The pain that non-borderlines feel from borderlines

[luvhisgrace]

Although I'm kind of new to this borderline personality disorder thing with my daughter I can assure you that its not always learned behavior. My child displayed problems back to early childhood. She would have crawled back in my womb if she could have. She was an emotionally needy child from birth - and completely, way way different from our other child. Our psychiatrist told me that many times BPD is not a result of childhood trauma or inconsistent responses - but ahs to do with the brain chemistry and size of certain parts of the brain.

 

[Joanne P]

BPD is definitely brain based and organic, at least in most cases. In fact, prefrontal lobes of those with BPD were found to be on average 26% smaller in volume. Also other emotional regulation areas, key areas, are significantly smaller in volume.

People with BPD process nonverbal cues differently in their brains, seen in brain scans. For example, faces which are angry OR neutral (one or the other) are processed in the way a NT would process angry faces. Ambiguity registers with borderlines the same as hostility registers with NT's. This is from scans, not verbal feedback... it is organic.

Heaps of other articles one can read, too. Bottom line is, borderlines deserve some empathy, understanding, and unconditional love. Love is the answer!

Google search brain+borderline and specify scholarly articles for lots of cool info.

 

[madison1101]

BPD is definitely brain based and organic, at least in most cases. In fact, prefrontal lobes of those with BPD were found to be on average 26% smaller in volume. Also other emotional regulation areas, key areas, are significantly smaller in volume.

People with BPD process nonverbal cues differently in their brains, seen in brain scans. For example, faces which are angry OR neutral (one or the other) are processed in the way a NT would process angry faces. Ambiguity registers with borderlines the same as hostility registers with NT's. This is from scans, not verbal feedback... it is organic.

Heaps of other articles one can read, too. Bottom line is, borderlines deserve some empathy, understanding, and unconditional love. Love is the answer!

Google search brain+borderline and specify scholarly articles for lots of cool info.

This is interesting information. I can tell you, that my ex would be the last to say I deserved empathy, understanding and unconditional love. When we broke up, our marital therapist told me that my ex was suffering from PTSD from having lived with me for 25 years.

I physically abused him, threw things at him, destroyed tons of personal property, traumatized our children throughout their childhoods, and threatened to kill myself whenever he tried to leave the house to go to school, or while on business trips. I was manipulative and angry for most of those 25 years we were together.

It took 20 years of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy with a strong therapist who was effective at setting boundaries. I also had to get and stay sober.

Respectfully,
Trish

 

[Joanne P]

God love you, you have really been through it. (((((hugs)))))

Now, tell me the ways you touched these same people's lives with unique love. BPD folks often have the ability for high levels of tenderness and compassion. Like a teeter-totter, their sensitivity extends both ways.

Be sure to love yourself for those "flip side" gifts.

As an aside kind of... I sometimes think how Jesus died for our sins and to save us, and He knew all our sins... they were in his heart in the garden and as he passed away. Feeling guilt may be on our part a sort of barnicle on our sins... "yes, I am forgiven, but.... my bad..." That guilt feeling will deminish our self esteem if we are not careful. Then we may love "less" in our day today. I think letting go of feeling guilty or bad is so important to maximizing our love power. Does this make sense... or maybe it is obvious... Anyway, jus' sharing some thoughts...

 

[madison1101]

Joanne,
Thank you for asking how I touched my family's lives with tenderness and love. I never thought of that looking at that aspect of my healing.

First, I made amends to each of them. I acknowledged what I did, and did not make excuses, or blame anyone but myself. My therapist helped me see that I was very damaged when I entered my marriage at the age of 18, and had no skills in coping with my feelings that were raging inside of me.

For my children, I spend quality time with each of them, trying to minister to them based on their personalities and interests. For my youngest, I try to encourage him in his studies, and give him space to make the mistakes he makes. For my daughter, and her children, I try to visit them as much as possible. (They live 12 hours away by car.) When I visit them, I babysit so they can go to work, because my son-in-law has been a "Mr. Mom." I also do a lot of chores for my daughter, because she grew up in my sloppy home where I never cleaned, she is a neat freak, understandably so. For my older son, we both love the Philadelphia Phillies, so we go to games together, and discuss the team regularly. For their birthdays, I try to give personal gifts that show my knowledge of their interests and needs.

For my ex, that was a challenge. At first, I was hoping we would reconcile. Then, he got married, and I wanted nothing to do with him, or his wife. It was not bitterness, but shame. I feared my children would prefer her to me, because she did not have mental health issues. Nor, was she an alcoholic, or morbidly obese, like I was.

When my daughter was pregnant with our first grandchild, she insisted that I invite her stepmother to the shower. That was when I first met her. Eventually, we started seeing each other at other family occassions. When my kids are in town, they stay with Dad and Rosa too, because I live in a small apartment. Rosa welcomes me and invites me to dinner, and to visit and play with my preschool grandchildren, so that my daughter does not have to drag the Munchkins 30 minutes to my apartment everyday.

I minister to them by first, making amends with them, apologizing for the wrong I did in the past. I pray for them, and talk with them. Just this past weekend, I sat with them, and my children and grandchildren, at a family wedding, and we had a good time. When Rosa's son developed a drug problem, she called me for help in getting her son treatment. In addition to my experience with my younger son, and myself needing treatment at some point, I also have a Masters in Social Work, and have worked in treatment facilities and psychiatric hospitals.

I hope this is what you were looking for.

Hugs,
Trish

 

[punksushi]

I've noticed that so much attention on this forum is directed toward borderlines and the pain that they feel, but what about the non-borderlines in their lives? Non-borderlines are at the receiving end of a very abusive relationship that the borderline dishes out.

Things like:

1) Manipulation
2) Control
3) Verbal Abuse
4) Push/Pull crazy-making

Borderlines do this and much more to others, and yet so many people want to feel more sorry for them, even though the have destructive personalities to the people around them.

I like your thinking. However they lose sympathy from me most of the time because they can just walk away. I wish I could walk away from myself and the drama of BPD!

 

[ausername]

Madison, thank you for sharing. You are saying things I wish my ex would say to me. It is helpful to me to hear a sufferer of BPD talk about how the experience has felt for them, and yet how they are convinced that patterns of behavior can be unlearned. A never-ending question is wondering whether people who exhibit these behaviors are carrying them out intentionally or not. You've said you knew what you were doing but didn't see you had a choice. You also said you made amends by owning your actions. If only I knew how someone who is in denial about the destructiveness of their behavior - in fact, who justifies it as other people's fault - can reach a place where they own their own actions unreservedly.

 

[Joanne P]

Joanne,
Thank you for asking how I touched my family's lives with tenderness and love. I never thought of that looking at that aspect of my healing.



I hope this is what you were looking for.

Hugs,
Trish

I think that's beautiful. Thank you for sharing. And yes, that I what I was looking for. Too often, BPD folks judge themselves so harshly. I love to hear the flip side of BPD, the gifts our sensitivity can bring. I bet you not only do you bring love into the lives of those you love now.... but I bet even in the depths of your symptoms, even in your most difficult years, I bet you brought a lot of positives into the lives of your kids and ex-husband.

I've seen a lot of BPD's having a hard time forgiving themselves for what is in essence just the way their brain was wired to understand and cope (or not cope). I'm a huge advocate for spreading love and understanding to those with BPD. Each day they carry on and seek solutions, they deserve merits and accolades. If they can take God's hand and know He believes in them, in their recovery, then the world can be elevated person by person.

I'm so tired of BPD's being seen as the meanies of the psych world. It's just untrue. Many are some of the sweetest people, just in need of love. Love is the cure!

hugs to you!

 

[Joanne P]

A never-ending question is wondering whether people who exhibit these behaviors are carrying them out intentionally or not.

BPD is a brain disorder, which can be genetic, environmental, or both. Please consider reading "Affect Regulation and the Origin of the Self: The Neurobiology of Emotional Development"... it is on google books. In it it even explains how children with BPD characteristics realize they are neurobiologically different "something is not right with me." They isolate and withdraw, learn to be defensive and afraid. Most all BPD behaviors (maladaptive) are rooted in fears.

God bless and I hope this helps.

 

[Joanne P]

I like your thinking. However they lose sympathy from me most of the time because they can just walk away. I wish I could walk away from myself and the drama of BPD!

Don't walk away from you! God loves you and He made us just as we are... Remember always, God makes no mistakes!

God bless!

 

[madison1101]

Madison, thank you for sharing. You are saying things I wish my ex would say to me. It is helpful to me to hear a sufferer of BPD talk about how the experience has felt for them, and yet how they are convinced that patterns of behavior can be unlearned. A never-ending question is wondering whether people who exhibit these behaviors are carrying them out intentionally or not. You've said you knew what you were doing but didn't see you had a choice. You also said you made amends by owning your actions. If only I knew how someone who is in denial about the destructiveness of their behavior - in fact, who justifies it as other people's fault - can reach a place where they own their own actions unreservedly.

The changes I made were the result of a combination of things.

1: I really strong therapist who kicked my butt and pulled no punches and set healthy limits.

2: A loving Christian mentor who helped me process my therapy sessions in light of scripture, emphasizing God's grace and forgiveness.

3: Having my husband move out, and fearing my kids would hate me for the rest of their lives.

Bear in mind, I was in therapy for 12 years with the same therapist who would never once let me make excuses for my poor behavior, EVER.

God bless.

Trish

 

[WalrusGumBoot]

I too, would like to know if there is some kind of support group for the people who are on the receiving end of the abuse dished out by those affected by a mental illness. My mother struggles with a diagnosed mental illness and has been in a state of denial about it for the past 14 years. It can be very difficult trying to maintain a normal relationship with her because of her illness. If anyone knows of an online support group for the people on the receiving end, I would appreciate the information. Thank you and God bless!

The website Facing the Facts is probably the premier support site for those in relationships with somebody with BPD. I am a member there as well. I do not have enough posts to post the link, but google the name and you will find it.

I was disappointed that this forum was mainly for the BPD sufferers because I was looking for a Christian-based site for those in a relationship with one, but I have found my time here to be helpful nonetheless because I see that there are recovering or recovered members, and that gives me hope.

 

[Tayl0r]

oops!

 

[GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta]

I like your thinking. However they lose sympathy from me most of the time because they can just walk away. I wish I could walk away from myself and the drama of BPD!

Why do you assume that they can walk away? Many borderlines don't let their behaviors be known until the marriage has settled. Borderlines often don't take no for an answer. They'll stalk a person until they give in and take them back. Short of a restraining order, what else can one do for such a person?

 

[madison1101]

Why do you assume that they can walk away? Many borderlines don't let their behaviors be known until the marriage has settled. Borderlines often don't take no for an answer. They'll stalk a person until they give in and take them back. Short of a restraining order, what else can one do for such a person?

Then get the restraining order for goodness sake. Don't take emotional abuse, and stalking from anyone. Nonborderlines can walk away. My husband left, even after I got better, and stopped acting out. Divorce is a very real option for people being abused by borderlines.

 

[DeepWound]

A great site to support NON's is bpdfamily.com

NON's are people who are or we're is a relationship with a person who has Borderline Personality Disorder and has or is suffering from the experience. I know from my experience of being married for 18yrs to a woman with BPD has me believing that I'm suffering from PTSD not only from the marriage but even more so from her actions after the divorce.

 

[Christoff]

A great site to support NON's is bpdfamily.com

NON's are people who are or we're is a relationship with a person who has Borderline Personality Disorder and has or is suffering from the experience. I know from my experience of being married for 18yrs to a woman with BPD has me believing that I'm suffering from PTSD not only from the marriage but even more so from her actions after the divorce.

Hey, it really is the premier place to go. I'm on there, its really encouraging. Anyone suffering from a BPD ex, will find encouragement and sympathy there.

Deepwound if you need any help or a friendly ear my name is christoff522 on there.

God bless

 

[bhsmte]

A great site to support NON's is bpdfamily.com

NON's are people who are or we're is a relationship with a person who has Borderline Personality Disorder and has or is suffering from the experience. I know from my experience of being married for 18yrs to a woman with BPD has me believing that I'm suffering from PTSD not only from the marriage but even more so from her actions after the divorce.

Same experience on my end and I would agree bpdfamily.com is an excellent source. For men, shrinkformen.com is also a real good site.

The books; "Splitting" and "walking on egg shells" are also excellent. When I read them, it felt as if they were telling my story.

 

[Goodbook]

HI am just checking out the Borderline forum. Am not borderline myself but there is someone who posts in the CF advice forum who is and she really needs help. I have had to set boundaries. I don't really know how to deal with it as she is attention seeking, destructive, and lashes out at people giving her advice. Yet she stays on the forum. On other occasions she seems normal, but always it has to be about her.
She admitted she had the BPD diagnosis, and PTSD.

She won't listen to scriptures. Won't read them herself. if we do give them, we get accused of being preachy.

I just want to add Borderline is NOT bipolar disorder. Two completely different things. Bipolar disorder has to do with moods and emotions. With prayer and deliverance, and renewal with the word of God it can be managed. Borderline seems to be more about personality and organic, possibly to do with faulty wiring in the brain, and can most probably be driven out by prayer and fasting, if its a stronghold.

I don't really understand it too much, but reading peoples experiences on here helps. I might suggest to the mods she move to a different forum, and get help here but she seems not to budge and makes life very difficult for people, sometimes lording over, sometimes attention seeking and mocking even when we try to empathise and help, and pointing her toward Jesus. She seems in denial about her diagnosis.

The same issues keep coming up over and over I've noticed. So, just keep this person in prayer.

 

[bhsmte]

HI am just checking out the Borderline forum. Am not borderline myself but there is someone who posts in the CF advice forum who is and she really needs help. I have had to set boundaries. I don't really know how to deal with it as she is attention seeking, destructive, and lashes out at people giving her advice. Yet she stays on the forum. On other occasions she seems normal, but always it has to be about her.
She admitted she had the BPD diagnosis, and PTSD.

She won't listen to scriptures. Won't read them herself. if we do give them, we get accused of being preachy.

I just want to add Borderline is NOT bipolar disorder. Two completely different things. Bipolar disorder has to do with moods and emotions. With prayer and deliverance, and renewal with the word of God it can be managed. Borderline seems to be more about personality and organic, possibly to do with faulty wiring in the brain, and can most probably be driven out by prayer and fasting, if its a stronghold.

I don't really understand it too much, but reading peoples experiences on here helps. I might suggest to the mods she move to a different forum, and get help here but she seems not to budge and makes life very difficult for people, sometimes lording over, sometimes attention seeking and mocking even when we try to empathise and help, and pointing her toward Jesus. She seems in denial about her diagnosis.

The same issues keep coming up over and over I've noticed. So, just keep this person in prayer.

Borderlines' have typically developed very strong defense mechanisms over the years.

This is why, denial is so strong with them as it is too painful to acknowledge personal accountability.