The "pontiff" called for reconciliation with the "religion of Voodoo"

[Avelina777]

Some of the issue may be using "voodoo" to mean different things. On the one hand it can be used to mean a particular set of religious/spiritual beliefs and practices. On the other hand it can include wider cultural issues - say food or clothing. And even within any religious system they will be some aspects that are shared with Christianity that can be used to further mutual understanding and the spread of the gospel.

Blanket condemnations of something doesn't achieve much that's positive. It just drives wedges between peoples and builds a seige mentality in both communities. It might seem safer but (a) it doesn't work as countless religious wars have shown and (b) the gospel is risky - it required meeting people and communities where they are.

Careful dialog, looking for positives and affirming them while challenging negatives and proclaiming the missing ingredient often does.

Thank you Ebia, I just have a hard time with religions that deny our Lord and Savior!! Your words are kind and I thank you for that, God Bless you!!

 

[Yarddog]

YD I am not saying he accepted their religion...I was saying he accepted their culture..maybe you can help me with this question why do voodoo leaders want the catholic church to ease up??

That was part of the articles which the BBC news reported on. I thought that you read their articles? I'm not sure exactly is occurring but the BBC article said:

One of the Voodoo leaders, Dah Aligbonon, said he hoped the pontiff would urge Roman Catholics to be more tolerant of Africa's traditional religions.
"I invite the Pope to tell his followers to stop acts of provocation against the Voodoo culture," he said, Reuters reports.

 

[Avelina777]

That was part of the articles which the BBC news reported on. I thought that you read their articles? I'm not sure exactly is occurring but the BBC article said:

One of the Voodoo leaders, Dah Aligbonon, said he hoped the pontiff would urge Roman Catholics to be more tolerant of Africa's traditional religions.
"I invite the Pope to tell his followers to stop acts of provocation against the Voodoo culture," he said, Reuters reports.

If you saw my post before I asked for my article from the bbc to be deleted!!! I don't what else to do!! I don't agree with the bbc, that was the one of the articles I found!! Please just stop, I am not trying to fight you, I respect your views, please respect mind as I think you do!! God Bless you YD!!!

 

[Yarddog]

If you saw my post before I asked for my article from the bbc to be deleted!!! I don't what else to do!! I don't agree with the bbc, that was the one of the articles I found!! Please just stop, I am not trying to fight you, I respect your views, please respect mind as I think you do!! God Bless you YD!!!

What are you upset about? You asked me about it. You posted this in your last post to me.

"maybe you can help me with this question why do voodoo leaders want the catholic church to ease up??"

I don't know exactly what is occurring but the BBC articles have reported what I gave you in my last post.

 

[Avelina777]

What are you upset about? You asked me about it. You posted this in your last post to me.

"maybe you can help me with this question why do voodoo leaders want the catholic church to ease up??"

I don't know exactly what is occurring but the BBC articles have reported what I gave you in my last post.

This thread was moving fast and I did not see that was your resposne, I am sorry, I agree the BBC is one sided that is why I requested for my post with the BBC article to be taken down...I personally can't stand the BBC.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

I don't practice Santeria. I aint got no crystal ball.....

 

[Avelina777]

I don't practice Santeria. I aint got no crystal ball.....

Well I had a million dollars and I spent it all ... LOL Good post!!

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Now, if only those Muslims would fall in line and accept universal salvation through the church, the new age can be ushered in......

Dang Free Masonry......get a move on your shrining already....get those muslims on board already.

 

[Avelina777]

Now, if only those Muslims would fall in line and accept universal salvation through the church, the new age can be ushered in......

Dang Free Masonry......get a move on your shrining already....get those muslims on board already.

LOL brother!!

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

LOL brother!!

I don't mean to take these things lightly, but seeing so much preterism and gnosticism on CF this last yr has really got me felling like the coming end of this age is but a novelty act to those blind sheep.

 

[Avelina777]

I don't mean to take these things lightly, but seeing so much preterism and gnosticism on CF this last yr has really got me felling like the coming end of this age is but a novelty act to those blind sheep.

very true!!!

 

[Jack Bauer]

And if Vatican II is not in agreement with God's word? I mean who says stuff like this? The Vatican does not equal Christ.

So why would you be in agreement with Vatican II as opposed to GOD? And perhaps this is fodder for another thread. And nothing against my Catholic Brothers and Sisters who have confessed their sins, repented and follow Christ. But why on earth does it appear that what the Catholic Church says carries more weight than what GOD says ?

I've read the documents of VCII and they do not violate God's word. In fact, most people that claim to know what they say don't know what they actually say and I would say they may be unintentionally lying at best. Charitable way of letting them off the hook.

I do believe many clergy do take to political of a stance. But as you say, I base my believe on Christ, the word of God. Jesus is the word. Paul tells us to follow his example. There have been many good and faithful Catholics throughout history that we would do good to follow, so long as they follow Christ. But to presume we know the hearts and minds of others is way obnoxious. Only God knows the heart and minds of others.

I've seen some pretty poor decisions from many preachers that have done and said things they probably would have been best not doing/saying. This includes Pat Robinson, Hayden, Olson, Swaggart, etc. I agree. I've often followed up on things that were allegedly said by so called "Roman" Catholic ministers [popes, bishops, priests, deacons, religious, laity] and found that they are often misquoted. Translations may effect some statements, but giving the benefit of the doubt.... need I say more. But there have been some pretty bad things in salvation history that were said. Most fundamentalists don't have at stake what the Catholic Church has at stake, 1.2 billions Christians to protect around the globe.

 

[Avelina777]

I've read the documents of VCII and they do not violate God's word. In fact, most people that claim to know what they say don't know what they actually say and I would say they may be unintentionally lying at best. Charitable way of letting them off the hook.

I do believe many clergy do take to political of a stance. But as you say, I base my believe on Christ, the word of God. Jesus is the word. Paul tells us to follow his example. There have been many good and faithful Catholics throughout history that we would do good to follow, so long as they follow Christ. But to presume we know the hearts and minds of others is way obnoxious. Only God knows the heart and minds of others.

I've seen some pretty poor decisions from many preachers that have done and said things they probably would have been best not doing/saying. This includes Pat Robinson, Hayden, Olson, Swaggart, etc. I agree. I've often followed up on things that were allegedly said by so called "Roman" Catholic ministers [popes, bishops, priests, deacons, religious, laity] and found that they are often misquoted. Translations may effect some statements, but giving the benefit of the doubt.... need I say more. But there have been some pretty bad things in salvation history that were said. Most fundamentalists don't have at stake what the Catholic Church has at stake, 1.2 billions Christians to protect around the globe.

That is an arrogant statement...no offense!!!

 

[Aeneas]

That is an arrogant statement...no offense!!!

*wryly*

How on earth is it "arrogant" to point out that most people haven't actually bothered reading Vatican II and really don't have any idea what they are talking about?

 

[Jack Bauer]

That is an arrogant statement...no offense!!!

Which part, and why? Please, break it down for me. I'm more than happy to give evidence in support of this view I once thought preposterous. I grew up Protestant Christian. I was a fundamentalist evangelical for most of my adult life, 2 decades. I've been studying history for many years since I entered college 32 years ago. So, I have much to learn and have learned much that I once thought was way overstated or lied about. The reasons for my statements are not to sound arrogant, as you put it, but to show that many people don't know nearly as much as they claim. I used to defend the Catholic beliefs after sitting through bible classes believing all Catholics are going to hell as part of my then Protestant believe stated. In fact, we never claimed to be Protestant, still don't. Then I typed in "ancient christian documents" and there began the unlearning of old anti-Catholic sentiments I held most of my life.

My statements are based on fact, not personal beliefs... when I say fact, I mean historical teachings and how those teachings are classified, not personal feelings. I hated what I was learning and ended up converting to Catholicism kicking and screaming. The overwhelming majority of Catholics don't even know the teachings of their own faith - around 80% at least from what I've read and been told by teachers. And most Protestants and other non-Catholics base their beliefs on what most of those ignorant Catholics tells other people. No wonder so many people hate us. It's hard to blame them. I surely don't. I also don't believe Protestants are doomed to the eternal fires. Who is saved is up to God. I won't say. However, I'm like most of you and seriously doubt, reject, any type of teaching that voodooians are saved. I have my doubts about Islam and frankly it doesn't stop there. Even people that claim to be Christian, often have mixed up beliefs and don't stand on solid ground, even after studying history staring them in the face. However, I won't go as far as to blame them. Only God knows a man's heart.

The arrogance you detect is my confidence in my belief. I'm far more disappointed with my Catholic brethren than I am Protestants. I feel betrayed most of the time. In fact, one of the interesting things I've uncovered is just how close many Protestants are to Catholicism. If you don't believe me, then go do the reading. Don't be afraid. These writings are from Polycarp, Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, Justin Martyr, etc. These are men that sat at the footsteps of the Apostles and their disciples. But even after you've studies them I don't expect that you'll act upon them without questioning them. It's taken me many decades to get where I am today. And I'm nowhere close to being where I wish I were.

I told my son today driving home that when we [mature adults] compare ourselves to them [teens], it sounds enormously different. However, when we compare ourselves to God [assuming one could] the difference wouldn't even be noticeable from where God is sitting. No offense intended. But I will say what is on my mind. I won't condemn others, especially knowing from where I came.

 

[Avelina777]

Which part, and why? Please, break it down for me. I'm more than happy to give evidence in support of this view I once thought preposterous. I grew up Protestant Christian. I was a fundamentalist evangelical for most of my adult life, 2 decades. I've been studying history for many years since I entered college 32 years ago. So, I have much to learn and have learned much that I once thought was way overstated or lied about. The reasons for my statements are not to sound arrogant, as you put it, but to show that many people don't know nearly as much as they claim. I used to defend the Catholic beliefs after sitting through bible classes believing all Catholics are going to hell as part of my then Protestant believe stated. In fact, we never claimed to be Protestant, still don't. Then I typed in "ancient christian documents" and there began the unlearning of old anti-Catholic sentiments I held most of my life.

My statements are based on fact, not personal beliefs... when I say fact, I mean historical teachings and how those teachings are classified, not personal feelings. I hated what I was learning and ended up converting to Catholicism kicking and screaming. The overwhelming majority of Catholics don't even know the teachings of their own faith - around 80% at least from what I've read and been told by teachers. And most Protestants and other non-Catholics base their beliefs on what most of those ignorant Catholics tells other people. No wonder so many people hate us. It's hard to blame them. I surely don't. I also don't believe Protestants are doomed to the eternal fires. Who is saved is up to God. I won't say. However, I'm like most of you and seriously doubt, reject, any type of teaching that voodooians are saved. I have my doubts about Islam and frankly it doesn't stop there. Even people that claim to be Christian, often have mixed up beliefs and don't stand on solid ground, even after studying history staring them in the face. However, I won't go as far as to blame them. Only God knows a man's heart.

The arrogance you detect is my confidence in my belief. I'm far more disappointed with my Catholic brethren than I am Protestants. I feel betrayed most of the time. In fact, one of the interesting things I've uncovered is just how close many Protestants are to Catholicism. If you don't believe me, then go do the reading. Don't be afraid. These writings are from Polycarp, Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, Justin Martyr, etc. These are men that sat at the footsteps of the Apostles and their disciples. But even after you've studies them I don't expect that you'll act upon them without questioning them. It's taken me many decades to get where I am today. And I'm nowhere close to being where I wish I were.

I told my son today driving home that when we [mature adults] compare ourselves to them [teens], it sounds enormously different. However, when we compare ourselves to God [assuming one could] the difference wouldn't even be noticeable from where God is sitting. No offense intended. But I will say what is on my mind. I won't condemn others, especially knowing from where I came.

I thought it was arrogant how you defend the pope and how many people he has following the Cahtolic religion, there are many Christians that have to defend themselves....do you see what I mean, and I am going to ignore aeneas...as that person always tries to contradict what I am saying!!

 

[Aeneas]

I thought it was arrogant how you defend the pope and how many people he has following the Cahtolic religion, there are many Christians that have to defend themselves....

How arrogant for someone to say the Pope is right. lol.

do you see what I mean, and I am going to ignore aeneas...as that person always tries to contradict what I am saying!!

"How dare anyone disagree with me! I refuse to talk to people who disagree with me!"

 

[Avelina777]

How arrogant for someone to say the Pope is right. lol.



"How dare anyone disagree with me! I refuse to talk to people who disagree with me!"

You love to trouble make and I am not into that...post what you must about me...I'm not like you at all...I am not responding to anything you have to say anymore as it will discourage me to see someone love to fight so much!!! So goodbye and God Bless....anyone else I welcome a discussion!!

 

[Aeneas]

You love to trouble make and I am not into that...post what you must about me...I'm not like you at all...I am not responding to anything you have to say anymore as it will discourage me to see someone love to fight so much!!! So goodbye and God Bless....anyone else I welcome a discussion!!

...but only if you agree with me!

 

[Avelina777]

...but only if you agree with me!

Fellow posters for the exception of this one, I rejoice in any conversation we can have!! God Bless!!!