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The prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by TheBear, Jan 28, 2002.

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  1. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    Knowing that the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are tied to terrorist cells throughout the world, how far would you go to get information out of them? Does scripture address such issues?

    John
     
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  2. solo66 man

    solo66 man Well-Known Member

    +2
    That is a decision to be made by our government.

    1 Peter 2

    13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,

    14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.

    As Christians we are to pray for our enemies.

    But if I were in the military and in charge of interrogations, I would not torture, but they would be incacerated in not very nice conditions until they spoke up.

    Pray that they receive the Gospel and are saved while they can.
     
  3. strathyboy

    strathyboy Active Member

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    I believe simply that the US should abide by the tenets set out in the Geneva Convention, which they signed and claim to cherish. It is a simple matter of going back on your word, which is what the US is doing right now.
     
  4. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
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    We are to love our enemies, to do good things for those who hatefully use us, to be kind to those who would harm us, according to the Bible.

    So how could we justify torture?

    Under what conditions would Jesus torture someone?
     
  5. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    strathyboy,

    I'm not sure the rules of the Geneva Convention apply here. These terrorist thugs operated outside of those rules. They are not military personel. They primarily target unarmed civilians. They are considered detainees, not POW's.

    John
     
  6. strathyboy

    strathyboy Active Member

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    The US is by its own admission "at war with terrorism", and thus any terrorists captured would be prisoners of said war with terrorism, and thus are (or should be) POW's. And simply calling them detainees does not change what they really are. The Korean War was labelled a "police action", but we all know it was a war.
    Regardless, the US is involved in a military action in Afghanistan, and anyone taken captive in this action should be considered a prisoner of war.
     
  7. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    Tell that to the U.S. State Department and the Department of Defense, and for that matter, the President of the United States. They all classify the prisoners as detainees, not prisoners of war. Therefore, the rules of the Geneva Convention hardly apply.

    John
     
  8. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    By the way, the U.S. has long been involved in the 'War on Drugs' and the 'War on Poverty'. Does the Geneva Convention apply here as well?

    John
     
  9. strathyboy

    strathyboy Active Member

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    Yes, that's right. That's how the US can justify ignoring the Geneva Convention, since they are "detainees" and not POW's. They needed a way to interrogate/detain/potentially torture/whatever those captured during the "war on terrorism", and historically the US is excellent at finding ways to get around international agreements.
     
  10. strathyboy

    strathyboy Active Member

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    "By the way, the U.S. has long been involved in the 'War on Drugs' and the 'War on Poverty'. Does the Geneva Convention apply here as well? "

    Both of those are primarily internal policies, so I hardly think it likely that the US will hold it's own citizens as POW's.
    In any case, the US has engaged in a military action in Afghanistan, and the "detainees" in Guantanamo were taken in this military action, which is significantly different than the "war" on poverty or drugs.
     
  11. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    I'm done with you. You seem to be one of those leftists who makes all kinds of excuses for criminals. It is clear you don't have a clue about what you are talking about. You come up with all kinds of conspiracy theories against the government. If you want to continue conversation with me about this, talk facts and details, not inuendo and broad brushed, sweeping accusations.

    John
     
  12. strathyboy

    strathyboy Active Member

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    I think that the "my country right or wrong" attitude of Americans is showing through again. Virtually every nation on earth has begun to question the actions of the US in Guantanamo Bay, so my opinions are hardly unique. You didn't argue any of my points, and presented no facts yourself to defend your point of view. How does this constitute a reasonable argument in your favour? I have no squabble with you personally, so please don't turn this into a personal matter by attacking me.
     
  13. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    OK my friend,

    I would like you to cite me chapter and section of the Geneva Convention where it states that this particular situation qualifies under the rules of such.

    Chapter and section, please.

    And, by the way, in our 'War on Drugs', the military is used in the jungles of South America. :eek:

    John
     
  14. marmaladePRO

    marmaladePRO Active Member

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    "Virtually every nation on earth has begun to question the actions of the US " i don't think that thought is anything new, or anymore prevalent than it was 10 years ago... it's a state that i imagine the US will have to deal with for as long as their government IS so dominant (in a good way, happy neigbor ;) )
    And for as much as our government in Canada might not like the prisoner issue, we ain't nearly suited for offering any options. Even our defense minister acknowledged that ALL prisoners or detainee's WILL and HAVE been handed over to the US troops who are leading the action :)
     
  15. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    Thanks marmaladePRO,

    I knew there were some Canadians with some brains. :D (kind banter....that's all)

    But alas, we live in a society where the mere mention of alleged autrocities, automaticaly becomes the 'truth' until proven otherwise. :(

    John
     
  16. marmaladePRO

    marmaladePRO Active Member

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    we also live in a society that intrinsicly loves the david and goliath complex... little defeats big, and the US is big, so it is very very pervasive and easy to root for the other guy, in almost every situation... :(
     
  17. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    Hey, and I'll be the first to point out where I think our policies have gone awry. So there is none of this, "right or wrong" attitude with me. But, it looks like that just happened to be a convienient retort. Another broad-brushed accusation. :(

    John
     
  18. marmaladePRO

    marmaladePRO Active Member

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    i think if i were a paint brush, i wouldn't want to ever be a broad-brush because they get such a bad rap :D
    i wonder if strathy is looking up the geneva convention, because it never ceases to amaze me what i can learn on this forum over and beyond the obvious! :)
     
  19. strathyboy

    strathyboy Active Member

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    Alright, I've been reading over the Geneva Convention relating to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, of which both the United States and Afghanistan are signatories. Take a look here for the full text: http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

    1. The Convention is applicable to the conflict, since "the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties, even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them. "

    2. Those in Guantanamo Bay are undoubtedly POW's under the definition given in Part 1, Article 4. It is very long, so I won't paste it here. For this reason alone, the US is technically in violation of the Convention, but simply calling them something different is hardly cause for alarm.

    3. The provisions that have to be made for POW's are given in Part 1, Article 3. Thus the debate now becomes, has the US done what is required under this Article for those detained in Guantanamo Bay. I do not know, since I haven't been there. But the simple fact that the "detainees" are being detained in Cuba and are not given POW status is extremely suspicious.
     
  20. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    Problem is "Armed Forces" does not apply to terrorists.

    "The following shall likewise be treated as prisoners of war under the present Convention:

    1. Persons belonging, or having belonged, to the armed forces of the occupied country, if the occupying Power considers it necessary by reason of such allegiance to intern them, even though it has originally liberated them while hostilities were going on outside the territory it occupies, in particular where such persons have made an unsuccessful attempt to rejoin the armed forces to which they belong and which are engaged in combat, or where they fail to comply with a summons made to them with a view to internment."

    Nowhere in here are terrorists afforded the same 'rights'.


    Keep trying, strathyboy.


    John
     
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