The Perfect Law

[Soyeong]

Yes, but the only things i need to obey are in the NT.

So there are things that God has revealed to be sin that you don't need to obey and to that extent you are in bondage to sin.

 

[W2L]

So there are things that God has revealed to be sin that you don't need to obey and to that extent you are in bondage to sin.

Nope. God revealed to me that i am free to eat what i want.

 

[Soyeong]

Nope. God revealed to me that i am free to eat what i want.

In Leviticus, God commanded His people to do what is holy for He is holy, and one of the ways that He revealed how to do that is by refraining from eating unclean animals (Leviticus 11:44-45). In 1 Peter 1:13-16, we are still told to do what is holy for God is holy, which is a reference to Leviticus where God was giving those instructions, so the NT teaches us to refrain from eating unclean animals. It is a divine privilege for God to teach us by grace how to walk in His ways in accordance with His attributes, so it is something that we should delight in doing through faith, as David did throughout the Psalms, as Paul did (Romans 7:22), and in accordance with the example that Messiah set for his followers to follow. In 1 Peter 2:9-10, it says that we are part of a holy nation, so we should seek out God's instructions for how to live as part of a holy nation.

 

[W2L]

In Leviticus, God commanded His people to do what is holy for He is holy, and one of the ways that He revealed how to do that is by refraining from eating unclean animals (Leviticus 11:44-45). In 1 Peter 1:13-16, we are still told to do what is holy for God is holy, which is a reference to Leviticus where God was giving those instructions, so the NT teaches us to refrain from eating unclean animals. It is a divine privilege for God to teach us by grace how to walk in His ways in accordance with His attributes, so it is something that we should delight in doing through faith, as David did throughout the Psalms, as Paul did (Romans 7:22), and in accordance with the example that Messiah set for his followers to follow. In 1 Peter 2:9-10, it says that we are part of a holy nation, so we should seek out God's instructions for how to live as part of a holy nation.

ok, thanks Soyeong

 

[Apex]

James is writing to Jewish Christians. In his letter he says:

"But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing." (James 1:25)

"If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well." (James 2:8)

"So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty." (James 2:12).​

The perfect law, the law of liberty, the royal law. What is James referring to when he uses these terms?

Mark 12:28-31
And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the most important of all?" Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."

1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.

Romans 13:8-10
Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

 

[fhansen]

It

Is the "perfect law" the OT law?

No, it's the gospel, the "New Law"

 

[Neogaia777]

James is writing to Jewish Christians. In his letter he says:

"But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing." (James 1:25)

"If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well." (James 2:8)

"So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty." (James 2:12).​

The perfect law, the law of liberty, the royal law. What is James referring to when he uses these terms?

James 2:8 is definitely true,

But, there's a worldly spirit trying to define love, and it seeks to warp your perspective into, say, having a negative view of Love, of it or shape you into it's mold of what it says, "true Love" is, if he can't get you to think negatively of it or react negatively to it, then he'll make you think that the world has the answers to what true love is and what they say it is, they may also try to pervert it also...

(He doesn't like competitor's...)(knowing if one had done it before he did and could, and if they showed thus that they had the answer to real, true Love, is, and could show and prove it, then, he'd be finished...)

Anyway, None of (afore mentioned) these views of love is correct, you must get your information from God, not the world, anyway...


I think "judged under the law of liberty", means that you sacrifice of your own free will, your liberty, in some fashion...? That, really, can not be "taken away" from you, you have to give it away, or up, in some fashion, of your own free will...in some fashion, I think...? Maybe...?

Peace,

God Bless!

 

[toLiJC]

James is writing to Jewish Christians. In his letter he says:

"But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing." (James 1:25)

"If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well." (James 2:8)

"So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty." (James 2:12).​

The perfect law, the law of liberty, the royal law. What is James referring to when he uses these terms?

the matter at hand is the freedom from evil that may befall the soul in the course of the eternal judgment(circle of existence and positions of the souls); in short, if we work for overall salvation in the One Who is really the true Lord God, we have eternal life (eternal life is at least the extension of the time of abundant life), but if we cause evil to our neighbor/cohabitant, then the same evil we cause(d) to them will inevitably be caused to us in exactly the same way (Matthew 7:1-12); the true Saints (will) have abundant and eternal life for ever and ever i.e. for many successive cycles of the eternity (though at least some of them have to suffer for a while), the sinners (will)...

Blessings

 

[jimmyjimmy]

So James is saying: "Live and let live, dudes." ?

Yes. Didn't you know that Jesus and His followers were exactly like hippies? I mean, they had long hair and wore sandals. . .

 

[Tree of Life]

Mark 12:28-31
And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the most important of all?" Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."

1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.

Romans 13:8-10
Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Does this render the 10 Commandments obsolete?

 

[Tree of Life]

It

No, it's the gospel, the "New Law"

Then why does James quote the 10 Commandments when he's talking about it?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In Leviticus, God commanded His people to do what is holy for He is holy, and one of the ways that He revealed how to do that is by refraining from eating unclean animals (Leviticus 11:44-45). In 1 Peter 1:13-16, we are still told to do what is holy for God is holy, which is a reference to Leviticus where God was giving those instructions, so the NT teaches us to refrain from eating unclean animals. It is a divine privilege for God to teach us by grace how to walk in His ways in accordance with His attributes, so it is something that we should delight in doing through faith, as David did throughout the Psalms, as Paul did (Romans 7:22), and in accordance with the example that Messiah set for his followers to follow. In 1 Peter 2:9-10, it says that we are part of a holy nation, so we should seek out God's instructions for how to live as part of a holy nation.

Not true. Peter's vision from God told him that he can eat unclean animals. This message was two fold.

1. You can can eat unclean animals.
2. The message of the gospel is for the Gentile people also.

Paul also condemned circumcision as a part of one's faith for salvation. Galatians 5:2 is clear on this. This means we are not under the Old Covenant. Yes, there are "Eternal Moral Laws." But ceremonial laws are not primarily moral laws.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Then why does James quote the 10 Commandments when he's talking about it?

In James 2: Where does James say TEN commandments or the Mosaic Law?

He doesn't. The word "law" in this case is referring to God's laws under the New Covenant. James says the Royal Law. This law is about love is what he essentially says.

For the context is talking about respect of persons among the brethren. Giving favor to brethren who are well off financially vs. the brethren who are poor. If you break the law of love by favoring the well off brethren and ignoring the poor brethren, you break all of God's laws under the New Covenant today.


...

 

[Tree of Life]

In James 2: Where does James say TEN commandments or the Mosaic Law?

James 2:10-11

 

[fhansen]

Then why does James quote the 10 Commandments when he's talking about it?

Under the New Covenant the Old Covenant is not revoked, only made obsolete by replacing it with a new and better one. The Law is still holy, righteousness, and good, but we now have a new way, the only right and authentic way, to fulfill it, by the Spirit rather than by the letter. The Spirit fulfills the Law as God places that Law on our hearts and writes it in our minds, transforming us into His image, the image of love which fulfills the Law by its nature rather than by our own futile efforts at achieving righteousness.

We don't draw near to and please God by an external show of righteousness first of all, rather we please Him by coming to Him in humble faith first of all, after which He changes us, producing righteousness in us, the righteousness or justice that we were created to have but cannot possibly achieve without communion with Him, 'apart from whom we can do nothing'. There is no conflict between the old & new covenants seen in this light, which is why Jesus can say that He didn't come to abolish the Law, and why Paul in Romans 2 can say we'll still be judged by it even though it's incapable of justifying us.

 

[Dkh587]

Is the "perfect law" the OT law?

Yes it is. The problem isn't God's law, it's us.

I think many don't understand the dualistic nature of God's law: obey & live, disobey & die.

It seems many christians only focus on the disobedience and death part - they never talk about the blessings for obeying God's commandments. Western thinking is very different from how Scriptures teach to think

God's law is the perfect law of liberty

 

[Bible Highlighter]

James 2:10-11

No it doesn't say the TEN or the Mosaic Law. These are God's eternal moral laws. The written law just emphasized them. The moral law existed before the Ten Commandments and they will always exist for man. The law on adultery and the law on murder existed before the written law (Genesis 39:7-9) (Genesis 4:8-11). Under the New Covenant: Paul emphasizes that by loving your neighbor, you will not commit adultery and nor will you murder (Romans 13:8-10).

In Genesis 26:5, God says,

"Because that Abraham obeyed My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."

How can Abraham keep God's commandments if they didn't exist yet?

Why was the world destroyed by a global flood? Does not the Scriptures say that the flood was an example to all who live ungodly thereafter? (2 Peter 2:5-6).

Obviously this referring to how they did not live by God's eternal moral laws. Hence, why they were destroyed and are example to even us today.

...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Under the New Covenant the Old Covenant is not revoked, only made obsolete by replacing it with a new and better one. The Law is still holy, righteousness, and good, but we now have a new way, the only right and authentic way, to fulfill it, by the Spirit rather than by the letter. The Spirit fulfills the Law as God places that Law on our hearts and writes it in our minds, transforming us into His image, the image of love which fulfills the Law by its nature rather than by our own futile efforts at achieving righteousness.

We don't draw near to and please God by an external show of righteousness first of all, rather we please Him by coming to Him in humble faith first of all, after which He changes us, producing righteous in us, the righteousness or justice that we were created to have but cannot possibly achieve without communion with Him, 'apart from whom we can do nothing'. There is no conflict between the old & new covenants seen in this light, which is why Jesus can say that He didn't come to abolish the Law, and why Paul in Romans 2 can say we'll still be judged by it even though it's incapable of justifying us.

Breaking God's eternal moral laws still cause spiritual death and separation from God if they are not repented of for the believer. Galatians 5:19-21, 1 John 3:15, Revelation 21:8.

Most are confused because they think Paul was talking about all Law, when in reality he was referring specifically to the written Law of Moses as a whole or package. Paul condemns breaking the moral law in many places.

...

 

[corinth77777]

No, I need to be a lot more clear and specific on this. Basically, the Old Testament has laws that He gave strictly to the Israelites. If you look in the New Testament, Jesus tells us to hold to the Ten Commandments and all of the laws, until He dies. It goes on to say by Jesus's prophets that when Jesus died, we no longer need to follow the Old Testament laws, but we must hold true to the Ten Commandments.

Basically, any kind of law pertaining to the Israelites except for the Ten Commandments we don't need to follow. Yet all of the stories in the Bible, are metaphors to how we should handle a situation today, that's why the Old Testament is still important to read.

Can you please share the scripture where "Jesus tells us to hold to the Ten Commandments and all of the laws, until He dies. "

 

[fhansen]

Breaking God's eternal moral laws still cause spiritual death and separation from God if they are not repented of for the believer. Galatians 5:19-21, 1 John 3:15, Revelation 21:8.

Most are confused because they think Paul was talking about all Law, when in reality he was referring specifically to the written Law of Moses as a whole or package. Paul condemns breaking the moral law in many places.

...

Yes, I don't disagree with any of this. Paul was at times speaking of the ceremonial laws, less weighty in their way, but more often, I believe, of the moral law, specifically the ten commandments, and in either case he was battling legalism and the notion that the law could justify man on its own.

But the problem with man is not first of all that he sins, but first of all that he's out of communion with God, concupiscence and the personal sins it produces being the natural offspring of that original sin. Until that rift is reconciled and healed man has no real hope of fulfilling any law, of being just. Again, the difference between the old and new covenants isn't a matter of rendering the Law wrong, or of replacing the Law with grace, but rather of fulfilling the Law-realizing the righteousness of God (that which man was created to have)- by grace, the right way, under grace rather than under the Law. This involves direct relationship or communion with God without which man is already in a state of injustice, a relationship which is established and maintained by faith in response to grace, to God's calling, faith being a virtue that Adam effectively dismissed and forfeited by His act of disobedience of God, by not believing and heeding Him IOW.