch carefully things unfolding and perhaps my writings will be usefull.

Your brother in Christ,
Cees.

 

[Major1]

______________________________________________________________

Dear friend,

There is a falling away thing to be understood as the rapture.
This is an invention of Andy Wood and I don't believe a word of it.
And to mine opinion Gerry Stearman does not believe it either.

But I assume you did not mean this and was just making clear that during of at the end of a period recognizable as a great falling away, the AC will reveal himself.
That’s correct!

I suppose the way you see the sequence of events, is as follows:
1st - a period of a great falling away
2nd - at some moment the rapture occurs and immediately after that (simultaneously with the rapture) the revelation of the AC will take place who, at that same moment, without developments leading to it, confirms a covenant with many for 7 years (the 70th week of Daniel)

To me this sounds very unlikely.

There must me a time gap between the rapture and the beginning of the 7 year period to give the AC the opportunity to gain in power leading to the position of a world leader who is able to confirm such a covenant.

Paul did never teach the rapture would occur right before the beginning of the 70th week.
Paul wrote his letter to baby-Christians who needed still milk in stead of vast food.
Therefore it’s unlikely that Paul wrote 'that day' while meaning with it 'the day of the Lord'.
Unlikely, because the Thessalonians perhaps should misunderstood such a way of explanation being only clear to 'grown-up' Christians.

And in case Paul wanted them to understand ‘the day of the Lord’ why didn’t he then wrote ‘the day of the Lord’ in stead of ‘that day’?

But ……… the phrase ‘that day’ is nowhere to find in the Greek of verse 3 !!!

That’s why I give you the Greek reading of verse 3:
“Not anyone you should deceive in any way, because [it will not be] unless shall have come the apostasy first, and shall have been revealed the man of sin, the sun of perdition, (4) he who opposes and exalts himself ....”.

Listening to Bible teachers quoting verse 2 they will always read ‘the day of the Lord’ while the Greek says ‘the day of Christ’.
Yes, Christ is the Lord, sure, but that does not allow us to change the Word of God!

The reason for this behaviour is the wrong interpretation of the Greek in verse 6 and 7 which causing the wrong translation of the Greek word ‘katechoo’.

They want it to be ‘the day of the Lord’ to avoid it contradicts their reading of verse 6 and 7 (the rapture triggering the revelation of the AC, first the rapture and than the AC).

But it’s the other way around: the revelation of the AC triggers the rapture.
At the moment the AC reveals himself, the hour of deception is there.

And a short time after that (2 months later acc. to my findings) the church will be raptured out of the hour of deception.
Just as the Bible teaches us.

About what went wrong with the translation of the Greek in verse 6 and 7, I wrote you earlier in my reactions.

‘The day of Christ’ begins with the rapture (at Pentecost) and to my understanding 4 months prior to the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel.
Doing the math I find 88 months for the duration of the day of Christ.

‘The day of the Lord’ is really something else than ‘the day of Christ’.

Reading verse 3 and just what it says means that the revelation of the AC comes first before the rapture.
So, this proves ‘the doctrine of imminence’ to be false.

Post this on a Christian forum and in many cases you will be blocked.
Try to explain this to a Bible teacher in a friendly and respectful way and …… you will not be answered.

My brother in Christ, I am respecting your view about the rapture with the events accompanying it.
I explained my view on this matter and the expectations I have about it to hand you something to think over.
And I hope you will continue to watch carefully things unfolding and perhaps my writings will be usefull.

Your brother in Christ,
Cees.

Same to you and may you have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

 

[Earth and heaven]

Same to you and may you have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

Cees, there is nooooo rapture I repeat there is no rapture! The word for "falling away, in the Greek manuscript is "apostasy". Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him , nor is He coming here to the earth, except there be a falling away first. The purpose of the second letter that Paul wrote to the Thessalonians was to remind them of his first letter to them, about Christ's returning and our gathering back to Him. Because of the misunderstanding that could be drawn from the first letter, he writes the following. 11Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ at hand. Paul makes its plain and simple; Paul told them not to confuse what he is saying here with any other teaching, or spirit or his first letter where false teachers had crept in and twisted Paul's words. The prime example of this today is the twisting of that first letter to the 1Thessalonians by the "rapture theorist," to form the trap that has been set for the Christians in this final generation. 11Thessalonians2:3"let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition," The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan has already been condemned to die to [perish] by God. Satan's judgement day was in the first earth age, and he will not take part in the Great White Throne judgment, or any other judgement yet to come. [Ezekiel28: Covers this judgement]. Paul is telling us that Jesus and His Elect will not be gathered to Him until the "son of perdition [Satan] " be revealed first. 11Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing that he is God." Isaiah tells us this very samething. Remember, the temple of God is on Mount zion, and "on the side of the North". Isaiah14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations?" Satan will play the role of God - this name "Lucifer" in the Hebrew tongue means "morning star". It identifies Satan himself in the role that he will be playing when these events of the end times come to pass. "O" Lucifer" in the Strong's Hebrew Dictionary is number #1966. "Heylel, hay-lale; from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning star Lucifer. Isaiah14:13 "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars [sons] of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the North." The sides of the north is where Jesus Christ's temple will be. Satan is saying i'm going to be God and I will be above and in control of Gods people! Isaiah 14:4 "I will ascend about the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." Satan is saying again, he is going to be God. Isaiah14:15 "Yet thou shall be brought down to hell [sheol], to the sides of the pit. Satan comes out of the pit and put back into the pit when Jesus returns. The son of perdition, is Lucifer, who is Satan of 11Thessalonians2:3. Turn with me to Revelation17:8"The beast that thou sawest, was and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into [perdition:] and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is [shall come]." This beast "that thou [John] sawest", was in the first earth age; and is not on this earth now, as it is written in Revelation 12:7. Satan is in heaven being our accuser, and will be cast out of heaven to this earth very shortly by Michael. "Satan claiming to God" is the abomination, that Jesus talked about in Matthew 24:15, the very same thing that Daniel called it in Daniel 9:27; "the Abomination of desolation". A more correct translation in the "James Moffatt translation Bible " is called "The abomination by the desolator". Satan claiming to be God" is the abomination, and he is also the desolator. Lets turn back to 11Thessolonians2:6"And now you know what withholdeth [that which restraineth to the end] that he might be revealed in his time [own season]." It is Michael who holdeth and restraineth the son of perdition [Satan]. 11Thessolonians2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity [lawlessness] doeth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." The "mystery of lawlessness" is the mystery of iniquity. "He who now letteth will let"; in the Greek should be translated; "He who holds fast [Ketcho] will stand." The ellipsis, or "omission from an expression of a word clearly is implied", "there is one who hold's fast", instead of by repeating the verb, "will let". However, "Katecho" is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied also. The subject in verse six is Satan, and the object is his position in the heavenlies. "Out of the way", in the Greek is "out of ek", or "the midst'. It is the same expression used in Acts17:33, and 1Corinthian5:2. This is Michael who "holds fast' on to Lucifer [the antichrist], and Michael will continue to keep Lucifer held until the appointed time. That time is appointed by God! [see Revelation12:7-9. Satan is not here on earth now he is not a flesh man he is a angle of light. There will not be a 7 year tribulation - Jesus shortened the time for the Elect's sake [Matthew24:22. The tribulation will only be 5 months read Revelation9:5. The Elect are the true Church [ the chosen ones] by God.

 

[Earth and heaven]

Same to you and may you have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

Remember, Jesus said after the tribulation that He would gather His Elect. Read Matthew24:29-30. There is no rapture! The people that believe in the rapture will end up worshipping Satan [the antichrist]. Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him whose names are not written in the book of lift of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Major1]

Remember, Jesus said after the tribulation that He would gather His Elect. Read Matthew24:29-30. There is no rapture! The people that believe in the rapture will end up worshipping Satan [the antichrist]. Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him whose names are not written in the book of lift of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

You are free to believe that my friend. I have spoken to way to many people over the years on this and with no disrespect to you, not one single words I can say to you will matter to you.

You are entrenched in what someone has taught to you and I simply am not going to waste anytime in arguing with you.

God bless you and be well!

 

[Dave Watchman]

Cees, there is nooooo rapture I repeat there is no rapture! The word for "falling away, in the Greek manuscript is "apostasy". Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him , nor is He coming here to the earth, except there be a falling away first. The purpose of the second letter that Paul wrote to the Thessalonians was to remind them of his first letter to them, about Christ's returning and our gathering back to Him. Because of the misunderstanding that could be drawn from the first letter, he writes the following. 11Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ at hand. Paul makes its plain and simple; Paul told them not to confuse what he is saying here with any other teaching, or spirit or his first letter where false teachers had crept in and twisted Paul's words. The prime example of this today is the twisting of that first letter to the 1Thessalonians by the "rapture theorist," to form the trap that has been set for the Christians in this final generation. 11Thessalonians2:3"let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition," The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan has already been condemned to die to [perish] by God. Satan's judgement day was in the first earth age, and he will not take part in the Great White Throne judgment, or any other judgement yet to come. [Ezekiel28: Covers this judgement]. Paul is telling us that Jesus and His Elect will not be gathered to Him until the "son of perdition [Satan] " be revealed first. 11Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing that he is God." Isaiah tells us this very samething. Remember, the temple of God is on Mount zion, and "on the side of the North". Isaiah14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations?" Satan will play the role of God - this name "Lucifer" in the Hebrew tongue means "morning star". It identifies Satan himself in the role that he will be playing when these events of the end times come to pass. "O" Lucifer" in the Strong's Hebrew Dictionary is number #1966. "Heylel, hay-lale; from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning star Lucifer. Isaiah14:13 "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars [sons] of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the North." The sides of the north is where Jesus Christ's temple will be. Satan is saying i'm going to be God and I will be above and in control of Gods people! Isaiah 14:4 "I will ascend about the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." Satan is saying again, he is going to be God. Isaiah14:15 "Yet thou shall be brought down to hell [sheol], to the sides of the pit. Satan comes out of the pit and put back into the pit when Jesus returns. The son of perdition, is Lucifer, who is Satan of 11Thessalonians2:3. Turn with me to Revelation17:8"The beast that thou sawest, was and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into [perdition:] and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is [shall come]." This beast "that thou [John] sawest", was in the first earth age; and is not on this earth now, as it is written in Revelation 12:7. Satan is in heaven being our accuser, and will be cast out of heaven to this earth very shortly by Michael. "Satan claiming to God" is the abomination, that Jesus talked about in Matthew 24:15, the very same thing that Daniel called it in Daniel 9:27; "the Abomination of desolation". A more correct translation in the "James Moffatt translation Bible " is called "The abomination by the desolator". Satan claiming to be God" is the abomination, and he is also the desolator. Lets turn back to 11Thessolonians2:6"And now you know what withholdeth [that which restraineth to the end] that he might be revealed in his time [own season]." It is Michael who holdeth and restraineth the son of perdition [Satan]. 11Thessolonians2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity [lawlessness] doeth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." The "mystery of lawlessness" is the mystery of iniquity. "He who now letteth will let"; in the Greek should be translated; "He who holds fast [Ketcho] will stand." The ellipsis, or "omission from an expression of a word clearly is implied", "there is one who hold's fast", instead of by repeating the verb, "will let". However, "Katecho" is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied also. The subject in verse six is Satan, and the object is his position in the heavenlies. "Out of the way", in the Greek is "out of ek", or "the midst'. It is the same expression used in Acts17:33, and 1Corinthian5:2. This is Michael who "holds fast' on to Lucifer [the antichrist], and Michael will continue to keep Lucifer held until the appointed time. That time is appointed by God! [see Revelation12:7-9. Satan is not here on earth now he is not a flesh man he is a angle of light. There will not be a 7 year tribulation - Jesus shortened the time for the Elect's sake [Matthew24:22. The tribulation will only be 5 months read Revelation9:5. The Elect are the true Church [ the chosen ones] by God.

This sounds like a pretty good write up.

I wasn't going to read through it, but was glad i did.

You have a lot on the go in there.

The subject in verse six is Satan, and the object is his position in the heavenlies. "Out of the way", in the Greek is "out of ek", or "the midst'. It is the same expression used in Acts17:33, and 1Corinthian5:2. This is Michael who "holds fast' on to Lucifer [the antichrist], and Michael will continue to keep Lucifer held until the appointed time. That time is appointed by God! [see Revelation12:7-9. Satan is not here on earth now he is not a flesh man he is a angle of light. There will not be a 7 year tribulation - Jesus shortened the time for the Elect's sake [Matthew24:22. The tribulation will only be 5 months read Revelation9:5. The Elect are the true Church [ the chosen ones] by God.

I was just talking about this "EK' word in another thread.

"Because you have kept my word about patient endurance,
I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.
​

I will keep you "EK". This can also mean: I will keep you "during" the hour of trial", and seems to fit better with being raised up on the "last day".

God can "hold fast" on to us in the midst of the hour of trial just as He is holding fast onto Lucifer still at the present time.

You are not the first one that has considered a five month tribulation.

I think the five months will be a part of the final "year" of recompense.

Welcome to the forum E and H.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Earth and heaven]

You are free to believe that my friend. I have spoken to way to many people over the years on this and with no disrespect to you, not one single words I can say to you will matter to you.

You are entrenched in what someone has taught to you and I simply am not going to waste anytime in arguing with you.

God bless you and be well!

Prove your rapture!

 

[Major1]

Prove your rapture!

You do not understand. I have no Rapture to prove. I just read what the Bible says as it is Go's Rapture not mine.

Prove the 2nd Coming of Christ!

 

[Earth and heaven]

You are free to believe that my friend. I have spoken to way to many people over the years on this and with no disrespect to you, not one single words I can say to you will matter to you.

You are entrenched in what someone has taught to you and I simply am not going to waste anytime in arguing with you.

God bless you and be well!

I do not belong to any religious groups or denominations, non-denominations, or congregations. I am entrenched with Gods Word!

You are free to believe that my friend. I have spoken to way to many people over the years on this and with no disrespect to you, not one single words I can say to you will matter to you.

You are entrenched in what someone has taught to you and I simply am not going to waste anytime in arguing with you.

God bless you and be well!

 

[Major1]

I do not belong to any religious groups or denominations, non-denominations, or congregations. I am entrenched with Gods Word!

That is exactly what I said. Maybe you should be entrenched in a good Bible teaching Christian church surrounded by people who can help your understanding.

Blessing to you my friend.

 

[Earth and heaven]

You do not understand. I have no Rapture to prove. I just read what the Bible says as it is Go's Rapture not mine.

Prove the 2nd Coming of Christ!

Act1:9"And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. While Jesus ws teaching these things, all the people were watching and listening, Jesus was taken up into heaven. Acts 1:10"And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 'while the people had total concentration on observing Jesus being taken up into heaven two men were there standing by them. Jesus expects us to be witnesses for Him, as to how He walked the earth and how He left this earth and what events that will take place that will make Him return to this earth. These two men might be the same two that appeared in the tomb, when Jesus was raised from the dead, and they went to the opened grave. Luke24:3,4;"And they entered in, and found not the body of Jesus.[3]"And it come to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shinning garments:" They talked to Mary and the other women, that came to the tomb. This is now forty days later, that he made His last visit in the title of Jesus, and then left in that cloud. Acts1:11"Which also said, " Ye men of Galile, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven. ' DID YOPU GET THAT? You are going to see Jesus come back to earth, at the second advent, coming in like manner as these men and women have see Jesus ascend up into heaven. Jesus is going to return exactly as He had left. There is not going to be a stopping in space, while some claiming to be Christians are whisked away, flying out of here, or an invisible Christ that you can not see! NO; it will be exactly in like manner as Jesus going into heaven. Jesus left from the Mount of Olives, and He ascend up into the clouds, and He is going to come back in the same manner. It can't be that hard to understand as many so-called religious scholars try to make it, with all their ' hocus pocus rapture doctrines and also their created fairy-tale doctrines that Jesus is already here on the earth. What a damnable lie to mislead people! Return to Revelation1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of [mourn over] Him. Even so, a-men."This event is the second advent taking place here, when Jesus will return "with clouds', with the masses" of His saints. This is not fairy-tale fly away, as many of the churches teach today. "They that pierced Him is referring to all the Jewish religious leaders, the ones that killed Jesus by delivering Him to Pilot. Every person on this earth will see Jesus upon His second coming. Return to Revelation 14:1:And I looked, and lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their forheads." This again is JESUS SECOND ADVENT! So Christ has returned here, and is with the 144,000 sealed, of chapter seven. Remember that the 144,000 sealed of the tribes never went anywhere, but remained here on earth during the time of the antichrist. Not one of these saints yielded to Satan the false Christ, nor took his name, nor his number. They did not take the 'mark of the Beast', because they had ' their Fathers name in their forheads'. They knew how to identify Satan,and the first Messiah was the fake. that marking was placed in their minds back in chapter seven, when God told the 'four Spirits of God,' to hold their position, until this group could be sealed. That sealing in process today, and many are seeing. Skip to verse 3, "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts [living creatures], and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.' The word redeemed is number #59in the Strong's Greek dictionary. The word is [purchased]. This is the 144,000 that are finally redeemed[purchased by Christ's blood] from the earth. They are in their spiritual [soul] bodies, which are eternal, incorruptible, and immortality. This is because the last trumpet has sounded, and all people were changed in a twinkling [wink] of an eye [1Corinthians15:50-54]. Christ is standing with this group on Mount of Olives. They have been "purchased" from this earth age with the blood of the Lamb. They no longer belong to this earth age, but to the next age to come, the Millennium. Verse 4 presents 144,000 of Isreal, along with many other races and people

 

[Major1]

Act1:9"And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. While Jesus ws teaching these things, all the people were watching and listening, Jesus was taken up into heaven. Acts 1:10"And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 'while the people had total concentration on observing Jesus being taken up into heaven two men were there standing by them. Jesus expects us to be witnesses for Him, as to how He walked the earth and how He left this earth and what events that will take place that will make Him return to this earth. These two men might be the same two that appeared in the tomb, when Jesus was raised from the dead, and they went to the opened grave. Luke24:3,4;"And they entered in, and found not the body of Jesus.[3]"And it come to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shinning garments:" They talked to Mary and the other women, that came to the tomb. This is now forty days later, that he made His last visit in the title of Jesus, and then left in that cloud. Acts1:11"Which also said, " Ye men of Galile, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven. ' DID YOPU GET THAT? You are going to see Jesus come back to earth, at the second advent, coming in like manner as these men and women have see Jesus ascend up into heaven. Jesus is going to return exactly as He had left. There is not going to be a stopping in space, while some claiming to be Christians are whisked away, flying out of here, or an invisible Christ that you can not see! NO; it will be exactly in like manner as Jesus going into heaven. Jesus left from the Mount of Olives, and He ascend up into the clouds, and He is going to come back in the same manner. It can't be that hard to understand as many so-called religious scholars try to make it, with all their ' hocus pocus rapture doctrines and also their created fairy-tale doctrines that Jesus is already here on the earth. What a damnable lie to mislead people! Return to Revelation1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of [mourn over] Him. Even so, a-men."This event is the second advent taking place here, when Jesus will return "with clouds', with the masses" of His saints. This is not fairy-tale fly away, as many of the churches teach today. "They that pierced Him is referring to all the Jewish religious leaders, the ones that killed Jesus by delivering Him to Pilot. Every person on this earth will see Jesus upon His second coming. Return to Revelation 14:1:And I looked, and lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their forheads." This again is JESUS SECOND ADVENT! So Christ has returned here, and is with the 144,000 sealed, of chapter seven. Remember that the 144,000 sealed of the tribes never went anywhere, but remained here on earth during the time of the antichrist. Not one of these saints yielded to Satan the false Christ, nor took his name, nor his number. They did not take the 'mark of the Beast', because they had ' their Fathers name in their forheads'. They knew how to identify Satan,and the first Messiah was the fake. that marking was placed in their minds back in chapter seven, when God told the 'four Spirits of God,' to hold their position, until this group could be sealed. That sealing in process today, and many are seeing. Skip to verse 3, "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts [living creatures], and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.' The word redeemed is number #59in the Strong's Greek dictionary. The word is [purchased]. This is the 144,000 that are finally redeemed[purchased by Christ's blood] from the earth. They are in their spiritual [soul] bodies, which are eternal, incorruptible, and immortality. This is because the last trumpet has sounded, and all people were changed in a twinkling [wink] of an eye [1Corinthians15:50-54]. Christ is standing with this group on Mount of Olives. They have been "purchased" from this earth age with the blood of the Lamb. They no longer belong to this earth age, but to the next age to come, the Millennium. Verse 4 presents 144,000 of Isreal, along with many other races and people

The same source that contains the 2nd Coming of Christ also contains the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

A Post-Tribulation Or Mid-Tribulation Rapture is Illogical

The Bible clearly teaches that there will be a judgment for all believers at the Judgment Seat of Christ (2nd Corinthians 5:10).

The Bible also teaches that there will be the Marriage Supper of the Lamb for all believers (Revelation 19:9).

If the Rapture isn't going to happen until DURING or AFTER the Tribulation, then when do these events occur?

A Post-Tribulation Rapture theory creates a serious dilemma in that there will be no time for the Judgment Seat of Christ nor the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. It is logical that the Rapture must occur BEFORE the Tribulation; and the Tribulation must occur BEFORE the Millennial reign of Christ from Jerusalem.

Jesus came to earth the first time "TO" His own approximately 2,000 years ago

Jesus is coming at the rapture "FOR" His own

Jesus is coming again at the second coming "WITH" His own

I've never heard it said any simpler than that. Jesus will come again at the Rapture FOR His own (i.e., for all the Saints throughout history). The dead in Christ shall be raised first and then Christians who are alive will be changed. Personally, I do not believe that the entire Rapture will occur in less than a second. I believe that the Bible is teaching that we as INDIVIDUALS will be changed in less than a second. The trumpet, voice of the archangel, raising of the dead first, and then the living, may be a significantly longer time. Howbeit, we know that we WILL BE CHANGED in the twinkling of an eye.

Jude 1:14 says, "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints."

The Lord will return with tens-of-thousands of His saints at the Second Coming. This event occurs 7-years AFTER the Rapture of the Saints. In order for us to return WITH the Lord, we have to first be WITH the Lord. This is further evidence of a Pretribulation Rapture.

 

[seventysevens]

There is no rapture! The people that believe in the rapture will end up worshipping Satan [the antichrist]. Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him whose names are not written in the book of lift of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Well here is evidence of proving the scripture says there will be those who turn away from sound doctrine , cause this is proof that scripture has been fulfilled
The rapture is CLEARLY taught in scripture unless you have one of them cultist type books

 

[Earth and heaven]

Well here is evidence of proving the scripture says there will be those who turn away from sound doctrine , cause this is proof that scripture has been fulfilled
The rapture is CLEARLY taught in scripture unless you have one of them cultist type books

Revelation 13:4 "And they worshipped the dragon which [because he] gave power [his authority] unto the beast [one world order] and they worshipped saying, who is like the beasts? Who is able to make war with him. The Christian world will worship Satan [antichrist]. and "the one world system." Skip two verse 7, "And it was given unto him [antichrist] to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. The saints are still here on earth. At this time Satan rules over the whole world. The Elect of God will be delivered up to testify against Satan and those Christians that are following and worshipping him. Mothers will turn their own daughters and sons in why would they do that because they think Satan is Christ. There is no rapture!

 

[Earth and heaven]

Revelation 13:4 "And they worshipped the dragon which [because he] gave power [his authority] unto the beast [one world order] and they worshipped saying, who is like the beasts? Who is able to make war with him. The Christian world will worship Satan [antichrist]. and "the one world system." Skip two verse 7, "And it was given unto him [antichrist] to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. The saints are still here on earth. At this time Satan rules over the whole world. The Elect of God will be delivered up to testify against Satan and those Christians that are following and worshipping him. Mothers will turn their own daughters and sons in why would they do that because they think Satan is Christ. There is no rapture!

Prove your rapture-its not in the Bible. Rapture is a false doctrine make up by unlearned men who don't understand the manuscripts.

 

[Earth and heaven]

The same source that contains the 2nd Coming of Christ also contains the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

A Post-Tribulation Or Mid-Tribulation Rapture is Illogical

The Bible clearly teaches that there will be a judgment for all believers at the Judgment Seat of Christ (2nd Corinthians 5:10).

The Bible also teaches that there will be the Marriage Supper of the Lamb for all believers (Revelation 19:9).

If the Rapture isn't going to happen until DURING or AFTER the Tribulation, then when do these events occur?

A Post-Tribulation Rapture theory creates a serious dilemma in that there will be no time for the Judgment Seat of Christ nor the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. It is logical that the Rapture must occur BEFORE the Tribulation; and the Tribulation must occur BEFORE the Millennial reign of Christ from Jerusalem.

Jesus came to earth the first time "TO" His own approximately 2,000 years ago

Jesus is coming at the rapture "FOR" His own

Jesus is coming again at the second coming "WITH" His own

I've never heard it said any simpler than that. Jesus will come again at the Rapture FOR His own (i.e., for all the Saints throughout history). The dead in Christ shall be raised first and then Christians who are alive will be changed. Personally, I do not believe that the entire Rapture will occur in less than a second. I believe that the Bible is teaching that we as INDIVIDUALS will be changed in less than a second. The trumpet, voice of the archangel, raising of the dead first, and then the living, may be a significantly longer time. Howbeit, we know that we WILL BE CHANGED in the twinkling of an eye.

Jude 1:14 says, "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints."

The Lord will return with tens-of-thousands of His saints at the Second Coming. This event occurs 7-years AFTER the Rapture of the Saints. In order for us to return WITH the Lord, we have to first be WITH the Lord. This is further evidence of a Pretribulation Rapture.

1Thessalonians4:lays the foundation of what is called the "rapture theory" in the next five verse. That is all it is a theory and a lie! 1Thessalonians4:13 :But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope". The next five verses is used to teach the false doctrine of men! It was very important to Paul, to teach what happen when you die. It is a very stabilizing factor in the life of Christians to be able to remove the fear that comes from the unknown of ones death. Paul gives us information for one reason, and that is, that we not be ignorant as the heathen are! In other words, Paul doesn't want Christians stupid. This concern is over "them which are asleep." The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are not out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's Word, and His promises. The heathen have no hoped, for they believe it's over at the burial. 1Thessaloians4:14"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. "If we believe, as a Christians, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did in dying, and rising again then 'to sleep" means the flesh body is dead. The Greek is a simple language, for its structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If your're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus died, was buried, and on the third day arose and cameout of the tomb. If you do not belive this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and you are a heathen [non-believer]. It was on the fortieth day that He ascended back to the Father. Those that sleep [are dead] their souls are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. " To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord. "Ecclesiastes12:7. When this flesh body is dead, the soul is gone from it, and the flesh is left to rot. The subject is about " where are the dead! So see that when one dies, his soul goes immediately to be with the Father. If you believe this, you are not a heathen. 1Thessalonians4:15"For we say unto you, by the Word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep." What, Paul is stating here in this verse is not his words, but it is from the Word of God who gave it to Paul. Where it is written is in Ecclesiastes12:7. "We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, "this is our gathering back to Christ. "Shall not prevent them,' would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them. "We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. If you do not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father and not in the ground. 1Thessalonians4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; " Jesus is going to return, at the seventh trump also called [the last trump] by Paul. Why the dead in Christ rise first? Because they already there, and with Him. The seventh trump will sound when the two witnesses are killed read Revelation 11:11-15. 1Thessalonians4:17"When we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we for ever be with the Lord." There is no FLY AWAY HERE, no dodging of the religious tribulation of the antichrist and his new world order, the true Christ at the seventh trump will come and establish His Kingdom on earth and you will see it in your spiritual body. DO YOU GOT THAT? What about the word cloud and the word air? The "clouds" are in reference to a large gathering of people, he decribes a large group as being like a cloud. turn to Hebrews12:1" Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us." Go back to 1Thessalonians4:17 Paul spoke colloquial Greek, and Paul was using a figure of speech when he used the word "cloud" here. The word "cloud" is in reference to the number that are in the group. The word "air" in the Greek dictionary is # 109, and is the "breath of lift", your "breath of life" body is your soul, or spiritual body. This is the mystery Paul spoke of in 1corinthians15:50-54. There is no rapture! Repent before its to late for you that are teaching this false doctrine!

 

[Major1]

1Thessalonians4:lays the foundation of what is called the "rapture theory" in the next five verse. That is all it is a theory and a lie! 1Thessalonians4:13 :But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope". The next five verses is used to teach the false doctrine of men! It was very important to Paul, to teach what happen when you die. It is a very stabilizing factor in the life of Christians to be able to remove the fear that comes from the unknown of ones death. Paul gives us information for one reason, and that is, that we not be ignorant as the heathen are! In other words, Paul doesn't want Christians stupid. This concern is over "them which are asleep." The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are not out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's Word, and His promises. The heathen have no hoped, for they believe it's over at the burial. 1Thessaloians4:14"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. "If we believe, as a Christians, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did in dying, and rising again then 'to sleep" means the flesh body is dead. The Greek is a simple language, for its structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If your're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus died, was buried, and on the third day arose and cameout of the tomb. If you do not belive this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and you are a heathen [non-believer]. It was on the fortieth day that He ascended back to the Father. Those that sleep [are dead] their souls are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. " To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord. "Ecclesiastes12:7. When this flesh body is dead, the soul is gone from it, and the flesh is left to rot. The subject is about " where are the dead! So see that when one dies, his soul goes immediately to be with the Father. If you believe this, you are not a heathen. 1Thessalonians4:15"For we say unto you, by the Word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep." What, Paul is stating here in this verse is not his words, but it is from the Word of God who gave it to Paul. Where it is written is in Ecclesiastes12:7. "We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, "this is our gathering back to Christ. "Shall not prevent them,' would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them. "We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. If you do not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father and not in the ground. 1Thessalonians4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; " Jesus is going to return, at the seventh trump also called [the last trump] by Paul. Why the dead in Christ rise first? Because they already there, and with Him. The seventh trump will sound when the two witnesses are killed read Revelation 11:11-15. 1Thessalonians4:17"When we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we for ever be with the Lord." There is no FLY AWAY HERE, no dodging of the religious tribulation of the antichrist and his new world order, the true Christ at the seventh trump will come and establish His Kingdom on earth and you will see it in your spiritual body. DO YOU GOT THAT? What about the word cloud and the word air? The "clouds" are in reference to a large gathering of people, he decribes a large group as being like a cloud. turn to Hebrews12:1" Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us." Go back to 1Thessalonians4:17 Paul spoke colloquial Greek, and Paul was using a figure of speech when he used the word "cloud" here. The word "cloud" is in reference to the number that are in the group. The word "air" in the Greek dictionary is # 109, and is the "breath of lift", your "breath of life" body is your soul, or spiritual body. This is the mystery Paul spoke of in 1corinthians15:50-54. There is no rapture! Repent before its to late for you that are teaching this false doctrine!

Just some friendly advice. When you copy and paste is such a "BLOCK" method, it makes reading it impossible.

Try using paragraphs, commas and such.

Now then, those that reject a Pre-tribulation Rapture say, "Nowhere in the Bible does it directly say that the Church will be raptured before the tribulation."

Pre-trib opponents should have thought this one through because any pre-tribulationist has the same right to say, “Nowhere in the Bible does it directly say the Church will go through the tribulation.”

Jesus did say in Matt. 24:44.......
“Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh”.

The only time frame I can think of when we believers would not be expecting Jesus to return would have to be before the tribulation.

 

[Major1]

Well here is evidence of proving the scripture says there will be those who turn away from sound doctrine , cause this is proof that scripture has been fulfilled
The rapture is CLEARLY taught in scripture unless you have one of them cultist type books

Agreed!

 

[Major1]

Prove your rapture-its not in the Bible. Rapture is a false doctrine make up by unlearned men who don't understand the manuscripts.

I love the comment as it always makes me laugh when I see.............."YOUR Rapture".

Then the next comment is..............
"Rapture is a false doctrine make up by unlearned men who don't understand the manuscripts."

Isn't it clear where the lack of "unlearned men" problem lies when we think that any of us have YOUR doctrine.

2 Tim. 3:16.........
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work."

All learned men/women know that doctrine is God centered and not man derived.

Now I do not want to be mean or disrespectful to anyone, but I really do not care if you believe in the Rapture or you reject it. The fact that you are on a computer on a Christian web site confirms that you have read the Bible. It is therefore YOUR CHOICE as to what YOU want to accept or reject from that Word of God.

As for me, having studied many years, all the different teachings of men on the Rapture, I came to the conclusion that the only scenario that allowed ALL the pieces of eschatology to fit perfectly together is the pre-tribulation Rapture position.

IF you do not accept it......Wonderful! I am glad for you!

One of if not the most telling fact is that the Rapture could happen at any moment and without warning BUT the Second Coming of Christ is preceded by many, many signs. That being the Bible fact, then the Rapture and Second Coming must be different events.

The Rapture has to occur before the seven years’ worth of signs, because Christians are called to look for the Lord’s return rather than signs such as the Antichrist’s arrival. Once the signs begin, then the seven year countdown begins towards its end with Christ’s return at the Second Coming.

Jesus Himself said that "NO man know the time of My coming again, Only the Father knows".

The believers must be removed because the signs will allow those here on the earth to correctly calculate the time of the 2nd Coming of Christ. Since that is the case it would then make the Lord Jesus Christ, the God-Man, God in the flesh, our Saviour a LIAR which would then in effect make Him a SINNER!!!!

Then we would still be in our sin and we would have NO hope.

Because the revealing of the Antichrist coincides with the beginning of the 7-year Tribulation starting with his peace treaty with Israel as seen in Dan. 9:27, then the Restrainer (Holy Spirit) has to be removed before the Tribulation.

If that is something you can not grasp, then again, it is your choice.