The orgins of Yahweh

[cgaviria]

I presented you with a Truth from Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 6. YHWH proclaims He is God and there are no other gods.

I gave you a deductive Biblical truth---Hear, Israel, Yahweh our God. You are engaging in inductive reasoning trying to come to a conclusion that is not Biblically supported.

More:

Zephaniah 3: Lexham English Bible (LEB)


14 Shout for joy, O daughter of Zion!
Cry aloud, O Israel!
Rejoice and be jubilant with all your heart,
O daughter of Jerusalem!

15 Yahweh has annulled your judgments;
he has turned away your enemies.
The king of Israel, Yahweh, is in your midst;
you shall no longer fear misfortune.

16 On that day it shall be said to Jerusalem,
“Fear not, O Zion;
your hands shall not hang limp.

17 Yahweh your God is in your midst;
a mighty warrior who saves.
He shall rejoice over you with joy;
he renews you in his love;
he will exult over you with singing.

Jeremiah 32: Lexham English Bible (LEB)

26 And the word of Yahweh came to Jeremiah, saying 27 “Look, I am Yahweh, the God of all flesh; is anything too difficult for me?”

36 “So now therefore, thus says Yahweh, the God of Israel, concerning this city, of which you are saying, ‘It will be given into the hand of the king of Babylon by the sword, and by the famine, and by the plague’:


Jeremiah 33: Lexham English Bible (LEB)

33 And the word of Yahweh came to Jeremiah a second time while he was still held back in the courtyard of the guard, saying, 2 “Thus says Yahweh who made the earth, Yahweh who formed it to establish it, Yahweh is his name: 3 ‘Call to me, and I will answer you, and I will tell you great things and inaccessible things that you have not known.’ 4 For thus says Yahweh, the God of Israel, concerning the houses of this city and concerning the houses of the kings of Judah, that were torn down to make a defense against the siege ramps and against the sword:



I just scratched the surface. There are more declarations of "thus says Yahweh, the God of Israel."


And as indicated earlier:




Exodus 20: Lexham English Bible (LEB)

20 And God spoke all these words, saying, 2 “I am Yahweh, your God, who brought you out from the land of Egypt, from the house of slaves.

3 “There shall be for you no other gods before me.

Deuteronomy 6: Lexham English Bible (LEB)


6 “Now this is the commandment, the rules and the regulations, that Yahweh your God charged to teach to you for you to observe in the land that you are about to cross over to take possession of it, 2 so that you may revere Yahweh your God by keeping all his statutes and his commandments that I am commanding you, you and your children and grandchildren, all the days of your life and so you may live lives. 3 And you shall hear, Israel, and be careful to observe these instructions, so that it may go well for you and that you may multiply greatly, just as Yahweh, the God of your ancestors, you, in a land with milk and honey.

4 “Hear, Israel, Yahweh our God, Yahweh is unique. 5 And you shall love Yahweh your God with all of your heart and with all of your soul and with all of your might. 6 And these words that I am commanding you today shall be on your heart. 7 And you shall recite them to your children, and you shall talk about them at the time of your living in your house and at the time of your going on the road and at the time of your lying down and at the time of your rising up. 8 And you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as an emblem between your eyes. 9 And you shall write them on the doorframe of your house and on your gates.(LEB)

This is hard evidence Biblical Truth. One must start with the basics to understand the complexities.

I'm going to ask you a series of questions, let's see how intelligent you are...

Are Iesou and the Father two distinct brings, yes or no?

 

[Commander Xenophon]

I'm going to ask you a series of questions, let's see how intelligent you are...

Are Iesou and the Father two distinct brings, yes or no?

According to the divine essence, no. However, the assumed humanity of Jesus Christ is a separate being hypostatically and personally united to the Godhood.

 

[cgaviria]

According to the divine essence, no. However, the assumed humanity of Jesus Christ is a separate being hypostatically and personally united to the Godhood.

They are two distinct beings, hence why Iesou is called a son, and the Father is greater than he as Iesou affirmed himself. To teach that they are not two distinct beings is a blasphemy.

 

[civilwarbuff]

To teach that they are not two distinct beings is a blasphemy.

And where exactly is that in scripture?

 

[Winken]

They are two distinct beings, hence why Iesou is called a son, and the Father is greater than he as Iesou affirmed himself. To teach that they are not two distinct beings is a blasphemy.

Jesus is I AM. He is the son of Mary, known as the Son of God. He had no physical, human father; He was Spiritually conceived. He was before time and space. He was with God; He was God. He, God, and the Holy Spirit, are an inseparable One: One God in Three. Jesus equalled God on earth as God's invisible, unimaginable Face, the Hebrew Messiah, the Savior of us all. God does not require argument, debate, a point of view, defense, or rationalization. He is.

 

[Commander Xenophon]

They are two distinct beings, hence why Iesou is called a son, and the Father is greater than he as Iesou affirmed himself. To teach that they are not two distinct beings is a blasphemy.

The Father and Son are distinct persons of one being according to their shared divinity, together with the Holy Spirit. It's not blasphemy, it's in the Gospel of John, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't accuse me of that. Especially since I have restrained myself from talking to you like that even when I felt baffled by some of your theology.

 

[supersoldier71]

They are two distinct beings, hence why Iesou is called a son, and the Father is greater than he as Iesou affirmed himself. To teach that they are not two distinct beings is a blasphemy.

That would be true except that it's completely incorrect.

"I and the Father are one." John 10:30

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." Deuteronomy 6:4

"I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one." John 17:21

Your assertion is SO far from actual, well-reasoned, spiritually-informed exegesis that it took approximately a minute and half to find scriptures to refute it, and that includes the time it took to cut and paste. Provocative, but not really thought-provoking.

Friend, I say this with genuine Christian concern: your soul is in danger.

Even if you truly believe these things--which I'm starting to believe you don't--the manner in which you approach people does carry with it the spirit of agape.

I am confident that you do not actually hold these opinions because I have a high opinion of your intellect, and am equally confident that you are engaging in a form of Socratic questioning with the intent of increasing everyone's understanding of Trinitarian theology.

So if, as I assume, you are a brother in Christ, I commend your efforts to strengthen the Body as a whole, and mean that without guile or ambiguity.

 

[cgaviria]

That would be true except that it's completely incorrect.

"I and the Father are one." John 10:30

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." Deuteronomy 6:4

"I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one." John 17:21

Your assertion is SO far from actual, well-reasoned, spiritually-informed exegesis that it took approximately a minute and half to find scriptures to refute it, and that includes the time it took to cut and paste. Provocative, but not really thought-provoking.

Friend, I say this with genuine Christian concern: your soul is in danger.

Even if you truly believe these things--which I'm starting to believe you don't--the manner in which you approach people does carry with it the spirit of agape.

I am confident that you do not actually hold these opinions because I have a high opinion of your intellect, and am equally confident that you are engaging in a form of Socratic questioning with the intent of increasing everyone's understanding of Trinitarian theology.

So if, as I assume, you are a brother in Christ, I commend your efforts to strengthen the Body as a whole, and mean that without guile or ambiguity.

"I and the Father" are one figuratively, not literally. Whenever a husband marries a wife, they are one, figuratively, not literally.

and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one flesh. (Mark 10:8 [NIV])

I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one-- (John 17:22 [NIV])

The elect are one figuratively, it doesn't mean that they are all literally the same person. Being one is a figure of speech to indicate a union, being of the same mind, it does not literally mean they are the exact same person. The Father and Iesou Christ are figuratively ONE, but they are two distinct beings. This is obvious to the understanding mind.

 

[civilwarbuff]

"I and the Father" are one figuratively, not literally. Whenever a husband marries a wife, they are one, figuratively, not literally.

And that is scriptural where?

The elect are one figuratively, it doesn't mean that they are all literally the same person. Being one is a figure of speech to indicate a union, being of the same mind, it does not literally mean they are the exact same person. The Father and Iesou Christ are figuratively ONE, but they are two distinct beings. This is obvious to the understanding mind.

Again, scriptural references?

 

[cgaviria]

The Father and Son are distinct persons of one being according to their shared divinity, together with the Holy Spirit.

This is a nonsensical statement. It's like saying, "My wife and I are distinct persons of one being". Its nonsensical. It should rather be said, "My wife and I are distinct beings that act as one". This is the same relationship with the Father and Son, they are two distinct beings that act as ONE. Even the holy spirit, another distinct being, and all these act as ONE, yet being distinct beings. The Father is not a pie broken into slices to thus complete him, he IS and has no need of ANYONE, and from him, comes forth the Son, and also the Holy Spirit, and these two draw their existence from the Father, from whom all things originate from.

 

[cgaviria]

And that is scriptural where?

Again, scriptural references?

Are you blind? I just provided 2 scripture references in that same quote you just replied to.

 

[cgaviria]

Jesus is I AM. He is the son of Mary, known as the Son of God. He had no physical, human father; He was Spiritually conceived. He was before time and space. He was with God; He was God. He, God, and the Holy Spirit, are an inseparable One: One God in Three. Jesus equalled God on earth as God's invisible, unimaginable Face, the Hebrew Messiah, the Savior of us all. God does not require argument, debate, a point of view, defense, or rationalization. He is.

Iesou was not before time, hence,

I will proclaim the LORD's decree: He said to me, "You are my son; today I have become your father. (Psalm 2:7 [NIV])

Whenever today was is when Iesou became a son to the Father. Today is in reference to time, and since time began in the beginning and we know Iesou pre-existed in the beginning before he became of the flesh, therefore "today" refers to day one of creation, which is when Iesou was brought forth into existence by the Father.

 

[nomadictheist]

This is a nonsensical statement. It's like saying, "My wife and I are distinct persons of one being". Its nonsensical. It should rather be said, "My wife and I are distinct beings that act as one". This is the same relationship with the Father and Son, they are two distinct beings that act as ONE. Even the holy spirit, another distinct being, and all these act as ONE, yet being distinct beings. The Father is not a pie broken into slices to thus complete him, he IS and has no need of ANYONE, and from him, comes forth the Son, and also the Holy Spirit, and these two draw their existence from the Father, from whom all things originate from.

Nonsensical only from a human standpoint, because we can only conceive in our limited perception of one being existing as one person. Thus some argue that what is impossible for us (for me and my wife to exist as one being but two separate persons, or more accurately for me to exist as one human being but two separate human persons, which are me and my wife) is also impossible for God.

It's also nonsensical from a human standpoint to imagine a being with enough power to "stretch out the heavens with His hands" who actually cares deeply about human beings who destroyed His creation by bringing sin into it, but that's what we believe.

It's also nonsensical from a human standpoint that such a Creator, who cannot abide the presence of sin, should care so much about the beings that He created that He would go to the lengths of sending His only begotten Son, knowing He would be beaten and killed by these created beings, so that these created beings could experience everlasting life and be united with Him. But that's what we believe.

Nonsensical is not an argument one can use against God, because "all things are possible for God."

 

[supersoldier71]

The son of God. And the son of God by the Father.

Here, friend, you have made an etiological, or perhaps a linguistic error? You are saying that Jesus and the Father created I AM? There are no accepted translations of the biblical text to support that assertion, so again, perhaps a linguistic error. I suspect that English is not your first language, and so perhaps you have misspoken?

Iesou was not before time, hence,


Whenever today was is when Iesou became a son to the Father. Today is in reference to time, and since time began in the beginning and we know Iesou pre-existed in the beginning before he became of the flesh, therefore "today" refers to day one of creation, which is when Iesou was brought forth into existence by the Father.

Here again, you cannot reconcile this to Revelations 1 when the glorified Christ identifies Himself to John as the "Alpha and Omega". One cannot be the "beginning" and be a created being. This etiological (or linguistic) error cannot be reconciled.

So again, my concern is that you are not properly digesting the text.

Again, I hope you are able to understand my concerns and the spirit in which they were formed: do you have a copy of the Bible in your native tongue?

God bless.

 

[cgaviria]

Nonsensical only from a human standpoint, because we can only conceive in our limited perception of one being existing as one person. Thus some argue that what is impossible for us (for me and my wife to exist as one being but two separate persons, or more accurately for me to exist as one human being but two separate human persons, which are me and my wife) is also impossible for God.

It's also nonsensical from a human standpoint to imagine a being with enough power to "stretch out the heavens with His hands" who actually cares deeply about human beings who destroyed His creation by bringing sin into it, but that's what we believe.

It's also nonsensical from a human standpoint that such a Creator, who cannot abide the presence of sin, should care so much about the beings that He created that He would go to the lengths of sending His only begotten Son, knowing He would be beaten and killed by these created beings, so that these created beings could experience everlasting life and be united with Him. But that's what we believe.

Nonsensical is not an argument one can use against God, because "all things are possible for God."

Nonsensical statements are not proven as true by merely saying, "we can't comprehend it". I can just as easily make a nonsensical statement saying that two perfectly parallel lines will intersect at one point and that we as humans cannot understand how. Theres a reason why it cannot be comprehended, its because its false, not because its a grand mystery. I've just proven through scripture that two persons are "one" as a figure of speech, not that they are literally the same person. The problem with most Christians is that they do not know how to differentiate between figure of speech and literal things, which is why there are so many false doctrines and blasphemies out there... Even in such simple matters that Iesou and the Father are two distinct beings... It's so obvious... It just makes me scratch my head how you people don't understand such simple matters.

 

[cgaviria]

Here, friend, you have made an etiological, or perhaps a linguistic error? You are saying that Jesus and the Father created I AM? There are no accepted translations of the biblical text to support that assertion, so again, perhaps a linguistic error. I suspect that English is not your first language, and so perhaps you have misspoken?



Here again, you cannot reconcile this to Revelations 1 when the glorified Christ identifies Himself to John as the "Alpha and Omega". One cannot be the "beginning" and be a created being. This etiological (or linguistic) error cannot be reconciled.

So again, my concern is that you are not properly digesting the text.

Again, I hope you are able to understand my concerns and the spirit in which they were formed: do you have a copy of the Bible in your native tongue?

God bless.

Does it matter what my native tongue is? Or are you just merely trying to make points of insults to imply im stupid? I suggest that instead of reviling me that you refute my statements with scriptures.

 

[nomadictheist]

Nonsensical statements are not proven as true by merely saying, "we can't comprehend it". I can just as easily make a nonsensical statement saying that two perfectly parallel lines will intersect at one point and that we as humans cannot understand how. Theres a reason why it cannot be comprehended, its because its false, not because its a grand mystery. I've just proven through scripture that two persons are "one" as a figure of speech, not that they are literally the same person. The problem with most Christians is that they do not know how to differentiate between figure of speech and literal things, which is why there are so many false doctrines and blasphemies out there... Even in such simple matters that Iesou and the Father are two distinct beings... It's so obvious... It just makes me scratch my head how you people don't understand such simple matters.

You have proven nothing. The Bible says there is only one God. The Bible says that "The Word (Jesus) was with God, and the Word was God." The Bible also demonstrates that the Holy Spirit is God. This means that we either have 3 Gods or one God who exists as 3 persons. I won't go over the other proof texts for the deity of Jesus here, because they have been previously posted on other threads.

The point is, two verses in John where Jesus speaks about oneness are not sufficient evidence that the above are not true.

False doctrines and blasphemies are born when we try to limit God according to our understanding. The difference between your "nonsensical statement" and the "nonsensical statement" that Xenephon made is that his statement is shown to be true in scripture, while yours is just made up off the top of your head.

Your entire argument for Jesus and God not being one being rests on the argument that they cannot be one being and 3 separate persons. This argument rests on your statement that such an existence is "nonsensical." By declaring it to be "nonsensical," you also declare that you understand all possible configurations, if you will, of being and personhood, and that it is not possible for any being, even God, to exist as a single being and more than a single person.

Have you ever considered that this is one reason that there is "no one like the LORD?" If Jesus created all things (as the Bible says He did) and has the power and authority of God, then He is like God. If the Holy Spirit is a separate God, He is also like God. But if God is one being, existing in three persons, who Himself created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them, there is truly no one like Him.

God berated Job for believing that he could fully comprehend God. Why should we think that we have more understanding and wisdom than God's "servant Job?"

 

[redleghunter]

Nonsensical only from a human standpoint, because we can only conceive in our limited perception of one being existing as one person. Thus some argue that what is impossible for us (for me and my wife to exist as one being but two separate persons, or more accurately for me to exist as one human being but two separate human persons, which are me and my wife) is also impossible for God.

It's also nonsensical from a human standpoint to imagine a being with enough power to "stretch out the heavens with His hands" who actually cares deeply about human beings who destroyed His creation by bringing sin into it, but that's what we believe.

It's also nonsensical from a human standpoint that such a Creator, who cannot abide the presence of sin, should care so much about the beings that He created that He would go to the lengths of sending His only begotten Son, knowing He would be beaten and killed by these created beings, so that these created beings could experience everlasting life and be united with Him. But that's what we believe.

Nonsensical is not an argument one can use against God, because "all things are possible for God."

Poetic and 100% doctrinally correct.

 

[Commander Xenophon]

This is a nonsensical statement. It's like saying, "My wife and I are distinct persons of one being".

No; while you and your wife are consubstantial, you are also discrete beings. This is anthropomorphism, by the way: you're trying to reason about an infinite being from a human perspective; we are created in God's image, not vice versa.

Its nonsensical. It should rather be said, "My wife and I are distinct beings that act as one".

Maybe, but that's not how God works.

This is the same relationship with the Father and Son, they are two distinct beings that act as ONE.

No.

Even the holy spirit, another distinct being, and all these act as ONE, yet being distinct beings.

You previously denied the unique individuality of the Holy Spirit, going so far as to refuse to use the definite article. Have you now changed your mind?

The Father is not a pie broken into slices to thus complete him,

We don't say He is. The three persons are not components of a multi-part God.

he IS and has no need of ANYONE, and from him, comes forth the Son, and also the Holy Spirit, and these two draw their existence from the Father, from whom all things originate from.

Congratulations, you just described Orthodox Trinitarian theology regarding the relationship of the persons.

 

[cgaviria]

You have proven nothing. The Bible says there is only one God. The Bible says that "The Word (Jesus) was with God, and the Word was God." The Bible also demonstrates that the Holy Spirit is God. This means that we either have 3 Gods or one God who exists as 3 persons. I won't go over the other proof texts for the deity of Jesus here, because they have been previously posted on other threads.

The point is, two verses in John where Jesus speaks about oneness are not sufficient evidence that the above are not true.

False doctrines and blasphemies are born when we try to limit God according to our understanding. The difference between your "nonsensical statement" and the "nonsensical statement" that WgW made is that his statement is shown to be true in scripture, while yours is just made up off the top of your head.

Your entire argument for Jesus and God not being one being rests on the argument that they cannot be one being and 3 separate persons. This argument rests on your statement that such an existence is "nonsensical." By declaring it to be "nonsensical," you also declare that you understand all possible configurations, if you will, of being and personhood, and that it is not possible for any being, even God, to exist as a single being and more than a single person.

Have you ever considered that this is one reason that there is "no one like the LORD?" If Jesus created all things (as the Bible says He did) and has the power and authority of God, then He is like God. If the Holy Spirit is a separate God, He is also like God. But if God is one being, existing in three persons, who Himself created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them, there is truly no one like Him.

God berated Job for believing that he could fully comprehend God. Why should we think that we have more understanding and wisdom than God's "servant Job?"

This is because you don't understand the distinction between the Father and all other beings. The Father is the one true God. Any other being, that may be called God, is merely a little god, which even includes Iesou Christ who is a little god in relation to the Father... as he is lesser than the Father, and is called God because the Father has made him Lord over all of his own creation. And yes, there are indeed multiple little gods, each in their own measure of authority in the household of the Father, but only one true God, the Father, who him alone ONLY predetermines all things, and only him alone has infinite knowledge (knowledge without a number), and is the one who gives authority, even to Iesou Christ, as Iesou would not have any authority unless it were granted to him by the Father, and Iesou has the highest measure of authority of all the sons of God. And all, including Iesou Christ, have come into existence because of the Father.