The pastors try to ride my back.

Must a christian always obbey the pastor, no matter what?


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com7fy8

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She was reading 1 Peter 2:13 where it says that we must obbey any outhority. Is this a sign from God that I must obbey the pastor,
It says to be subject, in at least one translation. This does not mean to be a puppet of any person in authority. Or else, this could get interesting.

even though he commands me to do all kind of work in the church?
First, I would offer, get with a pastor you trust and you know the pastor is a qualified example > 1 Timothy 3:1-10. Then what the person says to do is likely to be what Jesus is guiding your pastor to have you do. And so, it will be for Jesus.

Also, even if a leader is not right or not fully qualified . . . it can be for Jesus that you do things for the person. It is an opportunity for you to get to know the leader and pray for the leader and help the leader to do better. We all need each other, to help one another. Also, your helping can have you sharing with others who turn out to be good Christian people who are good for you, or you can help others if they are not doing so well.

And it can help to prepare you for how to relate with a boss in a job you want.
 
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Tinker Grey

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@Tinker Grey

May I ask you why you do not beleive in God?
The short answer is that I see no evidence for gods.

If you want a longer answer, you could PM me. Otherwise, we'd derail your thread. Also, moderators sometimes interpret discussions on atheism as "promotion." The rules forbid promoting atheism, IIRC.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Hello,

I've been going to a church for more then 10 years. At first the pastors treated me well. At some time, they asked me to help in the church and I helped.

But at some time the pastors began not to ask me for help, but to give me commands, saying that in the bible it is written that I must obbey the pastors. Those commands were to do some common work in the church. I felt not like going to a church, but like going to a workplace that I don't like.

Some of the new people that started coming to the church thought I'm some kind of laborer there and treated me very badly, trying to give me commands too.

I talked with the pastor and he said I'm not obliged to obbey him, but if I was a true christian I would feel obliged to help in the church. I think he abuses my good nature and my readiness to help people in need when I can.

In my opinion the pastors are trying to ride my back, treating me like their slave.

I feel guilt when I don't obbey the pastor, because in the bible it is written to obbey him.

How do you think, must a christian always obbey the pastor, no matter what? Or the obedience must be done with knowledge, not litterally doing anything he commands me to do?
Control and manipulation are NOT OF GOD. God doesn't control us. He gave us free will and wants us to choose Him. He could have created us to be automatons that had no choice, but he didn't.

Control is of the world system. You don't have to obey anyone. You need to honor those above you, but that doesn't mean obey or be taken advantage of, by anyone.

YOU decide how much time you can give the church. I doubt he will change because he doesn't see it now. But I would tell him what time you are able to spare for the church, given your other obligations, and that you would appreciate being asked, not commanded to do things.
 
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Zhivko

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If you click my name, you'll see "start a conversation" part way down the display.

I don't have enough likes and messages to start a conversation. If you want add me on facebook to talk on faith: Zhivko Stoychev
 
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Tinker Grey

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I don't have enough likes and messages to start a conversation. If you want add me on facebook to talk on faith: Zhivko Stoychev
Hmm ... I wasn't aware there was that restriction. Thank you for your trust in giving me your facebook handle. I'm not in the habit of giving mine out. However, it appears that I can start one with you. See if you the board will let you respond to me.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Hello,

I've been going to a church for more then 10 years. At first the pastors treated me well. At some time, they asked me to help in the church and I helped.

But at some time the pastors began not to ask me for help, but to give me commands, saying that in the bible it is written that I must obbey the pastors. Those commands were to do some common work in the church. I felt not like going to a church, but like going to a workplace that I don't like.

Some of the new people that started coming to the church thought I'm some kind of laborer there and treated me very badly, trying to give me commands too.

I talked with the pastor and he said I'm not obliged to obbey him, but if I was a true christian I would feel obliged to help in the church. I think he abuses my good nature and my readiness to help people in need when I can.

In my opinion the pastors are trying to ride my back, treating me like their slave.

I feel guilt when I don't obbey the pastor, because in the bible it is written to obbey him.

How do you think, must a christian always obbey the pastor, no matter what? Or the obedience must be done with knowledge, not litterally doing anything he commands me to do?

He's your spiritual leader...not your work supervisor.

Next time he asks you to do maintenance work (which I'm guessing is the sort of work you're doing) tell him you'll gladly do it for 3/4ths of what a hired contractor would ask. That, plus you want back pay for the work you've already done (whatever you feel is a fair amount....300, 400, 800...whatever).

If he pulls the old "I'm your pastor and you need to obey me" line....tell him you are obeying him, but that doesn't mean you need to be a sucker doing manual labor for free. If he claims that you're trying to take advantage....remind him that you're offering to do it for 75-80% of what a standard laborer would charge. If he refuses to pay, they suggest that he finds another member of the church who hasn't contributed as much of their time and effort into the church....that way the rest of the congregation can enjoy the opportunity to obey their pastor as well.

If he doesn't get the picture after this discussion....and continues to try to wring free labor from you....I agree with the other posters who say you should find a new church.
 
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SwordmanJr

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But at some time the pastors began not to ask me for help, but to give me commands, saying that in the bible it is written that I must obbey the pastors.

The modern concept and definition of "pastor" is quite a departure from the biblical model. Most are nothing more than CEO hirelings, and many have an authority fixation just like many CEO's.

You know, TRUE leaders are those who don't have to command anyone. Those spiritual giants out there who shine forth the Light of God, they have no problem putting forth their own hands to what needs to be done, and allowing others to join in, and even replace them if there are other more pressing things that need doing.

The modern, institutional "pastor" is a creature unknown to the Bible because it provides no definitive job description for them. Oh yes, there are many assumptions put forth by many about Timothy and others, but in the end, the term "pastor" appears once in the NT in Ephesians. Most OT references to "pastors" are quite negative.

Some of the new people that started coming to the church thought I'm some kind of laborer there and treated me very badly, trying to give me commands too.

Why not simply look at them and say, "Well, I'll be happy to help YOU do that task." That separates the lazy authoritarians from the true lovers of God and His people.

I talked with the pastor and he said I'm not obliged to obbey him, but if I was a true christian I would feel obliged to help in the church. I think he abuses my good nature and my readiness to help people in need when I can.

We all have the option of being suckers or not being suckers to such rhetoric. Look, discipling (feeding the flock) is not at all a matter of ordering others around on tasks that need accomplished in support of a communal facility. If ALL the members who want to benefit from having a stake in that facility aren't willing to do their part, then they're leeches that suck the life out of any thing and any one they can latch onto. Pastoral authority stops at the point of being a sentry guard against heresies that can cause unnecessary divisions and distort the Gospel.

Those so-called "pastors" out there who aren't essentially putting themselves out of a job by effectively bringing up to spiritual maturity ALL of those to whom they minister, then they are simply men who are doing little more than developing a following of perpetually bleeting sheep for themselves that remain at the level of slurping up milk rather than flying like eagles and eating meat.

In my opinion the pastors are trying to ride my back, treating me like their slave.

And yet you remained.....perhaps until now.

I feel guilt when I don't obbey the pastor, because in the bible it is written to obbey him.

You really need to do a deeper study about the biblical model of church leadership authority. You've been sold a bill of goods that is purely authoritarian and man-made, not something God-breathed. Beware, however, what eventually will happen if you DARE to begin obeying the word of God above authoritarian pulpit pounders. By educating yourself on what the Bible actually says, you will be labeled, a "free thinker" and any number of other labels the band wagon folks consider negative. They want you quietly riding along with them, following all the usual cues for how, what and when you should do things, how you should think, and when to jump from one band wagon to another based upon trends and clicks.

Start working on your relationship with the Lord Himself, and then let His light guide you away from the sucker path onto the path of His wisdom and insight into His thoughts and His ways. Just because the Lord said that His thoughts and ways are above ours as the heavens are above the earth, He never did command that we never ask for them.

Jr
 
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Shempster

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Hello,

I've been going to a church for more then 10 years. At first the pastors treated me well. At some time, they asked me to help in the church and I helped.

But at some time the pastors began not to ask me for help, but to give me commands, saying that in the bible it is written that I must obbey the pastors. Those commands were to do some common work in the church. I felt not like going to a church, but like going to a workplace that I don't like.

Some of the new people that started coming to the church thought I'm some kind of laborer there and treated me very badly, trying to give me commands too.

I talked with the pastor and he said I'm not obliged to obbey him, but if I was a true christian I would feel obliged to help in the church. I think he abuses my good nature and my readiness to help people in need when I can.

In my opinion the pastors are trying to ride my back, treating me like their slave.

I feel guilt when I don't obbey the pastor, because in the bible it is written to obbey him.

How do you think, must a christian always obbey the pastor, no matter what? Or the obedience must be done with knowledge, not litterally doing anything he commands me to do?

Trying not to judge the guy here, but his actions reflect the quintessential "Covert Narcissist".
It is a very interesting topic and good to know about. I would not argue much with him about anything because the response to objections by a covert narcissist is that they will seek to ruin your reputation if they are defied. Even if it is subconscious, it always happens.
The single best response to a covert narcissist is "thank you for your input".
 
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BNR32FAN

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Hello,

I've been going to a church for more then 10 years. At first the pastors treated me well. At some time, they asked me to help in the church and I helped.

But at some time the pastors began not to ask me for help, but to give me commands, saying that in the bible it is written that I must obbey the pastors. Those commands were to do some common work in the church. I felt not like going to a church, but like going to a workplace that I don't like.

Some of the new people that started coming to the church thought I'm some kind of laborer there and treated me very badly, trying to give me commands too.

I talked with the pastor and he said I'm not obliged to obbey him, but if I was a true christian I would feel obliged to help in the church. I think he abuses my good nature and my readiness to help people in need when I can.

In my opinion the pastors are trying to ride my back, treating me like their slave.

I feel guilt when I don't obbey the pastor, because in the bible it is written to obbey him.

How do you think, must a christian always obbey the pastor, no matter what? Or the obedience must be done with knowledge, not litterally doing anything he commands me to do?

I’m not familiar with this verse that says you must obey the church leaders or pastor. Perhaps in the Torah but we’re no longer obligated to the Mosaic Laws. Perhaps in the context of following God’s commandments but not about doing chores. As for people in the church treating you badly or looking down at you, what they should be doing is looking up to you as an example of what they should also be doing. I used to be so active in the church helping out doing work and the past 2 years I haven’t had the opportunity. I never experienced what you are going thru. I was always asked politely if I could help, never commanded. It feels good to work for the church doesn’t it? I would pray and ask The Lord for guidance on this subject. Remember love, patience, endurance, and perseverance my friend. God will deal with the unjust in His own way. God bless you friend
 
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BNR32FAN

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The Pastor of that church is in an office in which he is responsible for its members. So he is in a higher position of authority than you within those walls and as long as you are there you should respect the Pastors wishes. This would be expected in any institution, you follow the rules of the place you are in. However the command to obey your leaders in Hebrews 13:17 is in reference to the Jewish synagogue. It cannot be assumed that this command carries the exact same sense in the Gentile house churches. Even if it did it could only carry whatever authority the Jewish priesthood carried. Afaik that authority did not include forcing people to take out the trash.

I would meet privately with the Pastor again and discuss how his behavior makes you feel. That way you can clear any misunderstandings before you make your decision to leave or stay.

The original Greek text does not use the word obey. It says

Hebrews 13:7

7 Remember those led you, who did speak to you the word of God, whose faith – considering the issue of the behaviour – be imitating,

Nothing in here about obedience. The apostles didn’t command others to do work. In fact they worked hard themselves earning their way every step.

““I have never coveted anyone’s silver or gold or fine clothes. You know that these hands of mine have worked to supply my own needs and even the needs of those who were with me. And I have been a constant example of how you can help those in need by working hard. You should remember the words of the Lord Jesus: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ””
‭‭Acts of the Apostles‬ ‭20:33-35‬
 
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Sanoy

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The original Greek text does not use the word obey. It says

Hebrews 13:7

7 Remember those led you, who did speak to you the word of God, whose faith – considering the issue of the behaviour – be imitating,

Nothing in here about obedience. The apostles didn’t command others to do work. In fact they worked hard themselves earning their way every step.

““I have never coveted anyone’s silver or gold or fine clothes. You know that these hands of mine have worked to supply my own needs and even the needs of those who were with me. And I have been a constant example of how you can help those in need by working hard. You should remember the words of the Lord Jesus: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ””
‭‭Acts of the Apostles‬ ‭20:33-35‬
Well, that is verse 7 rather than verse 17. Verse 17 which is commonly translated as obey doesn't technically meet the Greek for obey , but it's likely being translated obey due to the word used later in that sentence, hupeikó meaning submit to authority.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Well, that is verse 7 rather than verse 17. Verse 17 which is commonly translated as obey doesn't technically meet the Greek for obey , but it's likely being translated obey due to the word used later in that sentence, hupeikó meaning submit to authority.

Perhaps you are thinking of another verse friend. Verse 17 doesn’t seem to apply to his situation.

“And who made God angry for forty years? Wasn’t it the people who sinned, whose corpses lay in the wilderness?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3:17‬

Nope sorry I have the wrong verse lol Hebrews 13 not 3 lol
 
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BNR32FAN

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Well, that is verse 7 rather than verse 17. Verse 17 which is commonly translated as obey doesn't technically meet the Greek for obey , but it's likely being translated obey due to the word used later in that sentence, hupeikó meaning submit to authority.

Yes I see that also. Thank you for pointing that out.
 
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Hieronymus

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Hello,

I've been going to a church for more then 10 years. At first the pastors treated me well. At some time, they asked me to help in the church and I helped.

But at some time the pastors began not to ask me for help, but to give me commands, saying that in the bible it is written that I must obbey the pastors. Those commands were to do some common work in the church. I felt not like going to a church, but like going to a workplace that I don't like.

Some of the new people that started coming to the church thought I'm some kind of laborer there and treated me very badly, trying to give me commands too.

I talked with the pastor and he said I'm not obliged to obbey him, but if I was a true christian I would feel obliged to help in the church. I think he abuses my good nature and my readiness to help people in need when I can.

In my opinion the pastors are trying to ride my back, treating me like their slave.

I feel guilt when I don't obbey the pastor, because in the bible it is written to obbey him.

How do you think, must a christian always obbey the pastor, no matter what? Or the obedience must be done with knowledge, not litterally doing anything he commands me to do?
Luckily he didn't literally try to "ride your back"..
As for obedience to authorities, yes, a Christian is supposed to abide by the laws of the land he / she is in.
Priests however, don't have this authority.
In all, your church sounds terrible, your pastor sounds terrible.
Look for another church if you feel the need to be a church member somewhere.
 
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