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The Passion's Box Office #'s

Discussion in 'The Box Office' started by BornAnew, Mar 1, 2004.

  1. peanutbutter12

    peanutbutter12 Senior Veteran

    +222
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    I'm sure a lot of it will go to the Catholic church. And I'm sure a lot will hit his own back pocket. Not even pastors work for free, ya know. :p
     
  2. KennySe

    KennySe Habemus Papam!

    +251
    Catholic
    I think the producrs of "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy should give all their money to the poor.

    I think George Lucas doesn't give enough of his 'Star Wars" money to charity.
     
  3. KennySe

    KennySe Habemus Papam!

    +251
    Catholic
    Interesting perspective.

    John 15:13
    Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

    Romans 5:8-9
    But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
    Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


    1 Corinthians 1:23
    But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

    1 Corinthians 2:2
    For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

    Galatians 6:14
    But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

    1 John 3:16
    Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

    Revelation 5:6
    And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth
     
  4. CeCe

    CeCe Veteran

    +4
    Non-Denom
    Married
    :D yep yep

    I believe that whatever Mel chooses to do with his own money is between him and the Lord.
     
  5. Nate_The_Agnostic

    Nate_The_Agnostic New Member

    3
    +1
    Agnostic
    The Passion of the Christ is an instrument for Christians, with no real interest in teaching non-Christians about what makes Jesus so special.

    I may get some flak for this, but Jesus' suffering was not the worst suffering of all time. Plenty of victims of the holocaust match or beat Jesus on the suffering-meter.

    What makes Jesus special is the resurection. When Jesus rose from death, it symbolized a very important part of Christianity: Eternal Life.

    But how much of the movie focuses on that? 1%? The majority of the movie is spent on the crucifixion. And that's a shame, because there were much greater things in his life.

    Now, I know that the Christians in this forum don't feel the need for a lesson as much as I do, but I would have rather seen what Jesus stood for, what his beliefs were, his teachings. But, like I said, this movie is not for non-Christians.

    One of my friends, who is at seminary, had a classmate that asked the teacher "Is the antichrist really going to be named Nicholai?" The scary thing is that some Christians will take this as being as true as the scripture, instead of taking it with a grain of salt as a man's interpretation.

    But, then again, the scriptures themselves were some men's interpretation on the life of Christ.
     
  6. KennySe

    KennySe Habemus Papam!

    +251
    Catholic
    Hi, Nate. Welcome to ChristianForums. I see this was your first ever post. :wave:

    Yes, this movie may be more tuned for the Christian than for an atheist or a Buddhist, or an indigenous Yanamamo (sp?) of South America, or a Martian.

    However, what many "gripers" must take into account are some important points.

    1) The title of the film is EXACTLY what the movie is.
    We don't get the story of Jesus' birth or the story of St. Paul's conversion or the story of Martin Luther or the story of John Paul II.
    This is the Passion (the suffering) of Jesus.

    2) The movie is not to be a substitute for reading the Bible, and this movie does not claim that it is.

    3) The movie does not have ALL the ins and out of Christianity, nor does this film make such a claim.
     
  7. UGADawgs87

    UGADawgs87 Member

    32
    +1
    Christian
    ^ Exactly!
     
  8. B-Real

    B-Real Newbie

    50
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Mel Gibson deserves all the blessings that he has gotten by making this movie happen. It is amazing that when it comes to money a man will become popular, yet as in the story of the chicken that ask for help in baking the bread no one would help her bake the bread but all wanted to eat the bread. Why is it that all want to be blessed by the works of another man. All the profits of the movie belongs to him to do as he will. Charity begins at home :D :D :D :bow: Look to Jesus not to the money-
     
  9. BornAnew

    BornAnew New Member

    20
    +0
    Christian
    :clap: The Passion Climbs to $264 Million in 3 Weeks Source: Coming Soon!
    Monday, March 15, 2004



    The Coming Soon! Box Office Report has been updated with the studio estimates for this weekend. Be sure to stay tuned there for the final figures on Monday afternoon.

    Mel Gibson's The Passion of The Christ added yet another big $31.7 million in its third weekend in theaters to boost its total to a massive $264 million. The $30-million budgeted film, distributed by Newmarket Films, has moved up to the #23 spot on the all-time domestic blockbuster list, only three million behind Shrek ($267.7), and is now the second-biggest R-rated movie all-time, with only about $17 million to go to pass up The Matrix Reloaded for the top spot.

    The Johnny Depp thriller, Secret Window, opened strong in second place with an estimated $19 million. The $40 million Columbia Pictures feature debuted in 3,018 theaters and averaged a good $6,295 per location.

    Warner Bros.'Starsky and Hutch' dropped a spot to third earning $16 million for a two-week total of $51.5 million, while Disney's Hidalgo added $11.7 million in its second weekend for a total of $35.5 million.
     
  10. clinzey

    clinzey Active Member

    791
    +15
    Protestant
    Yup, there are lots of verses about the crucifixion. I didn't say it wasn't important, but it has no meaning without the resurrection. If the resurrection is the raison d'etre for the cricifixion, then the resurrection takes priority.
     
  11. SUNSTONE

    SUNSTONE Christian Warrior

    +205
    Non-Denom
    I think you can't have one without the other.
     
  12. patriarch

    patriarch Senior Member

    533
    +4
    Catholic
    "If the resurrection is the raison d'etre for the cricifixion, then the resurrection takes priority."

    Not in the order of time it doesn't. First one, then the other.
     
  13. Yahweh Nissi

    Yahweh Nissi "The LORD Is My Banner"

    902
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    UK-Liberal-Democrats
    Exactly. I would much rather not have eternal life at all then have it but without Jesus' sacrifice for my sins on the Cross - then I would have to spend eternity outcast from God, i.e. Hell. The crucifiction and resurection are at least as important as each other and if I had to say which was more important I would say the crucifiction. That is why the cross, not an open tomb or something, is the symbol of Christianity.
     
  14. Athanasian Creed

    Athanasian Creed Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Solus Christus !!!

    +148
    Christian
    CA-Conservatives
    1 Corinthians 15:17-20
    And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

    Seems to me Paul put great emphasis on the Resurrection as being the crux of the whole Gospel message - no Resurrection = no forgiven sins.

    As for the "Passion of the Christ" i was going to go see it but having read various articles i have changed my mind - not only is the movie steeped in Catholicism, there are articles that point to the fact that it may also be occultic in what it portraits.

    http://watch.pair.com/cast.html

    During his February 16th Diane Sawyer interview on Primetime Gibson claimed that ultimately everyone is going to “make it,” including Muslims and Hindus and all the rest, but the Catholic Church is the direct route. First, he said, “We are all the children of God.” Then when pressed Gibson responded, “It is possible for people who are not even Christian to get into the kingdom of heaven. It’s just easier [for Catholics] …. I’m saying it’s an easier ride.”

    Is that the words of a "man of God" ?? We are NOT all God's children. Only born-again Christians are children (sons/daughters) of God (Gal 3:26, John 1:12) All outside of Christ are God's enemies (James 4:4)

    See also this site for more on Gibson & his movie:
    http://www.svchapel.org/resources/articles/read_articles.asp?id=33

    May God give us discernment in these last days to truly distinguish what is of Him and what is of the evil one ! :prayer:


    Ray :wave:
     
  15. clinzey

    clinzey Active Member

    791
    +15
    Protestant
    Timeline does not equal importance. Moses delivered people before Jesus, but Jesus is clearly greater than Moses.
     
  16. clinzey

    clinzey Active Member

    791
    +15
    Protestant
    Exactly my point, thank you. :)
     
  17. Yahweh Nissi

    Yahweh Nissi "The LORD Is My Banner"

    902
    +33
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    Single
    UK-Liberal-Democrats
    You see - this is what is wrong with proof-texting. You can 'proove' most things by quoting a single few-verses passage. If you just look earlier to verse 12, you see that here Paul is answering a particular line of heretical thought - "But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrestion from the dead?[NIV]"

    You can see from the verses quoted below, from Jesus, Paul and Isaiah, that it was the cross and Jesus death and blood shed there that is the crux of the gospel. Of course the resurection was absolutely crucial as well, as seen from the Matthew quote. As said in the passage you quoted, without the resurection our faith is in vain, because without it any forgiveness of sins is meaningless - we would just die anyway. But as I said before - better that then an eternity with our sins unforgiven and therefore outcast from God.


    Matthew 16:21
    21From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.[NIV]

    1Cor 1:18-24
    18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
    "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
    the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
    20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.[NIV]

    2Cor 1:1-5
    1When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.[NIV]

    Gal 6:12-16
    12Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. 14May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. 16Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.[NIV]

    Isaiah 23:5
    5But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.[NIV]


    Also, look at the whole system of OT sacrifice which pointed to Jesus, which was fulfilled in Him - "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them." Mat 5:17 [NIV].
    The whole system, as far as forgivness of our sin by God was concerned, was based upon the laying on of hands on an animal and confessing your sins over it and it being killed in your place "He is to lay his hand on the head on of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him." Lev 1:4 [NIV]; the cleansing of sin/uncleanliness by blood "He is to slaughter the young bull before the LORD, and then Aaron's sons the priests shall bring the blood and sprinkle it against the alter..." Lev 1:5 [NIV], "But any sin offering whose blood is brought into the Tent of Meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place must not be eaten; it must be burned." Lev 6:30 [NIV]; and the casting-away of sins by the scapegoat "The goat will carry on itself all their sins to a solitary place; and the man shall release it in the desert." Lev 16:22 [NIV].
    There was nothing in any part of the system of sacrifices, used to make atonement for sin, guilt; cleansing uncleaness; etc, that in any way forshadowed/mirrored/pointed to, the resurrection.

    But what, you may ask, about the 1Cor 15:17-20 quote that does seem to say no resurrection = no forgiven sins? This post is already too long, so I will start another to answer that.
     
  18. Yahweh Nissi

    Yahweh Nissi "The LORD Is My Banner"

    902
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    Let us look at the whole passage from which that quote is taken.

    1 Corinthians 15

    The Resurrection of Christ

    1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
    3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
    9For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

    The Resurrection of the Dead

    12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
    20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
    29Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31I die every day--I mean that, brothers--just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
    "Let us eat and drink,
    for tomorrow we die." 33Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character." 34Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God--I say this to your shame. {Rest of chapter talking about resurection body - not relevent.}[NIV]


    First note the first few verses "I want to remind you of the gospel ... By this gospel you are saved ... I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures ..." In the very same chapter as 15:17 Paul makes it clear that, whilst the resurrection is a crucial part of the gospel, it is Christ's death that achieves the forgiveness of sins.

    So, gospel summary to v8, which makes clear death = forgiveness, and stressing in v5-8 just how many people saw Christ risen. Then talks about his and other apostle's preaching of this message which Corinthians believed. Then, starting from v12, goes on to talk about resurection. But in v12 he tells us why he is talking about this "how can some of you say that there is no resurection from the dead?" Therefore, we see that the reason for this next passage is to counter the heretical idea that has been going around that Jesus was not resurected. That is why earlier Paul was as such pains to stress that the risen Jesus had appeared to many different people on many occasions. But as this is the main point of the passage we aught to be cautious in trying to say what "the crux of the gospel" is from one verse in it as this is not primarily what the passage is talking about - especially when just before Paul did give a gospel summary in which he contradicted your interpretation of v17, that the resurrection is the crux of the gospel message and that no resurrection = no forgiveness of sin.


    So what does v17 mean? There are two ways of looking at it that avoid this contradiction; indeed these ways are not exactly contradictary, but either interpretation on their own avoids the contradiction.


    Looking at v12-16, we see that Paul considers their preaching "useless" if Christ has not been raised, that they are "found to be false witnesses about God". But what was it they preached? The gospel! (v1 & v2) And what does the gospel do? Save sins! - by Christ's death (v3) But the resurrection is a crucial part of the gospel (v4). Therefore, if the resurection did not occur then the whole gospel preached by the apostles is invalidated, because they preached it did occur and so are false witnesses if it did not, and so they can trust none of this preaching of the gospel - including the forgivness of their sins. So, (v17), they "are still in your sins". But, it is not the resurrection itself, or lack of it, which brought this forgivness, or lack of it, but the death on the cross.


    But if you do not accept this, if you think that it is the lack of resurrection which directly causes the fact that "you are still in your sins" - what does "you are still in your sins" mean?

    Word-to-word translations give:

    "ye are yet in your sins" [KJV]
    "you are still in your sins" [NIV, NASB, ESV]

    Now, let us look at some translations that aim to interpret/amplify that:

    "you are still in your sins [under the control and penalty of sins]" [AMP]
    So - the amplified Bible sees this conveying two distinct meanings - one is the fact that they are still under the penalty of sin, i.e. they are unforgiven. But the other is to do with how they are living their lives there and then - they are still under sin's control, still tending to do sinful things.

    "you are still under condemnation for your sins" [NLT]
    The New Living Translation just takes the former of those meanings.

    "you are still living in your sins" [CEV and NLV]
    But the Contemporary English Version and New Life Version both see it to mean just the latter of the AMP's interpretations.

    "And if Christ wasn't raised, then all you're doing is wandering about in the dark, as lost as ever" (all v17) [MSG]
    And The Message also seems to focus on their situation there and then rather then any future forgiveness, or lack thereof, but the language used could contain both meanings - the ultimate one if a metaphorical sense.

    So, which meaning is correct, or are both? I believe that there is a strong case for saying that it is just the latter. See v30-34 - particularly "If the dead are not raised, 'Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die'" and "Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning". Paul is quite clearly saying that not believing in the resurrection of Christ (and therefore no resurection of man) leads to temptation to sin now and ignore God, because they will just die anyway so what is the point of trying to lead a godly life. This is therefore what he is talking about in v17 - their believing the Christ is not raised is causing them to sin. It is not saying that no resurrection = no forgiveness from that sin.


    So, two interpretations (which are not contradictory, but only one of which is required) of v17 that do not suggest that the resurrection is the crux of the gospel and do not suggest that no resurrection = no forgiveness of sin. And these are not twisting the passage, but simply looking at it in context, looking at what Paul is saying in the verses lead up to it and from it, to deduce its meaning.

    God bless,
    YN.
     
  19. WestonParresia

    WestonParresia Believer

    58
    +14
    Christian
    Good job Mel. Just hope this isn't some tangent he is running on and dropping it later he is in the spotlight now.
     
  20. Cozmo

    Cozmo Actively seek a living relationship with Him

    +653
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Republican
    The Passion of the Christ
    Total as of Mar. 16, 2004: $270,706,537
    + Overseas Gross: $14.3 million / 6 countries

    ~=~ 4th biggest 3rd weekend ~=~


    :angel:
     
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