The Psychology of the Devil.

[ananda]

So what did he exactly claim his way to be? How can a sinner purify himself? What did he do to rid sinners of their sins? How were they washed away? How were they dealt with? Did he have the authority to forgive people of their sins? Did he take their sins upon himself and pay for them himself? Was he sinless himself? Even if someone could purify themselves, and become absolutely perfect, what about the sins they already committed in their lives? How are they put away? The first thing that needs to be dealt with in a person's life is their sin. What did he do about that? By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. He may have taught some fine things, but he gave no way to be justified before God at the judgment, and no way of salvation of the soul.
Jesus said the way was narrow that leadeth unto life.

Sin (offense against a deity) is not identified as the root problem in Buddhism. Instead, dukkha/suffering is identified as the root problem. The Buddha claimed to have purified himself from all suffering, thus achieving perfection. His Way to achieve this perfection was the Eightfold Path.

So Jesus had the authority to forgive sins, and He proved it by healing the sick of the palsy who couldn't walk. (And he healed many thousands of others at other times as well. I only mentioned this to show that Jesus has the authority to forgive sins.) Jesus was able to forgive sins, not only because He was the manifestation of God in the flesh, but also because He knew what He would do on the cross, taking our sins on Himself, so that when He died, our sins also died. And even if there were no record of His resurrection, I would still believe it, because He said that. Jesus always only told the truth. And He proved His words by His works. (But of course there is record of it, but it would take too long to post, and too long to read.) So there is no reason to believe that Jesus was a liar, and overwhelming reason to believe He spoke the truth. Jesus said that He was the Son of God, the Christ, the Messiah, and the Lord; and He gave us every reason to believe that it's true. He took away our sins on the cross, and vindicated Himself and everything He ever did and said by rising again from the dead. No one else has ever done that, and no one else ever could.

I can't say I've seen these things for myself.

Did Buddha have the power to lay down his life, and take it up again?

It is an irrelevant question, if the core issue is all about suffering.

 

[Dan Brooks]

Aint no devil The word is from Old German and simply means an enemy. Angels cant fall they are obedient to God only. The satanic lore abounds in people who wish to bypass responsibility and are looking for a scape-goat.

So you disagree with the Bible, and Jesus Himself, who said He saw Satan like lightning fall from Heaven?

 

[dlamberth]

So what did he exactly claim his way to be? How can a sinner purify himself? What did he do to rid sinners of their sins? How were they washed away? How were they dealt with? Did he have the authority to forgive people of their sins? Did he take their sins upon himself and pay for them himself? Was he sinless himself? Even if someone could purify themselves, and become absolutely perfect, what about the sins they already committed in their lives? How are they put away? The first thing that needs to be dealt with in a person's life is their sin. What did he do about that? By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. He may have taught some fine things, but he gave no way to be justified before God at the judgment, and no way of salvation of the soul.

It's not about sin and a Judgmental God that comes with that belief. It's about becoming a more human, Human Being.

 

[Dan Brooks]

Sin (offense against a deity) is not identified as the root problem in Buddhism. Instead, dukkha/suffering is identified as the root problem. The Buddha claimed to have purified himself from all suffering, thus achieving perfection. His Way to achieve this perfection was the Eightfold Path.


I can't say I've seen these things for myself.

It is an irrelevant question, if the core issue is all about suffering.

Suffering is a result, not a cause. The reason for suffering is sin. That's why it needs to be dealt with.
And even if one could achieve perfection through the Eightfold Path it wouldn't deal with the sins already committed. And Buddha gave no way for sins to be dealt with. He couldn't even deal with his own sins, much less anyone else's. And if the vanquishing of suffering was his goal, did he go about healing people of their sicknesses? casting tormenting demons out of them? make the lame to walk? making the blind see and the deaf hear? Did he raise anyone from the dead and therefore ease the suffering of those who grieved? Surely he would do these things if he wanted to eradicate suffering. But I know of no record of him having done such things. (Maybe you do?)
So why didn't he know that sin was the cause of suffering and deal with that? And what did he do to prove the truth of what he was saying. When people confronted him about his teachings, did he prove it by his works? Or did he just say it was true? What did he really do for anyone? And how did he prove himself? And is he alive today that we can speak to him? Wanting to end suffering is indeed noble, but Buddha is now dead. And if he died without his sins being taken away, then he died in his sins, and went to the bad destination. I know that's hard to hear, but no one can have everlasting life, however you want to define it, without having their sins taken away.

 

[Dan Brooks]

It's not about sin and a Judgmental God that comes with that belief. It's about becoming a more human, Human Being.

But human beings are sinful. How does becoming more human do us any good? We are already human, and that's our problem. What is the cause of all the problems in this world? Who is doing all these atrocities? Humans. Being human isn't the issue, sin is the issue. And it needs to be dealt with. There is no life without the remission of sins, and there is no remission of sins without the shedding of blood, and the blood that is shed has to be without sins, and only Jesus had sinless blood. So He is the only Savior of mankind, because only He can take away sins.

 

[Dan Brooks]

You could start with Revelation 1:1 which proves that your story about falling from heaven is a misconception. The KEY is that John says "things which must shortly come to pass" so it you are quoting your fallen angel theory, it means that it has not happened yet and also Revelation 4:1

And if you want to go by Revelation, what about this?
Revelation 20:1-3
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Who's that old serpent? The serpent from Genesis 3. So he has been here on earth from the beginning of mankind.

 

[Dan Brooks]

Jesus dealt with every dukkha there is. Sickness, lameness, blindness, deafness, dumbness, demon possession, hunger, grieving, the devil, the world, sin, death, and hell. There is no dukkha that Jesus didn't conquer.

 

[ananda]

Suffering is a result, not a cause. The reason for suffering is sin. That's why it needs to be dealt with.
And even if one could achieve perfection through the Eightfold Path it wouldn't deal with the sins already committed. And Buddha gave no way for sins to be dealt with. He couldn't even deal with his own sins, much less anyone else's. And if the vanquishing of suffering was his goal, did he go about healing people of their sicknesses? casting tormenting demons out of them? make the lame to walk? making the blind see and the deaf hear? Did he raise anyone from the dead and therefore ease the suffering of those who grieved? Surely he would do these things if he wanted to eradicate suffering. But I know of no record of him having done such things. (Maybe you do?)
So why didn't he know that sin was the cause of suffering and deal with that? And what did he do to prove the truth of what he was saying. When people confronted him about his teachings, did he prove it by his works? Or did he just say it was true? What did he really do for anyone? And how did he prove himself? And is he alive today that we can speak to him? Wanting to end suffering is indeed noble, but Buddha is now dead. And if he died without his sins being taken away, then he died in his sins, and went to the bad destination. I know that's hard to hear, but no one can have everlasting life, however you want to define it, without having their sins taken away.

There is no need to deal with errors previously committed, except to learn from them to not do them again, and then to move on.

He resolved his own suffering, and offered that same gift to all through his Teachings. That is the highest form of help anyone could offer anyone else.

The only proof needed for his truth is our own verification of the truths he taught, through our own practice. His Teachings are described in this way: "The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One, to be seen here & now, timeless, inviting verification, pertinent, to be realized by the wise for themselves."

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I know that's hard to hear, but no one can have everlasting life, however you want to define it, without having their sins taken away.

Amen. It is indeed GREAT NEWS! (to those who hear) >
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Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have ...
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[Dan Brooks]

There is no need to deal with errors previously committed, except to learn from them to not do them again, and then to move on.

He resolved his own suffering, and offered that same gift to all through his Teachings. That is the highest form of help anyone could offer anyone else.

The only proof needed for his truth is our own verification of the truths he taught, through our own practice. His Teachings are described in this way: "The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One, to be seen here & now, timeless, inviting verification, pertinent, to be realized by the wise for themselves."

There is most definitely a need to deal with errors previously committed. And besides that, even when someone does repent of their sins, they don't become sinless. If you know someone other than Jesus who is sinless, let me know.
And if teaching is the highest form of help, what about Jesus' teachings? He taught us much more than Buddha did. But He didn't just "teach" us how to resolve our suffering. He healed the sufferings of everyone He came in contact with. And not only that, He suffered FOR us, on the cross, enduring the punishment of sins He never committed, so that the ones who did commit them could have them remitted.
And Jesus did much more than just say, "Well try it for yourself, and you'll see that it's true." He went out of His way to prove He was telling the truth. It's strange to me that people will believe someone just because they say something, but Jesus, who actually proved everything He said, is not believed.

 

[ananda]

There is most definitely a need to deal with errors previously committed. And besides that, even when someone does repent of their sins, they don't become sinless. If you know someone other than Jesus who is sinless, let me know.
And if teaching is the highest form of help, what about Jesus' teachings? He taught us much more than Buddha did. But He didn't just "teach" us how to resolve our suffering. He healed the sufferings of everyone He came in contact with. And not only that, He suffered FOR us, on the cross, enduring the punishment of sins He never committed, so that the ones who did commit them could have them remitted.
And Jesus did much more than just say, "Well try it for yourself, and you'll see that it's true." He went out of His way to prove He was telling the truth. It's strange to me that people will believe someone just because they say something, but Jesus, who actually proved everything He said, is not believed.

How did Jesus prove what he allegedly did to you? I have not seen any such proof for myself.

By practicing the Buddha's Way, I know for myself in my own experience that it addresses suffering for myself.

 

[dlamberth]

But human beings are sinful. How does becoming more human do us any good? We are already human, and that's our problem. What is the cause of all the problems in this world? Who is doing all these atrocities? Humans. Being human isn't the issue, sin is the issue. And it needs to be dealt with. There is no life without the remission of sins, and there is no remission of sins without the shedding of blood, and the blood that is shed has to be without sins, and only Jesus had sinless blood. So He is the only Savior of mankind, because only He can take away sins.

God is the spark of the Human Soul. The spiritual lesson of every Human Being is to let that spark shine. Love, Compassion, Empathy and Service to those in need go a long way towards that end.

The images of sin and of a Judgmental God has done more Human on Human atrocities than most anything else out there. A continuing piece of that experience here in this thread is that we are hearing that those who do not hold to the "One True Way" beliefs are seen as enemies of God. The echo of those atrocities continue.

 

[dlamberth]

Jesus dealt with every dukkha there is. Sickness, lameness, blindness, deafness, dumbness, demon possession, hunger, grieving, the devil, the world, sin, death, and hell. There is no dukkha that Jesus didn't conquer.

Yet my Christian friends, every single one of them and I bet you as well, continue to experience dukkha. Your words when looking at actual life experiences do not match up.

 

[Dan Brooks]

How did Jesus prove what he allegedly did to you? I have not seen any such proof for myself.

By practicing the Buddha's Way, I know for myself in my own experience that it addresses suffering for myself.

So then you have reason to believe that Jesus was a liar? What would this reason be? If you don't see such proof in your own life, if that's what you mean, have you ever practiced what He taught? How would you know in your own life if Jesus is true if you never do what He says?
As for following Buddha's way, what is it meditation? I know meditation can reduce stress. This isn't some secret. The Bible talks about meditation also. It says to meditate on God, and on His word.

Joshua 1:8
This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
Psalm 1:2
But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psalm 63:5-7
5 My soul shall be satisfied as with marrow and fatness;
and my mouth shall praise thee with joyful lips:
6 when I remember thee upon my bed,
and meditate on thee in the night watches.
7 Because thou hast been my help,
therefore in the shadow of thy wings will I rejoice.
Psalm 77:12
I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.
Psalm 119:15
I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.
1 Timothy 4:15
Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

And other such Scriptures.

As for what Jesus did for me personally, He made me know the depths of my sins, and I became afraid of the consequences of them. Then He let me know what He did for me on the cross to eradicate those sins forever so that I would be forgiven of them. And when I really focused on what He did for me, I was overwhelmed and began weeping, and I asked Him why He would do that for me. I cried out loud asking Him that. And He spoke to my spirit and said, "Because I love you." And of course that made me cry even more.
I know that everything He said is true, not only because He is God manifest in the flesh, and can't lie, and proved everything He said by His works, (most especially His resurrection from the dead, which no one else has ever done), but because He did it personally for me, and spoke to me Himself. He has spoken to me many times since then also. I actually know Him, and He actually knows me. And I know with my whole heart that I will be with Him forever. And it has nothing to do with me deserving it, but because of what He did for me, because He loves me.
Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
That isn't just some writing from 2,000 years ago, it's the absolute truth, which actually happened. He did it for me, personally. I love Him because He loved me first.
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I know that God loves me, and I know that He gave his Son for me, and He caused me to believe on Him, and I know I won't perish, but I will have everlasting life. He told me Himself.

 

[Dan Brooks]

Yet my Christian friends, every single one of them and I bet you as well, continue to experience dukkha. Your words when looking at actual life experiences do not match up.

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Yes there is suffering in this world. Jesus said there would be. But by trusting Him in our suffering, we have peace through it, and it no longer a vexation to us. And since He overcame the world, so have we, not that we don't still suffer the consequences of our past sins, and the effects of others' sins. But because of what Jesus did for us, we willingly suffer for Him. It's nothing compared to what He suffered for us.
Hebrews 12
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: 36 and others had trial of cruelmockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: 37 they were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; 38 (of whom the world was not worthy), they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Revelation 12:10-12
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

We still live in this corrupted world. But we have a promise of a world without suffering.
Romans 8:18
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Revelation 21
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Whatever I might suffer here is nothing compared to what Jesus suffered for me, and it's nothing compared to the joy and life He has prepared for me.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

You could start with Revelation 1:1 which proves that your story about falling from heaven is a misconception. The KEY is that John says "things which must shortly come to pass" so it you are quoting your fallen angel theory, it means that it has not happened yet and also Revelation 4:1

Jesus said he was there inHeaven and witnessed Satan cast out...was God in the flesh lying?

 

[he-man]

Jesus said he was there inHeaven and witnessed Satan cast out...was God in the flesh lying?

Jesus was not in heaven until after his resurrection so you theory is null and void

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus was not in heaven until after his resurrection so you theory is null and void

Jesus was in heaven for eternity, with ABBA YHWH always in the past, uncreated, so to speak ("in heaven" and other ideas are not understandable by the natural man) ....

 

[he-man]

And if you want to go by Revelation, what about this?
Revelation 20:1-3
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Who's that old serpent? The serpent from Genesis 3. So he has been here on earth from the beginning of mankind.

Indeed and that is after the events John spoke about so your statement is null and void. Beside Jesus already destroyed that by dying and destroyed the works of your fallen angel.

 

[he-man]

Jesus was in heaven for eternity, with ABBA YHWH always in the past, uncreated, so to speak ("in heaven" and other ideas are not understandable by the natural man) ....

See my hands and feet, a Spirit has not flesh and bones as you see me have.