What Are the Ramp Church Beliefs? Is It a Cult?

[4EVERH15]

Why is it thought that "The Ramp" in Alabama is a cult? I know that they have connections with false prophets from the charismatic movement, but is this church dangerous?

P.S. I'm new. Can you search threads? Thanks.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Why is it thought that "The Ramp" in Alabama is a cult? I know that they have connections with false prophets from the charismatic movement, but is this church dangerous?

P.S. I'm new. Can you search threads? Thanks.

Yes, you can search threads here, but I really doubt you will find any threads about the Ramp. Personally, I had never heard of it until I ran across your thread. I did a cursory look at their website and a look at a website exposing it as a cult.

I am not charismatic or pentecostal and find much in those denominations to be erroneous and unbiblical, among which is having women pastors. At the very least, Karen Wheatley Towe is usurping authority from men in the church (I Timothy 2:12). I would stay as far away from her and her group as possible.

 

[4EVERH15]

Thank you. I was thinking the same thing.
I also discovered from their site, that they have a strange hierarchy of Towe followed by her personally appointed "Chosen" crew, and the prophets under the apostles. And they use the phrase "spiritual authority" for their "prophets" which worries me. Especially the proven false prophets they are associated with. Only the Bible has spiritual authority, if you're prophets preach otherwise, then someone's wrong.

God bless.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Thank you. I was thinking the same thing.
I also discovered from their site, that they have a strange hierarchy of Towe followed by her personally appointed "Chosen" crew, and the prophets under the apostles. And they use the phrase "spiritual authority" for their "prophets" which worries me. Especially the proven false prophets they are associated with. Only the Bible has spiritual authority, if you're prophets preach otherwise, then someone's wrong.

God bless.

I agree entirely. God bless you, as well.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Why is it thought that "The Ramp" in Alabama is a cult? I know that they have connections with false prophets from the charismatic movement, but is this church dangerous?

P.S. I'm new. Can you search threads? Thanks.

I've never heard of the group, so without more information it'd be difficult to say anything one way or the other.

When using Google I came across one website simply called The Ramp, and another The Ramp Church. Are they related? Or are they different?

In the latter ("The Ramp Church"), their Statement of Faith would place them outside of historic, orthodox Christian teaching as they seem to subscribe to a Sabellian theology, and follow the heretical "Oneness" doctrine and their baptismal practices.

Though more information might be helpful.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[4EVERH15]

The site is theramp.org

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

From a doctrinal standpoint, they appear to be Christian, assuming that there aren't any bizarre beliefs couched behind the more traditional language of their website. They're Trinitarian, and hold to a pretty standard Pentecostal belief set (this usually includes female preachers, as other people have noted). They don't appear to be socially authoritarian over their members or emotionally abusive, although obviously their own website isn't going to say it if they are. We would both agree that they hold to some unorthodox theology, but that brings up an important point.

I'll kind of warn away from the usage of "cult" to describe an unorthodox group, as I always do in this sort of situation. It sets up a parallel terminology, and when you do that, you make a language barrier between yourself and the general population. I've never been a fan of that sort of language, even when I was a fundamentalist Calvinist. "Cult" in general terminology refers to an emotionally, socially, or physically abusive religious group. That's why I was uncomfortable with an unusual use for it.

 

[4EVERH15]

I understand. I was actually wondering if there was evidence for it being a cult in the word's original meaning, but also wanted to see if there is anything else to point out.

I don't think I've found anything, other than they may focus too much on taking cash from teenagers and there may be a few things to watch out for.

 

[Thefunkyfundy]

unorthodox theology

= cult, abomination, heresey, satanic, evil, wicked, preversion, false, lies etc etc etc.

you sound far too liberal in your views towards pussey footing around false doctrine in your desire to be seen to be level headed and pragmatic. Why?

 

[SentinelNation]

The Ramp is not a cult by any stretch of the imagination. While the core of their belief system is very similar to the Pentecostal denomination, Church of God (which makes sense seeing as many of their leaders have attended Lee University in Cleveland, TN.), they tend to lean more toward nondenominationalism seeing as some of the leaders do come from Calvinistic and / or Holiness backgrounds.

The Ramp began as a youth ministry and held youth conferences for many years where youth groups from around the country would attend. Some churches have even sent their problematic teenagers to these conferences where most seem to return saved.

For many years, the Ramp would not take a dime from teenagers but relied on partners to operate even though they would take up offerings so that those who wanted to give could give.

However, over the past year or so, the Ramp has moved away from being a youth conference center and have become an actual church due to the large volume of people who have actually moved their to serve.

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

The only way one is going to know what the group is all about is to be there. Sit there for a while and watch. However one needs to know their bible very strongly. Another thing is we are to be careful that we do not come close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit, when we say, "That is of the devil" or many other statements. I have never been to The Ramp, so I cannot say. Nor is it my place to judge, that would be God's job.

Also one needs to be careful what they read over the internet as some of it is from people who do not believe certain things in the bible or it goes against THEIR belief system. Sometimes things are put on the internet, to slander, backbite and gossip. I don't believe everything as truth on the internet.

However I do believe that we are to expose false teachings that are within the churches as we are instructed to in the bible. But is this to our benefit or to God's glory? As stated earlier one needs to be grounded in the word of God. The bible tells us to study to show ourselves approved unto God.

Moriah Ruth

 

[nowfaith86]

Speaking as someone who has been very involved with the ramp and has many friends in leadership there, I can tell you 100% they are NOT a cult. They love Jesus with all of their heart and simply desire to see people touched with the gospel. ...their is a difference in disagreeing on certain theological points and disagreeing on the basics of the faith.

 

[Adaephon]

= cult, abomination, heresey, satanic, evil, wicked, preversion, false, lies etc etc etc.

you sound far too liberal in your views towards pussey footing around false doctrine in your desire to be seen to be level headed and pragmatic. Why?

Probably because, despite what you say, words have set meanings that you can't just ignore. A group with inorthodox theology is not necessarily a cult.

 

[nobreak1970]

I live in Alabama, and one of our local tv stations carried their services on Sunday evenings. Really seems like it's a big rock concert atmosphere for kids to love Jesus. Some preaching, and the "Chosen" are a liturgical dance group but could be more.
Anywho...that's all I know.
Cult? Nah.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

= cult, abomination, heresey, satanic, evil, wicked, preversion, false, lies etc etc etc.

you sound far too liberal in your views towards pussey footing around false doctrine in your desire to be seen to be level headed and pragmatic. Why?

Because, as adaephon put it, words have generally agreed upon meanings. When you try to alter those meanings, you set up a sort of language barrier between yourself and others. If I'm speaking to someone who understands "cult" to mean "a dangerous and possibly violent group" and I understand it to mean "a heretical sect", then I can come across as hyperbolic.

Let's say that I referred to Mormonism as a cult. Under the "unorthodox group" definition, I would be right. Mormonism is very unorthodox, to the extent that we don't even consider them to be Christians. If I said that to a random person on the street, though, they would wonder why I considered Mormonism to be a cult, even if they understood and disagreed with its beliefs. If I didn't explain myself thoroughly, they would likely assume that I meant that I believed Mormonism was a cult according to their definition. This is why it is very risky to utilize language in an unusual way.

Another way of putting this: the worship given to God by the Jews in the temple was a cult. I can say that with a perfectly straight face, because in an academic sense, "cult" is a term used to refer to the external acts associated with worship. You participate in a cult every time you attend a church service and pray as a member of an assembly. This is an entirely legitimate usage of the word. That said, if you stepped out of church and someone asked you if you enjoyed your cult today, you would probably be offended. That's because this particular definition of "cult" is not common.

If the definition of "cult" you use is not common and is not generally understood, then your message loses much of its power, because that power lies in your ability to communicate clearly and be understood.

 

[River-Dweller]

I went to the Wintrr Ramp in Dalton, Georgia in December of 2011. I have watched them on tv for a long time.

I believe the TULIP best sums up what the Bible teaches about salvation. However, aside from that I am a standard Holiness Pentecostal. That is, I believe that:

1. There is a "stage" of sanctification that is reached after salvation (salvation being justification and positional sanctification). This "stage" is not to be confused with "entire sanctification" or "Christian perfection" but is a sort of "quantum leap" in terms of Christian growth. It is what Puritans that were Reformed sealers like John Owen called a "sealing" of the Spirit.

2. There is a baptism in the Holy Ghost following salvation and sanctification and tongues is the initial evidence of that baptism. John Calvin says in his commentary on the book of Acts that tongues was the initial evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost in the early church although he was a cessationist.

3. Women can serve as pastors and teach the congregation. The Waldenses were a group that started around 1000 A.D. that were very similar to the handful of Calvinistic Holiness Pentecostals that we have today as they ordained women, they were monergists, they were continuationists, and they had an episcopal form of church government. It is my belief that we not only share these beliefs in common with the Waldenses but also with the early church.

4. Without holiness, no one will see the Lord. It's holiness or hell.

I said all of that to say that your particular doctrinal stance will color the lense through which you view a group such as The Ramp. They do sell books by theologians like John Piper but there is also influence from a lot of other streams. I can endorse what they're doing but that doesn't mean that I agree with everything that is said.

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

bbbbbbb said:

unbiblical, among which is having women pastors. At the very least, Karen Wheatley Towe is usurping authority from men in the church (I Timothy 2:12). I would stay as far away from her and her group as possible


KNOWLEDGE BOMB adds

Certainly God is not going to go against His word saying a womens not to teach - then have the Holy Spirit open the scriptures for her to do just that.

 

[Falyn]

Why is it thought that "The Ramp" in Alabama is a cult? I know that they have connections with false prophets from the charismatic movement, but is this church dangerous?

P.S. I'm new. Can you search threads? Thanks.

Yes absolutely they are a cult!! I denied the possibility while my son was attending there after meeting a girl who's family are members. My son lost interest in sports, school, devoted his life to these people and they actually went and filed for guardianship for my child stating I abandoned him. They did this all to make my child a member of there cult! I was never notified even though my location was known by the attorney and the cult. I am now in legal debt fighting for my parental right and to gain custody of my child back. I know he will come home soon but the psychological battle is going to be tough! There has been a lot of brain washing that has taken place. They claim he is homeschooled now, he is smoking and drinking. Beware people and be strict on not allowing your children into this corrupted cult!!

 

[Edmond Smith]

A cult is an organization that takes away the divinity of Christ.
to name a couple

Mormonism
Jehovah Witness

 

[ViaCrucis]

A cult is an organization that takes away the divinity of Christ.
to name a couple

Mormonism
Jehovah Witness

That's not a definition of a cult used by people who generally study and research what cults are. This particular definition you've provided is a fairly idiosyncratic one used, primarily, in an informal way by modern Evangelicals.

A person who denies the deity of Christ is not a member of a cult, they are a heretic.

Cults can, and often do, include heretical or heterodox beliefs, but that isn't the defining feature of a cult.

The Church of Scientology is a cult, though because they do not claim to be Christians we do not categorize them as heretics. The Church of Scientology is a cult because as an institution it engages in cult behaviors, such as brain-washing, member control, thought policing, shunning, and in psychological and emotional abuse.

Heretical groups can be cults.
Groups that are nominally orthodox can also be cults.
And entirely non-Christian groups altogether can be cults.

So, for example, the LDS church probably shouldn't be identified as a cult, however the FLDS (Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day saints) most certainly is a cult. Though both the LDS and FLDS are heretical.

Another example, Mars Hill based out of Seattle, WA when it was under the leadership of Mark Driscoll was a cult, though theologically they asserted the basic tenets of orthodox Christianity and was nominally Reformed in its theology. Mars Hill was a cult because of the way the leadership exercised abusive control over its members. Fortunately Driscoll's authoritarian rule over Mars Hill reached a breaking point and Driscoll was removed, and the central leadership of Mars Hill gave way to more independent congregations. I don't know the current state of affairs, but last I heard things were moving in, at least, a better direction.

Another example of a nominally orthodox cult would be the Exclusive Brethren.

If the only definition we give to a cult is a denial of the deity of Christ, then that would mean groups like the Church of Scientology which doesn't even claim itself to be Christian in any sense would not be a cult, neither would seriously abusive groups like the Exlusive Brethren be regarded as cults.

Cults are not merely heretical Christian groups, they are abusive and emotionally, psychologicall, or even physically and sexually abusive religious groups or institutions whose authoritarian control over membership pose serious risks and dangers to its members. C.f. Heaven's Gate or The People's Temple (aka Jamestown).

-CryptoLutheran