The physical descendants of the ancient nation of Israel.

Timtofly

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where they go to live in heaven while ethnic Israel goes thru Tribulation.
This is not the point. The church is no longer necessary on earth. Adam's family has been returned to the Garden, Paradise. The temple of God for all time. No temple even needed in the New Jerusalem.

The Tribulation is the gathering of those on earth after the church is gone, known as the firstfruits of the Millennium, and New Earth.
 
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Guojing

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The point is that Abraham is not Israel. You are making claims based on Abraham, not Israel.

Good point, when Galatians 3 tells us that the Body of Christ is also the seed of Abraham, that does not imply that we are also the seed of Jacob.

So the Body of Christ is not Israel, in any way.
 
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Guojing

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When Paul wrote to Christians in Rome, some of whom were Jews, he revealed the existence of two Israel's in one sentence while rejecting one of them as such: "Not all the ones of Israel are Israel..." Romans 9:6
There you have it; two distinct Israel's in one statement. The first represents the Israelites by blood alone, but Paul says this Israel is not Israel at all! Clearly, then, he calls the one, "Israel," whom he believes is not Israel, which can only mean he retains the use of the term only to identify the bloodline of Abraham, not to define it. He goes on to say, "...nor because they are the descendants of Abraham are they all his children."
"It is not [Abraham's] children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise..... made to Abraham; the faithful believers in Jesus. Romans 9:8

This proves that Christians are now the only Israel of God.

How about this alternative interpretation of Romans 9:6?

True Israel/Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) refers to the little flock out of the nation Israel that believe, those that are pastored by James the brother of Jesus, at the end of Acts.

They continue to stay zealous to the Law of Moses, even after they believed in Christ as their Messiah (Acts 21:18-25, James 2:24-26, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 3:7).

The rest of the nation Israel has fallen in disbelief (Acts 7:51, Romans 11:1-5)

As a result of the fall of the nation of Israel, salvation without the Law of Moses (Romans 4:5), is now open to everyone, Jew and gentiles, thru Paul's gospel of grace (Romans 11:11).

All Jews and gentiles who thus believe in Paul's gospel, found in 1 Cor 15:1-4, are now in the Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew nor gentile.

But the Body of Christ is not the same as the little flock. They are 2 separate groups of believers.

This would help Biblewriter in this thread.
 
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keras

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The term "spiritual Israelite" does not occur in the entire Bible for a reason. That is a concept that is simply not taught in scripture.
It doesn't have to and it is taught in scripture, in Galatians 6:14-16
An Israelite is literally an Overcomer for God, as Jacob was.

With Galatians 6:14-16, do not make the mistake of of thinking the
'and' [kai], in verse 16 denotes that Paul means two peoples. This idea violates the fact of verses 14-15 being only about Christians.
 
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Guojing

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It doesn't have to and it is taught in scripture, in Galatians 6:14-16
An Israelite is literally an Overcomer for God, as Jacob was.

With Galatians 6:14-16, do not make the mistake of of thinking the
'and' [kai], in verse 16 denotes that Paul means two peoples. This idea violates the fact of verses 14-15 being only about Christians.

James the brother of Jesus, and all the Jews who believed in Jesus as their Messiah, still believe in the necessity of physical circumcision (Acts 21:21)

So whatever Paul was stating in Galatians 6:15, could not be referring to them. This was also the arrangement agreed at Galatians 2:7-9
 
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keras

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This is not the point. The church is no longer necessary on earth. Adam's family has been returned to the Garden, Paradise. The temple of God for all time. No temple even needed in the New Jerusalem.

The Tribulation is the gathering of those on earth after the church is gone, known as the firstfruits of the Millennium, and New Earth.
This I totally disagree with.
The Church, God's holy people never leave the earth. Why should we? We are here to do his work and skiving off is never an option.
God's people ARE seen on earth during the Great Trib. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7
Good point, when Galatians 3 tells us that the Body of Christ is also the seed of Abraham, that does not imply that we are also the seed of Jacob.
But we Christians ARE the followers of the 'seed' of Abraham, grafted into the Tree of Life that is Jesus.
All Jews and gentiles who thus believe in Paul's gospel, found in 1 Cor 15:1-4, are now in the Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew nor gentile.

But the Body of Christ is not the same as the little flock. They are 2 separate groups of believers.
This idea is oxymoronic. A scriptural impossibility.

Why is it so hard for people to see what the Bible tells us, is the destiny of the Christian peoples?
 
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Guojing

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This idea is oxymoronic. A scriptural impossibility.

James, and all the Jews who believed in Christ, are zealous for the Law (Acts 21:18-24)

But James excused the Body of Christ from the requirements of the Law (Acts 21:25)

Scripture already distinguished them.
 
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keras

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James the brother of Jesus, and all the Jews who believed in Jesus as their Messiah, still believe in the necessity of physical circumcision (Acts 21:21)

So whatever Paul was stating in Galatians 6:15, could not be referring to them. This was also the arrangement agreed at Galatians 2:7-9
James was wrong and Jesus and Paul have corrected this error. Colossians 3:11, +

Guojing, your whole contention of a Jewish redemption and the holy Land being their possession, is not what the Prophets tell us.
What I posted in Ezekiel 11 and as prophesied in many other verses, it will be the House of Israel, the Lords faithful Christians, who will occupy all of the holy Land. It is our destiny and our great privilege.
 
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Guojing

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James was wrong and Jesus and Paul have corrected this error. Colossians 3:11, +

Oh, you are saying James shouldn't have said what he said in Acts 21:21-25?

I see, no wonder you are able to conclude that the Israel of God in Galatians 6:16 is actually referring to us.
 
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Douggg

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James was wrong and Jesus and Paul have corrected this error. Colossians 3:11, +

Guojing, your whole contention of a Jewish redemption and the holy Land being their possession, is not what the Prophets tell us.
What I posted in Ezekiel 11 and as prophesied in many other verses, it will be the House of Israel, the Lords faithful Christians, who will occupy all of the holy Land. It is our destiny and our great privilege.
You are going to fit 2.5 billion Christians into the land of Israel?

Where's the food, water, electricity, housing going to come from - for 2.5 billion Christians?
 
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jgr

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The term "spiritual Israelite" does not occur in the entire Bible for a reason. That is a concept that is simply not taught in scripture.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

An "inward Jew" is a spiritual Jew.

A spiritual Jew is a spiritual Israelite.

Concept taught.
 
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Guojing

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The translation you are using here wrests the Greek of this statement. What the Greek text og Galatians 6:16 actually says is: "And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God." Galatians 6:16 The second and in this verse is plainly there in the Greek text, as the Greek word "kai," which occurs twice in the Greek text of this sentence.
the word "and" (kai) before the words "the Israel of God," plainly differentiates "the Israel of God" from "as many as walk according to this rule." So this scripture is actually saying the very opposite of what you imaine it says. It is making "the Israel of God" a different group from "as many as walk according to this rule."

So, not only does the term "spiritual Israel" not occur anywhere in the entire Bible, neither is that concept taught in the Bible

Good point, there was always a little flock of Israelites who believe in Jesus, and were still zealous for the Law of Moses, as stated in Acts 21:18-25 and Romans 11:1-5.

That little flock is the Israel of God that Paul was referring to in Galatians 6:16.
 
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Timtofly

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But the Body of Christ is not the same as the little flock. They are 2 separate groups of believers.

This would help Biblewriter in this thread.
No, this does not help any one. Christ is the Second Adam. The body of Christ is all the redeemed from Adam's offspring. The church is the new Adam. Adam was the only son of God, whose offspring lived after the Flood, via Noah.

Abraham is a subset of the church.

Israel is a subset of Abraham. Abraham's family blessed the world. Even Israel was broken down and scattered throughout the world, to bless the world. That is it.

After the Second Coming, there is a rebirth of National Israel. For one, 144k are sealed. The sheep are harvested. That is God preparing for the Millennium. This is what the Second Coming is about. The church is complete at the Second Coming. Adam's family complete in Paradise, the Garden.

Abraham's family through David, were wrapped up at the Cross. Abraham's bosom was transfered to Paradise. The rest were dead in their sins, unless they repented and became the NT church. Today it is just the dead being given new life in Christ. Nothing special about any one. Except God has 144k chosen, and perhaps thousands if not millions of sheep pertaining to what the dead bones of Israel refer to. But all the rest of the dead do not live again, until they stand before the GWT. The goats are placed in Death, until the GWT.

In the 4th Seal we are introduced to Death, and we see his companion is sheol. Here is the difference. Sheol people still found in the Lamb's book of life. Death, after the 7th Seal is opened, souls are removed from the book of life, and placed into Death. Even during the Millennium disobedience to the rule of Christ is immediate Death. No one goes to sheol after the 7th Seal.

Does sheol represent a second chance? Calvinist would say no, because they were never found in the Lamb's book of life. If that is the case why is the Lamb's book of life opened at the GWT? If their names are not there, it will do them no good to find their name there. It is the point they themselves will remove their name. Now they can still remain there, if they so choose. They will know the truth of their choice and be without excuse. God placed everyone in the Lamb's book of life. The Atonement covered all. The book was sealed. It is still sealed, until after the Second Coming. Only then can names be removed.

The GWT is the last time and place, after earth has passed, for names to be removed. That is why the Lamb's book of life is there and opened. I do not see it as a second chance for redemption. For some it may be their first chance, only God knows their heart. It is the last chance to say no. If they said no when life is good, they are twice as likely to say no when life is bad in sheol. I do not see torment as a means of changing one's mind. The rich man never asked for a second chance on good behavior. He asked for help from Lazarus, and even wanted Lazarus to do all the work of returning to life, and attempting to keep his brothers out of sheol. No remorse for himself being there. A mind made up will not be easily changed, even after thousands of years in sheol and even standing before God Himself.
 
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jgr

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Good point, there was always a little flock of Israelites who believe in Jesus, and were still zealous for the Law of Moses, as stated in Acts 21:18-25 and Romans 11:1-5.

That little flock is the Israel of God that Paul was referring to in Galatians 6:16.

Seems that you missed this.

It's what the historic true Christian Church has always believed.

So don't miss it.
 
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Douggg

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Romans 2
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly...

Do you think that there is a difference between a Jew "which is one inwardly" and an "inward Jew"?


28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh;

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly...

The "he" is referring to "a Jew".

______________________________________________________________

28 For a Jew is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh;

29 But a Jew is a Jew, which is one inwardly...



I will put it into words you can understand. Paul was saying there is more to being a Jew than being circumcised.

__________________________________________________

Being a Christian is better than being a Jew or a Gentile. Be happy in that.
 
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jgr

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28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh;

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly...

The "he" is referring to "a Jew".

______________________________________________________________

28 For a Jew is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh;

29 But a Jew is a Jew, which is one inwardly...



I will put it into words you can understand. Paul was saying there is more to being a Jew than being circumcised.

__________________________________________________

Being a Christian is better than being a Jew or a Gentile. Be happy in that.

The "he" is referring to "a Jew, which is one inwardly".

Paul is saying that a Jew who is only circumcised outwardly, is not a Jew at all.

Paul is saying that only a Jew who is circumcised inwardly, is a Jew.

Paul has put it into words that the spiritually discerning can understand.

Being a Christian means that there is no Jew or Gentile. (Galatians 3:28)
 
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Douggg

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Paul is saying that only a Jew who is circumcised inwardly, is a Jew.
Paul was making the point that there was more to being a Jew than circumcision of the flesh.

Paul was also making the point to be right with God was to be a righteous person, physical circumcision is not enough.
 
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keras

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Oh, you are saying James shouldn't have said what he said in Acts 21:21-25?
James doesn't say that circumcision is necessary for anyone. Jews can do it to maintain their customs and it is [was] commonly done in Christian society. I can personally attest to that. It has no bearing on Salvation, as Paul makes clear.
You are going to fit 2.5 billion Christians into the land of Israel?

Where's the food, water, electricity, housing going to come from - for 2.5 billion Christians?
You are seemingly incapable of understanding God's Plans for His faithful Christian people. Read Jeremiah 23:3, Jeremiah 50:4-6, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Isaiah 35:15-20, Joel 3:18, Psalms 37:29, Romans 9:24-26, +

And 2.5 billion faithful Christians, is a huge stretch!
 
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