TrueWords,
As I promised I am giving you an answer, but please don't wait that I answer in every post. There are times that I have more time and desire to answer and there are times when I am busy and I am not in a mood to answer. I don't see this forum as a place when I am to pursue others for my beliefs. I see this forum just as a place for sharing. Now, if someone doesn't agree with me, that's ok. After all, I don't want that everybody agrees with me.
Back to our discussion now.
You had said to me in your last post,
TW said:
"Paul didn't say that there were some who didn't have the knowledge of God'
My response, please bear with me as I must correct you here
Paul said,
"Awake to righteousness and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame" ( 1 Corinthians 15:34)
Brother, let me remind you how we got here in this issue.
You said:
Brother, Paul also said that there were some in Corinth that did not have the knowledge of God, and he warned some in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 that they were decieved if they thought they would enter the kingdom of God and do such sins. there was a man in relations with his Fathers wife in 1 Cor 5 etc etc etc.
It is this part of your post that made me give you my above answer. As you can see, my response was on 1Cor. 6:9-11, not on all the epistle. So, I missed a phrase in my answer. I should have written it this way; "Paul didn't say
in that verse that there were some who didn't have the knowledge of God, but bla, bla, bla...." Do you see now the difference?
Let me say you something. When I write here in this forum, I try to share with y'all what I have learned from my studies and/or experience with my Lord. I don't open my handkonkordanz to find out any word and search all the bible where this particular word is found and so answer to any one here. I just share what I know.
So, I didn't open the Corinthians to see where the word knowledge is used so that I answer you. When I saw your answer I remembered that Paul says in the begining of this epistle that He thanks God that they were rich in every knowledge etc. In that particular verse Paul didn't say that they didn't have knowledge, but that before converting to Christ they were plunged in some particular sins, but at the time Paul write to them they were no longer in the previous condition since they were sanctified.
As for the the other verse of Corinthians that talks about some of them who didn't have the knowledge of God, I opened the N.T. and read all the chapter 15 carefully.
It is dangerous to make copy&paste from the Scriptures. If we see carefully all chapter, we'll notice that Paul speaks about another gospel, wich brings us to the very begining of our discussion. Some of them were preaching another gospel. They were teaching in the church that Christ's resurrection hadn't took place. Paul was not talking about different views in different matters that has nothing to do with another gospel.
You brother cannot copy Paul's saying that there are some who don't have the knowledge of God and then paste this verse here in forum and telling others that they don't have the knowledge of God either, just because they happen to have a different opinion with you.
I would also like to give my opinion about the Scriptures authorities. I strongly believe that our only authority is God's Authority, Holy Spirit's Authority. Any other thing apart from Him, is less than God. If we make our outhority any other thing apart from our God, we take the limelight from Him and put it elsewhere. A book, even if it is Scripture, is not our outhority. Our authority is our Lord.
I am not saying that Scriptures are useless. We can see Christ in every page of them, we can be fed by them. But it is in our spirit that we are fed whenever we read the Scriptures, not in intellectual knowledge. These two things are worlds apart. Praise the Lord we have examples that Pharesees and Saducees, and Scribes were those who knew the "word of God" better than anyone else, but it was them that failed in aknowledging the true Word of God. The same goes to us. If we take the limelight from our Lord and put it to the scriptures, we will fail to recognize His voice.
That is why I have told you that it is dangerous to reject everyone only because they don't happen to have the same opinion with us in some issues. Again I am not saying for those who teach another gospel, but for people who have different opinions in other issues.
It is the Spirit who gives life, not the letter. So we have to learn to focus on our Lord and to learn to live by Him. So, we will learn to love our brothers and sisters. The Lord will teach us, either by circumstances, or by other brothers and sisters, or by Scriptures, how to live according to His will. But let us be careful lest we reject all those who our Lord has accepted in His bosom.
Paul also said,
about some of the ministers in Corinth, "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. ' (2 Corinthians 11:130 and he called them ministers of Satan.
Again you bring a verse out of the N.T. for proving what? That there are some false apostles among us? What do you want to support by bringing this verse to us?
My response,
I do not believe water baptism is for salvation and i would be patient with that person as long as it took. But if they are condemning others and will not get off their falsehood and start saying all are lost and this theme continues week after week. we will have a consensus about it and examine all things and if all but the one do not come to consensus, we will at least have unity in what most believe. I still will not kick them out, for I have no power to do so. but if the whole church decides that they have transgressed against all they ca make decisions according to Matthew 18. I , however have great patience with such people as the Lord has had patience with me..
Amen! That's exactly what I have tried to say in my previous posts. That person can have another opinion about baptizing, but he cannot force this opinion in the church. The same with the rest of the church. The rest have the right opinion, but they cannot force them change his mind. They can try to explain him the right baptizm, but if he is not convinced, he is still brother in Christ and thus, wellcomed at the meetings of the church. The Lord Himself may show him later his error. In the meantime he is still our brother.
My response,
I met with Steve and i disagreed with him to his face and i showed why. but we did not have enough time to fully get into it. We allow women to speak in Christ and as they are led. We only have problems with women rebuking their husbands and teaching in authority over the man. That is another discussion. But I know where they come from, they believe they are following Gods command in 1 Cor. 14 about women, and so if the whole church felt that way, their erronious doctrine would cause problems, but not for them, if they are in consensus about it. If I visited their assembly and began to show the freedoms for women that God has given, they may rebuke me or agree that i should not speak on such things. I would allow them to have their consensus, for what can i really do but use the word, and pray, and that is alot ib Gods eyes. i could not fellowship with them for too long, for I , like you would have great problems in quenching the spirit in other women. This is truely a church issue as i have been talking about, and needs to have grounded teaching on it by the Spirit. And a blanace.
That's good that you disagreed with him. It is also good that you will not talk about this issue at their meetings. But the problem is much deeper. Your wife will never be allowed to share that portion of Christ that belongs to her. This is law. By the law, the Spirit of God is quenched.
I think that this happens because people often are under Scriptures authority instead of being under God's authority. That is they focus on different doctrines, interpret them as they think it's best but they fail to give Christ to Gods people.
If they gathered around Christ, praising Him, adoring Him, talking with Him, encouraging each other by His words from Scriptures, loving Him and each other, they would never thought of that kind of doctrine. Probably, some brother would one day come up with that doctrine, but the church as a whole would decide according to how the Spirit leads Her, what to do with this doctrine. I believe that if the church is lead by the Spirit there is union. It is when the church is disconnected by the spirit that division comes, or some people try to keep that union by human means. The result is that around those people will gather only those who agree with them.