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Featured The Pastor King (New)

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by LoveofTruth, Dec 20, 2017.

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  1. Cat Loaf You

    Cat Loaf You Active Member

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    Paul was doing his job for money and in the evening he was preaching in synagouge to Jews so he was actually doing two jobs , but Apostles were told to not do anything and not even carry money with them but thier need would be provided by God through people they meet and preach gospel to so i don't really know if pastor should get paid or not in modern world .

    But these pastors who have private jet and few billion $ for sure not follow Christ but the Devil .
     
  2. MyGivenNameIsKeith

    MyGivenNameIsKeith Well-Known Member

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    as I said before, you have to study scriptures, pray, and things that nature to be able to discern who the bad eggs are. I've seen my fair share, but blindly putting the umbrella on the word pastor and accusing people of wrongdoing is the same as doing what you are accusing pastors of doing. I speak openly at church and I'm not the pastor. He is in no way deified or supreme over anything that I see. He is a normal guy like anyone else. He has more study, experience than most others so I listen to what he says. If it isn't biblical, I don't. I constantly search my bible to see if what he says is true. The final authority is the bible. Not the person who speaks. I'm sorry you have had a turbulent past with this issue, and I hope God helps you with it. Personally, I think you have had a bad experience that biases your views and are blindly full of hate and are here to justify that hate according to your own eyes. Don't be hateful.
     
  3. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    Although you make many good arguments and I tend to agree with some of them, The Church has always followed the teaching of Christ and His Apostles in ordaining leaders within the Church by the laying on of hands. This is from God, and is attested to by Scripture. I understand that you may feel inhibited or frustrated in that because you are not yourself ordained that you are being prevented from serving the Lord to your potential, and for this reason you disagree with the "model" being used by your religious organization for selecting and qualifying leaders. Wouldn't it be more beneficial if you were to work at discovering more ways that you can minister in the Gospel in your community, and even move toward being qualified for ordination yourself?

    It is true, as you've pointed out, that there are not enough devoted servants doing the Lord's work, so that those few who are stuck doing everything can suffer burnout. A few of us don't get burned out because we don't try to do all this work ourselves. Rather, we allow God to do the work through us while we just go along for the ride. The Holy Spirit gives strength to do good works beyond what we ourselves could ever imagine doing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  4. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    The idea that the church has been built on Peter is Roman Catholic heresy, and easily disproved from scripture.
    Lets have a close look at the text.-

    Matthew16v18And I say also to you, That you are Peter, (Petros, a pebble) and on this rock (Petra, a mountain) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
    Jesus is pointing out that Peter's name means a pebble or stone. Then Jesus, indicating himself, says "on this Rock, or mountain, I will build my church.

    ie. Jesus is the Rock or mountain on which the church is built, not Peter!

    So how do we verify that Jesus is referring to himself alone, and not Peter, when he uses the word "Petra = rock"?

    The New Testament is full of references that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. Here's one.-
    John8v57Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?” 58“Truly, truly, I tell you, Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

    Now lets see Jesus as "God the Rock" in the OT. And remember that the name Jesus or Jeshua, means "Salvation" in the Hebrew!

    Psalm62v1Truly my soul finds rest in God; my salvation comes from him.
    2Truly he is my rock and my salvation (Hebrew = Jeshua), he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.


    David's soul finds rest in God, who is his rock and his salvation (or his Jesus)!
    I can provide dozens of OT verses where God, Salvation, and rock are directly linked, but I suggest people search it out for themselves with an online concordance.

    The error that Jesus somehow appointed a man as head of the church has been falsely used to justify Papal authority and suppress the body of Christ since Emperor Constantine.
    Accepting any man as the head of the body of Christ is following the spirit of antichrist, not Christ.
    That applies whether it is a world wide movement or a local street corner church!
     
  5. 2Timothy2:15

    2Timothy2:15 Well-Known Member

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    Yet where in the bible does it say that Peter resided as a "pastor" over a church as in sole sr pastor? We know from ACTS 15 that Paul and Barnabas returned to Jerusalem to meet with the counsel of apostles and elders. This indicates there was a body of mature believers administering as a group, not a single man like we see today.

    Being a "pastor" is something you do, it is a gift. I always ask people who say "I have been called to pastor", just how many people are you pastoring now? This almost always ends up with the person I ask looking at me like they have no idea what I am talking about. You see if you are not actively involved in someones walk, encouraging, teaching, uplifting, on your own, chances are you or that person has NOT been given the gift to pastor. It is not something we do only after one gets a "title" or attends "seminary". What you end up with when you have indoctrinated people is hirelings, not biblical pastors.


    Look at the book of Timothy, Paul is writing how to appoint people. this is because Timothy is not to lord over the body but appoint others to work as a group. This is why he explains what the qualifications are so Timothy has a guideline when looking for others to help or assist him. This is not making Timothy the ruler, single authority. Jesus said, do not Lord over them as the gentiles do. Romans 12 says not one above another. Clearly the model we see today is pastor is above everyone else. Even so much that these men become corrupt and kick people own of church on their own authority often when people either expose them.
     
  6. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    I just want to point out a slight historical inaccuracy in your claim here. The Roman Catholic definition of papal authority (which is defined as a supreme authority over the Church) was not a doctrine in the Body of Christ since Emperor Constantine. There did exist, a certain "primacy" of the bishop of Rome "within the Church". The Apostle Peter was understood to have this "primacy" within the group of Christ's Apostles. There is a definite sense that this is true in the Scriptures, and was understood to be the case in the Church from the beginning. The definition of the papacy held to be true by the Roman Church now did not begin to cause such divisions in the Church until about the 8th century and didn't become a full blown problem until the beginning of the 11th century, when delegates of the Pope of Rome excommunicated the Patriarch of Constantinople for denying the supreme authority of the Pope over all bishops of the Church. By then, "primacy within the Church" had been turned into "supremacy over the Church". This concept was foreign to preexisting Church Tradition and has never been accepted by the Orthodox (Catholic) Church. The Emperor Constantine had nothing to do with the structure of the Church. That structure was already in existence from the time of Pentecost.
     
  7. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

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    I am thinking the real complaint should be churches are living far beneath what God has given and can be attained to with its current set up.
    You can’t get away from the 5 empowerment’s (not offices) listed in Ephesians. Nor can you get away from supporting them so they can dedicate themselves full time to maintaining that supernatural empowerment so they can serve others with it.
    So the real question becomes how do people become servents rather than leaders. (Knowing full well that the “servent leader” idea is just more of the same old same old with a different name.)

    So it’s not that God has forsaken a church because it has set up some kind of institutional governing structure. It’s just they don’t have what it takes to do differently in a higher level.
     
  8. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    Hello and God bless

    Glad to hear you took time to comment and consider these things.

    I did mention Acts 20 I believe in another post. But the word is "feed" there not shepherd. Although I know that shepherding, would be the work of a shepherd.I like the way the KJV puts it. It is a verb not a noun. So the word "feed" or tend to. Is a good word. It is like what a literal shepherd does thats true. But all can tend to the flock and feed them who are in oversight.

    For example, an evangelist tends to the flock and so does a teacher and apostle and prophet, it wold not be just the pastors that do this. Peter (an apostle) was told to feed or tend to the flock as well and he said he was also an elder (1 Peter 5:1-).

    We see something like this in Timothy. Timothy was an apostle worker with Paul, as well as Sivanus and Barnabas and Titus I believe and others. We find this reference in this these text about some of these men,

    "Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians..." (1 Thess 1:1 KJV) with "6 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ." (1 Thessalonians 2:6 KJV).

    and

    "Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.) Acts 13:1)
    with "14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out," (Acts 14:14 KJV)

    Notice that barnabas was either a prophet or teacher before he was called by God and sent as an apostle. This shows that some ministries overlap.

    We see that Timothy was also an apostle and sent to help churches as Titus was as well. Then they would go and meet back with Paul.

    But Timothy, though he was an apostle was told by Paul to do the work of an evangelist,

    "But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry."(2 Timothy 4:5 KJV)

    This shows that other ministries can do the work of others at times. Many of those who may be pastors or teachers or prophets and apostles may do the work of an evangelist though that may not be there primary gift. Or they may have two gifts as well. We see this is scripture (Acts 13:1, with 14:14). I see a similarity to this with prophecy. Paul says that "For ye may all prophesy one by one". And yet not all are Prophets as he said, "29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers?..."(1 Cor. 12:29 KJV). The ones who can prophesy may not be formally called prophets. Just as a evangelist who teaches may not be specifically called a teacher.

    So when we read of elders plural feeding the flock. This feeding or tending to the flock is for any gift of the five fold gifts. Peter fed the flock and he was an apostle not a pastor in the formal sense. Yet apostles seem to touch on all the ministries for a time. Possibly because when a new gathering is stared none of the believers may have developed their gifts and functions yet this takes take time to come forth and grow. So the apostles will fill in the gaps as I understand, then when elders and other gifts come forth they are not as needed in certain functions as much though they still can function in those roles.

    The word "Pastor" as a noun is used one time in the New Testament in the plural form. We do not see a man over all called the pastor doing most of the teaching and ministry and getting a regular salary as we see in mans tradition today. Yes many of these men may be godly men and love God and do good work. But the function of the church and God's order are hindered and the spirit is often quenched in such meetings. An exalted hierarchy is set up in place of body ministry in Christ.

    I was referring to 3 John 9,10. These clearly refer to the church and having one man permanent over them who took control of them and kicked some out of the church. Sorry I'm not sure what you are referring to here.

    I was in context and rightly dividing the word of truth here I believe and applying it properly to similar situations in the church today, the main one being the exalted permanent man over all called the "pastor".

    "9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not."


    When I was using Colossians 2:8. I was referring to the tradition of the one man pastor over the church. It was also referred to by some as the one "priest" over the church, or the false clergy laity division. This is a tradition of man that can fit into that verse as well and there are many other "worldly rudiments" done today in many assemblies.

    Paul told the Colossians to beware of this. And of a "man" who would do this over others. Now the "man" he was speaking of may call himself an apostle, or pastor or teacher or prophets or evangelist. But that is not the focus. The focus is if a man does this over others and has his own philosophy of worship and ministry, or he does it for vainglory and self promotion and he tries to justify it by the traditions of men that have developed from way back and if he seeks to get money and tax exemptions from the government and by doing so has to follow worldly rudiments and regulations and set up business meetings and minutes, and have a president etc.

    I believe I rightly divided the rod again in Colossians 2:8 and am not to be ashamed by this application of it.

    When I refer to the pastor king, I am showing that they Lord over the flock. Peter warns that this is possible and says not to be as lords over the flock in 1 Peter 5. Paul also says that none are to have dominion over others. I said

    "Paul said to the church, “Not that we have dominion over your faith but are helpers ..” (2 Cor. 1:24). The word “dominion”, here means “to rule: have dominion over, lord, be lord of...(from 2962),...supreme in authority, ie (as a noun) controller. By implication, Master (as in official title..)...” (Strongs Concordance. # 2961). Jesus also warned of such a false dominion and authority over others (Matthew 20:25-27), and said “it shall not be so among you”.

    But this is exactly how many in the modern role of pastor today could be defined. The rule and have supreme authority and control and are even called "Masters of Divinity". Paul says not to be like this

    I also refer to the King aspect when God's people wanted a king to reign over them. God warned them that when they wanted this they did not want God to reign over them. God was speaking to their hearts and speaking in the word through prophets etc. Similar today God still speaks to all hearts and through the body ministry. Not just one man over all called the pastor. So in that sense he has become like a king over others or a lord.

    I said this in the original post,

    "“Give us a King”

    There is a story in the bible where God’s people said, “Give us a King, to judge us” (1 Samuel 8:6). God allowed it, but told Samuel, “they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me that I should not reign over them” (1 Samuel 8:7). God also told Samuel to warn them that the king would bring them into bondage, take their goods and use them for his glory (1 Samuel 8:11-19).

    Saul also had some of the Levites killed (1 Sam. 22:17,18). The Levites being a type of the priesthood of all believers. Similarly, as Saul had them killed and they could no longer minister, so the modern one man Pastor Lord also quenches the spirit in the body and hinders or cuts off the priesthood of all believers where they can no longer minister freely.

    Today, similar to the story of Saul, you can almost hear the people cry, “Give us a Pastor, like all the other churches”, especially when they are looking for a new one. But by doing so, they may be rejecting God from reigning over them in the gatherings."


    Yes I also was trying to be sensitive to those who are simply ignorant of God's order and who have done many god things in Christ I said,

    "Though there are blessed pastor giftings in the body of Christ, (just as there are apostles, prophets, evangelist and teachers), the modern role of the exalted “Pastor” over all does not exist biblically and is a dangerous distortion spiritually to the church. Many of those in this unbiblical role may be true believers and loving men with sincerity and have many good qualities, Others may be seeking their own glory and reputation. But either way they are still in error in this exalted role and they still hinder the body from functioning in Christ.

    Despite the confusion of many religious forms today and the multitude of believers who gather in them, with the exalted Pastor over all, their various spiritual moments, evangelistic aspects and some good ministration seen in many of these gatherings, there is still a great problem in the churches and it must be corrected and set in God’s order."


    While I agree that elders plural are ideal for every assembly. I do not put the order into one man over all called the "pastor". God commands to allow body ministry and for God to be able to work in all. This is a command for the church order, not an option. And elders plural is the biblical order as scripture says we read of "them", "they", elders plural etc. Never do we find one man over al called the pastor. Not one verse in the New Testament.

    "23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church,.."( Acts 14:23 KJV)

    "And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called
    the elders of the church."(Acts 20:17 KJV)

    "14 Is any sick among you? let him call for
    the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:"(James 5:14 KJV)


    But having said that elders are a good function in the body of Christ. There were times when Paul and others planted churches and there were no elders for a long time, possibly 6 months to years. And then Paul left Titus to ordain elders as they were known in their ministering and recognized.

    5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:"(Titus 1:5 KJV)

    Paul would go back to churches he planted to see how they did.

    "36 And some days after Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do."(Acts 15:36 KJV)

    So there was a time when Paul left many churches without any elders at all. Some might say, "how could they function without elders. who is over them?" well God is over them all and God works in them all to will and to do and to make them perfect unto every good work (Philippians Hebrews 13:20,21). Paul also told come to "let the peace of God rule ( govern) in their hearts and to Let the Word of Christ dwell in them richly. He said a similar thing in Acts 20 to the Ephesians elders he commended them to God and the word of His grace which was able to build them up. We need to trust that Jesus Christ working as the head in the body and effectually working in the measure of every part can build His church.

    Yes I feel for such men. They are in a trap and even if they are godly men they hinder God's order. They need to step down and gather in homes with other believers and wait on the Lord as all are commanded to do. This will be hard for many, almost impossible for some. But unless the body is free to edify one another every time they gather as the church, then the pastor fights against the command and order of God, no matter what good things they might have.

    Sometimes good is the enemy of the best. People might say well it is good enough. But it is not Gods order and so there will always be many problems and hinderances and Christ may be outside knocking wanting to come in and sup with them and participate with them. But they think all is well.

    Also many so called "pastors" get burned out often. The statistics are large in this area. That is in part because many of them are not functioning as God intended, despite all their long hours of study and ministry and helping others. The body is not one member but many and none can say to the other part "I have no need of you".


    I do have faith in my heavenly Father and he has been changing it for a long time. But many love to have the traditions of men. Just as God warned them that when they want a king to rule over them they dd not want God to reign over them, it is similar today.

    Bless you too, and good to talk to you.

    On a personal note I have worked in home meetings and helped to plant churches in homes for many years . We had about 6 home meetings that were going on for about 18 years. This order was wonderful among us and still is. This work of planting churches in God's order is difficult today because of the many wrong traditions that have sprung up that make the word of God of no effect. But I trust in the Lord and His leading and what he has shown me. It is "awesome"
     
  9. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    I have been ordained (recognized and chosen) by other elders in the gatherings. But, before this I was called and sent by God directly to do the work I have been doing for almost 30 years. I am a sent one and I have heard the call clearly many times.

    The order I speak of was shown in scripture by the Spirit of God to me in many various aspects. I met with many other workers who see these things as well. I find that the ones who have certain gifts are shown and gifted in that area different things than others. For example a teacher is gifted by the Spirit to teach. A evangelist is gifted to evangelist an apostle is gifted to do the work or church planting and preaching the gospel and other aspects. Some who are pastors or prophets etc may not see the exact same things as the others. That is why all are needed as one body and every joint supplies.
     
  10. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    Hello, yes some good points.

    A note however the word office simply relates to a function. All have some office in the church as Romans 12 says.

    "4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: 5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another."(Romans 12:4,5 KJV)

    The word "office" here means "practice or function, deed or work.

    This is not like our modern world would use the word. It related to function or as you put it empowerment in the gifts given by God. Pastor and teacher etc, are not so much titles as functions and gifts.
     
  11. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    No hate here, I love those whom the Lord send me. I care deeply for these assemblies who are bound up under man mad traditions and who fight against the commandments of the lord for body ministry ( 1 Cor 14_26-38, 1 Peter 4:10,11, 1 Thess. 5:11, Colossians 3:15,16, Ephesians 4:11-16, Romans 12:1-8 etc etc)

    If you read the so called unbiblical man made by laws called "constitutions" of many churches, you will see that under the ministry section is one man, the pastor. he has absolute authority over the entire church and all its activities. He alone is said to have freedom of the pulpit and the elders are to be the supportive arm of the pastor at the "direction of the pastor". But all this is unbiblical. Since when is scripture does the pastor have control of all the activities in the assembly.

    I will read from a Pentecostal assembly by law about the one man under the ministry section called the pastor.

    "he shall provide for all the services of the assembly, no person shall be invited to speak or to preach in the assembly without his approval"

    "the pastor shall be the spiritual overseer of the assembly and of all it's activities"
    and that "the pastor has freedom of the pulpit"

    This fights against the free body ministry as all are led in 1 Cor 14"26-38, 1 Peter 4:10,11 etc etc etc). Many assemblies have similar in their man made laws and by laws.

    These man made commandments are to be rejected and warned against as we read in scripture.

    "13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth."(Titus 1:13,14 KJV)

    "
     
  12. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    Apostles did work as Paul did and he occasionally took others carnal things after ministering spiritual things to them. But he did not want to make the gospel of Christ chargeable.

    Apostolic and itinerant workers such as some who travel and evangelist for a time, are able to receive benefits from others, food and shelter and whatever is needed. But they are not local elders who were told to work with their own hands in Acts 20. Even though itinerant workers can receive some help in find shelter and even money if needed. They don't have to do this. But i don't see local elders who work being able to get a regular salary.

    I know this one causes a great deal of stress and argument. But scriptures is clear jesus said freely ye have received freely give.
     
  13. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    I don't know what work this is that you were called directly by God to do for almost 30 years. The Apostle Paul was called to be an Apostle to the gentiles, directly by revelation of Jesus Christ, but did not become and Apostle without being first confirmed by the other Apostles and the laying on of hands. That same Apostle wrote of the importance of maintaining a certain order in the Church and in her gatherings. Thus, to some significant extent, hierarchical orgnaization should be recognized as proper.
     
  14. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    Paul said

    "For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church."(1 Cor 4:17 KJV)

    "For God is not the
    author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."(1 Cor 14:33 KJV)

    "For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest
    set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:"(Titus 1:5 KJV)


    "15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know
    how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."(1 Timothy 3:15
     
  15. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    no you are in error here Paul said this

    "Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead"(Galatians 1:1)

    and he said of the other apostles

    "But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision."(Galatians 2:6-9 KJV)
     
  16. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    As far as God's order is discussed you may find this I wrote helpful

    Gods Order in the body of Christ
     
  17. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    Yes, I'm already well aware of these things regarding the Apostle Paul, and that all authority of this kind is from God, not men, yet he still had to be confirmed visibly by the the laying on of hands. This is from God and from Scripture: "While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, 'Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.' So after they had fasted and prayed, they laid their hands on them and sent them off." (Acts 13:2-3)

    Are you saying that Saul, who became Paul, was not sent off to his mission by the laying on of hands?
     
  18. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    This was simply for them to go forth to a specific mission, and Barnabas was also called as an apostle in that situation. He was a prophet or teacher by Gods gift before as the chapter says previously.

    The Holy Ghost said "Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.". They were sent on a specific mission.

    So the laying on of hands was by the church at Antioch, and it was a prayer for blessing and power. They were Sent by the Holy Ghost vs 4

    It looks like this is not saying what you are saying.

    It is God that gives gifts not men. God may use others to lay hand and they may receive the Holy Ghost. But the gifts God gives Ephesians 4:11-
     
  19. MyGivenNameIsKeith

    MyGivenNameIsKeith Well-Known Member

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    Bottom line, there are some bad pastors and there are some good pastors. And the position of a pastor is biblical. Some let the position go to their head and abuse it. It is not a position where one rules, but feeds and shepherds. There is no pastor king, just a bunch of yay-hoos seeking their own glory and tooting their own horn. As I said before, stop accusing people. There are some good pastors. It really stems from your own perception of the word used.
    It is used once in Ephesians 4:11.
    And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

    Ephesians 4 Interlinear
    11 2532 [e]
    11 kai
    11 καὶ
    11 and
    11 Conj
    846 [e]
    autos
    αὐτὸς
    he
    PPro-NM3S
    1325 [e]
    edōken
    ἔδωκεν
    gave
    V-AIA-3S
    3588 [e]
    tous
    τοὺς
    some
    Art-AMP
    3303 [e]
    men
    μὲν
    indeed
    Conj
    652 [e]
    apostolous
    ἀποστόλους ,
    apostles
    N-AMP
    3588 [e]
    tous
    τοὺς
    some
    Art-AMP
    1161 [e]
    de
    δὲ
    moreover
    Conj
    4396 [e]
    prophētas
    προφήτας ,
    prophets
    N-AMP
    3588 [e]
    tous
    τοὺς
    some
    Art-AMP
    1161 [e]
    de
    δὲ
    moreover
    Conj
    2099 [e]
    euangelistas
    εὐαγγελιστάς ,
    evangelists
    N-AMP
    3588 [e]
    tous
    τοὺς
    some
    Art-AMP
    1161 [e]
    de
    δὲ
    moreover
    Conj
    4166 [e]
    poimenas
    ποιμένας
    shepherds
    N-AMP
    2532 [e]
    kai
    καὶ
    and
    Conj
    1320 [e]
    didaskalous
    διδασκάλους ,
    teachers
    N-AMP



    4166. poimén
    Strong's Concordance
    poimén: a shepherd
    Original Word: ποιμήν, ένος, ὁ
    Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
    Transliteration: poimén
    Phonetic Spelling: (poy-mane')
    Short Definition: a shepherd
    Definition: a shepherd; hence met: of the feeder, protector, and ruler of a flock of men.
    HELPS Word-studies
    4166 poimḗn – properly, a shepherd ("pastor" in Latin); (figuratively) someone who the Lord raises up to care for the total well-being of His flock (the people of the Lord).

    [4166 (poimḗn) is closely associated with 1066 /Gedeṓn ("to feed the flock"), see Jn 21:15-17.]
    NAS Exhaustive Concordance
    Word Origin
    of uncertain origin
    Definition
    a shepherd
    NASB Translation
    pastors (1), shepherd (13), shepherds (4).
    Thayer's Greek Lexicon
    STRONGS NT 4166: ποιμήν
    ποιμήν, ποιμένος, ὁ (akin to the noun ποίᾳ, which see: (or from the root meaning 'to protect'; cf. Curtius, § 372; Fick 1:132)), from Homer down; the Sept. for רֹעֶה, a herdsman, especially a shepherd;
    a. properly: Matthew 9:36; Matthew 25:32; Matthew 26:31; Mark 6:34; Mark 14:27; Luke 2:8, 15, 18, 20; John 10:2, 12; in the parable, he to whose care and control others have committed themselves, and whose precepts they follow, John 10:11, 14.
    b. metaphorically, the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church, John 10:16; 1 Peter 2:25; Hebrews 13:20 (of the Jewish Messiah, Ezekiel 34:23); of the overseers of the Christian assemblies (A. V. pastors), Ephesians 4:11; cf. Ritschl, Entstehung der altkathol. Kirche, edition 2, p. 350f; (Hatch, Barnpron Lects. for 1880, p. 123f). (Of kings and princes we find ποιμένες λαῶν in Homer and Hesiod.)
     
  20. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

    +1,524
    Christian
    Isn't it interesting how there are five gifts apostles, prophets evangelist pastors and teachers, and yet the one Pastor gift is the one that dominates. This is not scriptural and came out of the false clergy laity divide in history. There is much that could be shown from history to show where this unbiblical modern role of the pastor today came from.

    we also read an interesting verse in 1 Cor

    "28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers,..."9 1 Cor 123:28 KJV)

    Isn't it interesting how no pastors are mentioned here. Yet these are set in the church. And yet many would have us believe that the pastor gift is to be over all and the main ministry and none else is free to minister as God commands in scripture (1 Cor 14_26-38, 1 Peter 4:10,11 etc etc etc etc etc)
     
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