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The Point of Ezekiel's prophecy

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by mkgal1, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I just read this on Ligonier's Ministries page:

    .....thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  2. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Yes; God's Shekinah glory left Solomons Temple and Ezekiel saw it.
    The Second Temple never had the Shekinah glory.
    Now, it is we Christians who represent the Temple on earth. 1 Corinthians 3:16

    But a new Temple will be built by the Lord's people, Zechariah 6:15, and the Glory of God will come again into it. Ezekiel 43:1-9. Verse 10 onwards, describes the details of its construction and use.
    Do NOT think that the Israelites of verse 10 refers to Jews only. We Christians ARE the Israelites of God, the Overcomers for Him and the Victorious ones.
     
  3. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Please visit my Reve 15:8 thread and the Shekinah glory in the Sanctuary located up in heaven:

    Revelation 15:18 "...NO ONE WAS ABLE TO ENTER SANCTUARY......"

    Revelation 15:8
    And the Sanctuary<3485> is being replete of smoke out of the Glory of the God and out of the power of Him.
    And no one was able to be entering into the Sanctuary until should be being finished the seven blows/stripes of the seven Messengers
    ========================
    The earthly 1st century Temple/Sanctuary being measured pre70ad:

    Revelation 11:

    1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
    2 and the Court/fold<833>[water lavar/Altar of Sacrifice], without of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side<1854>, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the nations and the holy City they shall be trampling<3961> forty two months.

    Luke 21:24
    “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.
    And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”
    ==============================
    Revelation 3:12 He who is overcoming -- I will make him a pillar in the Sanctuary of my God, and without he may not go any more, and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the City of my God, the new Jerusalem, that doth come down out of the heaven from my God -- also my new name.
    Revelation 11:19 And opened was the Sanctuary of God in the heaven, and there was seen the ark of His covenant in His sanctuary, and there did come lightnings, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail.
    ==================================
    Exodus 40:34
    Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
    1 Kings 8:10

    And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the LORD,
    2 Chronicles 5:14

    So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.
    ==================================

    Studies In The Scriptures - Tabernacle Shadows - Chapter 1
    The Camp--The Gate--
    The Court--The Bronze Altar--The Water Laver
    The Tabernacle--
    The First Veil--
    The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--
    The Second Veil
    The Mercy Seat and Ark--
    The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019 at 2:39 PM
  4. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Great info and post mk.......
    Jerem 3 and Reve 11 come to mind:

    Jeremiah 3:16
    “Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD, “that they will say no more, The Ark of the Covenant of the LORD.'
    It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore.

    Hebrews 9:4
    which had the golden censer and the Ark of the Covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the Tablets of the Covenant;

    Revelation 11:19

    And was opened the Sanctuary of the God in the heaven and was seen the Ark of the Covenant of Him in the Sanctuary of Him
    and became lightnings and voices/sounds and thunders and quaking and great hail.
    =========================
    A few threads on the AofC:

    Will the Ark ever be found?/
    Ark of the Covenant Found Before The End of Days?

     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019 at 2:56 PM
  5. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I absolutely agree! And you bring out an important point when you posted that the Second Temple never had the Shekinah glory.

    A new Temple WAS built (and you just described it - Jesus was that temple, the BRANCH described in Zechariah).

    To place Zechariah in context - it was written from 520-518 BC (during which, the Second Temple was being built).

    Timeline:

    586 BCE - Babylonian Forces Destroy Jerusalem and Demolish First Temple
    • Persian Period (539-322 BCE)
      • 539 BCE - Persian Ruler Cyrus the Great Conquers Babylonian Empire, Including Jerusalem
      • 516 BCE - Cyrus Permits Jews in Bablyonian Exile to Return to Jerusalem; Second Temple Built
      • 445-425 BCE - Nehemiah the Prophet Rebuilds the Walls of Jerusalem; City Confined to Eastern Hill
      ~ Timeline for the History of Jerusalem (4500 BCE-Present)



      Zechariah 6:11-15
      ~ Take silver and gold and make a crown.
      Place it on the head of the high priest Joshua, Jehozadak’s son.
      Say to him,
      “The Lord of heavenly forces proclaims:
      Here is a man.
      His name is Branch, and he will branch out from his place;
      he will build the Lord’s temple.
      He will build the Lord’s temple.
      He will be majestic;
      he will sit and rule on his throne.
      There will be a priest on his throne,
      and the two of them will share a peaceable plan
      .
      The crown will be a memorial in the Lord’s temple
      for Helem, Tobijah, Jedaiah, and for Hen, Zephaniah’s son.
      People from far away will come and build the Lord’s temple
      so you might know that the Lord of heavenly forces has sent me to you.
      It will happen if you truly obey the voice of the Lord your God.”





      John 2:19
      ~ Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019 at 3:07 PM
  6. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Yes; Spiritually, as we are during this Church age.
    But there has to be a new physical Temple for the AC to desecrate. 2 Thess 2:4 and John measures it in Revelation 11:1.
    Denying the truth of a new Temple , is to ignore the truth of many prophesies.
     
  7. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    There WAS a physical second temple (Herod's) that was desecrated in several ways, but this is likely to be the fulfillment of 2 Thess 2:4:

    Josephus says that Titus entered the Holy of Holies with his generals in A.D. 70. 1 Shortly thereafter, Titus was worshipped in the Temple in A.D. 70 as was customary of someone declared imperator in fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:4: “He sets Himself up in God’s Temple proclaiming Himself to be God.” Josephus writes, “And now the Romans . . . brought their ensigns to the temple and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus imperator.”2 A metallic image of Vespasian and Titus was also worshipped at that time. The image of Vespasian and Titus was found on the ensign called the numina legionum which was a large coin-shaped bust or image of the emperor and his favorites (i.e. Titus) held aloft on a pole. ~ Source
    Likewise - denying the completed fulfillment of God's prophecies is to deny His sovereignty and power (in my opinion :) ).
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019 at 4:07 PM
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  8. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    keras.
    I have already shown you it is the 1st century Sanctuary being measured..

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

    Matthew 24:1
    And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
    And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.
    Mark 13:1

    And He going forth out of the Temple,
    Luke 21:5
    and of some saying concerning the Temple,

    Luke 21:24
    “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.
    And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”

    The Temple is not being measured here!!!!! Only the Sanctuary within it.
    Study on this.........

    Revelation 11:
    1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it

    The court/fold is outside the Sanctuary and contained the court of the Priests, the water laver and altar of Sacrifice.
    All of this is shown being cast outside of the Temple.


    2 and the Court/fold<833>[water lavar/Altar of Sacrifice/court of Priests], without of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side<1854>, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the nations and the holy City they shall be trampling<3961> forty two months.
    ============================================
    The word #833 is also associated with the High Priest in these 2 verses:

    Matthew 26:3
    Then were gathered together the Chief-priests and the Scribes, and the Elders of the people to the court/fold<833> of the Chief-priest who was called Caiaphas [Revelation 11:2]

    Mark 14:54
    and the Peter from afar follows to him till within into the court/fold<833> of the Chief-priest and he was together-sitting with the officers and warming to the light
     
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  9. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    And I have already rejected that historically unsustainable notion.
    Revelation 11:1-13
    When did the 42 months take place?
    Where and who were the 2 Witnesses?
    There has been no earthquake in Jerusalem that killed 7000 people yet.

    Your preterist theory is false, Bible prophecy will come to pass; all in God's good timing.
     
  10. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    One answer to that is from this explanation:

    Vespasian and Titus’ military campaign lasted 42 months during which “foreign” rebels overran and seized control of Jerusalem, we can see how these “Gentiles” “trampled the Holy City” for “42 months.” ~ Source
    One possible theory from the same source mentioned above: "The Fact that the Two Witnesses are depicted as Two Lampstands and Two Olive Trees also points to Christ Who is the Sole Embodiment of the Church, the Body of Christ."

    Where do you see that's necessary to consider these prophecies fulfilled?
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019 at 1:30 PM
  11. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Actually the Gentiles have trampled the Temple mount for nearly 2000 years.
    But during the final 42 months before Jesus Returns, the Anti-Christ and his cohorts will do that to the new Temple in Jerusalem.
    Jesus and the Body of the Church are as ONE.
    Your preterist source makes an anomaly, says there is 2 metaphors of pairs, that make the 'sole embodiment of the Church. Very confusing!
    What I see as necessary, is to read and understand God's plan for His people in the last days.
    The prophecy of Revelation 11:13, is a plainly stated factual event that remains to be fulfilled. Thinking otherwise, is to denigrate the Bible and it discredits you.
     
  12. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    You'd asked about when the 42 months took place and I gave you an answer (Vespasian and Titus’ military campaign lasted 42 months during which “foreign” rebels overran and seized control of Jerusalem, we can see how these “Gentiles” “trampled the Holy City” for “42 months.” ) - and you dismiss it with this? It's hardly "the Temple mount" with no more of Herod's Temple left (I realize that's the modern term that's used - but it's hardly appropriate in context, IMO).

    There's NO reason for a third Temple (and, certainly, Jesus won't have a thing to do with such a grievous offense to His work on the cross).
     
  13. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    F. W. Farrar answers that question with this:

    Personally, I haven't arrived at an opinion. There are multiple theories on who the two were. Some say they were James and Peter.....others believe they were unnamed prophets (as just a couple of examples). I do believe they were actual people and not metaphors (right now, anyway). I AM convinced, if they were actual people, then they were prophesying just prior to John's receiving of the Revelation (based on the grammar) and I believe they died in the Jewish Revolts (or at least at that time). The fact these two are called witnesses (v. 3) and prophets (v. 10) goes along with previous use of those terms applying to actual humans. Witnesses everywhere elsewhere in Revelation are individual humans (1:2,5; 3:14; 20:4) as are prophets (10:7; 11:18; 16:6,13; 18:20,24; 19:20; 20:10; 22:6,9). Likewise, the image of “two olive trees” (v. 4) comes from Zechariah 4:14 and refers to two literal humans. The two witnesses are also likened to Elijah and Moses in verses 5-6, people who were also human prophets.​
     
  14. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    There will be a new Temple, many prophesies prove this. Isaiah 56:1-8, 2 Thess 2:4, Rev 11:1, Ezekiel 43:1-27, +
    But the main proof, is the God is unchanging, Malachi 3:6. He wanted an earthly Temple twice before and He will have one in the end times.
    This is also proved by Revelation 21-22, where when God comes to dwell with Mankind on earth, a Temple will be no longer required then. It is before then!

    So your belief is wrong. What else do you believe that is error?
     
  15. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    .
    As if this would invite a discussion.
     
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