the PABLUM thread

[mourningdove~]

There is only one person who is personally identified in attack here, and that is me... all the other words deal with whoever is guilty of them, not named, not a personal attack...

To debate a message peaceably is one thing ...
to personally attack is very wrong.

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another;
as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

(John 13:34-35)

Granted, it is a very high standard ... and I have missed it often ...
but still, we are called to it.

 

[probinson]

I am wondering how many of us reading this thread are idiots?

I would say that none of us here are idiots. We're all adults, capable of reason, logic and independent thought.

I know that I am personally growing very tired of reading some persons continue to express their same personal objections to this thread, over and over again.

Then might I suggest you follow murjahel's advice and stop reading them. They're not all the same objections, by the way.

I realize that murjahel desires only posts that are in complete and total agreement with everything he says, and equally albeit incorrectly perceives opposition of any kind as a personal attack on him. And I also realize that where murjahel is, there you'll also be also to defend him. But this is not murjahel's forum. It's an open thread and an open discussion where all members are free to post opposing viewpoints.

Yes, we are each entitled to our own opinions ...
but I can generally comprehend what I read, when I read it the first time.

Then you should really be upset at murjahel's "out of the same mouth..." thread, in which he repeats himself verbatim on numerous topics throughout the thread.

There is talk in this thread about behaving 'condescendingly' towards others ...
but when persons keep expressing their same opposition to this thread ...
and do it over and over again ...

... well, I do wonder 'what it is' that makes them feel the need to keep interrupting and saying the same things to us, as if the rest of us here are idiots???

That you chose to use the word "interrupting" vividly illustrates that you view any opposition to what murjahel is saying as an "interruption", but that's simply not true.

Besides that, the exact same thing can be said of murjahel's posts in this very thread. In the OP, the stated intent was that this thread would be used to dumb things down for people not on the same "meaty" level as him. But he's only done that roughly half a dozen times and only in the first few posts of the thread. Beyond that, it's simply been nothing short of a browbeating and rehashing of the same points over and over (and over and over) again about how people just aren't capable of handling his allegedly "meaty" topics.

Now murjahel is certainly entitled to rehash the same points over and over (and over and over) again, but those of us who find it disturbingly condescending and rude are entitled to express that as well.

 

[Joy]

I am wondering how many of us reading this thread are idiots?

I know that I am personally growing very tired of reading some persons continue to express their same personal objections to this thread, over and over again.

Yes, we are each entitled to our own opinions ...
but I can generally comprehend what I read, when I read it the first time.


There is talk in this thread about behaving 'condescendingly' towards others ...
but when persons keep expressing their same opposition to this thread ...
and do it over and over again ...

... well, I do wonder 'what it is' that makes them feel the need to keep interrupting and saying the same things to us, as if the rest of us here are idiots???

yes you are absolutely right
it would easier not to respond with the same objections to topics it is not the op's who are making us idiots so please stop blaming them.
Even in the spirit=filled/chariismatics there are those who think differently but because I may not agree with them does not make then the bad guys

I am reminded of the words of Jesus in Luke 9
49 “Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.”
50 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”

 

[mourningdove~]

I would say that none of us here are idiots. We're all adults, capable of reason, logic and independent thought.



Then might I suggest you follow murjahel's advice and stop reading them. They're not all the same objections, by the way.

I realize that murjahel desires only posts that are in complete and total agreement with everything he says, and equally albeit incorrectly perceives opposition of any kind as a personal attack on him. And I also realize that where murjahel is, there you'll also be also to defend him. But this is not murjahel's forum. It's an open thread and an open discussion where all members are free to post opposing viewpoints.



Then you should really be upset at murjahel's "out of the same mouth..." thread, in which he repeats himself verbatim on numerous topics throughout the thread.



That you chose to use the word "interrupting" vividly illustrates that you view any opposition to what murjahel is saying as an "interruption", but that's simply not true.

Besides that, the exact same thing can be said of murjahel's posts in this very thread. In the OP, the stated intent was that this thread would be used to dumb things down for people not on the same "meaty" level as him. But he's only done that roughly half a dozen times and only in the first few posts of the thread. Beyond that, it's simply been nothing short of a browbeating and rehashing of the same points over and over (and over and over) again about how people just aren't capable of handling his allegedly "meaty" topics.

Now murjahel is certainly entitled to rehash the same points over and over (and over and over) again, but those of us who find it disturbingly condescending and rude are entitled to express that as well.

Your differences in opinion justify your personal attacks?
No, brother. I'm sorry, but you've got it wrong. They do not.

Even that you keep posting here and talking about murjahel in 'third person', as if he were not here reading this stuff, too ...
Where is the kindness in that kind of behavior, brother?

Surely, I will defend murjahel ... as I may feel lead to defend ANY brother or sister in Christ that I see being personally attacked or bullied in this forum.

But what I am no longer willing to do is to spend precious time with anyone ... even if that anyone includes you ... who remains fixed in their position, appears unteachable and unchangeable ... and yet is demanding to be heard, and at the expense of the interests of others.

 

[probinson]

Meat or fluff?

When talking about whether a message contains "meat" that is too hard for people to digest, it's naturally and equally as important to ask the question, "Is this really meat?"

Some people have a penchant for making things needlessly complicated. This can happen for a number of different reasons, but one of the primary reasons people do this is to make themselves appear superior to the one they're speaking to. I mean, why should I talk in terminology that I know you'll understand if I can use copious amounts of TLA's to obfuscate the clear meaning of what I'm trying to say to you?

I've had experiences with certain people over the years that are seasoned experts at making incredibly simple things sound overwhelmingly complex. We would say of them, "Why say in a sentence what you could say in a 25 paragraphs?"

In the context of this discussion on pablum level teachings, it's quite possible for a teacher to make things unnecessarily complicated in an effort to make themselves appear superior to their students, and then "dumb it down" to where it really should have been in the first place. While the teacher will contend that this was necessary because students simply weren't on his level, it very well could be because the students recognize fluff masquerading as "meat" when they see it. Of course, this is entirely unthinkable to the unnecessarily complicated teacher, who will simply dismiss you as being beneath them.

So I would like to encourage those people who may be feeling demeaned and belittled by the OP by saying just because someone alleges that they've fed you "meat" that you're unable to digest does not make it so. It's very possible that the reason that you can't receive from teachers like that is because they have chosen, whether deliberately or unintentionally, to make their message far more complicated than it needs to be and included hefty helpings of "fluff" to make it appear "meaty".

 

[Watchman4hm]

But what I am no longer willing to do is to spend precious time with anyone ... even if that anyone includes you ... who remains fixed in their position, appears unteachable and unchangeable ... and yet is demanding to be heard, and at the expense of the interests of others.

And here lies the problem..."Unteachable and unchangeable"...The pride of those words alone show the truth in whats being said by many here...All the while he demands to be heard with threads like this and COUNTLESS OTHERS THROUGH THE YEARS..

"who remains fixed in their position, appears unteachable and unchangeable"

Who deemed you two judges of who needs what?(when and IF you two ever learn correctly; just because Gods word says something its not your call to decide who to apply it to, for thats makes you judges of another mans servant!!!)..While he may not name names, I was quite aware and IN ON the many threads of pointed innuendo and the pridefulness behind it...Like another said here, EGO..."nuff said"..moving on...

 

[probinson]

Your differences in opinion justify your personal attacks?
No, brother. I'm sorry, but you've got it wrong. They do not.

There are no "personal attacks" here, sister. Although I would like to thank you for making it abundantly clear that the "some persons" you referred to in your earlier post was actually me (as if we didn't already know that...)

IMO, murjahel's OP is condescending and rude. That's my opinion, and it is not a personal attack on him.

Even that you keep posting here and talking about murjahel in 'third person', as if he were not here reading this stuff, too ...
Where is the kindness in that kind of behavior, brother?

You won't refer to anyone by name, instead preferring to refer to them as "some persons" in a thinly veiled attempt to make it appear as if your posts are not "personal", as if we don't all know what you're talking about. Please sister, remove the beam from your eye before you worry about my mote.

Surely, I will defend murjahel ... as I may feel lead to defend ANY brother or sister in Christ that I see being personally attacked or bullied in this forum.

I know full well why you're an adamant defender of murjahel, and I don't blame you for it. Anyone in your same position would do likewise.

But what I am no longer willing to do is to spend precious time with anyone ... even if that anyone includes you ... who remains fixed in their position, appears unteachable and unchangeable ... and yet is demanding to be heard, and at the expense of the interests of others.

That's your prerogative. Please feel free to ignore me if my mere presence in this thread bothers you so much, but I have just as much right to participate in these discussions as anyone else.

 

[hislegacy]

Now murjahel is certainly entitled to rehash the same points over and over (and over and over) again, but those of us who find it disturbingly condescending and rude are entitled to express that as well.

And the same is true with Gideon's threads where he is continuously condenscending and rude to the church et al.

Right?

Or is there a different standard?

 

[mourningdove~]

I know full well why you're an adamant defender of murjahel, and I don't blame you for it. Anyone in your same position would do likewise.

Hold on.

We have made it no secret in this forum that murj and I are married. So please, do not even suggest that we have.

And if I wanted to be a stinker ... and play like a little kid ... I could now infer much about you, and your 'association' with some others in this forum ... and accuse you perhaps falsely of some things, too. But that's just not me, Pete. That's just not me.

You will need to find somewhere else to play war. I'm not going to play; it just doesn't belong in this thread.

 

[probinson]

And the same is true with Gideon's threads where he is continuously condenscending and rude to the church et al.

Right?

Or is there a different standard?

Um, this thread has nothing to do with gideon.

For someone who continually insists that you have no problem with gideon or his message, it sure does show up in everything you post.

 

[probinson]

Hold on.

We have made it no secret in this forum that murj and I are married. So please, do not even suggest that we have.

Where did I suggest that you've made your marriage a secret on this forum?

See, this is a prime example of what I'm talking about. You're ascribing things to me that I never said and then saying that I want to "war" (exaggerate much?) with you.

Both you and your husband should try to keep in mind that not everyone who disagrees with you and/or your approach is out to get you.

 

[hislegacy]

Um, this thread has nothing to do with gideon.

For someone who continually insists that you have no problem with gideon or his message, it sure does show up in everything you post.

Your half right. No prob. With Gideon, but his message is off. Stated that plainly.

We appreciate you trying to fix us though.

 

[mourningdove~]

Where did I suggest that you've made your marriage a secret on this forum?

See, this is a prime example of what I'm talking about. You're ascribing things to me that I never said and then saying that I want to "war" (exaggerate much?) with you.

Both you and your husband should try to keep in mind that not everyone who disagrees with you and/or your approach is out to get you.

wow. Your thinking in this thread has gotten really twisted.
:o

You are falsely accusing, no matter how much you may 'think' that you 'know'.

Maybe you might want to step back from this thread for a few minutes, and take your concerns to prayer ...

 

[probinson]

Pete, you are falsely accusing, no matter how much you may 'think' that you 'know'.

Who am I falsely accusing? You keep saying this, but I have been very consistent and clear that my opinion is that your husband's OP is condescending and belittling. Where is the false accusation in that?

Besides that, when did you decide it was OK to start using my real name? According to your husband, it was a violation of the rules for another member to reveal his real name. Specifically he said;

..."so far they have broken rules and revealed my name which no one but me is to reveal..."
​

...yet here you are revealing my name.

Sister, again I say to you, please take care of your beam before you concern yourself with my mote.

 

[mourningdove~]

Besides that, when did you decide it was OK to start using my real name? According to your husband, it was a violation of the rules for another member to reveal his real name. Specifically he said;

..."so far they have broken rules and revealed my name which no one but me is to reveal..."
​

...yet here you are revealing my name.

You have been here for years; you have made it no secret here in this forum, what is your name. I broke no rules.
But if it will make you feel more comfortable, I will respectfully go back and delete your name from my post.

 

[murjahel]

It amazes me that some go from milk to meat very quickly, and others can spend decades and never mature spiritual meat.

The disciples spent three years with the best Teacher in the universe, and still were so milk demanding that they tuned out all the times Jesus said that He would die, be resurrected, be gone to paradise for three days...

The meat message did not soak in... (yes, I will face these disciples in heaven, but am not afraid of them being mad at me for saying this, for they know, and are ashamed of their former milk level... I am likewise ashamed for mine when I was too milk oriented to get the meatier message I needed)

The thief on the cross mentioned earlier today had a quick jump from milk to meat...

Paul went away after his conversion for two years, to restudy the Scriptures in which he had been mis-taught, and got into the meat of the Word..

I remember one who had been one of the leaders of the KKK, and after leading him to Jesus, and it was not a long time for him to get into the meat of the Word.. soon, his best friend was a black man in the neighborhood, he had learned some meaty lessons fast...

This thread is not for those just saved, just learning the basics of the faith, it is startling some that I am bluntly saying that if one is a 'saint' for twenty years, and still on milk, that is a shame...

Some may not like it, but I know that if there is a 'remedial Bible class' for some when they get to heaven, I am going to have to put a bag over my head if I have to attend.... for I have been a Christian for a long time.

Can't imagine anyone wanting to be told that 'remedial Bible' is their first destination class in the school of heaven...

 

[probinson]

You have been here for years; you have made it no secret here in this forum, what is your name. I broke no rules.
But if it will make you feel more comfortable, I will respectfully go back and delete your name from my post.

This is very true. In fact, I've been very open and transparent about who I am in general, and I really don't care if you call me Pete.

But that's not the point. Your husband clearly said it was a violation of the rules for someone else to reveal his name and that he was the only one that could reveal that. Yet you're someone else, and you revealed my name. So either both you and Watchman violated the rules in revealing another member's real name, or neither of you did.

 

[TamaraLynne]

I do threaten to sing and

and no one wants to hear me sing or see me dance...ya just don't!

Lets stop now...


okay

 

[mourningdove~]

I think sometimes, that some people are too proud ... or simply too ashamed ... to admit that they still have much to learn in this walk of faith. I am not one of them ... never do I think I've 'got it all', and that there is 'no more' to be learned.

I love my life today. I am learning some lessons that are really BIG for me, but actually are some of the very small ones ... the basic ones ... not unlike pablum ... that some of us just didn't learn when we were younger in the faith.

I am so very grateful to God to be learning at my age the 'little but not-so-little' lessons that may seem very 'basic' to some ... and maybe they truly are ... but they are new revelation for me, and a sign to me that God is still working on me and growing me in faith and hope and love. And in this lifetime, I personally do not know what could be much better or more meaningful to me than that ...

Having to step back and learn the smaller but 'not less-meaningful' steps ... it does not offend me. I have come to treasure the journey ...

 

[probinson]

I think sometimes, that some people are too proud ... or simply too ashamed ... to admit that they still have much to learn in this walk of faith. I am not one of them ... never do I think I've 'got it all', and that there is 'no more' to be learned.

I love my life today. I am learning some lessons that are really BIG for me, but actually are some of the very small ones ... the basic ones ... not unlike pablum ... that some of us just didn't learn when we were younger in the faith.

I am so very grateful to God to be learning at my age the 'little but not-so-little' lessons that may seem very 'basic' to some ... and maybe they truly are ... but they are new revelation for me, and a sign to me that God is still working on me and growing me in faith and hope and love. And in this lifetime, I personally do not know what could be much better or more meaningful to me than that ...

Having to step back and learn the smaller but 'not less-meaningful' steps ... it does not offend me. I have come to treasure the journey ...

This is an excellent post, and an excellent way to present the "pablum" messages that so many children of God are in need of. It does not condescend, it does not shame, it does not belittle and it does not carry with it an attitude of superiority. Rather, it is a message of Love, of hope, and of encouragement to those brothers and sisters in Christ who may not be quite on the same level as others in certain areas.

Had the OP been framed such as you just did here, it would have been an ideal opportunity to feed people what they need.

There's still plenty for all of us to learn.