"The Present Truth"

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,312
56
Boyertown, PA.
✟768,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I was watching a video about Seventh Day Adventism, and I ran across this term that I hadn't heard in decades. Actually, the first and last place I heard it was in the Charismatic movement. In the 90s when I was coming into the movement when I entered graduate school, is where I ran into the term. I read a book called "Prophets and the Prophetic Movement, by Bill Hamon. In that work, Bill Hamon quotes from an earlier work in the 1970s called "The Eternal Church" which was his take on both Church History and Ecclesiology coming from the earlier "Later Day Rain" movement of Pentecostalism.

In his book Hamon advocates a kind of spiritual Evolutionary view of Church History starting with Luther in the Reformation, where God through a series of movements brings back or properly establishes doctrines "That were lost to the Church". This process of restoration begins in traditional Protestantism and moves into various areas of American Revivalism culminating in the latest Charismatic movements. Below is a short video from the horse's mouth so to speak.



Hamon states: “The restitution/restoration of the Church started in AD 1517 after more than a thousand years of the Church’s apostate condition, called the Dark Ages. On that date came ‘The Great Restoration of the Church,’ when the Protestant Movement was birthed. Beginning with that date there have been five major restorational movements: The Protestant, Holiness, Pentecostal, Charismatic, and Prophetic Movements.” (B.Hamon, “Apostles and Prophets” p.104) He also adds the Latter Rain Movement, Faith Movement (meaning the Word of Faith teaching popularized by Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland), and the Apostolic Movement (his of course).” (ibid. p.107)



In his book or books Ham tends to use the term "Present Truth" to describe the pinnacle of theological development or doctrinal understanding that was brought back to the Church via the latest Restoration movement.



(OK I will continue on this later depending on level of interest.... For those who know me probably know that I'm going to disagree with this kind of notion / paradigm / trope. :) I guess a hint of that is that this posted in the Controversial Theologies board rather than some safe space board.)
 
Last edited:

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
10,100
4,251
USA
✟478,113.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I was watching a video about Seventh Day Adventism, and I ran across this term that I hadn't heard in decades. Actually, the first and last place I heard it was in the Charismatic movement. In the 90s when I was coming into the movement when I entered graduate school, is where I ran into the term. I read a book called "Prophets and the Prophetic Movement, by Bill Hamon. In that work, Bill Hamon quotes from an earlier work in the 1970s called "The Eternal Church" which was his take on both Church History and Ecclesiology coming from the earlier "Later Day Rain" movement of Pentecostalism.

In his book Hamon advocates a kind of spiritual Evolutionary view of Church History starting with Luther in the Reformation, where God through a series of movements brings back or properly establishes doctrines "That were lost to the Church". This process of restoration begins in traditional Protestantism and moves into various areas of American Revivalism culminating in the latest Charismatic movements. Below is a short video from the horse's mouth so to speak.



Hamon states: “The restitution/restoration of the Church started in AD 1517 after more than a thousand years of the Church’s apostate condition, called the Dark Ages. On that date came ‘The Great Restoration of the Church,’ when the Protestant Movement was birthed. Beginning with that date there have been five major restorational movements: The Protestant, Holiness, Pentecostal, Charismatic, and Prophetic Movements.” (B.Hamon, “Apostles and Prophets” p.104) He also adds the Latter Rain Movement, Faith Movement (meaning the Word of Faith teaching popularized by Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland), and the Apostolic Movement (his of course).” (ibid. p.107)



In his book or books Ham tends to use the term "Present Truth" to describe the pinnacle of theological development or doctrinal understanding that was brought back to the Church via the latest Restoration movement.



(OK I will continue on this later depending on level of interest.... For those who know me probably know that I'm going to disagree with this kind of notion / paradigm / trope. :) I guess a hint of that is that this posted in the Controversial Theologies board rather than some safe space board.)
I don't know who Bill Harmon is but I do not believe he is a Seventh-day Adventist. There are lots of people who state things about Seventh-day Adventists, doesn't necessarily mean they are true. It's always best to go directly to the denominations Official Website if you really want to understand what that denomination teaches.

I posted ours for convenience.

What do Seventh Day Adventists Really Believe? - Adventist.org
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,312
56
Boyertown, PA.
✟768,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Interesting that the Adventist idiom of this seems pretty specific even though that kind of terminology seems to be true of other Movements of the 1800s,. I suspect that is how it eventually came into Pentecostalism etc.

 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In his book or books Ham tends to use the term "Present Truth" to describe the pinnacle of theological development or doctrinal understanding that was brought back to the Church via the latest Restoration movement.
Do you reject the term because it smacks of relativism? Or what is the issue for you?
I'm not familiar with the term, "Present Truth". Just to be clear, I'm not defending Bill Harmon.

From the time of Moses until John the Baptist, the law was the "present truth". But we are no longer under the law.
So, the law is no longer "present truth"? Unless we should stone people for gathering firewood on the Sabbath.

Until John? Then what?

Matthew 11:13 NIV
For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Perhaps "present truth" could be a spiritual paradigm shift, as well.
Just to be clear, I'm not defending Bill Harmon.

The church I grew up in was moderately Cessationist.
Believing the miracle gifts were only "sign gifts" for the Apostolic age.
As a young adult I steered away from that position (present truth) and sought a church that was Continuationist.
Which led to the Charismatic/Pentecostal/Signs and Wonders churches.
That new area became a "present truth" for me.

I rejected that aspect of the previous upbringing in Cessationism,
to embrace the new paradigm of Continuationism. My present truth.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Pioneer3mm
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
28,368
7,745
Canada
✟722,324.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Present truth comes from the KJV and NKJV bibles mostly in the bible verse 2 Peter 1:12.


So it was not made up in the 1990s, it illustrates that there was a progressive revelation going on in the early church.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Just to be clear, I don't label one side of a difference of opinion as "the truth".
There is room for different interpretations, or opinions, within the whole of "truth".
Whatever that means.

Jesus is the truth, in response to Pilot's question: "What is truth?" (still a good question)

I am not calling Continuationism THE truth, thus leaving no room for Cessationism.
Both Continuationists and Cessationists have good reason and biblical support for what they believe.
I respect the position of anyone that has done their homework and made a decision.

I don't have to agree with someone to respect their position.
The Body of Christ is a BIG church with a broad spectrum of beliefs.
I'm not going to tell someone that their position is false and my position is true.

This doesn't mean "hands off" in reference to healthy discussion and even debate.
We SHOULD challenge one another. But spiritual abusers should be ignored.

Your doctrinal/theological opinion doesn't negate mine simply because you declare yours as "truth".
Same applies if you claim your opinion is "God's Word". (from the Bible)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,301
10,591
Georgia
✟909,607.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Just to be clear, I don't label one side of a difference of opinion as "the truth".
There is room for different interpretations, or opinions, within the whole of "truth".
Whatever that means.
2 Pet 1:12 - NKJV -- 12 For this reason I will not be negligent to remind you always of these things, though you know and are established in the present truth.

KJV - 12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

In the primary ages of Earth's history there has always been "present truth" for that day.

In the case of Noah - it was the truth about the flood and God's saving grace what warned the world and provided an escape.
In the case of Israel at Sinai - it was the nation-church model of gospel evangelism started at Sinai
In the case of John the baptizer -- it was the Messiah coming to save mankind "on time" as predicted by Dan 9's 490 year prophecy.
In the case of the book of Acts - it was the launch of the Christian church (persecuted church) evangelism.
In our day it is about the soon appearing of Christ and various warnings in scripture such as the mark of the beast in Rev 13 and 14.

=================

But your question seems to be about some non-SDA group also reading that same 2 Pet 1:12 text and coming up with a different idea about what is "present truth".
 
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Present truth comes from the KJV and NKJV bibles mostly in the bible verse 2 Peter 1:12.


So it was not made up in the 1990s, it illustrates that there was a progressive revelation going on in the early church.
Thanks for the research and link.
Begs the question about how the word "present" should be defined.
Not "present", as in "at this time", but rather, "present" as in, "a current possession".
Something "you now have", that is "with you presently".
See other translations below.

New International Version
So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have.

New Living Translation
Therefore, I will always remind you about these things—even though you already know them and are standing firm in the truth you have been taught.

English Standard Version
Therefore I intend always to remind you of these qualities, though you know them and are established in the truth that you have.

Berean Standard Bible
Therefore I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are established in the truth you now have.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore I will be ready always to remind you concerning these things, though knowing them and having been strengthened in the truth being present in you.

King James Bible
Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

New King James Version
For this reason I will not be negligent to remind you always of these things, though you know and are established in the present truth.

New American Standard Bible
Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them and have been established in the truth which is present with you.

NASB 1995
Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you.

NASB 1977
Therefore, I shall always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you.

Legacy Standard Bible
Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been strengthened in the truth which is present with you.

Amplified Bible
Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them and are established in the truth which is held firmly in your grasp.

Christian Standard Bible
Therefore I will always remind you about these things, even though you know them and are established in the truth you now have.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore I will always remind you about these things, even though you know them and are established in the truth you have.

American Standard Version
Wherefore I shall be ready always to put you in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and are established in the truth which is with you.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
28,368
7,745
Canada
✟722,324.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Thanks for the research and link.
Begs the question about how the word "present" should be defined.
Not "present", as in "at this time", but rather, "present" as in, "a current possession".
Something "you now have", that is "with you presently".
See other translations below.

New International Version
So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have.

New Living Translation
Therefore, I will always remind you about these things—even though you already know them and are standing firm in the truth you have been taught.

English Standard Version
Therefore I intend always to remind you of these qualities, though you know them and are established in the truth that you have.

Berean Standard Bible
Therefore I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are established in the truth you now have.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore I will be ready always to remind you concerning these things, though knowing them and having been strengthened in the truth being present in you.

King James Bible
Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

New King James Version
For this reason I will not be negligent to remind you always of these things, though you know and are established in the present truth.

New American Standard Bible
Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them and have been established in the truth which is present with you.

NASB 1995
Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you.

NASB 1977
Therefore, I shall always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you.

Legacy Standard Bible
Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been strengthened in the truth which is present with you.

Amplified Bible
Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them and are established in the truth which is held firmly in your grasp.

Christian Standard Bible
Therefore I will always remind you about these things, even though you know them and are established in the truth you now have.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore I will always remind you about these things, even though you know them and are established in the truth you have.

American Standard Version
Wherefore I shall be ready always to put you in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and are established in the truth which is with you.
Some translators do not like this implication so translate not using the words "now" or "present" so perhaps debatable.

However, seeing how the early church writings discuss certain matters such as the secret gospel of mark, and then all of a sudden stop discussing it around the time quotes from the gospel of John start to appear is perhaps a good hint. As the gospel of Mark had a theme of "but don't tell anyone," the Gospel of John had a theme of "the hidden being made known."

So perhaps a reflection on when the faith competed against mystery cults, and then no longer needed to keep secrets to be competitive.
 
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,312
56
Boyertown, PA.
✟768,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Do you reject the term because it smacks of relativism? Or what is the issue for you?
I'm not familiar with the term, "Present Truth". Just to be clear, I'm not defending Bill Harmon.

From the time of Moses until John the Baptist, the law was the "present truth". But we are no longer under the law.
So, the law is no longer "present truth"? Unless we should stone people for gathering firewood on the Sabbath.

Until John? Then what?

Matthew 11:13 NIV
For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.

From the standpoint of both history and the Bible I am against Hamon's viewpoint.


Hamon's viewpoint kind of reminds me of the book of "The Two Babylon's" by Hislop.

1) It is church history from folks that haven't really read Church history past the Reformation and the book of Acts. They tend to believe that the Latin West is the only ancient Church out there because that is mostly how things were framed in all the books they read. They tend to see things going downhill "since Constantine", assume that is when all the Catholic type things came into Christianity as far as bishops, sacraments, formal liturgies etc. when if they had bothered to read the Apostolic Fathers, they would see those things are much, much earlier. You can make a case they started with the Apostles since you clearly see them in the immediate Apostolic Fathers, which were discipled by people like Saint John the Divine.



2) As far as the Bible goes, I would go with the line I first read in some modern works like "Becoming Orthodox" where Jesus promises to "Build His Church and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it." If you really analyze some of the claims of the Restorationists they seem to imply that Satan was able to block or keep people in darkness for most of Church history until God finally honors his promise. Besides this the chapter in some place like 1 Cornthians where Paul speaks of "laying foundations" also comes to mind. They seem to be implying that they are having to relay some foundation... and that goes against such Biblical passages.



3) There is a certain Rorschach inkblot nature to how Restorationists work. They often do everything based on individualist interpretation of the Bible, which some (Calvinists) have dubbed Solo Scriptura as opposed to an orthodox Lutheran or Calvinist view etc. which is not against things like Church Fathers, Creeds etc. as an aid. Anyway, it is the old saying of "Nature abhors a Vacuum" and the old joke of "What do we get when we assume?" :)

This Calvinist article spells the problems out very well.



4) On top of this I will add the problem of selectively cherry-picking Bible verses and often arbitrarily rationalizing ones that go against what you don't want they want to do. This is especially seen when they talk about how church worship should be done and assume that formal liturgy is dead, and everything should be spontaneous.... And the same goes for keeping church order, much looser than saint Paul on giving prophecies, women not having their head covered etc.



5) All of this was a big problem for me back in the movement, especially the suspicion such people have of things like education, theology etc. Such things often are made out to be "the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil", while whatever feel good stuff such preachers want to do obviously comes from the Tree of Life.



6) I will have to also add the nature of Truth and Discernment in the Bible.

If you do a word study on such things as Truth, Spiritual discernment there often is an analytical and objective component to many of the Greek and Hebrew words as well as to some related words regarding wisdom. (This is in contrast to their assumptions and claims, where these things only take place subjectively as some kind of spiritual feeling etc. as their version of "The Gift of Discernment").

I learned this actually from being personally attacked from a pastor in the movement. This pastor who I considered a friend seemed at the time seemed bent on trying to undermine my self-confidence when we talked about the Bible, spirituality etc. I am cerebral person by nature and I believe that is how God made me intentuaonally, but this guy really tried to undermine that. But this eventually backfired, where I began to investigate many of the assumptions of the movement when I actually started an online Bible school program and began my own study of the root words and concepts of the Bible. I found that the actual context of many things in the Bible was often 180 degrees different than what some of these people assumed or claimed and of course even the word for Truth in the Greek, Alethia, stands for objective, factual truth... something these people often pooh pooh.


7) The Ark/ Remnant analogy (used by certain groups as the last defense / response to the above reasons. This is something that can be easily challenged via "the Devil in the Details", there often are big differences, assumptions that are being made. However, by virtue of the fact that is a free country, and "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". I think it is fine that people choose to believe this to get through the day. It is however a different matter to preach and proclaim it, for that more evidence and reason is needed beyond mere assertion.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,301
10,591
Georgia
✟909,607.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I found that the actual context of many things in the Bible was often 180 degrees different than what some of these people assumed or claimed and of course even the word for Truth in the Greek, Alethia, stands for objective, factual truth... something these people often pooh pooh.
Matt 24 Jesus said in the end the whole world is deceived as they were in Noah's day.
Rev 13 says that in the end - the whole world is going to be deceived
in Noah's day - 8 made it out alive - the rest of the planet -- not so much.

in Matt 7 even Christians will be saying to Jesus "Lord Lord did we not do this or that in YOUR name" - and will be wrong, deceived

Jesus said in Matt 24 "I have told you in advance" so that you will not have to be deceived.

We know that The ARK in Noah's day was a wooden ark. Only 8 people went in - but today the ark is Jesus' teaching in the Bible -- all of it. Many prophecies warn us about what is coming almost no groups understand what it is. Just as in Noah's day.

That is the easy part.

I just did a sermon today on the "mark of the beast" of Rev 13 and 14.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Freth
Upvote 0