The place of 'Good Works' in the Christian life.

[Thatgirloncfforums]

What is the Roman Catholic, Eastern and Oriental Orthodox position on good works; do they contribute to our right standing before God and our ultimate salvation?

Thanks.

 

[HTacianas]

What is the Roman Catholic, Eastern and Oriental Orthodox position on good works; do they contribute to our right standing before God and our ultimate salvation?

Thanks.

The answer to your question is yes. It is best summed up that we enter into salvation by faith alone and it is our works that keep us there. As the writer to the Romans put it:

Rom 2:6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

Rom 2:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Rom 2:8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

 

[HTacianas]

If works keeps us saved, how do you reconcile "Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?" (Galatians 3:3).

The Galatians were reverting back to the "works of the law", i.e., the Jewish law. All those things that have never been part of Christianity.

 

[fhansen]

In Catholicism, works do not justify us; only God can do that. But once justified, by faith, now with Gods seed in us, one must work out their salvation together with He who works in us (Phil 2), by the Spirit, with the grace received, making it a cooperative effort. Consider the Parable of the Talents. The more given, in terms of grace, time, opportunity, knowledge, gifts of the Spirit, etc, the more that would be expected, with God knowing the heart as only He does and judging accordingly.

It’s all grace, both faith and these works. Examples of the criteria for judgment include obeying the commandments (Matt 19:17), those things done for “the least of these” (Matt 25), doing good, (Rom 2:7), putting to death the deeds of the flesh (Rom 8:12-13), works prepared for us in advance (Eph 2:10), being holy, (Heb 12:14). These are all now based on love, the nature of God whose image we’re to be transformed into, the love that the Spirit pours into our hearts (Rom 5:5), and so the church, quoting a 16th century believer, sums it up with,
“At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love.”

This is what faith, by establishing fellowship with God, should lead to. So the most important New Covenant prophecy:
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.”
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.” Jer 31:33-34

Then:
“To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.” Rom 2:7

“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom 2:13

“But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.” Rom 3:21

“But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.” Rom 6:21

“And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” Rom 8:4

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” Rom 8:12-13

“Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” Rom 13:10

And that love, a work of God’s in us, is both a gift, and, in order to be love, also necessarily a human choice.

 

[fhansen]

If works keeps us saved, how do you reconcile "Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?" (Galatians 3:3).

Because the works of a justified man are works of the Spirit, works of grace, not works of the law, given us by Christ (Eph 2:10). So, for example,

“To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.” Rom 2:7

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” Rom 8:12-13

The Galatians thought that, by removing a little piece of flesh from the body, they would be holy in Gods eyes, and Paul battled such legalism.

 

[fhansen]

You doing the standard split of the Law into ceremonial and moral?

In Matt 19, where Jesus tells the rich young man that he must keep the commandments to enter life, He lists the Ten Commandments. In Rom 7, where Paul tells us that the law is right: holy, spiritual, and good, he names the Ten Commandments. In Rom 13, where Paul tells us that love fulfills the law, he references the Ten Commandments.

The mainline churches have always held that obedience of the Ten Commandments is still necessary.

 

[Guojing]

In Matt 19, where Jesus tells the rich young man that he must keep the commandments to enter life, He lists the Ten Commandments. In Rom 7, where Paul tells us that the law is right: holy, spiritual, and good, he names the Ten Commandments. In Rom 13, where Paul tells us that love fulfills the law, he references the Ten Commandments.

The mainline churches have always held that obedience of the Ten Commandments is still necessary.

Including the Sabbath?

 

[fhansen]

Including the Sabbath?

Including the sabbath in the new way it’s kept, yes.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Including the Sabbath?

We keep the 8th day Sabbath not the 7th day, as a feast day, not as an obligation. We are no longer under the jurisdiction of the OT Law.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

In Matt 19, where Jesus tells the rich young man that he must keep the commandments to enter life, He lists the Ten Commandments. In Rom 7, where Paul tells us that the law is right: holy, spiritual, and good, he names the Ten Commandments. In Rom 13, where Paul tells us that love fulfills the law, he references the Ten Commandments.

The mainline churches have always held that obedience of the Ten Commandments is still necessary.

Necessary for what?

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Please be aware that this is Traditional Theology and the OP is asking for Catholic, EO and OO responses.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

The Galatians were reverting back to the "works of the law", i.e., the Jewish law. All those things that have never been part of Christianity.

The Jewish Law includes the Ten Commandments.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

This is from Luther (On Christian Liberty)
Your one care should be that faith may increase, whether it be trained by works or by sufferings. Give your gifts freely and for nothing, that others may profit by them and fare well because of you and your goodness. In this way you shall be truly good and a Christian.

 

[fhansen]

Necessary for what?

Necessary for salvation. Paul didn’t deny the necessity of a person to be righteous; He simply reported the only right way to obtain that righteousness, with God, under grace, not by being under the law. A person under grace doesn’t even need to hear the law in order to fulfill it.
“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom 2:13

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

It's not hard to keep your hands clean, or celebrate the 7th day Sabbath. What's difficult is never having a lustful thought or a hateful intention. It is the moral law as covenant that Christ has redeemed us from. The Jews would not have made such a sharp distinction between ceremonial and moral.

“To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.” Rom 2:7

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” Rom 8:12-13

The Galatians thought that, by removing a little piece of flesh from the body, they would be holy in Gods eyes, and Paul battled such legalism.

If we want to call it that, yes.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

So, essentially, the law is still a part of the covenant with God, it's just now we have the Spirit's help?

Necessary for salvation. Paul didn’t deny the necessity of a person to be righteous; He simply reported the only right way to obtain that righteousness, with God, under grace, not by being under the law. A person under grace doesn’t even need to hear the law in order to fulfill it.
“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom 2:13

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

In Matt 19, where Jesus tells the rich young man that he must keep the commandments to enter life, He lists the Ten Commandments. In Rom 7, where Paul tells us that the law is right: holy, spiritual, and good, he names the Ten Commandments. In Rom 13, where Paul tells us that love fulfills the law, he references the Ten Commandments.

Yes and do you remember what Paul says about himself?

The mainline churches have always held that obedience of the Ten Commandments is still necessary.

The replies I have received this far makes me think that EO and Catholics have a linear view of salvation. Faith then works, this then that. That's not how Lutheranism views the matter. I'll speak more on this later, I have to go.

 

[fhansen]

The Jewish Law includes the Ten Commandments.

A work of the law is simply an external act, that “looks like” righteousness but which is totally meaningless in and of itself. If I refrain from murder but still have anger in my heart I’m still a murderer. If I have lust in my heart but abstain from adultery I’m still an adulterer. Jesus wants us changed first of all, on the inside, and that’s a matter of grace; properly understood it’s grace producing the love that does no harm to neighbor, fulfilling the law by its nature.
“Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.” Matt 23:26

 

[fhansen]

Yes and do you remember what Paul says about himself?

He said he was the worst of sinners, even though he excelled at the law as a Pharisee. He needed something more; he needed Christ,
“…not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.” Phil 3:9

 

[fhansen]

So, essentially, the law is still a part of the covenant with God, it's just now we have the Spirit's help?

The law is not the problem; we are.
“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” Rom 8:12-13

Man doesn’t need the law first of all; man needs God first of all, a union with Him ultimately meant to be based on love.

“Apart from Me you can do nothing”. John 15:5

“I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.” Phil 4:13