The problem of the Green River Formation

JohnClay

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A major reason I stopped being a young-earth creationist is because it seemed that the Green River formation looked liked it was millions of years old - at least not a few thousand years old.

Creationists disagree about whether it formed during or after the flood:

Difficulties with a Flood model for the Green River Formation
"...the data clearly indicate the GRF was deposited within lakes, after the Flood"

Answers in Genesis - Green River Formation Very Likely Did Not Form in a Postdiluvial Lake

An article about the GRF by an old-earth creationist:
Creationist Misuse of the Green River Formation

For YECs: do you think it was formed during the flood or after?
 

juvenissun

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A major reason I stopped being a young-earth creationist is because it seemed that the Green River formation looked liked it was millions of years old - at least not a few thousand years old.

Creationists disagree about whether it formed during or after the flood:

Difficulties with a Flood model for the Green River Formation
"...the data clearly indicate the GRF was deposited within lakes, after the Flood"

Answers in Genesis - Green River Formation Very Likely Did Not Form in a Postdiluvial Lake

An article about the GRF by an old-earth creationist:
Creationist Misuse of the Green River Formation

For YECs: do you think it was formed during the flood or after?

So, are you an old-earth creationist now? Or, are you simply a creationist? Or, you don't think you are ready to be a Christian yet?
You need to be a Christian first, then you can start to consider to be a creationist, then it would be meaningful for you to consider the models of young or old earth.

This sequence is important. Because the scope of a young-earth creationist is much wider than just geology. It is a faith problem, not just a science problem.
 
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juvenissun

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A major reason I stopped being a young-earth creationist is because it seemed that the Green River formation looked liked it was millions of years old - at least not a few thousand years old.

Creationists disagree about whether it formed during or after the flood:

Difficulties with a Flood model for the Green River Formation
"...the data clearly indicate the GRF was deposited within lakes, after the Flood"

Answers in Genesis - Green River Formation Very Likely Did Not Form in a Postdiluvial Lake

An article about the GRF by an old-earth creationist:
Creationist Misuse of the Green River Formation

For YECs: do you think it was formed during the flood or after?

Let assume the Green River Formation was a lake facies. How would this contradict to the Flood model? It could be deposited anytime in relative to the Flood, couldn't it?
 
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JohnClay

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So, are you an old-earth creationist now? Or, are you simply a creationist? Or, you don't think you are ready to be a Christian yet?
You need to be a Christian first, then you can start to consider to be a creationist, then it would be meaningful for you to consider the models of young or old earth.

This sequence is important. Because the scope of a young-earth creationist is much wider than just geology. It is a faith problem, not just a science problem.
I used to be a YEC but then I followed Ken Ham's reasoning that if you can't trust Genesis, how can you be sure about the rest? So then I became an atheist. Now I'm an agnostic.
 
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JohnClay

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Let assume the Green River Formation was a lake facies. How would this contradict to the Flood model? It could be deposited anytime in relative to the Flood, couldn't it?
YECs disagree about whether it was formed during the flood or afterwards. The OEC article says "Every feature of the Green River formation points to long periods of deposition" and talks about things like footprints in the layers. That doesn't make sense if the layers were laid down rapidly in a flood.
 
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juvenissun

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YECs disagree about whether it was formed during the flood or afterwards. The OEC article says "Every feature of the Green River formation points to long periods of deposition" and talks about things like footprints in the layers. That doesn't make sense if the layers were laid down rapidly in a flood.

The formation does not have to be deposited during the Flood. It could be done before or after as long as it was a big lake.

I think you are interested in YEC. If you looking at natural processes as we can see, a 6000-year old earth is a model hard to swallow. But if 20 million years is given, could it still be called a young earth?
 
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Jimmy D

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I used to be a YEC but then I followed Ken Ham's reasoning that if you can't trust Genesis, how can you be sure about the rest? So then I became an atheist. Now I'm an agnostic.

That’s a shame. I’m sure charlatans like Ken Ham do more harm than good to mainstream Christianity.
 
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Jimmy D

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I think you are interested in YEC. If you looking at natural processes as we can see, a 6000-year old earth is a model hard to swallow. But if 20 million years is given, could it still be called a young earth?

Why 20 million? Or is it just rhetorical?
 
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Speedwell

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So, are you an old-earth creationist now? Or, are you simply a creationist? Or, you don't think you are ready to be a Christian yet?
You need to be a Christian first, then you can start to consider to be a creationist, then it would be meaningful for you to consider the models of young or old earth.

This sequence is important. Because the scope of a young-earth creationist is much wider than just geology. It is a faith problem, not just a science problem.
Why is it necessary to be a Christian to be a creationist? What about other theists? Don't they get to believe that their God created the universe? What about Muslims and Jews, who also regard Genesis as a divinely inspired holy book? Some of them are YECs whether you like it or not.
 
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Speedwell

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I used to be a YEC but then I followed Ken Ham's reasoning that if you can't trust Genesis, how can you be sure about the rest? So then I became an atheist. Now I'm an agnostic.
That story is an example of why I so object to creationists. Creationists want to strip faith in Christ and their salvation in Him from those who won't go along with a literal interpretation of Genesis in any way they can.
The assertion that the truth of our salvation in the risen Christ depends on Genesis being 100% accurate literal history is a bald-faced lie and a degenerate corruption of Christian doctrine.
 
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pitabread

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You need to be a Christian first, then you can start to consider to be a creationist, then it would be meaningful for you to consider the models of young or old earth.

Whether the Earth is "young" or "old" is a question that is completely independent of religious belief. Unless of course one is required to reject an objective universe as part of said beliefs, which in turn makes the question of whether the Earth is young or old completely irrelevant.
 
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JohnClay

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The formation does not have to be deposited during the Flood. It could be done before or after as long as it was a big lake.
Not if you don't have millions of years.

I think you are interested in YEC. If you looking at natural processes as we can see, a 6000-year old earth is a model hard to swallow. But if 20 million years is given, could it still be called a young earth?
That would count as an old earth.
 
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A major reason I stopped being a young-earth creationist is because it seemed that the Green River formation looked liked it was millions of years old - at least not a few thousand years old.

Creationists disagree about whether it formed during or after the flood:

Difficulties with a Flood model for the Green River Formation
"...the data clearly indicate the GRF was deposited within lakes, after the Flood"

Answers in Genesis - Green River Formation Very Likely Did Not Form in a Postdiluvial Lake

An article about the GRF by an old-earth creationist:
Creationist Misuse of the Green River Formation

For YECs: do you think it was formed during the flood or after?

The unfortunate reality is that they are at odds over a single formation from the eocene. On earth, there are countless formations that pre and post date this formation that are equally and more challenging for them to explain.
 
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