The Prayers of the Royal Priesthood

[Arsenios]

God is a total Give - As John writes, God Love IS...
And for us to be mature [perfected] in the Faith,
We need be ALL give as well, following Him...
Union with God is not union with the world...
Self/Ego is union with the world, the old man...
The duality of life/death, pleasure/pain...
These are the ruling powers of the old-self-man...
For the Mature Christian, the ruling power...
Is the Power of the Love that God IS...
And it is a matter of degree in His Saints...

iow - Selflessness is not merely a term describing the virtue of self sacrifice...
But far more and much deeper it is a term describing the condition of soul
That is one with God moving according to God's Will within creation...
It is the condition of soul that is capable of embracing union with God...
Of entering into the Marriage of the Lamb...
Which is the divinization of man BY this very union...
In the Orthodox Faith, it is called Theosis...
Without a human will in the world but only moving with the divine Will of God...
This quality of Life in Christ spread the Christian Faith throughout the world...
Repent and be baptized, every one of you...
For as many as have been Baptized into Christ have put on Christ...

There is no other Faith on earth that offers this to man...
This is Life in the Kingdom of Heaven...
Be ye repenting, for the Kingdom of Heaven is here and now...
By the simple but not easy Way of repentance from sin...
The purification of the Heart...
In patience and longsuffering...
Seeking only the Goodness of God's Will for one's self and one's neighbor...

Arsenios

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

God is a total Give - As John writes, God Love IS...
And for us to be mature [perfected] in the Faith,
We need be ALL give as well, following Him...
Union with God is not union with the world...
Self/Ego is union with the world, the old man...
The duality of life/death, pleasure/pain...
These are the ruling powers of the old-self-man...
For the Mature Christian, the ruling power...
Is the Power of the Love that God IS...
And it is a matter of degree in His Saints...

Arsenios

The identification of Melchizdek with the Messiah is found in Qumran Scroll. 11QMelch. In this document Melchizedek was expected to 'proclaim release of certain captives (sons of light) and 'atonement for sin' The author of 11QMelch identified Melchizedek as the Messiah, using terminology found in Hebrews ' Son and High Priest'

Even if the two Messiah functions -that of Priest and King- were coalesced into one person, in some documents, they remain distinctive characteristics of the Messiah. A priest-Messiah, not a normative expectation outside of the Qumran, but important to the Sect, finds ample delienation in the Epistle to Hebrews. Undeniably Melchizedek had an exalted position at Qumran, and scholars of Hebrews have argued that the writer of Hebrews was well aware of this fact. However the centrality of priesthood in the epistle is developed far beyond the fragmentary text of QMelch.

quote from Priscilla's Letter ~ Ruth Hoppin​

Again moving beyond the laying on of hands, etc, is reference to Hebrews being taught that the Aaronic priesthood had been surpassed as well as the Melchezedec priesthood which was greater because he was also king of peace and righteousness. 'Tradition' (to delve there for a moment) links Melchezedec to Nazirite vow of Numbers 6:2
Speak to the Israelites, and tell them, When either a man or a woman takes a special vow, to take a vow as a Nazirite, to separate himself to the Lord,
The construction uses the infinitive construct followed by the cognate accusative: to vow a vow. This intensifies the idea that the vow is being taken carefully.
The name of the vow is taken from the verb that follows; (nazar) means to consecrate oneself, and so the Nazirite is a consecrated one. These are folks who would make a decision to take an oath for a time or for a lifetime to be committed to the Lord and show signs of separation from the world. Samuel was to be a Nazirite, as the fragment of the text from Qumran confirms; he will be a (nazir) forever (1 Samuel 1:22).
The form of the verb is an Hiphil infinitive construct, forming the wordplay and explanation for the name Nazirite. The Hiphil is here an internal causative, having the meaning of consecrate oneself or just consecrate to the Lord.
That the Melchezedek priesthood has been surpassed refers to the event of Jesus securing a church from out of the world unto which He is high priest. All are royal priests under Him-who-was-ordained-of-God.
I can't break it down further than that, but it doesn't seem to be contained within your belief system?

 

[Arsenios]

The identification of Melchizdek with the Messiah is found in Qumran Scroll. 11QMelch. In this document Melchizedek was expected to 'proclaim release of certain captives (sons of light) and 'atonement for sin' The author of 11QMelch identified Melchizedek as the Messiah, using terminology found in Hebrews ' Son and High Priest'

Even if the two Messiah functions -that of Priest and King- were coalesced into one person, in some documents, they remain distinctive characteristics of the Messiah. A priest-Messiah, not a normative expectation outside of the Qumran, but important to the Sect, finds ample delienation in the Epistle to Hebrews. Undeniably Melchizedek had an exalted position at Qumran, and scholars of Hebrews have argued that the writer of Hebrews was well aware of this fact. However the centrality of priesthood in the epistle is developed far beyond the fragmentary text of QMelch.

quote from Priscilla's Letter ~ Ruth Hoppin​

​

What I was (and am) looking for is the feature(s) of the Melchisidekian order of the priesthood that differentiate(s) it from that of the Levites... From Ruth Hoppin's letter, it would seem to include prophesy, which is sometimes found among the Levites... And it CAN include worldly Kingship, but did NOT in Christ... Although He is our Heavenly King...

Do you think that Kingship is an essential feature of the Melchisedekian priesthood, and that none of the Levites were kings?

Again moving beyond the laying on of hands, etc, is reference to Hebrews being taught that the Aaronic priesthood had been surpassed as well as the Melchezedec priesthood which was greater because he was also king of peace and righteousness. 'Tradition' (to delve there for a moment) links Melchezedec to Nazirite vow of Numbers 6:2

Self-commitment is an essential feature of ANY priesthood...

Speak to the Israelites, and tell them, When either a man or a woman takes a special vow, to take a vow as a Nazirite, to separate himself to the Lord,
The construction uses the infinitive construct followed by the cognate accusative: to vow a vow. This intensifies the idea that the vow is being taken carefully.
The name of the vow is taken from the verb that follows; (nazar) means to consecrate oneself, and so the Nazirite is a consecrated one. These are folks who would make a decision to take an oath for a time or for a lifetime to be committed to the Lord and show signs of separation from the world. Samuel was to be a Nazirite, as the fragment of the text from Qumran confirms; he will be a (nazir) forever (1 Samuel 1:22).
The form of the verb is an Hiphil infinitive construct, forming the wordplay and explanation for the name Nazirite. The Hiphil is here an internal causative, having the meaning of (to) consecrate oneself or just consecrate to the Lord.[/quote]

This validates the idea that ANY person can separate himself or herself unto the Lord for a spiritual purpose - And indeed this is what the Holy Virgin did - indeed HAD done - prior to the Annunciation by the Angel Gabriel... This is why she was so holy at such a young age - This self-consecration of self unto God is the basic meaning of holy, which means separated from the world for the saake of God... But the simple fact of a person endeavoring in such a way does not mean that they will succeed...

That the Melchezedek priesthood has been surpassed refers to the event of Jesus securing a church from out of the world unto which He is high priest. All are royal priests under Him-who-was-ordained-of-God.

If Christ is a Priest forever according to the Order of Melchidesek, then why do you say it has been surpassed, by which I suppose you mean no longer exists, like the Levitical Priesthood? But does not this priesthood still exist among the pious Jews? If all are "royal priests" who are members of His Body, the Church, then are they so according to the Order of Melchidisek? Not individually, at least... But as a Body, the Body of Christ, I think they are...

It seems a complex issue...

I can't break it down further than that, but it doesn't seem to be contained within your belief system?-+

The Faith of Christ is not a belief system...

It is Union with Christ...

In the Marriage of the Lamb...

Arsenios

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I have to admit that I'm quite influenced by what I see as God's interactions with His people from the Adams in the garden to the revelation that the Christian place is now seated in the heavenlies with Him. All of it has been on a learning curve. The Adams may have been created perfect but not perfect enough to know the difference between good and bad, so conscience was awakened. Every man and woman was for themselves.

As a nation that was to be a holy priesthood in the first instance only the one tribe that was willing to kill all their brothers and sisters who disobeyed (even tho Aaron their leader was the builder of the golden idol) was given the preisthood (the beginning of the Levite priesthood)

God's directives on how to build a temple was the wilderness tabernacle. What that spelled out was the way to the Holy of Holies thru sacrifice, washing, light on the shewbread, prayers leading to the covering over the budded rod(life from death) manna(Christ's feeding) and the 10 commandments(God and neighbor loved)

The main point of wilderness travel is the fact that God does lead His people. Anything after that is a repeat of that revelation from God.

During the time of judges the Levitical priesthood wasn't existant except to the tribe of Dan (no longer in the inheritance) By the time of Samuel that Levitical priesthood was replaced with Nazirite priesthood also not according to the strict Levitical priesthood. John the Baptist was also of the Nazirites.

God has returned to having a kingdom of priests as much of the NT attests to. Christ being of the tribe of Judah is the kingly line so of course that's important because we are identified with Him.

Because of God's involvement from the beginning His requirements seem to be on a learning curve that anyone that believes can fall into anywhere along the way, from not knowing the difference between good and bad, still worshipping idols as Rebecca did or offering strange fire that no priest should.

Because of this there is milk and meat so there need be teachers. But one must not linger in the milk while there is meat to teach, which was not a command to anyone but all His people.

God's call is a call to maturity because the harvest is soon and the fields are ripe for plucking. Pray for more harvesters.

 

[Arsenios]

I can't break it down further than that, but it doesn't seem to be contained within your belief system?

Gen 14:18-20
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine:
and he was the priest of the most high God.
And he blessed him (Abram), and said,
"Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
And blessed be the most high God,
which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand."
And he (Abram) gave him (Melchidezek) tithes of (from) all (the other kings).

Followed by this from the Psalms:

Psa 110 A Psalm of David.
The LORD said unto my Lord,
"Sit Thou at My right hand,
until I make thine enemies Thy footstool".
The LORD shall send the rod of Thy strength out of Zion:
"Rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Thy people shall be willing in the day of Thy power,
in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning:
thou hast the dew of thy youth."
The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent:
"Thou art a priest for ever
after the order of Melchizedek."

Nowhere else in the OT is Melchidezek mentioned, nor the Order of Melchidezek...

Yet we have the Pharisee of Pharisees, steeped in the Jewish Traditions of the time of Christ, and a former persecutor of Christians, and a called Apostle of Christ in the Orthodox Faith, an appointer of Bishops and Priests and Deacons in the Churches he founded, and a Christ-taught preacher of the Word of God, knowing only Christ crucified, preaching the Cross (suffering)... And he bears this witness of Christ to the Jews in Hebrews concerning Melchidezek:

Heb 7
For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God,
who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all;
first being by interpretation King of righteousness,
and after that also King of Salem,
which is, King of peace;
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life;
but made like unto the Son of God;
abiding a priest continually.
Now consider how great this man was,
unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

And verily they that are of the sons of Levi,
who receive the office of the priesthood,
have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law,
that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham,
and blessed him that had the promises.
And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
And here men that die receive tithes;
But there he receiveth them,
of whom it is witnessed
that he is Living.

And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,)
what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec,
and not be called after the order of Aaron?
For the priesthood being changed,
there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

For He of Whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe,
of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda;
of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

And it is yet far more evident:
Because after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment,
but after the Power of an endless life.
For He testifieth, "Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before
for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did;
by the which we draw nigh unto God.

And inasmuch as not without an oath He was made Priest:
(For those priests were made without an oath;
But this with an oath by Him that said unto Him,
"The Lord sware and will not repent,
Thou art a priest for ever
after the order of Melchisedec:")
By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

And they truly were many priests,
because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
But this man, because he continueth ever,
hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him,
seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

For such an high priest became us,
Who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners,
and made higher than the heavens;
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice,
first for his own sins, and then for the people's:
for this He did once, when He offered up Himself.

For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity;
but the Word of the Oath,
which was since the law,
maketh the Son, who is consecrated
for evermore.

This is all that is written about the Order of Melchidezek, and it sounds a lot like this Order is the appearance of God incarnate coming in the guise of human flesh, where Jesus came fully incarnate...
God on earth in the appearance of human flesh, the High Priest to whom Abraham and Levi both tithe... But not actually the fallen flesh of man and woman conceived on earth...

So we can consider that there is a hierarchy in the priesthood, first from Melchidesek to the Levites, and now from Christ to the Priesthood of His Body, the Church... For with a change in the Law, there was of necessity a change in the Priesthood...

Please forgive the long post - I just thought it would be a good idea to get it all laid out - It is so easy to wander astray on bit-parsing of sentence fragments - The order here is not of a man named Jesus self-consecrating under the Law, but of the Oath of God consecrating Him in the flesh according to Eternal Life... which is the Order of the Melchidesekian Priesthood...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

I have to admit that I'm quite influenced by what I see as God's interactions with His people from the Adams in the garden to the revelation that the Christian place is now seated in the heavenlies with Him. All of it has been on a learning curve. The Adams may have been created perfect but not perfect enough to know the difference between good and bad, so conscience was awakened. Every man and woman was for themselves.

I have heard if the Adam's Family on TV,
but have not heard of the Adams in the Garden...

I did read of but one Adam in the Genesis account from Moses...
I rely on that, because I have no direct knowledge of it from God...
But Moses did...

Do you see Genesis as Mythic, in the good sense?

Arsenios

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Do you see Genesis as Mythic, in the good sense?
Arsenios

Genesis, like the rest of the bible that isn't poetry I see as literal but always with a spiritual meaning. Both sides to every story. God, mankind and satan are contained within for us to rightly divide the word by taking all into context. Genesis contains the seeds that are carried thru the rest of the bible. Word (topical) studies should always start there.

 

[Arsenios]

Genesis, like the rest of the bible that isn't poetry I see as literal but always with a spiritual meaning. Both sides to every story. God, mankind and satan are contained within for us to rightly divide the word by taking all into context. Genesis contains the seeds that are carried thru the rest of the bible. Word (topical) studies should always start there.

I asked because you very casually referred to multiple "ADAMS" in Genesis...

Arsenios

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I asked because you very casually referred to multiple "ADAMS" in Genesis...

Arsenios

I meant male and female Adam that God created before the naming of Eve.
Genesis 5:2
male and female created He them, and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Matthew 19:4
"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'

 

[Arsenios]

I meant male and female Adam that God created before the naming of Eve.
Genesis 5:2
male and female created He them, and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Matthew 19:4
"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'

Thank-you - That reading (eg understanding) of those vss had not occurred to me...

As OT words, they are somewhat dark sayings, and have depths...

Gen 5:1-3
This is the book of the generations of Adam.

This is the primary context of the meaning of all that follows...

In the day that God created man, in the image (Icon) of God made He him;

And this provides for God's creation of man, that man was created in God's image...

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Here, man is now plural, male and female, and blessed of God, and their name is Adam, which means "First Man", which are male and female...

And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

And here the genealogy of First Man begins in the 130th year of First Man's life when Seth is begotten of them... This establishes the generic name of the race of anthropods as patrilineal Man, in which there are two sexes, male and female, in the race of man created by God... It establishes the male as the primary sexual gender in this race that is man... For it is a male that is its first-born progeny... Later this is reaffirmed here:

Luke 2:23
As it is written in the Law of the Lord,
"Every male that openeth the womb
shall be called Holy to the Lord;"

Hence it is not that Eve is a man, but instead that Eve is the female member of the race of mankind, she being the setter of the standard of that race for women, which is why both fell in the Fall of Adam, both male and female, but primarily the male, if for no other reason than that both sexes are included in the Race of Adam [Man]...

So we do not have a female man, or a Female Adam, in Genesis, but the female sex in the primogenitors of the race of man in the man Adam, and the first Woman created by God from the Rib of First Man... The con-fusion comes from the Providance of God anticipting the Fall... Man is created male and female, man and woman, which does not come into play until after the Fall of Man, male and female...

These wordings contain profound Mysteries of our human existence, male and female, in the race of man, whereby in the Kingdom of Heaven, there is neither male nor female...

When you referred to male Adam and female Adam, you kind of threw me, for there was confusion of the Generic Adam with the two persons of Adam and Eve... And this because, you see, there is no "womankind" in Genesis, but only the woman Eve, whereas there is Mankind... Because Adam = Man generically, but Eve does not... And Adam also means the man named Adam...

These are dark (eg hidden) sayings - Clearly the primary relationship of man and woman is not sexual, but ontologically existential - They are to be one in Christ, in

A difficult topic (at least for me) to write about with anything resembling accuracy...

So IF you mean by "a female Adam" a "female member of the race of man", then I think we are on the same page... But in the Holy Tradition of the Faith, there is no such thing as a Female Adam - There is only Adam, and then there is Adam and Eve...

Arsenios

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Thank-you - That reading (eg understanding) of those vss had not occurred to me...

As OT words, they are somewhat dark sayings, and have depths...

Gen 5:1-3
This is the book of the generations of Adam.

This is the primary context of the meaning of all that follows...

In the day that God created man, in the image (Icon) of God made He him;

And this provides for God's creation of man, that man was created in God's image...

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Here, man is now plural, male and female, and blessed of God, and their name is Adam, which means "First Man", which are male and female...

And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

And here the genealogy of First Man begins in the 130th year of First Man's life when Seth is begotten of them... This establishes the generic name of the race of anthropods as patrilineal Man, in which there are two sexes, male and female, in the race of man created by God... It establishes the male as the primary sexual gender in this race that is man... For it is a male that is its first-born progeny... Later this is reaffirmed here:

Luke 2:23
As it is written in the Law of the Lord,
"Every male that openeth the womb
shall be called Holy to the Lord;"

Hence it is not that Eve is a man, but instead that Eve is the female member of the race of mankind, she being the setter of the standard of that race for women, which is why both fell in the Fall of Adam, both male and female, but primarily the male, if for no other reason than that both sexes are included in the Race of Adam [Man]...

So we do not have a female man, or a Female Adam, in Genesis, but the female sex in the primogenitors of the race of man in the man Adam, and the first Woman created by God from the Rib of First Man... The con-fusion comes from the Providance of God anticipting the Fall... Man is created male and female, man and woman, which does not come into play until after the Fall of Man, male and female...

These wordings contain profound Mysteries of our human existence, male and female, in the race of man, whereby in the Kingdom of Heaven, there is neither male nor female...

When you referred to male Adam and female Adam, you kind of threw me, for there was confusion of the Generic Adam with the two persons of Adam and Eve... And this because, you see, there is no "womankind" in Genesis, but only the woman Eve, whereas there is Mankind... Because Adam = Man generically, but Eve does not... And Adam also means the man named Adam...

These are dark (eg hidden) sayings - Clearly the primary relationship of man and woman is not sexual, but ontologically existential - They are to be one in Christ, in

A difficult topic (at least for me) to write about with anything resembling accuracy...

So IF you mean by "a female Adam" a "female member of the race of man", then I think we are on the same page... But in the Holy Tradition of the Faith, there is no such thing as a Female Adam - There is only Adam, and then there is Adam and Eve...

As there is one new Adam, Christ. That is the spiritual definition of Christ and the church. Eve being the church. And we know from Paul that the church is one, with no division of sex. Divisions are seen in the analogy of law and grace in Galatians 4. Abraham was the father of faith but he begat others who were of the law also. Sarah is related to grace and of the promise, not according to law. That is the crux of scripture according to the NT/NC. They (Christ and His church) are one.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I don't get anything but grief from discussing the above subject but it's very hard for me to understand how anyone that professes to follow the teaching of Paul can believe that he taught anything but grace to all. He was opposed to following the law above anything else so to believe that he taught grace to only half the human race while the other half are under law isn't feasible to me. As a shadow to illustrate the reality is explainable when looking at the big picture of Christ as the One Man and humankind as the female representative of the church. Look at anything presented as teaching to women and it fits with the preferred behavior of the church. If you wish to break it down to law then please show me where is the law in the OT that Paul referred to about women being silent.

 

[Arsenios]

I don't get anything but grief from discussing the above subject but it's very hard for me to understand how anyone that professes to follow the teaching of Paul can believe that he taught anything but grace to all. He was opposed to following the law above anything else so to believe that he taught grace to only half the human race while the other half are under law isn't feasible to me. As a shadow to illustrate the reality is explainable when looking at the big picture of Christ as the One Man and humankind as the female representative of the church. Look at anything presented as teaching to women and it fits with the preferred behavior of the church. If you wish to break it down to law then please show me where is the law in the OT that Paul referred to about women being silent.

Cassia - Was the above addressed to me?

fwiw, the Antiochian Church, where the followers of Christ were first called Christians, was founded by Paul that year that he over-wintered there and taught them the Gospel... We can sure talk about the Law, but Paul taught askesis - eg Christ Crucified - And that in Power...

if I ever end up giving you any grief whatsoever, please smack me hard, OK?

Paul discipled the following of Christ by the penitent in patient long-suffering, for this is the discipleship that leads to Grace in the person so following Him...

Arsenios

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Cassia - Was the above addressed to me?

No not really I guess I'm getting tired of having to get past that before anything else can be discussed. Which it never does get past unfortunately. No one should be judged according to anything but their relationship to Christ.

fwiw, the Antiochian Church, where the followers of Christ were first called Christians, was founded by Paul that year that he over-wintered there and taught them the Gospel... We can sure talk about the Law, but Paul taught askesis - eg Christ Crucified - And that in Power...

If someone has died with Christ from the elements of the world then why, while living in the world, do you subject yourselves to ordinances? No one ever hated their own body, lest of all Christ!

if I ever end up giving you any grief whatsoever, please smack me hard, OK?

lol, I'm practicing refraining from such or speaking from the urge. More power to me eh? jkg

Paul discipled the following of Christ by the penitent in patient long-suffering, for this is the discipleship that leads to Grace in the person so following Him...

Arsenios

I don't disagree that longsuffering is one of the products of the power of the Holy Spirit that leads to our growth. 'And not only so, but we may also boast in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces endurance' because 'In your endurance you will possess your souls.'

Romans 15:1-5
But we ought, we that are strong, to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Let each one of us please his neighbour with a view to what is good, to edification.
For the Christ also did not please himself; but according as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproach thee have fallen upon me.
For as many things as have been written before have been written for our instruction, that through endurance and through encouragement of the scriptures we might have hope.
Now the God of endurance and of encouragement give to you to be like-minded one toward another, according to Christ Jesus

 

[Arsenios]

No not really I guess I'm getting tired of having to get past that before anything else can be discussed. Which it never does get past unfortunately. No one should be judged according to anything but their relationship to Christ.
If someone has died with Christ from the elements of the world then why, while living in the world, do you subject yourselves to ordinances? No one ever hated their own body, lest of all Christ!
lol, I'm practicing refraining from such or speaking from the urge. More power to me eh? jkg
I don't disagree that longsuffering is one of the products of the power of the Holy Spirit that leads to our growth. 'And not only so, but we may also boast in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces endurance' because 'In your endurance you will possess your souls.'

Romans 15:1-5
But we ought, we that are strong, to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Let each one of us please his neighbour with a view to what is good, to edification.
For the Christ also did not please himself; but according as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproach thee have fallen upon me.
For as many things as have been written before have been written for our instruction, that through endurance and through encouragement of the scriptures we might have hope.
Now the God of endurance and of encouragement give to you to be like-minded one toward another, according to Christ Jesus

Great post, C...

An ascetic life is not living according to ordinances - The "ordinances" are INTERNAL to the Body of Christ - eg for instance:
The fasting calendar of the Church - Prescribing minimums...
The schedule of services from day to day, from week to week, from month to month, and year to year...
Fasting from evening meal till... Break-FAST...
Even outside our Church, don't you say grace before your meals?
Don't you attend Sunday Services?

And from Paul whom you cited, not pleasing your SELF is an askesis...
Can you remember a recent hour wherein you did nothing to please yourself? Yet Paul is clear:
But we ought, we that are strong, to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
This is the bearing of our own cross in denial of self following Christ...
It is huge...
Not to mention being SAME-minded one with another... Who has done that lately?

Yet if we follow Paul, as we should, in order that we follow Christ, we should boast in our infirmities...

The so called ordinances are but the doing which Christ commanded the Apostles to be discipling the faithful... Purification of the heart is not a worldly ordinance... He who has suffered has ceased from sin...

Paul preaches askesis - In every epistle...

God Bless You, C...!

A.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Great post, C...

An ascetic life is not living according to ordinances - The "ordinances" are INTERNAL to the Body of Christ - eg for instance:
The fasting calendar of the Church - Prescribing minimums...
The schedule of services from day to day, from week to week, from month to month, and year to year...
Fasting from evening meal till... Break-FAST...
Even outside our Church, don't you say grace before your meals?
Don't you attend Sunday Services?

And from Paul whom you cited, not pleasing your SELF is an askesis...
Can you remember a recent hour wherein you did nothing to please yourself? Yet Paul is clear:
But we ought, we that are strong, to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
This is the bearing of our own cross in denial of self following Christ...
It is huge...
Not to mention being SAME-minded one with another... Who has done that lately?

Yet if we follow Paul, as we should, in order that we follow Christ, we should boast in our infirmities...

The so called ordinances are but the doing which Christ commanded the Apostles to be discipling the faithful... Purification of the heart is not a worldly ordinance... He who has suffered has ceased from sin...

Paul preaches askesis - In every epistle...

God Bless You, C...!

A.

I read lots, mostly study books about different aspects of Christ. Right now it's the Acts of the Apostles by G. Campbell Morgan. I also have on my sidetable for reference lately another of his books Discipleship along with Robert E. Coleman's book The Mind of the Master, Dietrich Bonhiefer's The Cost of Discipleship, and Watchman Nee's The Communion of the Holy Spirit. I probably have at least another dozen books waiting to be read (my winter hybernation project)

I guess my other ascetics would include readily forgiving myself and others quickly by talking things over with God as they occur. Never letting go of the fact that no matter what I think or do I'm bringing the Holy Spirit with me. Giving to others excess goods not junk. Leading with kindness and if I can't do that then apologizing where need be. When I'm on the forums I depend on Him to get me out of the tight spots He always gets me into.(and He always does )

My form of worship to Him isn't so much a physical thing as it is in the spirit to the Spirit. Having an attitude of gratitude for Him for everything keeps Him near. Not saying it's always like that but perseverance counts for everything.

 

[Arsenios]

I read lots...
I probably have at least another dozen books waiting to be read (my winter hybernation project)

I read voraciously for many years...
Today, not so much...
My favorite Biblical commentary came, I believe, from a Protestant Christian who wrote this:
"Remember... YOU may be the ONLY Gospel that some will ever read..."
An Orthodox mnemonic stressing the practical in Spiritual praxis...

Because I came to the Christian Faith from being an atheist, my first task was get an over-view of just what the heck was going on for those who are actually living Christian Spiritual lives... Everyone has an angle, but I wanted the overview... And I finally found it reading the man whose picture is my avatar... Following our calling by God, we purify the heart by repentance from sin and call upon the Name of the Lord, and this leads us to the illumination of our nous by God in purity of heart... This illumination of the mind is the normal state of mind for a Christian... It leads us to enhanced repentance - The taking on of challenging ascetical podvigs that then in time and at God's option lead to the Marriage of the Lamb, where in this life we become one with God... This is called Theosis, where the boundaries of self and God lose their distinctness in that union that is knowing God... This is the exceptional state of the human being. Paul wrote of it - "I knew a man... whether in the body or out of the body, I know not - God knows..." It can last from a few seconds [or less] to a few days [or more]... It is an Old Testament and a New Testament attainment - Moses and the Prophets had it... So also Christian Saints... All this from a still living Metropolitan (Hierotheos Vlachos) still living in Greece...

Then, having come to understand the personal progression, I still did not understand the relationship of this personal with its connection to God's Creation, until I read, about ten years ago, Vladimir Lossky's "The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church." I opened the book to its first page on a New Year's day's morning in a breakfast nook in Roslyn, WA with a fresh cup of early morning coffee, and before I could read even the first word, I was settled upon by these noetic words: "This is the Truth." It shows why our repentance is so important, why the soul of any one person is more valuable than the whole world... Why God created us... And why there is nothing more important than our turning from this fallen life in repentance and fleeing to God for His Grace, forsaking all... "For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God..."

Creation was created in purity and holiness, and we only have within our fallen purview the ability to imperfectly repent - Which is a great Grace of itself, because it forces us to communicate with God in our fallen anguish of our messed-up lives for His Grace, that we overcome our adversary(-ies)... Our very mental health is predicated on union with God... For it is the source of all health...

Winter is a great time to read - Especially when show is falling outside, and you have a hot cup beside you and a warm hearth and a profound need to know...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Having an attitude of gratitude for Him for everything keeps Him near. Not saying it's always like that but perseverance counts for everything.

A wise post...
We like to proclaim: "Glory to God in ALL things!"
Then we come down with, say, throat cancer, and are told we will die of slow strangulation - And mostly in vain do I long for those words to be proclaimed... And indeed in all calamities... "Why ME Lord?" becomes the new mantra of discouragement... Someone even wrote a book on it: "Why do Bad Things Happen to Good People?" And this when Scripture plainly states: "In the world YOU WILL HAVE tribulation..." So that IF we are His, tribulations are great blessings... The ungodly so often do NOT have worldly tribultion - They have pain killers and Viagra and money and power and anti-depressants... We should be thanking God for our tribulations, and beseeching Him for Mercy when we are not having any of them as if we have been abandoned by God! But those folks are hard to find... Although an encouraging number of them CAN be found in the Orthodox Faith...

Thankfulness to God DOES, as you say, keep Him close at hand... But even that can be abused... I knew one guy that would USE thankfulness to eliminate demonic activity in his body when he would get sick, on the theory that demons hate gratitude to God so much that they would pull out and he would recover from their visitation of illness... It worked for awhile... Others ASK God for, say, cancer, and keep it untreated in gratitude to God unto death... A different matter...

Arsenios

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The most spiritual person I have ever known, one of my siblings, passed away from throat cancer, so I can relate somewhat because I stayed with him for the last year. He may never know how much his struggles gave to me. Some of those books are part of his library that I'm still working thru.
....

The True Bride of Christ (some things ARE worth waiting for)

The church came out from Jesus as Eve came out of Adam's side. Not created but built up. God is interested only in building His eternal dwelling. This is the governing vision and God's heart's desire is to dwell among us.

The bride is submissive to her Husband, goes to Him with all her questions, is as mute as a lamb having only the Word of God for her offensive.

The seed of the promise was to come thru Sarah (grace) and not Hagar (law) Galatians 4:21-31

The Bride is also representative of the follower of the Lord 1 Peter 3:5-6

We, as true overcomers, the bride, are the daughter's of Sarah: Galatians 4:28

Not just children of Grace (through Sarah) but of Faith (through Abraham) Galatians 3:29

Not the children of the law (Hagar) but children of grace (Sarah) both being children of Abraham Romans 4:13

Who is the Bride? Look to Galatians 3:28

Abraham looked for a city whose builder and maker was God. That was his faith and we are Abraham's (thru Sarah) children and therefore rightful heirs when we look to the builder of faith to overcome Hebrews 11:10

That is the true New Jerusalem, the Bride.
We are the NEW CREATION 2 Corinthians 5:17, 2 Corinthians 6: Galatians 6:15-18

I love the verses about Hagar and Sarah. Both had promises from God, but only one had the spiritual inheritance given to their offspring.

THE MOTHER AND GRACE ARE THE SAME THING

Galatians 4:21-31
But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother, the metropolis of Christianity, or rather the state of liberty into which all true believers are brought.

Jerusalem which is above is the spiritual Jerusalem; the true church of God.

The word rendered "above" (anw) means, properly, up above, that which is above; heavenly, celestial,
Colossians 3:1-2
Rules for Holy Living
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.
John 8:23
But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world

Here it means, the heavenly or celestial Jerusalem.

Revelation 21:2: "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God, out of heaven."
Hebrews 12:22: "Ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem."?

Here it is used to denote the church, as being of heavenly origin.

Is free. The spirit of the gospel is that of freedom.

It is freedom from sin, freedom from the bondage of rites and customs, and it promotes freedom for all in Christ.
Galatians 4:7
So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.

The House Being Built = New Jerusalem

1 Peter 2:5
you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.?

Such a life shall constantly proclaim his praise--as the sun, the moon, the stars, the hills, the streams, the flowers do, showing what God does. The consistent life of a devoted Christian is a constant setting forth of the praise of God, showing to all that the God who has made them such is worthy to be loved.

Barnes' Notes on 1 Peter 2:9
That ye should show forth the praises of him - Margin, "virtues." The Greek word (a??et?` arete¯) means properly "good quality, excellence" of any kind. It means here the excellences of God - His goodness, His wondrous deeds, or those things which make it proper to praise Him. This shows one great object for which they were redeemed. It was that they might proclaim the glory of God, and keep up the remembrance of His wondrous deeds in the earth. ...
Who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light - Ephesians 4:1. Darkness is the emblem of ignorance, sin, and misery, and refers here to their condition before their conversion; light is the emblem of the opposite, and is a beautiful representation of the state of those who are brought to the knowledge of the gospel. Acts of the Apostles 26:18. ...​

 

[Arsenios]

I guess my other ascetics would include readily forgiving myself and others quickly by talking things over with God as they occur.

This is at least half right!
For myself, I have found that praying for others brings huge benefits, and for myself, not so much...
Similarly, quickness to forgive others is immediately beneficial...
Self-forgiveness, not so much...
Askesis is the proof in one's own body of Spiritual attainment, and the means of that attainment, which is given by God, and is the Fruit of the Grace of God... It is the denial of the flesh's tyrrany over our souls... Whereby the flesh becomes obedient to the soul which is obedient to Christ in the Holy Spirit... This is the Teaching of the Cross... For 2000 years... It is the human side of the Means of Grace that is given by God Alone...

Arsenios