The 'Prosperity Gospel'

A Gerbil

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It is my belief that Christianity is antithetical to 'Prosperity Theology'. Jesus was born in a stable, raised by a carpenter and never acquired any sort of possessions at all. In fact He encouraged a man to give his possessions to the poor (Matthew 19:21) and of course there's the verse about the camel passing through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24), and many more similar verses.

Unfortunately the fastest growing church in my city is one that constantly preaches about money, and how one needs to sow, by giving to the church, in order to reap the financial rewards. Televangelists appear to almost exclusively preach the 'prosperity gospel'.

What are your thoughts, and how would you answer somebody who believed in the 'prosperity gospel'?
 

SkyWriting

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It is my belief that Christianity is antithetical to 'Prosperity Theology'. Jesus was born in a stable, raised by a carpenter and never acquired any sort of possessions at all. In fact He encouraged a man to give his possessions to the poor (Matthew 19:21) and of course there's the verse about the camel passing through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24), and many more similar verses.

Unfortunately the fastest growing church in my city is one that constantly preaches about money, and how one needs to sow, by giving to the church, in order to reap the financial rewards. Televangelists appear to almost exclusively preach the 'prosperity gospel'.

What are your thoughts, and how would you answer somebody who believed in the 'prosperity gospel'?
Faith is critical to success. You can prove them wrong by being useful to the fewest people possible, but what fun is that?
 
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A Gerbil

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Faith is critical to success. You can prove them wrong by not being useful to humanity, but what fun is that?

I'm not sure I am understanding you correctly. Are you suggesting that somebody who is not financially prosperous is 'not useful to humanity'? Surely a paramedic is more 'useful to humanity' that a Wall Street broker, but the latter is likely to earn more.

I would say a fundamental aspect of Christianity is about not concerned too much with worldly affairs and materialism, and instead storing up treasure in heaven.
 
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Halbhh

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It is my belief that Christianity is antithetical to 'Prosperity Theology'. Jesus was born in a stable, raised by a carpenter and never acquired any sort of possessions at all. In fact He encouraged a man to give his possessions to the poor (Matthew 19:21) and of course there's the verse about the camel passing through the eye of a needle (Matthew 19:24), and many more similar verses.

Unfortunately the fastest growing church in my city is one that constantly preaches about money, and how one needs to sow, by giving to the church, in order to reap the financial rewards. Televangelists appear to almost exclusively preach the 'prosperity gospel'.

What are your thoughts, and how would you answer somebody who believed in the 'prosperity gospel'?

Consider: many pulled at by the pursuit of wealth -- what are they really wanting?

Security.

I think the most key teaching that would help an individual being pulled at by that kind of distortion is to hear the better truth, the more wonderful truth together with the truth you just pointed out about how hard it is for a rich man to enter heaven (another helpful story of that kind is that of Lazarus and the rich man).

The better truth that for me helps defeat the mere prosperity pursuit is the wonderful things we can have instead --

19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

22“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Do Not Worry

25“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?


28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.


3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

---------


25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

27“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

---------
Gospel of Matthew, NIV translations.

 
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A Gerbil

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Consider: many pulled at by the pursuit of wealth -- what are they really wanting?

Security.

I think the most key teaching that would help an individual being pulled at by that kind of distortion is to hear the better truth, the more wonderful truth together with the truth you just pointed out about how hard it is for a rich man to enter heaven (another helpful story of that kind is that of Lazarus and the rich man).

The better truth that for me helps defeat the mere prosperity pursuit is the wonderful things we can have instead --

19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

22“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Do Not Worry

25“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?


28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.


3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

---------


25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

27“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

---------
Gospel of Matthew, NIV translations.

Thank you very much for that. It's greatly appreciated.
 
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RaymondG

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What are your thoughts, and how would you answer somebody who believed in the 'prosperity gospel'?

I would tell them, yes you are right.....God will give you the desires of your heart and tells you to ask and receive that your Joy may be full.

But also, it profits you nothing to gain the whole world and lose your soul......So seek first the Kingdom of heaven and it's righteousness and allow everything else to be added.....
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Unfortunately the fastest growing church in my city is one that constantly preaches about money


, and how one needs to sow, by giving to the church, in order to reap the financial rewards. Televangelists appear to almost exclusively preach the 'prosperity gospel'.

What are your thoughts, and how would you answer somebody who believed in the 'prosperity gospel'?

True, sad because that ain't the gospel.
M-Bob
 
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RaymondG

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I would say a fundamental aspect of Christianity is about not concerned too much with worldly affairs and materialism, and instead storing up treasure in heaven.
This is true......Yet one who is not concern about worldly affairs and materials is also not affected by or concerned at all about others who are concerned about the world or materials.

You will know that you are free from materialism when you do not see or care about the materials others collect.
 
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Halbhh

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I would tell them, yes you are right.....God will give you the desires of your heart and tells you to ask and receive that your Joy may be full.

But also, it profits you nothing to gain the whole world and lose your soul......So seek first the Kingdom of heaven and it's righteousness and allow everything else to be added.....
A crucial message some (or many) will need, the help they will need, is to help them hear His words that we cannot serve 2 masters, since it's Life or Death in the end on this --

19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

22“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.


(and then the wonderful continuation)
 
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RaymondG

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A crucial message some (or many) will need, the help they will need, is to help them hear His words that we cannot serve 2 masters, since it's Life or Death in the end on this --

19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

22“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.


(and then the wonderful continuation)
Thy will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven. If you have treasures in Heaven....you will eventually appear to have them on earth as well...... To the religious, you will be serving mammon....But you will know where you help cometh from.....and your cup will continue to run over..... For what you have done in secret, will be rewarded openly...... And Man will look at the outward appearances....and use scriptures to judge you.....But God knoweth the heart.....so you will still have a peace that no one understands.......
 
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SkyWriting

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I'm not sure I am understanding you correctly. Are you suggesting that somebody who is not financially prosperous is 'not useful to humanity'? Surely a paramedic is more 'useful to humanity' that a Wall Street broker, but the latter is likely to earn more.

I would say a fundamental aspect of Christianity is about not concerned too much with worldly affairs and materialism, and instead storing up treasure in heaven.

By helping others. You are getting it.
The bigger the problem you solve the better for everyone.
 
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SkyWriting

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I'm not sure I am understanding you correctly. Are you suggesting that somebody who is not financially prosperous is 'not useful to humanity'?

They should be, and they could be if we see to it that they are.
But if we don't work at it, then they don't get the chance.
 
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ajcarey

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I might emphasize one or more of the following:
1) God is not a slave to man's desires nor happiness. We cannot manipulate God to obtain what we want; and God could not and would not make promises so that we could.
2) God wants to save us from our sins, make us holy to Him, and redeem us to Himself- and this necessitates that we suffer for the sake of truth and that we trust ourselves to Him in doing well before him even when there is no immediate or short-term reward for doing so placed before us- or even any definite time-table for a reward on earth or even the absolute guarantee of such at all (besides God being with us when we are faithful).
3) Look at ALL of the examples of the righteous people in the Bible. How many were not materially prosperous? And even the ones that were tended to have their prosperity interrupted, diminished, and/or they had other major problems which God did not immediately solve for them before and/or during their prosperity.
4) The health gospel and the wealth gospel are inherently tied together- you cannot believe in one without believing in the other, though many do believe in one and not the other.
5) The ultimate hope of obeying the gospel is an eternal reward in an eternal city not corrupted by sin, and dwelling with God forever in truth and righteousness. No man can serve two masters; we either ultimately seek this or we ultimately seek something else- and that something else is necessarily an idol, whether it be wealth, health, or whatever it is. God could not and would not make promises whereby one could reconcile what we ought to seek with something else-that would simply be humanism and a cross-less gospel- we cannot be promised the best of both worlds; and if we were there would never be a real conflict between gaining the world and not losing your own soul.
6) I think these verses especially expose any and all prosperity gospel teachers for being the dangerous deceivers that they actually are.
Philippians 3:14-21: "14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. 17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. 18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

1 Timothy 6:3-12: "3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses."
 
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timothyu

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They should be, and they could be if we see to it that they are.
But if we don't work at it, then they don't get the chance.
Gonna rush out and get me some of those end of days food survival kits from Jim Bakker and hand them out.
 
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Halbhh

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Thy will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven. If you have treasures in Heaven....you will eventually appear to have them on earth as well...... To the religious, you will be serving mammon....But you will know where you help cometh from.....and your cup will continue to run over..... For what you have done in secret, will be rewarded openly...... And Man will look at the outward appearances....and use scriptures to judge you.....But God knoweth the heart.....so you will still have a peace that no one understands.......
Well, we can just look to all of the words of Christ and trust Him, alone, the only one who can judge anyone rightly. A wonderful help also is the parable He told us of the widow's 2 pennies -- what she had she devoted all. This was before she had heard the new Gospel we can surmise. From Christ we can learn that if one used the 2 pennies to help another in need of charity that would have been equally good as I understand, or if one buys bread with 1 penny and saves the other penny for bread for another day and then eats and then uses their refreshed energy to go and do action to help another in need. There are many ways to help others, not just a couple. We now have so many ways to devote all. It's not what we have at the moment, but instead it's what master we are serving with what we have. He will indeed bless us with many things, such as energy, health, money, opportunities. What will we do with the talents we are given? The parable of the talents is good also for us.
 
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timothyu

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It's not what we have at the moment, but instead it's what master we are serving with what we have.
I knew of a fellow once who took a business opportunity offered by another. As a result he prospered and sunk all the money into a charity he created. The one who offered the opportunity took his share and sunk it into himself. Two different motives. He then told others of how they too could prosper and do as they wanted with their share in order to further fill his own coffers which befitted only self. One way is the path to the Kingdom, the other is our only reward.
 
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Halbhh

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I knew of a fellow once who took a business opportunity offered by another. As a result he prospered and sunk all the money into a charity he created. The one who offered the opportunity took his share and sunk it into himself. Two different motives. He then told others of how they too could prosper and do as they wanted with their share in order to further fill his own coffers which befitted only self. One way is the path to the Kingdom, the other is our only reward.
Yes, that's helpfully shown in the story of Lazarus and the rich man: the rich man that ignored the needy one at his gate had a good life here and now....but not later.
 
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RaymondG

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Well, we can just look to all of the words of Christ and trust Him, alone, the only one who can judge anyone rightly. A wonderful help also is the parable He told us of the widow's 2 pennies -- what she had she devoted all. This was before she had heard the new Gospel we can surmise. From Christ we can learn that if one used the 2 pennies to help another in need of charity that would have been equally good as I understand, or if one buys bread with 1 penny and saves the other penny for bread for another day and then eats and then uses their refreshed energy to go and do action to help another in need. There are many ways to help others, not just a couple. We now have so many ways to devote all. It's not what we have at the moment, but instead it's what master we are serving with what we have. He will indeed bless us with many things, such as energy, health, money, opportunities. What will we do with the talents we are given? The parable of the talents is good also for us.
I view the poor and rich materially the same.....one is no better than the other. Yet I would rather be rich in the spirit, than rich materially......I would also rather be poor in spirit, than poor materially. But to each their own.

I dare not give a million dollar to one who desire to be materially poor, one whose religious status is predicated on the money they refuse to make and retain. I , likewise would not seek to take away funds from those who desire to be rich....whose self worth and value is determines by the amount of numbers that are in bank accounts and cars in the garage.

These two situations are the same....worth and importance determined by material possessions.

I say forget about it all....let every man have the desires of their heart, whatever it may be......and when they are ready for it......come and see the Man who can tell them all about themselves.....without a need to give up or make money to do so.....
 
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RaymondG

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I knew of a fellow once who took a business opportunity offered by another. As a result he prospered and sunk all the money into a charity he created. The one who offered the opportunity took his share and sunk it into himself. Two different motives. He then told others of how they too could prosper and do as they wanted with their share in order to further fill his own coffers which befitted only self. One way is the path to the Kingdom, the other is our only reward.
It is well known that taking your wealth and putting it in a charity that you own, is a good way to keep control of your own money and minimize taxation.....while still appearing to be charitable.

It is unwise to judge any act......especially when we only have appearances to judge by.
 
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