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The physical descendants of the ancient nation of Israel.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Biblewriter, Jun 5, 2021.

  1. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    The thing is that none of the Bible references about heaven, actually say humans will go to and live in heaven.
    My main objection to that idea, lovely as it sounds, is the many Prophesies that do tell us what our destiny is. It will be entirely on earth and it will be quite amazing.
     
  2. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    It indeed does not say those particular words, but it CLEARLY says that:

    "your reward is great in heaven." Luke 6:23

    "In My Father's house are many mansions...I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself." John 14:2-3

    "we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." 2 Corinthians 5:1

    "our citizenship is in heaven." Philippians 3:20

    " the hope which is laid up for you in heaven." Colossians 1:4

    "you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven." Hebrews 10:34

    "an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you." 1 Peter 1:3-4
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
  3. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    The promises were not ONLY made to Abraham's seed, But also to each of the ancient sub-nations of Ephraim and Judah, to each f the twelve tribes of Israel by name, and to the PLOT OF REAL ESTATE occupied by the ancient nation of Israel.

    You cannot even PRETEND that ANY scripture even suggests the idea that ANY of these EXPLICITLY STATED names refer to "the church."
     
  4. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You deny Galatians 3:16.

    You refer to tribes, which are "seeds".

    The Holy Spirit in Galatians 3:16 EXPLICITLY DECLARES that the promises ARE NOT to "seeds" as of many, BUT TO "seed" as of ONE.

    Which is Christ.

    No reference to tribes or real estate or Israel.

    ONLY to Christ.

    ONE SEED.

    Precisely the opposite of what you are claiming.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
  5. Jeffwhosoever

    Jeffwhosoever Faithful Servant Staff Member Assistant Chaplain Angels Team Supporter

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    In Heaven on Earth, I don't care in the least, as long as I am with my Brothers and Sisters in Christ and with the Lord Himself. However, I imagine we will be able to experience either, as the Lord wills.
     
  6. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    THAT scripture was abut the promise made to Abraham. THESE promises were not made to Abraham, but to specific nations descended from Abraham.And in some cases, to specific PLOTS OF REAL ESTATE. In denying that these promises will actually be kept, you are making God out to be a liar.
     
  7. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Not one of these quotes actually says we Christians will live in heaven.
    Jesus BRINGS our rewards with Him at His Return. Matthew 16:27
    And immortality is not conferred until at the GWT Judgment, AFTER the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15 When our 'mansions', arrive here, in the New Jerusalem. Revelation 21:1-7
     
  8. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    THAT SCRIPTURE IS about the promiseS made to Abraham and his ONE SEED CHRIST.

    NO NATIONS.

    NO REAL ESTATE.

    The choice:

    1. Galatians 3:16.
    2. Galatians 3:16 detractors and deniers.

    There's only one Scriptural answer.
     
  9. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Biblewriter; James Morris, [and Goujing]
    May I suggest that you seriously consider who the people that call themselves the Jewish State of Israel, really are.
    Are they all true descendants of Judah? If not, what percentage would you think are really from Judah or any of the other 11 tribes?
    Keep in mind that the Jewish State was founded by people with communistic ideals and funded by the Rothschild empire. It has a flag symbol that originated as a Satanic emblem.
    It is not and cannot be the fulfilment of Isaiah 66:7-14

    But God knows where the true people of God are. Amos 9:9
    And after the Day the Lord clears and cleanses all of the holy Land, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Zephaniah 1:1-18, THEY will gather there and be His people. Ezekiel 39:21-29, Zechariah 8:1-8
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I think part of the issue is - it seems to me - is that you are implying that others say Christians go to heaven and stay there. But that is not the case.

    Christians' souls go to heaven when they die. And in the rapture/resurrection, all the Christians of times past and Christians alive at the time will have their bodies redeemed/translated into everlasting bodies - and go to heaven, while the great tribulation takes place here on earth.

    When Jesus returns, them in Christ having their translated and everlasting bodies return with Him, back to earth. And will be able to come and go from earth to heaven, just like the angels are able to do.
     
  11. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    We most certainly do not deny Galatians 3:16, or any other scripture. But Galatians 3:16 is ONLY about promises made to ABRAHAM. SO Galatians 3:16 does NOT EVEN ADDRESS the MANY other promises made to Isaac, to Jacob, to the ancient nation of Israel, to both of the two ancient sub-nations of Ephraim and Judah, to each of the twelve tribes of Israel by name, to the plhsical land of Israel, or to the descendants pf various Israelites.

    YOU are denying that God will actually keep ANY pf these promises. And in doing this, you are making God out to have LIED when He made these MANY promises.
     
  12. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    The scriptures clearly teach that when the end times begin, Judah, that is, the GENETIC Jews, will be in the land of Judea. The fact that others are there as well has zero bearing on ths HARD FACT. But, although the scriptures show Judah in the land during the seventieth week,they also show them there in a state of rebellion and unbelief. Which is EXACTLY what we see today.
     
  13. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    1/ No one goes to heaven. Period.
    2/ Therefore; no one stays there.
    3/ All the souls of dead people go back to God, who made them. They all know nothing until they stand before God in Judgment. Revelation 20:1-15
    4/ The 'rapture to heaven' is a lie and is never said to happen in the Bible.
    5/ When Jesus Returns, He will bring back the souls of the martyrs killed during the Great Trib of the final 3 1/2 years. No one else. Rev 20:4
    6/ Come and go from earth to heaven? Your are a dreamer and maker of fables.

    Why are you unable to simply read what the Bible tells us, without adding fanciful nonsense?
     
  14. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Right the Jews are there now. At least some of them.
    Why then can you not see their forthcoming Judgment and punishment?

    Many Prophesies tell of their virtual demise, along with all the ungodly peoples in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 22:1-14 is one of 20 + about what the Lord will do to His enemies, those who reject Him.
    Isaiah 29:1-6 clearly states how the Lord will encircle them with fire and only a remnant will survive by hiding underground.

    THEN; it will be God's faithful Christian peoples who will occupy Jerusalem and all of the holy Land. They are there, when the Anti-Christ conquers them. Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:5-8
     
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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  16. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The tribes were never comprised of only GENETIC Jews. (Genesis 17:12; Exodus 12:48; Exodus 12:49; Leviticus 19:34; Leviticus 24:22). That is sheer racism.

    Every Gentile stranger within the tribes who submitted in faith and obedience to God's Covenant was accorded full Covenant rights and privileges, and accepted as any faithful obedient GENETIC Jew, without exception or distinction.

    At the same time, God slew by the thousands GENETIC Jews who apostasized into unfaithfulness and disobedience.

    The above Scriptures declare that the stranger "shall be as one that is born in the land"; "the stranger that sojourneth with you shall be unto you as the home-born among you."

    I defy you to produce any Scripture in which genetics replaces faith and obedience as God's sole and exclusive Covenant criteria.

    You continue to attempt to make God a racist.

    You fail.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
  17. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Since its beginnings, dispensationalism has incessantly and loudly proclaimed that it is Israel that is the fulfillment and heir of a vast array of God's promises and bequests. One need only read and hear a small fraction of dispensationalism's prodigious prophetic output to recognize that Israel is the chief cornerstone in the foundation of the dispensational prophetic edifice.

    Consequently, not even Christ Himself is permitted to replace Israel as the anointed recipient of that which dispensationalism claims it is entitled to. In any and every instance whenever it appears that Israel's presumed entitlements are being questioned, charges such as “calling God a liar”, “anti-Semitic”, "evil", "heretical", and various other epithets are directed at the perceived offender. It is the equivalent of identity politics within the church of God. Thus Christ is denied His own entire, rightful, and exclusive entitlements as Fulfillment and Heir of all of God's promises and bequests.

    The reason is self-evident. Israel's removal as the anointed recipient is the equivalent of the removal of dispensationalism's chief cornerstone, and the consequent and unavoidable collapse of the edifice which it supports. The result is effectively dispensational detonation, and the disappearance of a pervasive, not to mention lucrative, presence and influence within the Church.

    But Scripture is unequivocal in its declarations, notwithstanding the denials directed at it:

    Revelation 19:10
    “...the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy”

    Israel does not substitute for Jesus.

    Jesus declares Himself to be the Fulfillment of all things concerning Himself.

    Luke 24:44
    And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

    Other Scriptures confirm His declaration, and further declare Him as Beneficiary of all of the promses, and Heir of all things:

    Galatians 3:16
    Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    2 Corinthians 1:20
    For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

    Hebrews 1:1,2
    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    There is no substitute for “all”.

    In summation of which, Scripture declares:

    Colossians 3:11
    “...Christ is all, and in all

    Notice that Israel is conspicuous by its absence in the foregoing declarations.

    The reason: They have nothing to do with Israel.

    And everything to do with the One Seed and Heir.

    Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
     
  18. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    They are humans. The angels in heaven are called angels. And the living beasts in heaven - beasts.
     
  20. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Don't bother. No amount of scripture will change his mind.
     
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