The physical descendants of the ancient nation of Israel.

[Ligurian]

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

What it means is persons, when they include in the name of the Lord to their proclamations on His behalf , it is not generated on their own accord.

I don't see anyone here making proclamations on His behalf using "in the name of the Lord".

The accusation of "private interpretation" is one of the most abused phrases used on this forum.

Matthew 24:11-12 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Seems like the job of the false prophet is to promote lawlessness.

 

[Ligurian]

And I don't care.
Why be bothered with the origins of any people group?

The issue of who is the true Israel descendants, is not for us to understand; it is God's secret.
But in fact, we do know who are God's faithful people, they are those who believe in Him, have accepted the Atonement of Jesus and who keep the Commandments.
The Overcomers for His, as seen in each of the seven Church's of Revelation 2 to 3.


Regarding the ancient history of Britain

Since you don't care what I think about origins, I was only talking near you.
Don't let that hurt your feelings.

Origins do matter, since we're asked to know what's the assembly of Satan which does blasphemy and wants us to bow down to them, Revelation 2:9 Revelation 3:9, because they're connected to the devil casting some of us into prison. Kinda wanna avoid those people, doncha think?

 

[jgr]

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

What it means is persons, when they include in the name of the Lord to their proclamations on His behalf , it is not generated on their own accord.

I don't see anyone here making proclamations on His behalf using "in the name of the Lord".

The accusation of "private interpretation" is one of the most abused phrases used on this forum.

It doesn't need to include "in the name of the Lord" to constitute a private interpretation.

 

[Guojing]

But it does! To say we Christians are not the Spiritual descendants of Abraham, the Overcomers for God; His Israelites, is a direct rejection of scripture. Galatians 3:26-29, +

The Jewish State of Israel is the fulfilment of the budding of the fig tree prophecy of Jesus. Matthew 24:32
Note how it is that they bear no fruit. This fact fits with Matthew 21:43.

The Sixth Seal Day of the Lords fiery wrath, is the fulfilment of over 100 prophesies of how the Lord will make His enemies His footstool.
It will be triggered by an attempted attack by on Israel by Iran, using nukes. The Lord will wipe them all out, including the apostate and Jesus rejection Israelis. Psalms 83, Psalms 7:12-16, Zephaniah 1, Amos 1 and Amos 2:1-5
Note; how Amos 2:6-16, plus the rest of Amos; refers to the House of Israel, who will be punished, but not destroyed, as Judah virtually will be.

You cannot understand the logic of my argument is it?

Would you call those sons of Abraham in Genesis 25:2, Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah, as Israelites as well?

Did they descend from Jacob?

 

[keras]

Origins do matter,

Actually; to God- racial origins do not matter. Read and understand Ephesians 2:11-18
In ancient times, God did have a people who He helped. But they always have allowed other people to join them and today the faithful Christian peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language are the Israelites of God. Pure descent is practically impossible after 50 generations, so the reality is that most, if not all; will be people grafted into the tree of life; that is Jesus. Including those who claim to be Jews. Romans 11:23

Any ideas that a nation that has the effrontery to claim they are Israel, have any rights or special privilege's, is wrong and actually conflicts with what Bible Prophecy tells us.

 

[Douggg]

It doesn't need to include "in the name of the Lord" to constitute a private interpretation.

But that is what is implied regarding prophecies found in the scriptures.

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Ligurian]

Actually; to God- racial origins do not matter. Read and understand Ephesians 2:11-18
In ancient times, God did have a people who He helped. But they always have allowed other people to join them and today the faithful Christian peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language are the Israelites of God. Pure descent is practically impossible after 50 generations, so the reality is that most, if not all; will be people grafted into the tree of life; that is Jesus. Including those who claim to be Jews. Romans 11:23

Any ideas that a nation that has the effrontery to claim they are Israel, have any rights or special privilege's, is wrong and actually conflicts with what Bible Prophecy tells us.

Actually, to Paul's gospel, racial origins don't matter. I'm pretty sure this is where replacement theology started from, and maybe the Identity people afterwards.


I don't follow that gospel, I follow this Gospel of the Kingdom:
Matthew 4:23 Matthew 10:6-7 Matthew 24:14 Matthew 26:13 Revelation 7:4

Jeremias 30:5 Thus said the Lord: Ye shall hear a sound of fear, there is fear, and there is not peace. 6 Enquire, and see if a male has born a child? and ask concerning the fear, wherein they shall hold their loins, and look for safety: for I have seen every man, and his hands are on his loins; their faces are turned to paleness. 7 For that day is great, and there is not such another; and it is a time of straitness to Jacob; but he shall be saved out of it. 8 In that day, said the Lord, I will break the yoke off their neck, and will burst their bonds, and they shall no longer serve strangers: 9 but they shall serve the Lord their God; and I will raise up to them David their king.LXX

Osee says the house of Israel was called not my people and not pitied, but in the same place that was said to them, they would be called the sons of God. This prophecy is fulfilled by Jesus going to Galilee of the Gentiles to a people who sat in darkness, and teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom which to them is a great light. When Jesus made Disciples there, they became the sons of God. Peter quotes that verse and applies it to the dispersion to whom he was teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom. The word of the Lord abides forever, says Peter. And Jesus says His word will never pass away.

 

[jgr]

But that is what is implied regarding prophecies found in the scriptures.

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Nothing to do with "implied". There are no less than two essential benchmark tests of an interpretation:

1. Does it harmonize with other Scripture?
2. Does it harmonize with the orthodox doctrine of the historical true Church?

There is much on this forum which fails one or both of these tests, thus qualifying as private interpretation.

 

[Douggg]

Nothing to do with "implied". There are no less than two essential benchmark tests of an interpretation:

1. Does it harmonize with other Scripture?
2. Does it harmonize with the orthodox doctrine of the historical true Church?

There is much on this forum which fails one or both of these tests, thus qualifying as private interpretation.

Look at what the verse(s) are talking about. They are talking about scriptural prophecy.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Alright then, you believe your opinion is a fact.

No, I just very strongly believe that my opinion is true. Just as is the case for you with some of your opinions. Do you think it's wrong to be very confident about an opinion being true? I don't.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Circumcision is physical.

Is that like saying spiritual physical?

Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Are you saying that you think "the circumcision made without hands", which Paul called "the circumcision of Christ", is physical?

 

[Guojing]

No, I just very strongly believe that my opinion is true. Just as is the case for you with some of your opinions. Do you think it's wrong to be very confident about an opinion being true? I don't.

If someone were to ask me whether I think there is a possibility that I might have misinterpret the scriptures, I will always say yes.

After all, my opinions are not facts, no matter how strongly I believe them to be true.

 

[Timtofly]

Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Are you saying that you think "the circumcision made without hands", which Paul called "the circumcision of Christ", is physical?

Everything made is physical. John 1:3

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

2 Corinthians 5:1

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Paul is making a distinction between Adam's corruptible flesh, which is biologically the result of two humans. The outward circumcision deals with that body. The inward circumcision is the soul no longer bound to our desires, but that of the Holy Spirit. The incorruptible body, is made by God, not Adam's flesh, but it is still made as part of physical Creation. It is free of sin and the sin nature, so is already circumcised, as in separated to God.

Sin causes the separation between what is spiritual and physical. Remove that barrier, and it is still one single creation. Sin itself is not a created "thing". Sin is not "spiritual" either. Sin is the effect of disobedience.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Everything made is physical. John 1:3

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

2 Corinthians 5:1

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Paul is making a distinction between Adam's corruptible flesh, which is biologically the result of two humans. The outward circumcision deals with that body. The inward circumcision is the soul no longer bound to our desires, but that of the Holy Spirit. The incorruptible body, is made by God, not Adam's flesh, but it is still made as part of physical Creation. It is free of sin and the sin nature, so is already circumcised, as in separated to God.

Sin causes the separation between what is spiritual and physical. Remove that barrier, and it is still one single creation. Sin itself is not a created "thing". Sin is not "spiritual" either. Sin is the effect of disobedience.

Are you able to give a straightforward answer? You didn't answer my question at all. Again...

Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Are you saying that you think "the circumcision made without hands", which Paul called "the circumcision of Christ", is physical? Yes or no. If so, how can a circumcision "made without hands" be physical?

You have to be very lacking in spiritual discernment to not understand that this passage is talking about a spiritual circumcision that occurs within a person which is in contrast to physical circumcision.

 

[Douggg]

Are you saying that you think "the circumcision made without hands", which Paul called "the circumcision of Christ", is physical? Yes or no. If so, how can a circumcision "made without hands" be physical?

It is metaphorical of a physical act.

The theme in Colossians 2 is "in him". "in Christ"

 

[Timtofly]

Are you able to give a straightforward answer? You didn't answer my question at all. Again...

Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Are you saying that you think "the circumcision made without hands", which Paul called "the circumcision of Christ", is physical? Yes or no. If so, how can a circumcision "made without hands" be physical?

You have to be very lacking in spiritual discernment to not understand that this passage is talking about a spiritual circumcision that occurs within a person which is in contrast to physical circumcision.

Yes, I am saying that when it comes to an inward circumcision it is still physical. It is cutting off the physical and denying this flesh the physical wants and desires. You are not, nor ever will be, while in this physical body a part of your spiritual self. Not even those currently in Paradise are part of their spiritual self. They are only soul and a permanent incorruptible physical body. A physical body not made by physical hands, but still a physical body. They do not need the inward physical circumcision. They do not have corruptible bodies their soul has to be circumcised from.

"in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:"

The last part of the verse even calls it the putting off of the body. Is this some spiritual body that has sins, or the physical body?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

It is metaphorical of a physical act.

The theme in Colossians 2 is "in him". "in Christ"

Do you understand that Colossians 2:11 applies to all Christians? In what way are all Christians metaphorically circumcised with the circumcision "made without hands" which is "the circumcision of Christ"? What physical act does a metaphorical circumcision represent?

 

[Douggg]

Do you understand that Colossians 2:11 applies to all Christians? In what way are all Christians metaphorically circumcised with the circumcision "made without hands" which is "the circumcision of Christ"? What physical act does a metaphorical circumcision represent?

Yes, in regards to the question of applying to all Christians.

The circumcision of Christ is metaphorically the removal of our sins as the removal of flesh is in the physical circumcision.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Yes, in regards to the question of applying to all Christians.

The circumcision of Christ is metaphorically the removal of our sins as the removal of flesh is in the physical circumcision.

So, you're saying it's a metaphorical circumcision rather than a physical circumcision, right? Not sure why you have an issue with the term "spiritual circumcision" when at the same time you acknowledge that it's not a physical circumcision, but whatever.

Anyway, I believe Paul is talking about the same metaphorical circumcision in Romans 2:29 as he wrote about in Colossians 2:11 and we know that this metaphorical circumcision applies to all believers, so that's why I interpret Romans 2:28-29 the way I do.

 

[FredVB]

Mystery Babylon would fall ahead of the other foretold scenarios coming to pass, the signs of this are around with the crises coming from destructiveness to the earth from our civilization that God totally hates, Revelation 11:18. Believers remaining there should not still, even while there are those who will have to be called out. They should all be getting out right away now. When there is all that collapse, the one who in prophecy is described as a beast will lead many who will follow faithfully with his promise to rebuild civilization from what yet remains, and this will be godless while all follow him no matter what. And with many working with him he will make this contact with the people of Israel in their land, which seems to be beneficial to them, but he will lead many against them to take that land. Christ will return and save those of Israel, who all call on him then, and overcome that one leading the many as a beast and all the rest of them.