The Radical All

Shrewd Manager

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.
Supporter
Aug 16, 2019
4,167
4,081
Melbourne
✟364,409.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
It would be most helpful if you would quote my posts then respond to them.

Forgot where I read it.

Hence those who cling to the larger hope use this phrase to mean age-long pruning that ultimately leads to salvation of the goats, as disciplinary rather than penal. There is such a distinction as Aristotle pointed out between mōria (vengeance) and kolasis.

So he's not disagreeing with kolasin from pruning.

I have quoted the Eastern Greek Orthodox NT [EOT] several times. See this post above.
The Radical All

So is the EOB something else?

Sputnik is not fake news but whether it was factual or fake is irrelevant, it marks a point in time. It is sort of like the death of JFK. Most people can tell you when it was and what they were doing. I sometimes say the year that Elvis and I were stationed in Germany but people younger than 60 can't relate to that.

JFK's probably fake news too. Check out the 3 or more edits/ splices and other anomalies in the supposed continuous live recording of the Zapruder footage...they subbed in a wax dummy for the headshot and Jackie pulls the cord.

God is good, He saves us from the devil's deceits that befoul the world. That's eyes to see, and what the Bible teaches, anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lazarus Short
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,576
6,063
EST
✟992,249.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Forgot where I read it.
So you just misquote me and continue on?
So he's not disagreeing with kolasin from pruning.
Is that all you got out of my quote? Try reading it again.
So is the EOB something else?
Typo. EOB is correct. These decades old fingers don't always do what I want them to and the eyes are not much better. I learned to type in Germany the year JFK was assassinated
JFK's probably fake news too. Check out the 3 or more edits/ splices and other anomalies in the supposed continuous live recording of the Zapruder footage...they subbed in a wax dummy for the headshot and Jackie pulls the cord.
Sorry I don't do conspiracy theories. I think there is a forum around here somewhere for that.
God is good, He saves us from the devil's deceits that befoul the world. That's eyes to see, and what the Bible teaches, anyway.
And this is relevant to what?
 
Upvote 0

Shrewd Manager

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.
Supporter
Aug 16, 2019
4,167
4,081
Melbourne
✟364,409.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
So you just misquote me and continue on?
How did I misquote you? I said:

'Didn't you just quote some scholar with approval in another thread who says kolasin comes from pruning?'

The scholar AT Robertson, who you quoted, said inter alia 'The word kolasin comes from kolazō, to mutilate or prune.' He goes on to argue that we shouldn't use etymology to limit the scope of kolasin in the context of Matt 25:46.

I don't see him or you denying the etymology of kolasin in that quote.

Typo. EOB is correct. These decades old fingers don't always do what I want them to and the eyes are not much better. I learned to type in Germany the year JFK was assassinated

Maybe the old German typewriter had a different setup.

Sorry I don't do conspiracy theories. I think there is a forum around here somewhere for that.

Just saying the Zapruder footage is doctored. That's not conspiracy, its forensics.
And this is relevant to what?

CONTEXT, my alte friend. We have a touchstone for interpretation of difficult passages, and that is the revelation of the end from the beginning, which is the omega HIS SALVATION, the total victory of Christ, the salvation of all, consummation of the universal covenant by righteousness, every knee and tongue, every nation every soul, every living thing that flies, walks, crawls, swims, drops out of trees, burrows holes in the ground, whether dead, alive, in stasis, born or unborn, black white yellow red blue or pink with orange carbuncles, IT'S ALL GETTING RENEWED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST TO THE DIVINE IMAGE.
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,576
6,063
EST
✟992,249.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
How did I misquote you? I said:
'Didn't you just quote some scholar with approval in another thread who says kolasin comes from pruning?'
By stopping here you made it seem that Robertson believed that "kolasin" means "pruning." And he definitely did not believe that.
The scholar AT Robertson, who you quoted, said inter alia 'The word kolasin comes from kolazō, to mutilate or prune.' He goes on to argue that we shouldn't use etymology to limit the scope of kolasin in the context of Matt 25:46.
I don't see him or you denying the etymology of kolasin in that quote.
Exactly Robertson was warning against the Etymological fallacy which in this case would be "The word kolasin comes from kolazō, to mutilate or prune so 'kolasin' also means mutilate or prune." And Robertson definitely did NOT say that.
Maybe the old German typewriter had a different setup.
The typewriter wasn't German it was American. A Brother portable which I still have it is now 57 years old. I was taking typing classes on base to improve myself. They came in very handy when I was taking courses in the Army, college and grad school.
Just saying the Zapruder footage is doctored. That's not conspiracy, its forensics.
Not doctored, one frame 313 has been withheld because it is so graphic. When Magruder sold the right to the film it was on the condition that frame not be made public.
CONTEXT, my alte friend. We have a touchstone for interpretation of difficult passages, and that is the revelation of the end from the beginning, which is the omega HIS SALVATION, the total victory of Christ, the salvation of all, consummation of the universal covenant by righteousness, every knee and tongue, every nation every soul, every living thing that flies, walks, crawls, swims, drops out of trees, burrows holes in the ground, whether dead, alive, in stasis, born or unborn, black white yellow red blue or pink with orange carbuncles, IT'S ALL GETTING RENEWED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST TO THE DIVINE IMAGE.
Only by ignoring context, patchwork putting disparate verses together.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

nolidad

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 2, 2006
6,762
1,269
69
onj this planet
✟221,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Dear Curtis: There appears to be individuals on our Christian thread at C.F. that question the scope of pas. Furthermore, they not only question the scope, they believe far too much emphasis is placed on that one wee word. Stay tuned.

I see you started a new thread to peddle your poisonous concept of universalism! YOu can cut and paste concordances and lexicons well, just sad you won't delve further and understand that all can be a noun, pronoun, adjective or adverb and based on teh noun or verb carries many many definitions in teh Greek!

THE all limits who or what is spoken of. All by itself whether singular or plural can mean either "everything" or all sorts of different things (but not the totailty of everything) Once agian context and structure determine the meaning.

There is no charge for that Greek lesson by the way. Now that you learned it- USE IT!!!
 
Upvote 0

Shrewd Manager

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.
Supporter
Aug 16, 2019
4,167
4,081
Melbourne
✟364,409.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Exactly Robertson was warning against the Etymological fallacy which in this case would be "The word kolasin comes from kolazō, to mutilate or prune so 'kolasin' also means mutilate or prune." And Robertson definitely did NOT say that.

In the quote Robertson is not disputing the agricultural etymology of kolasin. He appears to be arguing that it has a different meaning in this context.

Not doctored, one frame 313 has been withheld because it is so graphic. When Magruder sold the right to the film it was on the condition that frame not be made public.

Uh uh, there's a couple of earlier cuts.

Only by ignoring context, patchwork putting disparate verses together.

That would be a case of 'pot calls kettle black'. Nobody does more cut and pasting than infernalists. Matt 25:46, Matt 7:23, Dan 12:2, Rev 21:8 etc. There is no 'doctrine of hell' in the Bible, it's just cobbled together with the help of dodgy translations, and external references from pagan and Jewish oral traditions.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,576
6,063
EST
✟992,249.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
In the quote Robertson is not disputing the agricultural etymology of kolasin. He appears to be arguing that it has a different meaning in this context.
I'm going to make two responses to this post. Hows did Robertson translate "punishment" in his exegesis?
Matthew 25:46
Eternal punishment (kolasin aiōnion). The word kolasin comes from kolazō, to mutilate or prune. Hence those who cling to the larger hope use this phrase to mean age-long pruning that ultimately leads to salvation of the goats, as disciplinary rather than penal. There is such a distinction as Aristotle pointed out between mōria (vengeance) and kolasis. But the same adjective aiōnios is used with kolasin and zōēn. If by etymology we limit the scope of kolasin, we may likewise have only age-long zōēn. There is not the slightest indication in the words of Jesus here that the punishment is not coeval with the life. We can leave all this to the King himself who is the Judge. The difficulty to one’s mind about conditional chastisement is to think how a life of sin in hell can be changed into a life of love and obedience. The word aiōnios (from aiōn, age, aevum, aei) means either without beginning or without end or both. It comes as near to the idea of eternal as the Greek can put it in one word. It is a difficult idea to put into language. Sometimes we have “ages of ages” (aiōnes tōn aiōnōn).
Robertson Mark 3:29
Guilty of an eternal sin (enochos estin aiōniou hamartēmatos). ...Those who hope for a second probation hereafter may ponder carefully how a soul that eternally sins in such an environment can ever repent. That is eternal punishment.


 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,576
6,063
EST
✟992,249.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Uh uh, there's a couple of earlier cuts.
Prove it?
That would be a case of 'pot calls kettle black'. Nobody does more cut and pasting than infernalists. Matt 25:46, Matt 7:23, Dan 12:2, Rev 21:8 etc. There is no 'doctrine of hell' in the Bible, it's just cobbled together with the help of dodgy translations, and external references from pagan and Jewish oral traditions.
Total UR rubbish used to con the unsuspecting! I quote from the best sources available. Unlike UR-ites who e.g. rely on the 100+ year old writings of self taught "scholars."
Another reminder. If I want to know if a translation of the OT is valid who/what should I consult? I consult the native Hebrew speaking scholars who translated the 1917 Jewish Publication Society OT.
If I want to know if a translation of the NT is valid who/what should I consult? I consult the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the Eastern Greek Orthodox NT.
What standard do UR-ites use? Anything/everything which supports their UR assumptions/presuppositions.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,576
6,063
EST
✟992,249.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Here is the radical "All/pas" from the 2000 edition of Bauer, Danker, Arndt, Gingrich Greek lexicon.
πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν gen. παντός, πάσης, παντός (dat. pl. πᾶσι and πᾶσιν vary considerably in the mss.; s. W-S. §5, 28; cp. Rob. 219–21; on the use of the art. s. B-D-F §275) (Hom. +).[1]...
everything belonging, in kind, to the class designated by the noun, every kind of, all sorts of, adj. for the words παντοδαπός and παντοῖος, which are lacking in our lit.: πᾶσα νόσος καὶ πᾶσα μαλακία Mt 4:23. γέμουσιν πάσης ἀκαθαρσίας they are full of all kinds of uncleanness 23:27 (Ar. 15, 6). πᾶσα ἐξουσία 28:18. ἀπὸ παντὸς ἔθνους from every kind of nation Ac 2:5. Cp. 7:22; 13:10ab; Ro 1:18, 29. πᾶσα ἐπιθυμία (evil) desire of every kind 7:8. ἐν παντὶ λόγῳ καὶ πάσῃ γνώσει 1 Cor 1:5b. πᾶν ἁμάρτημα every kind of sin 6:18. Cp. 2 Cor 7:1; 9:8bc; 10:5ab; Eph 1:3, 8, 21a; 4:19; 5:3; Phil 1:9; 2 Th 2:17. πᾶν ἔργον ἀγαθόν Tit 1:16; 3:1. Cp. 2:14; Hb 13:21. πᾶσα δόσις, πᾶν δώρημα Js 1:17 (W-S. §20, 11b). Cp. vs. 21; 1 Pt 2:1ab; Rv 8:7 al.—B. 919. Schmidt, Syn. IV, 540–54, s. ἕκαστος and ὅλος. DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW. Sv.[2]
[1] Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 782). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
The 1957 edition of BDAG can be reviewed online at this link. The quoted BDAG text above is listed under 1B in the 1957 edition.
http://lareopage.free.fr/a&g/main.htm
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums