The Prophet Elijah returning is through John the Baptist?

Neostarwcc

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So a few things. One I just got educated on the Jewish Prophecy that says that Elijah is going to return. Apparently Christ says that John the Baptist was the fulfillment of that prophecy. But my question is though that if John the Baptist was the fulfillment of that prophecy than why did he say that he wasn't Elijah before the Romans killed him? I mean the Jews raise a really good point and didn't God say that the prophet Elijah would come as himself and not as John the Baptist? I'm confused.
 

Jonaitis

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John the Baptist did not lie, he was not Elijah. Rather he came "in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared" (Luke 1:17).

The Jews miss the point of Malachi 4:5-6. The one who is suppose to come in the spirit and power of Elijah, come doing what Elijah did: restore the hearts of the people to the Lord. It isn't that Elijah himself is suppose to come. This type of language is used in other places in Scripture to signify the representation of an office. For an example, in prophetical passages regarding the Messiah, he is often called "David." Is David suppose to really come back and reign over the house of Israel? No. David represents the throne.
 
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Residential Bob

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The last Old Testament prophecy finds fulfillment after more than 400 years. We read in 2 Kings 2 that God takes Elijah directly to heaven in Elisha’s presence. We read later that Elijah will return before the Lord exacts judgment on the earth:

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction. (Mal 4:5-6)​

Many believers still wait for Elijah’s return, though the Gospels say that he has already returned.

And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things. But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist. (Mt 17:10-13)​

Earlier, Jesus told a crowd the same thing—that John the Baptist is Elijah; they needed only to accept it (Mt 11:13-15). But such a concept was difficult to comprehend, especially when John the Baptist denied his kinship to Elijah (Jn 1:21), for Elijah and John were two different men, each born of two different sets of parents. John the Baptist thought not as the priests and Levites thought, that Elijah would return in the flesh, for Elijah was not literally John the Baptist. “No,” therefore John answered. He was not the Elijah they expected. The reality was that Elijah was instead manifest in John the Baptist. Corroborating Jesus’ statement was John’s own father, Zechariah, who heard from an angel that his son will go before God in the “spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared” (Lk 1:17). In John the Baptist lived the spirit and power of Elijah.
 
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Pethesedzao

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So a few things. One I just got educated on the Jewish Prophecy that says that Elijah is going to return. Apparently Christ says that John the Baptist was the fulfillment of that prophecy. But my question is though that if John the Baptist was the fulfillment of that prophecy than why did he say that he wasn't Elijah before the Romans killed him? I mean the Jews raise a really good point and didn't God say that the prophet Elijah would come as himself and not as John the Baptist? I'm confused.
Elijah will return but I won't be here when he does.
 
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Residential Bob

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No, he will be back during the Tribulation period
"But I tell you that Elijah has already come."

~ Jesus

If you wish not to believe Jesus, that's your prerogative.
 
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Neostarwcc

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John the Baptist did not lie, he was not Elijah. Rather he came "in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared" (Luke 1:17).

The Jews miss the point of Malachi 4:5-6. The one who is suppose to come in the spirit and power of Elijah, come doing what Elijah did: restore the hearts of the people to the Lord. It isn't that Elijah himself is suppose to come. This type of language is used in other places in Scripture to signify the representation of an office. For an example, in prophetical passages regarding the Messiah, he is often called "David." Is David suppose to really come back and reign over the house of Israel? No. David represents the throne.

I guess it's not just the Jews that "miss the point" I guess I miss the point as well because didn't God say in Malachi 4:5-6 that Elijah would come back and not a manifestation of Elijah? I'm not saying that Jesus isn't the Messiah or that I don't believe Jesus's words I'm just deeply confused by them. I mean some people say that he will come back during the Tribulation period (Like Pethesedzao) and I believed that for a while but you can't deny what Christ said in the gospels either that Elijah was manifest in John the Baptist and was a fulfillment of the prophecy. But I just cannot comprehend how John the Baptist was a fulfillment of that prophecy.
 
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Residential Bob

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I guess it's not just the Jews that "miss the point" I guess I miss the point as well because didn't God say in Malachi 4:5-6 that Elijah would come back and not a manifestation of Elijah? I'm not saying that Jesus isn't the Messiah or that I don't believe Jesus's words I'm just deeply confused by them. I mean some people say that he will come back during the Tribulation period (Like Pethesedzao) and I believed that for a while but you can't deny what Christ said in the gospels either that Elijah was manifest in John the Baptist and was a fulfillment of the prophecy. But I just cannot comprehend how John the Baptist was a fulfillment of that prophecy.
Find a passage that says Elijah's return would be corporeal, that he would return in the flesh.
 
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Jonaitis

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I guess it's not just the Jews that "miss the point" I guess I miss the point as well because didn't God say in Malachi 4:5-6 that Elijah would come back and not a manifestation of Elijah? I'm not saying that Jesus isn't the Messiah or that I don't believe Jesus's words I'm just deeply confused by them. I mean some people say that he will come back during the Tribulation period (Like Pethesedzao) and I believed that for a while but you can't deny what Christ said in the gospels either that Elijah was manifest in John the Baptist and was a fulfillment of the prophecy. But I just cannot comprehend how John the Baptist was a fulfillment of that prophecy.

Check this out:

"And it shall come to pass in that day, declares the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off your neck, and I will burst your bonds, and foreigners shall no more make a servant of him. But they shall serve the Lord their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them. - Jeremiah 30:8-9

If we took this at its surface reading, then David is going to be raised after Jeremiah the prophet is dead?

"I will rescue my flock; they shall no longer be a prey. And I will judge between sheep and sheep. And I will set up over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he shall feed them: he shall feed them and be their shepherd. And I, the Lord, will be their God, and my servant David shall be prince among them. I am the Lord; I have spoken." - Ezekiel 34:22-24

David refers to the throne, and in many places Christ.

We should understand that Malachi's prophecy isn't speaking of the actual person, but the office and work of Elijah. John the Baptist fulfills this role.
 
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Neostarwcc

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Find a passage that says Elijah's return would be corporeal, that he would return in the flesh.

See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.
He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”

Sounds pretty straightforward to me. "I will send the prophet Elijah to you." not "I will send a manifestation of the Prophet Elijah to you". Especially when Elijah was taken to heaven and was like... the only person who never died or had to experience death. So you would think and take God at his word that the prophet Elijah is coming not a manifestation of him in John the Baptist.


I mean I'm obviously missing something. But, It's highly confusing.
 
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Neostarwcc

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Check this out:

"And it shall come to pass in that day, declares the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off your neck, and I will burst your bonds, and foreigners shall no more make a servant of him. But they shall serve the Lord their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them. - Jeremiah 30:8-9

If we took this at its surface reading, then David is going to be raised after Jeremiah the prophet is dead?

"I will rescue my flock; they shall no longer be a prey. And I will judge between sheep and sheep. And I will set up over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he shall feed them: he shall feed them and be their shepherd. And I, the Lord, will be their God, and my servant David shall be prince among them. I am the Lord; I have spoken." - Ezekiel 34:22-24

David refers to the throne, and in many places Christ.

We should understand that Malachi's prophecy isn't speaking of the actual person, but the office and work of Elijah. John the Baptist fulfills this role.

That is weird. I have to admit. Okay so Malachi's prophecy was talking about the office and work of Elijah. But then why did John the Baptist say he wasn't Elijah? Instead of just saying something like "I fulfill Malachi's prophecy" or something like that? Instead of just being "Nope, I'm not Elijah". Idk it's just weird. I mean if John the Baptist knew he was fulfilling Malachi's prophecy... idk... unless he didn't know? I guess that's one way of looking at it to make it make sense. Only Jesus knew.
 
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Residential Bob

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See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.
He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”

Sounds pretty straightforward to me. "I will send the prophet Elijah to you." not "I will send a manifestation of the Prophet Elijah to you". Especially when Elijah was taken to heaven and was like... the only person who never died or had to experience death. So you would think and take God at his word that the prophet Elijah is coming not a manifestation of him in John the Baptist.


I mean I'm obviously missing something. But, It's highly confusing.
That is not a verse that says Elijah would return in the flesh. Just like the apostles, you do not recognize him.

Unlike the apostles, who ultimately did recognize that Elijah was in John the Baptist, you do not.
 
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Neostarwcc

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That is not a verse that says Elijah would return in the flesh. Just like the apostles, you do not recognize him.

Unlike the apostles, who ultimately did recognize that Elijah was in John the Baptist, you do not.

I think we've already established that I'm confused and don't understand Malachi's Prophecy. That's why I started this thread.
 
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Residential Bob

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Like Elijah, Jesus came again in power and spirit.

Mainstream Christianity gets hung up on the flesh, which is foolishness. Jesus himself said the flesh is useless, that life is in the spirit (John 6:63).

Ultimately the human being is spirit. This is the way he lives with the Father.
 
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Jonaitis

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That is weird. I have to admit. Okay so Malachi's prophecy was talking about the office and work of Elijah. But then why did John the Baptist say he wasn't Elijah? Instead of just saying something like "I fulfill Malachi's prophecy" or something like that? Instead of just being "Nope, I'm not Elijah". Idk it's just weird. I mean if John the Baptist knew he was fulfilling Malachi's prophecy... idk... unless he didn't know? I guess that's one way of looking at it to make it make sense. Only Jesus knew.

It makes more sense if you connect John's quoting of Isaiah with the religious crowd's understanding of Malachi. It is interesting that he doesn't pull up that particular quote, but instead picks a more obscure looking passage from Isaiah that speaks on the same kind of event: preparing the way for the Lord, making his paths straight. In Malachi, Elijah is suppose to be sent before the great and awesome day of the Lord. He knew what he was saying, and I think it was intended to hint at the other prophecy, since they both cross roads.

It is strange that he doesn't explain that he came in the spirit and power of Elijah. I admit that. But, he probably conveyed that through Isaiah's prophecy.
 
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Pethesedzao

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"But I tell you that Elijah has already come."

~ Jesus

If you wish not to believe Jesus, that's your prerogative.
Jesus was referring to the Old Testament appearance of Elijah. Remember that Elijah and Enoch did not die but were taken up to heaven alive...
 
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Residential Bob

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Jesus was referring to the Old Testament appearance of Elijah. Remember that Elijah and Enoch did not die but were taken up to heaven alive...
Not so. How assumptions plague the faith.

"Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist."
 
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Neostarwcc

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It makes more sense if you connect John's quoting of Isaiah with the religious crowd's understanding of Malachi. It is interesting that he doesn't pull up that particular quote, but instead picks a more obscure looking passage from Isaiah that speaks on the same kind of event: preparing the way for the Lord, making his paths straight. In Malachi, Elijah is suppose to be sent before the great and awesome day of the Lord. He knew what he was saying, and I think it was intended to hint at the other prophecy, since they both cross roads.

It is strange that he doesn't explain that he came in the spirit and power of Elijah. I admit that. But, he probably conveyed that through Isaiah's prophecy.

I see. Thanks for educating me. I mean its one of the main reasons the Jews reject Jesus. I guess I was just toying with the idea that they might be right. Then again Isaiah prophesied that the Jews would reject the messiah too and all of the other scriptures seem to fit in place. So Jesus IS the messiah and the Jews are just mistaken. As to John the Baptist he could have said it differently to not cause confusion but I think the main point he was trying to make was that he was not Elijah in the flesh. Doesn't it say in the New Testament somewhere though that Elijah is going to come in the flesh during the tribulation? I could have sworn I read it somewhere.
 
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