The Papacy: The ultimate insult to the Apostle Peter?

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
Well, he wasn't having all that much luck with the circumcision.
Which one of those epistles were written from or to Rome?
I never said any of his epistles were written from or to Rome. Peter was not much of a writer.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
open heart,
I didn't say that it wasn't and there was the regions of Judaea and Samaria who could have had gentiles to convert to Judaism but it was talking about those scattered which were basically jews. In any case that was before Peter got the vision of the clean and the unclean and Paul went to the gentiles and the ministry of the circumcision of Peter and uncircumcision of Paul.
Once again you are not paying attention to the correct time and using generalizations. Jerry Kelso
The churches Peter was connected to were not in Judea and Sumeria, but in Turkey.
 
Upvote 0

tz620q

Regular Member
Supporter
Apr 19, 2007
2,658
1,038
Carmel, IN
✟567,457.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
It's irrelevant. We know that Peter did not establish the Church at Rome. He was the Bishop of Antioch for many years before leaving and becoming Bishop of Rome.
There is one tradition that I just heard that Peter traveled to Rome in the 40's then had to leave when Claudius expelled the Jews. He went to Antioch, was Bishop there for eight years (if you believe Eusebius), then travelled back to Rome. Still this does not mean that Peter was the first Christian in Rome or the founder of the church there.
 
Upvote 0

jerry kelso

Food For Thought
Mar 13, 2013
4,845
238
✟104,142.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
The churches Peter was connected to were not in Judea and Sumeria, but in Turkey.

open heart,

1. According to the word the missionary journeys of Peter and Paul criss crossed. The difference was Peter was mainly to the circumcision and Paul to the uncircumcision.

2. The churches in Asia minor are not Rome or Babylon in Iraq they are mostly in Syria and Turkey.

3. The church at Babylon was elected spiritually with the churches in Syria and Turkey. This was in the Roman Empire but was not the city of Rome or the Roman church.

4. The church at Babylon saluting them was not in a time of persecution beyond measure like in Jacob's trouble or closer to A.D. 70. Peter was exhorting about being tried with fire and the arm of suffering for the flesh ceasing from sin and doing what the government says. This doesn't fit the time of the revolt of the jews against Rome in 70 A.D. or leading up to it.

5. Peter and Paul if I recall both were martyred pretty close together. Paul was imprisoned in Rome and he said Luke was the only with me and wanted Peter to bring Marcus with him. This would have been different circumstances and the time factor would be different than when Peter wrote his first epistle.

6. The main ties of Marcus to Peter has to do with the area of Mesopotamian area of Babylon which was around the Nile of which there was a city that was prominent even in Joseph and Mary's day when they fled to Egypt from the wrath of Herod.
This would even connect with those from this area on the Day of Pentecost.

7. 1 Peter 5:13 implies and would make more sense that Marcus was with Peter in Babylon in Egypt and not in Asia Minor and definitely not Rome.

8. Claudius ordered the jews to leave Rome when Paul departed from Athens and came to Corinth. Peter wasn't even mentioned in this passage which had to do with Aquila and Priscilla co workers of Paul.

9. So the code word Rome for babylon doesn't fit the context or the time factor of 1 Peter 5:13 but Babylon in Egypt, the Mesopotamia delta of the Nile and Asia Minor. It does fit the connection with Peter and Marcus from the early church on to 70 A.D. There is definitely no sufficient evidence that Peter was connected to Rome as the Apostle and the head of the AS of the catholic church who can't prove it biblically and they agree. Jerry Kelso
 
Upvote 0

jerry kelso

Food For Thought
Mar 13, 2013
4,845
238
✟104,142.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
This very much worth sitting through people:


antletems,

1. Stevie Ray is misusing scripture in the old testament of Isaiah and this is why the church as a whole is so filled with the law mentality.

2. The seat of Moses didn't pass on to Peter and Peter being the rock that the rest of the church is under his authority and the popes is adding to the scripture and cannot be validated.

3. The old argument of the keys of David is still misused concerning binding and loosing etc. The KOH reign is in a different age than the old testament of the law of Moses and the church age both. This kingdom was offered to the jews only and they rejected it.
Isaiah 9:6-7 was about the son being the Messiah and the government on his shoulders. This was a physical rule and hasn't happened yet. It was conditioned by obedience of Israel and not the church for their was no church or no promise of the head of the nations except for to Israel. This physical rule is future and cannot be applied a spiritual millennium in the church age. The church and the KOH are two different things and the cc will doing anything to make one believe that they are not. Many gentiles I have talked to know nothing much about the true message of the KOH and the KOG that Jesus preached and why it is not a message to the church and new covenant theology and what that means and more.

4. Revelation 3 to the Philadelphian church says, These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth and no man shutteth and shutteth, and no man openeth. The key is not a property of the church for Christ has the key of David and the open door is for those who are faithful and they will worship before thy feet and to know that I have loved thee. This is the promise of the coming KOH reign and not the church age.

I have to go but the bottom line is that the catholics spiritualize old testament scriptures to fit their narrative and their anti-semitic spirit of the leaders for they wish to do away with the jewish covenant of Abraham and David concerning their part of the covenant. Jerry kelso
 
Upvote 0

Goatee

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.
Aug 16, 2015
7,585
3,621
59
Under a Rock. Wales, UK
✟77,615.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Divorced
antletems,

1. Stevie Ray is misusing scripture in the old testament of Isaiah and this is why the church as a whole is so filled with the law mentality.

2. The seat of Moses didn't pass on to Peter and Peter being the rock that the rest of the church is under his authority and the popes is adding to the scripture and cannot be validated.

3. The old argument of the keys of David is still misused concerning binding and loosing etc. The KOH reign is in a different age than the old testament of the law of Moses and the church age both. This kingdom was offered to the jews only and they rejected it.
Isaiah 9:6-7 was about the son being the Messiah and the government on his shoulders. This was a physical rule and hasn't happened yet. It was conditioned by obedience of Israel and not the church for their was no church or no promise of the head of the nations except for to Israel. This physical rule is future and cannot be applied a spiritual millennium in the church age. The church and the KOH are two different things and the cc will doing anything to make one believe that they are not. Many gentiles I have talked to know nothing much about the true message of the KOH and the KOG that Jesus preached and why it is not a message to the church and new covenant theology and what that means and more.

4. Revelation 3 to the Philadelphian church says, These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth and no man shutteth and shutteth, and no man openeth. The key is not a property of the church for Christ has the key of David and the open door is for those who are faithful and they will worship before thy feet and to know that I have loved thee. This is the promise of the coming KOH reign and not the church age.

I have to go but the bottom line is that the catholics spiritualize old testament scriptures to fit their narrative and their anti-semitic spirit of the leaders for they wish to do away with the jewish covenant of Abraham and David concerning their part of the covenant. Jerry kelso

Steve Ray make 100% sense in what he says in the video. God bless you buddy
 
Upvote 0

jerry kelso

Food For Thought
Mar 13, 2013
4,845
238
✟104,142.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Steve Ray make 100% sense in what he says in the video. God bless you buddy

antletems,
Have you ever really studied out the word on this subject yourself? Do you understand anything about hermeneutics and how he arrived at what he said specifically? Or do you just have a general answer that doesn't really answer anything at all? Jerry Kelso
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

jerry kelso

Food For Thought
Mar 13, 2013
4,845
238
✟104,142.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
In Revelation, Babylon is the city on seven hills -- that's Rome.

open heart,

1. Babylon as 7 mountains in Rome are not the subject of the 7 heads and 10 horns.

2. These seven heads are seven mountains are talking about kingdoms for they have 7 kings. Five were fallen, 1 was and 1 to come and the eighth was of the 7th and yet was after.

3. These are concerning Israel and the nations that oppressed them down through the ages. Egypt was the first kingdom, the 2nd was Assyria, the third was Babylon, the fourth was Medo-Persia, the fifth was Greece. The sixth was present in John's day which was Rome. The seventh will be the Revised Roman Empire which will be the 10 horns of which the antichrist will come up through and pluck up 3 of the 10 horns and even he is the eighth. The other horns hate the harlot and want to get rid of the religious system and they will give their power to the beast and he will get rid of the religious system and then begin the antichrist kingdom with his own religion.
If the seven hills of Rome were the subject it would have to be believed that the seven hills were flattened. The first five would have been flattened before John then there would only be one in Rome at that time and it would be flattened. Then the 7th hill would have to be moved to the eighth. The seven kingdoms are also separate kingdoms down through the ages that oppressed to Israel. Jerry Kelso
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Goatee

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.
Aug 16, 2015
7,585
3,621
59
Under a Rock. Wales, UK
✟77,615.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Divorced
antletems,
Have you ever really studied out the word on this subject yourself? Do you understand anything about hermeneutics and how he arrived at what he said specifically? Or do you just have a general answer that doesn't really answer anything at all? Jerry Kelso

Having studied the Video it all seems right to me but as you are dead against Catholicism you are bound to try all means to put it down!! How else would you react!?

Its a rewarding video and its nice to see an 'expert' explain the 'whole' story of Peter and the Keys etc.
 
Upvote 0

jerry kelso

Food For Thought
Mar 13, 2013
4,845
238
✟104,142.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Having studied the Video it all seems right to me but as you are dead against Catholicism you are bound to try all means to put it down!! How else would you react!?

Its a rewarding video and its nice to see an 'expert' explain the 'whole' story of Peter and the Keys etc.

antletems,

1. I have always said it is not about being dead set against catholicism. I have never put down everything the catholic church believes and I have said they had much truth about doctrines such as salvation, the God man etc.

2. I have said they were like the pharisees and the sadducees who mixed in men's traditions and they were hypocrites doing some commandments with a hypocritical spirit such as giving alms for show. Matthew 6.

3. I have gotten on the protestants about faith alone without being afraid to mention what obedient works are and the fruit. There is justification by grace and justification by works and they are both in connection with salvation and are two different things. Many faith alone proponents don't want to mention the word work anywhere in the act of salvation and many catholics want to interject works of merit to appease God. It is true in the old testament they were not perfected in their salvation and they were required to do and live the specific commandments but this keeping of a commandment didn't actually save them because it didn't have the power to save for it is the blood that brings remission of sins. If it was just about doing commandments nobody could be saved because they could not keep it perfectly all the time and the blood of bulls blood was not sufficient of a sacrifice.

4. We do commandments because of pure love for God not because we have to try and work up to a code of conduct. This is the problem with the church today in many circles; they are into doing instead of being and this brings the mentality of works to merit.

5. The commandments we do have to be because of who we are in Christ and his power and because of what he requires. But these works of obedience are because of the standard of grace and virtue of a life in Christ not because you merely have to do a work to try and be good enough for God.

6. Doing commandments as far as things that show the character of Christ involves the commandment of love. Jesus said under the age of the old testament that was replaced by the new covenant when Israel rejected the KOH and the KOG message that he gave them a new commandment that ye love one another as I have loved you. Many take this as love was the mark of Jesus teaching the new covenant to the jews in that day and act like there was no true love before this. This is crazy because the 2 biggest commandments of the law were Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind and soul and they neighbor as thyself.
Jesus was preaching a love of who they were and was prophetic of what would come and could only come to perfect at the cross.

7. There is never an absence of a work because of what involves the mark of what you believe within those parameters. Justification of grace initiates salvation for no work of a human within itself or meriting to appease and be acceptable to God could. But if you don't obey and follow through then it shows that you never really believed what you said you believed. It is the difference between being a mere professing and reality of truth.

8. I have also received criticism about the history and the dispensational aspect of the KOH and the KOG from protestants and catholics both of who are both gentiles.

9. So to say to give the perception I just want to down catholicism because I don't like it is not true. It is all about the truth of the word and what it really says and means according to the plan of God.
You taute stevie ray as an expert because he came out of faith alone and because he can explain his context real good. There are other people who were catholics that turned to being a protestant and can explain the difference about the doctrines of what they believed and what they believe to be true now.

10. The bible says to be like the bereans to see whether or not teachers that say they have the truth are telling the truth. Can you think for yourself and understand for yourself the word in depth because it doesn't seem like you have shown that. One is supposed to study to show themselves approved of God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed. Man is not always perfect in their knowledge and you can't take one's words because it sounds good or right.


11. What makes you think that he is an expert? Because he is a good speaker, or what he says sounds right or because he is supposedly with the right church?Everyone wants to believe that it is all about what they say that the bible says but how do you know if you have to point to them and not be able to articulate in some way clear enough of what they say is true. Can you do this? If you can't you might be a good candidate to be blown away by every wind of doctrine.

12. There are many things that both catholics and protestants can learn from each other in their personal relationship with God and doctrinally because no man is an island unto themselves. It has to be grounded upon the foundation of the word and it's truths which for the major doctrines are absolute and clear enough to understand.

13. The cc has made a history of perception and in action that protestants wouldn't have been able to know the truth and be saved without the cc church which is not true. Jews are the ones who have given us the bible and there were faithful men down through the years other than the cc.

14. It is clear you believe your teachers, can you tell me specifically and hermeneutically how they achieved their answer? Do you understand hermeneutics at all or is just enough to take their word for it? Let me know. Jerry kelso
 
Upvote 0

Goatee

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.
Aug 16, 2015
7,585
3,621
59
Under a Rock. Wales, UK
✟77,615.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Divorced
antletems,

1. I have always said it is not about being dead set against catholicism. I have never put down everything the catholic church believes and I have said they had much truth about doctrines such as salvation, the God man etc.

2. I have said they were like the pharisees and the sadducees who mixed in men's traditions and they were hypocrites doing some commandments with a hypocritical spirit such as giving alms for show. Matthew 6.

3. I have gotten on the protestants about faith alone without being afraid to mention what obedient works are and the fruit. There is justification by grace and justification by works and they are both in connection with salvation and are two different things. Many faith alone proponents don't want to mention the word work anywhere in the act of salvation and many catholics want to interject works of merit to appease God. It is true in the old testament they were not perfected in their salvation and they were required to do and live the specific commandments but this keeping of a commandment didn't actually save them because it didn't have the power to save for it is the blood that brings remission of sins. If it was just about doing commandments nobody could be saved because they could not keep it perfectly all the time and the blood of bulls blood was not sufficient of a sacrifice.

4. We do commandments because of pure love for God not because we have to try and work up to a code of conduct. This is the problem with the church today in many circles; they are into doing instead of being and this brings the mentality of works to merit.

5. The commandments we do have to be because of who we are in Christ and his power and because of what he requires. But these works of obedience are because of the standard of grace and virtue of a life in Christ not because you merely have to do a work to try and be good enough for God.

6. Doing commandments as far as things that show the character of Christ involves the commandment of love. Jesus said under the age of the old testament that was replaced by the new covenant when Israel rejected the KOH and the KOG message that he gave them a new commandment that ye love one another as I have loved you. Many take this as love was the mark of Jesus teaching the new covenant to the jews in that day and act like there was no true love before this. This is crazy because the 2 biggest commandments of the law were Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind and soul and they neighbor as thyself.
Jesus was preaching a love of who they were and was prophetic of what would come and could only come to perfect at the cross.

7. There is never an absence of a work because of what involves the mark of what you believe within those parameters. Justification of grace initiates salvation for no work of a human within itself or meriting to appease and be acceptable to God could. But if you don't obey and follow through then it shows that you never really believed what you said you believed. It is the difference between being a mere professing and reality of truth.

8. I have also received criticism about the history and the dispensational aspect of the KOH and the KOG from protestants and catholics both of who are both gentiles.

9. So to say to give the perception I just want to down catholicism because I don't like it is not true. It is all about the truth of the word and what it really says and means according to the plan of God.
You taute stevie ray as an expert because he came out of faith alone and because he can explain his context real good. There are other people who were catholics that turned to being a protestant and can explain the difference about the doctrines of what they believed and what they believe to be true now.

10. The bible says to be like the bereans to see whether or not teachers that say they have the truth are telling the truth. Can you think for yourself and understand for yourself the word in depth because it doesn't seem like you have shown that. One is supposed to study to show themselves approved of God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed. Man is not always perfect in their knowledge and you can't take one's words because it sounds good or right.


11. What makes you think that he is an expert? Because he is a good speaker, or what he says sounds right or because he is supposedly with the right church?Everyone wants to believe that it is all about what they say that the bible says but how do you know if you have to point to them and not be able to articulate in some way clear enough of what they say is true. Can you do this? If you can't you might be a good candidate to be blown away by every wind of doctrine.

12. There are many things that both catholics and protestants can learn from each other in their personal relationship with God and doctrinally because no man is an island unto themselves. It has to be grounded upon the foundation of the word and it's truths which for the major doctrines are absolute and clear enough to understand.

13. The cc has made a history of perception and in action that protestants wouldn't have been able to know the truth and be saved without the cc church which is not true. Jews are the ones who have given us the bible and there were faithful men down through the years other than the cc.

14. It is clear you believe your teachers, can you tell me specifically and hermeneutically how they achieved their answer? Do you understand hermeneutics at all or is just enough to take their word for it? Let me know. Jerry kelso

Do you write anything without going over the top?

Now, i am sure that in reality you love the Catholic church and that this easter you are converting! Well done buddy!
 
Upvote 0

jerry kelso

Food For Thought
Mar 13, 2013
4,845
238
✟104,142.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Do you write anything without going over the top?

Now, i am sure that in reality you love the Catholic church and that this easter you are converting! Well done buddy!

antletems,

When one is so far under the radar it is not hard to go over the top of them and being that low is suspect of one dodging; in this case the truth. P. S. I don't convert to denominations. I converted to Christ long time ago. Jerry Kelso
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Goatee

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.
Aug 16, 2015
7,585
3,621
59
Under a Rock. Wales, UK
✟77,615.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Divorced
antletems,

When one is so far under the radar it is not hard to go over the top of them and being that low is suspect of one dodging; in this case the truth. P. S. I don't convert to denominations. I converted to Christ long time ago. Jerry Kelso

I am sure that one day you will see the light and come home. God bless you
 
Upvote 0

jerry kelso

Food For Thought
Mar 13, 2013
4,845
238
✟104,142.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
I am sure that one day you will see the light and come home. God bless you

antletems,

Mary worship, the mother of Jesus and the term, "Mother of God" as applied to her originated about 381 A.D. but was first decreed in the council of Ephesus in 341 A.D.
Where does the bible talk about specific sins against Mary and if they will incur a penalty about one's salvation?
This perception and implication in a statement like this surely points to one never seeing the light whether professing from the mouth or hidden in the heart. Jerry Kelso
 
Upvote 0

Goatee

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.
Aug 16, 2015
7,585
3,621
59
Under a Rock. Wales, UK
✟77,615.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Divorced
antletems,

Mary worship, the mother of Jesus and the term, "Mother of God" as applied to her originated about 381 A.D. but was first decreed in the council of Ephesus in 341 A.D.
Where does the bible talk about specific sins against Mary and if they will incur a penalty about one's salvation?
This perception and implication in a statement like this surely points to one never seeing the light whether professing from the mouth or hidden in the heart. Jerry Kelso

Well, religion has caused so many waves on this earth because of peoples disagreements so lets agree to disagree and carry on loving Jesus (and Mary for us Catholics)

God bless you buddy
 
Upvote 0

jerry kelso

Food For Thought
Mar 13, 2013
4,845
238
✟104,142.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Well, religion has caused so many waves on this earth because of peoples disagreements so lets agree to disagree and carry on loving Jesus (and Mary for us Catholics)

God bless you buddy

antletums,

True Christianity is not a religion but a personal relationship with Jesus and our purpose and destiny for eternity. Good luck with your religion. Love Jesus with all your Heart, Mind and Soul! Jerry Kelso
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
open heart,

1. Babylon as 7 mountains in Rome are not the subject of the 7 heads and 10 horns.
Jerry, All I'm saying is that Babylon is Rome. It's Rome in Revelation and it's Rome in 1 Peter. Christians referred to Rome as Babylon because of its pagan decadence. It is irrelevant to our topic what the 7 heads or the 10 horns were symbolic of. That is another discussion for another thread.
 
Upvote 0