The origin of the Pre-trib rapture theory? Paul himself?

[DavidPT]

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

I tend to think you should make this passage part of your signature, the fact you bring it up a lot. Apparently you must think this is the trump card Scripture that can't be trumped. And speaking of trumps, when the 7th trumpet sounds there are still some of the unsaved who are not even physically dead yet. How can it ALSO be the time of the dead in their case?

 

[ewq1938]

I tend to think you should make this passage part of your signature, the fact you bring it up a lot. Apparently you must think this is the trump card Scripture that can't be trumped. And speaking of trumps, when the 7th trumpet sounds there are still some of the unsaved who are not even physically dead yet. How can it ALSO be the time of the dead in their case?

The dead being judged in that verse are the righteous dead, who are judged for the first resurrection as we see in Rev 20. It is error here to think "the dead" here are the unsaved...

It clearly speaks of dead being judged then living people being destroyed...so that matches up perfectly with 7th trump events...the dead in Christ being Judged, the living enemies being slayed as in Rev 19. We also know from various scriptures that not all the unsaved are killed, particularly the end of Rev 2 makes this clear.

 

[BABerean2]

I tend to think you should make this passage part of your signature, the fact you bring it up a lot. Apparently you must think this is the trump card Scripture that can't be trumped. And speaking of trumps, when the 7th trumpet sounds there are still some of the unsaved who are not even physically dead yet. How can it ALSO be the time of the dead in their case?

I thought you understood that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order???

.

 

[DavidPT]

I thought you understood that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order???

.

The 7th trumpet involves the 2nd coming. That alone shows that I understand the book of Revelation is not in chronological order from start to finish. Yet you seem to ignore my argument, that being when the 7th trumpet sounds, there are still some unsaved who are not even physically dead yet. How can it be the time of the dead in their case?

From what I can tell, everyone that ends up at the GWTJ in Revelation 20, they literally rise from the dead in order to do so. Someone not even physically dead though, they don't need to rise from the dead. Therefore the GWTJ is not even in view anywhere in Revelation 11.

After the 7th trumpet has already sounded, the following is some of the things that come to pass at that time.

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Nothing in this verse fits the scene depicted in Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[BABerean2]

The 7th trumpet involves the 2nd coming. That alone shows that I understand the book of Revelation is not in chronological order from start to finish. Yet you seem to ignore my argument, that being when the 7th trumpet sounds, there are still some unsaved who are not even physically dead yet. How can it be the time of the dead in their case?

From what I can tell, everyone that ends up at the GWTJ in Revelation 20, they literally rise from the dead in order to do so. Someone not even physically dead though, they don't need to rise from the dead. Therefore the GWTJ is not even in view anywhere in Revelation 11.

We find several key things in Revelation 11:18.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

We find "the nations", who are those still alive.
See Matthew 25:31-46, for the judgement of the living at His return.

We find "thy wrath".
Multiple passages of scripture speak of the wrath of God, at the Second Coming.

And we find "the time of the judgment of the dead".
See John 5:27-30, for the bodily resurrection and judgment of the dead.

All of this agrees with the verse below.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

The judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18 is the same judgment found in Revelation chapter 20.

.

 

[ewq1938]

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


.

These are the living and dead in Christ that are judged when Christ returns. The unsaved are judged a thousand years later as per Rev 20. Two days of judgment. The righteous are first, then much later the unrighteous.

 

[BABerean2]

These are the living and dead in Christ that are judged when Christ returns. The unsaved are judged a thousand years later as per Rev 20. Two days of judgment. The righteous are first, then much later the unrighteous.

.

 

[ewq1938]

 

[BABerean2]

Christ returns "in flaming fire" in the passage below.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


When does the fire come in Revelation chapter 20?

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

.

 

[ewq1938]

Christ returns "in flaming fire" in the passage below.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Does it say he uses fire to exact vengeance on his enemies? Or does he come in it himself?

 

[BABerean2]

Does it say he uses fire to exact vengeance on his enemies? Or does he come in it himself?

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

.

 

[Seville90210]

In Revelation 20 it mentions only two resurrections, the first resurrection, and the 2nd one being when the rest of the dead live again after the thousand years. With that in mind----


1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


them which are asleep----this is meaning people who are physically dead.

them also which sleep in Jesus---this is meaning the saved of the physically dead.

and the dead in Christ shall rise first---this is the physical resurrection of the saved of the physically dead. The text indicates they rise first, followed by the rapture.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



Them who sleep in Jesus either have to rise when those in verse 4 and 6 do, or when those in verse 5 do. If it's the former, this indicates there are no more resurrections until the thousand years have finished first. One is to believe that when Christ returns, that being the 2nd coming, there will be no resurrections from the dead at that time?

The first resurrection can't occur at the 2nd coming if it already occurred earlier before the time of the GT. The resurrection of the rest of the dead also can't occur at the 2nd coming since it occurs a thousand years and a little season later. That leaves zero resurrections occurring at the 2nd coming if Post Trib is not true.

Do you then agree, since this is the logical conclusion if your position is correct, that there will be no resurrections of the dead when Christ initially returns? If you disagree, which resurrection will it be then since it can't be either of the two mentioned in Revelation 20?

Ahh yes, Revelation 20:5. That one gets a lot of people to believe in a Post Trib rapture, I was one too. I use to believe in a Post Trib rapture and that verse really sold me. I eventually changed my views after more studying with some help.

You're correct on the second resurrection. That takes place after the millennium and is a resurrection of unbelievers that will stand before God. Now the first resurrection, I too thought it meant literally just one resurrection because of the wording, first resurrection and second resurrection can only mean there's just two resurrections overall. And since the first resurrection is fine in Revelation 20:4, after the tribulation, than the rapture had to be post trib. That was my conclusion.

Well it wasn't until I stumbled upon in Matthew 27:45-53 and saw a resurrection of the old testament saints that were raised the day Christ died on the cross. This made me suspicious, and had me wondering if I was wrong about Revelation 20:5. My initial thoughts were, if the first is suppose to happen after the tribulation, why does the bible mention another resurrection that had already occurred? Does the word "first resurrection" literally meant just one resurrection before the second resurrection or did it have other implications?

So to make a long story short, upon numerous studies, I finally realized what the bible meant by first resurrection. It's a term to describe the resurrection(s) of believers - the first fruits - across three stages in time.

First Resurrection - First stage: (Occurred at the 1st coming)

* Jesus, the first of the first fruits of God.
* Old Testament Saints who were believers in Matthew 27:51-53.​

First Resurrection - Second Stage: (Will occur at the rapture of the church)

* The Bride of Christ, dead and alive the last 2000 years.
​

First Resurrection - Third Stage: (Will occur at the end of the tribulation)

* Only for those who in the tribulation who are beheaded for their testimonies as witnesses of Christ. Revelation 20:4.​

Note: When I had noticed Revelation 20:4 was only for those that dies in the tribulation, it pretty much sold me this can't be the rapture because the rapture is also for those that died in the past.

==================​

Second Resurrection (At the end of the millennium)

* For the unbelievers in hell and those that dies in the millennium.​

This was my new view after the revision. A few years later, I've stumbled upon a few websites that shared the same ideas I did like the one below, confirming this to be the correct interpretation of the first resurrection.

The first resurrection takes place in various stages. Jesus Christ Himself (the “first fruits,” 1 Corinthians 15:20), paved the way for the resurrection of all who believe in Him. There was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53) which should be included in our consideration of the first resurrection. Still to come are the resurrection of “the dead in Christ” at the Lord’s return (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and the resurrection of the martyrs at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 20:4).

https://www.gotquestions.org/resurrection-first-second.html

Did this answer all your questions in the last post? And if you have other scriptures that sold you on a post tribulation rapture, feel free to share if you like. Will be happy to share my perspective.

 

[DavidPT]

Does it say he uses fire to exact vengeance on his enemies? Or does he come in it himself?

These are good questions.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

What I find interesting is this---prior to verse 8 the last thing mentioned is this---with his mighty angels

Psalms 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

I don't claim to know exactly what Psalms 104:4 is meaning, but I do notice that it mentions angels and flaming fire in the same verse. And so does 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 mention angels and flaming fire in that passage. Per 2 Thessalonians 1:8 I seriously doubt the flaming fire is meaning in a literal sense, regardless whether there is some kind of connection to Psalms 104:4 or not.

 

[BABerean2]

Per 2 Thessalonians 1:8 I seriously doubt the flaming fire is meaning in a literal sense, regardless whether there is some kind of connection to Psalms 104:4 or not.

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Verse 10 above is connected to 1 Thessalonians 5:1, and Revelation 16:15-16.

.

 

[ewq1938]

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

.

You have misread the verse. It says he comes in flaming fire to exact revenge, not that he uses flaming fire to exact revenge. Rev 19 says he uses a sword not fire.

The flaming fire is a reference to the lightning speed of his return:

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

In flaming fire is regarding Christ not the unsaved. Flaming means a flash and fire is specifically lightning according to the Strongs. So Christ comes In a flash of lightning to arrive and take vengeance (the sword of his mouth Rev 19) on the unsaved and that shouldn't be surprising because we were told that before:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

This denotes the speed of his return like a flash of lightning. It has nothing to do with using fire or lightning against the unsaved. To think that is to misread the verses.


Just read Rev 19 where the battle is described and you will see ZERO fire or lightning used to kill anyone.

2Th 1:8 In A FLASH OF LIGHTNING taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:



2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

While this is the very next verse it is wrong to insert that this is "at the same time" as the previous verse. The return of Christ and the vengeance against those that know not God happens a long time before the "everlasting destruction".


2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

And this goes back to the second coming. If you think "in that day" means all these events happen on the same literal day you are misunderstanding the verses and we know that because of what Rev 19-20 present in detail.


************************




He comes so fast and brightly the use of lightning is used. He doesn't send down lightning bolts or anything. He comes in flaming fire not casts out flaming fire. The same exact thing is here:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

It's about the speed because lightning was the fastest thing man knew of in those days. This essentially is "light speed" and is what this verse is talking about:

Barnes:

In flaming fire - This is a circumstance which is not noticed in the account of his appearing in the parallel place in 1Th_4:16. The object of the apostle here seems to be to represent him as coming amidst vivid flashes of lightning. He is commonly described as coming in clouds, and to that common description there is here added the image of incessant lightnings, as if the whole heavens were illuminated with a continued blaze.

 

[BABerean2]

You have misread the verse. It says he comes in flaming fire to exact revenge, not that he uses flaming fire to exact revenge. Rev 19 says he uses a sword not fire.

The flaming fire is a reference to the lightning speed of his return:

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

In flaming fire is regarding Christ not the unsaved. Flaming means a flash and fire is specifically lightning according to the Strongs. So Christ comes In a flash of lightning to arrive and take vengeance (the sword of his mouth Rev 19) on the unsaved and that shouldn't be surprising because we were told that before:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

This denotes the speed of his return like a flash of lightning. It has nothing to do with using fire or lightning against the unsaved. To think that is to misread the verses.


Just read Rev 19 where the battle is described and you will see ZERO fire or lightning used to kill anyone.

2Th 1:8 In A FLASH OF LIGHTNING taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:



2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

While this is the very next verse it is wrong to insert that this is "at the same time" as the previous verse. The return of Christ and the vengeance against those that know not God happens a long time before the "everlasting destruction".


2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

And this goes back to the second coming. If you think "in that day" means all these events happen on the same literal day you are misunderstanding the verses and we know that because of what Rev 19-20 present in detail.


************************




He comes so fast and brightly the use of lightning is used. He doesn't send down lightning bolts or anything. He comes in flaming fire not casts out flaming fire. The same exact thing is here:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

It's about the speed because lightning was the fastest thing man knew of in those days. This essentially is "light speed" and is what this verse is talking about:

Barnes:

In flaming fire - This is a circumstance which is not noticed in the account of his appearing in the parallel place in 1Th_4:16. The object of the apostle here seems to be to represent him as coming amidst vivid flashes of lightning. He is commonly described as coming in clouds, and to that common description there is here added the image of incessant lightnings, as if the whole heavens were illuminated with a continued blaze.

2 Thessalonians 1:8
(CJB) in a fiery flame. Then he will punish those who don't know God, that is, those who don't listen to the Good News of our Lord Yeshua and obey it.

(ESV) in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

(Geneva) In flaming fire, rendring vengeance vnto them, that doe not know God, and which obey not vnto the Gospel of our Lord Iesus Christ,

(Greek NT TR) εν πυρι φλογος διδοντος εκδικησιν τοις μη ειδοσιν θεον και τοις μη υπακουουσιν τω ευαγγελιω του κυριου ημων ιησου χριστου

(GW) He will take revenge on those who refuse to acknowledge God and on those who refuse to respond to the Good News about our Lord Jesus.

(LITV-TSP) in flaming fire giving full vengeance to those not knowing God, and to those not obeying the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, Isa. 66:15; Jer. 10:25

(KJV) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

(KJV+) InG1722 flamingG5395 fireG4442 takingG1325 vengeanceG1557 on them that knowG1492 notG3361 God,G2316 andG2532 that obeyG5219 notG3361 theG3588 gospelG2098 of ourG2257 LordG2962 JesusG2424 Christ:G5547

(NKJV) in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(YLT) in flaming fire, giving vengeance to those not knowing God, and to those not obeying the good news of our Lord Jesus Christ;


2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

.

 

[ewq1938]

Nothing here supports your errant interpretations. Even the first translation you provide disagrees with your view.

2 Thessalonians 1:8
(CJB) in a fiery flame. Then he will punish those who don't know God, that is, those who don't listen to the Good News of our Lord Yeshua and obey it.

(ESV) in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

(Geneva) In flaming fire, rendring vengeance vnto them, that doe not know God, and which obey not vnto the Gospel of our Lord Iesus Christ,

(Greek NT TR) εν πυρι φλογος διδοντος εκδικησιν τοις μη ειδοσιν θεον και τοις μη υπακουουσιν τω ευαγγελιω του κυριου ημων ιησου χριστου

(GW) He will take revenge on those who refuse to acknowledge God and on those who refuse to respond to the Good News about our Lord Jesus.

(LITV-TSP) in flaming fire giving full vengeance to those not knowing God, and to those not obeying the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, Isa. 66:15; Jer. 10:25

(KJV) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

(KJV+) InG1722 flamingG5395 fireG4442 takingG1325 vengeanceG1557 on them that knowG1492 notG3361 God,G2316 andG2532 that obeyG5219 notG3361 theG3588 gospelG2098 of ourG2257 LordG2962 JesusG2424 Christ:G5547

(NKJV) in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(YLT) in flaming fire, giving vengeance to those not knowing God, and to those not obeying the good news of our Lord Jesus Christ;


2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

.

 

[Chris V++]

I sorry I haven't read the whole thread. Hope it's ok to jump in. I remember hearing a pastor say there was a very utilitarian reason for the rapture which is to evacuate (Sort of like Noah's ark was for evacuation before the planet was destroyed with water:

'But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.' 2Peter 3-10

The same pastor (Church of Christ btw) said the Tribulation has been going on since Jesus ascended and is basically the persecution and corruption of the early Church, killing of martyrs etc. Is there any room for that interpretation of the tribulation? I don't know either way and have always been a little confused by the subject, but we've had plagues like the Black Death in Europe. Didn't one plague kill 1/3 of the population. Is there any indication of how long the tribulation will last and when it started or will start exactly? Could it be a 2000 year long tribulation?
Also, is Israel reforming after the Second World War a solid sign that all the prophesies will be fulfilled before that generation passes away? I know there is a verse that speaks to that but I can't locate it.
I did just find this Jewish website about all the different prophesies being fulfilled in Israel right now
True Indicators of the Last Days | Jewish Voice Ministries International

 

[ewq1938]

Is there any indication of how long the tribulation will last and when it started or will start exactly? Could it be a 2000 year long tribulation?

The start of the trib is found in Rev 13, and it lasts 42 months and then Jesus returns, found in Rev 11 which shows the ending of the trib.

There are always various kinds of tribs but "the trib" has special global events that just haven't happened yet.

 

[BABerean2]

Nothing here supports your errant interpretations. Even the first translation you provide disagrees with your view.

2Pe 3:5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water,
2Pe 3:6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

.