The Old Testament Death Penalties

Saintly Sinner

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And yet out of the Old Testament came the Ten Commandments and out of the ten Commandments five (5) of them have been put into law by every country on this planet.

The 10C's are virtually a moral constitution and really don't reflect the laws of Moses and the Levites. They simply had to respect those ordinances not unlike how American law has to respect it's Constitution.
 
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chuckpeterson

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Pharoah and his army when they went after Israel...

the Pharaoh and his army did the killing. Some may want to use God as an excuse but that doesn't fly. Even the Great Flood was not God's doing. It was an event that just happened. Here you can blame mother nature for it, but not God.

God is not a destroyer, He is the Creator

in my view
Instead of us going around and around on this lets just let this be and I will go my way and you yours
bye
 
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salt-n-light

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the Pharaoh and his army did the killing. Some may want to use God as an excuse but that doesn't fly. Even the Great Flood was not God's doing. It was an event that just happened. Here you can blame mother nature for it, but not God.

God is not a destroyer, He is the Creator

in my view
Instead of us going around and around on this lets just let this be and I will go my way and you yours
bye

Gladly, because you choose to be foolish in thought.
 
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tkolter

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the Pharaoh and his army did the killing. Some may want to use God as an excuse but that doesn't fly. Even the Great Flood was not God's doing. It was an event that just happened. Here you can blame mother nature for it, but not God.

God is not a destroyer, He is the Creator

in my view
Instead of us going around and around on this lets just let this be and I will go my way and you yours
bye

What? Okay the Flood God chose Noah, brought the animals to the Ark, loaded them in, sealed the main door, flooded the Earth and killed all life He could this was a direct divine act. He had cause mortals were mating with demons and creating hybrids of great power and that malice spread through the gene pool God had to smite the world low. This was no natural set of events.
 
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The Times

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But the question is, were their souls saved if they repented. Scripture says that God forgave every kind of sin, even though he did not leave sin unpunished.

From an Old Testament theocratic legal framework, similar to today's legal framework, a person is convicted of a crime, if they are deemed to have done so wilfully and receive the maximum penalty for their crime, if they are repeat offenders who have already been given leniency/mercy.

Many of today's legislation highlights maximum penalties for offences, but seldomly does a person receive the maximum penalty.

In the Old Testament, the maximum penalty legislated is death for homosexuality, however seldomly would a person get the death penalty for one offence or even two, if they are shown to have not wilfully committed the offence.

So there would be penalties as a consequence no doubt and a process of affording leniency to the offender. However repeated offenders may finally face the music and get death, but I would not think that it would be the first point of call for a judge in administering justice.

So the judges within the Old Testament court systems had processes in place to try and resolve the matter, by taking into consideration, whether there was genuine repentance and refraining from repeat offences of the same crime or there was wilful neglect and repeat offences of the crime.

So punishment may not be death as the first point of call for the offender, but a process that allows the offender to vindicate themselves through future probationary works, that is through restitution. No doubt that offender would be watched very carefully within their community and any future intention to break the law, may not have the leniency afforded to them. It is the same way God works with people, who ask for mercy.

Don't think that the Old Testament courts were not merciful, after all the last thing that they wanted is a tribal revolt as a result of a member of a certain tribe being murdered without the offering of mercy and the settling of the matter through restitution.

In turn, the tribal head of that community would put pressure on the offender to not bring his tribe's name into disrepute.

So the theocratic governance placed certain responsibilities on the head of tribal leaders to deal with their own communities, without the court systems getting involved heavy handedly, by executing every homosexual. Executing every homosexual would not be the solution to running a theocratic governance and it would be better to be seen as exhausting all avenues before a death sentence is handed down.

Now, before anyone goes off on me, I have same-sex attractions, which according to the Old Testament makes me worthy of death.

It does not and this is where your misconception lies. Your confession before God and the body of Christ, whom is us and all who have shared in your testimony, is your priestly jury who offer you mercy, so that you can through spiritual restitution vindicate yourself and through genuine repentance be cleared of any wrong doing by the Righteous Judge on the Final Day of Judgement of the Dead.

You would not be worthy of death today under the priestly Theocratic Monarchy under Christ Jesus, than you would be under the Old Covenant Theocratic Religious System.

However be warned, that it is written....

Hebrews 6:4-6
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26-31
26If we Wilfully keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

In Conclusion, now that you presented your testimony before the body of Christ and the many witesses, you have placed yourself on notice, that from here on, how you deal with your sin, after you have been afforded mercy, is how you will be judged on the Final Judgement of the Dead.

Do you understand what I have written so far?
 
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Introverted1293

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From an Old Testament theocratic legal framework, similar to today's legal framework, a person is convicted of a crime, if they are deemed to have done so wilfully and receive the maximum penalty for their crime, if they are repeat offenders who have already been given leniency/mercy.

Many of today's legislation highlights maximum penalties for offences, but seldomly does a person receive the maximum penalty.

In the Old Testament, the maximum penalty legislated is death for homosexuality, however seldomly would a person get the death penalty for one offence or even two, if they are shown to have not wilfully committed the offence.

So there would be penalties as a consequence no doubt and a process of affording leniency to the offender. However repeated offenders may finally face the music and get death, but I would not think that it would be the first point of call for a judge in administering justice.

So the judges within the Old Testament court systems had processes in place to try and resolve the matter, by taking into consideration, whether there was genuine repentance and refraining from repeat offences of the same crime or there was wilful neglect and repeat offences of the crime.

So punishment may not be death as the first point of call for the offender, but a process that allows the offender to vindicate themselves through future probationary works, that is through restitution. No doubt that offender would be watched very carefully within their community and any future intention to break the law, may not have the leniency afforded to them. It is the same way God works with people, who ask for mercy.

Don't think that the Old Testament courts were not merciful, after all the last thing that they wanted is a tribal revolt as a result of a member of a certain tribe being murdered without the offering of mercy and the settling of the matter through restitution.

In turn, the tribal head of that community would put pressure on the offender to not bring his tribe's name into disrepute.

So the theocratic governance placed certain responsibilities on the head of tribal leaders to deal with their own communities, without the court systems getting involved heavy handedly, by executing every homosexual. Executing every homosexual would not be the solution to running a theocratic governance and it would be better to be seen as exhausting all avenues before a death sentence is handed down.



It does not and this is where your misconception lies. Your confession before God and the body of Christ, whom is us and all who have shared in your testimony, is your priestly jury who offer you mercy, so that you can through spiritual restitution vindicate yourself and through genuine repentance be cleared of any wrong doing by the Righteous Judge on the Final Day of Judgement of the Dead.

You would not be worthy of death today under the priestly Theocratic Monarchy under Christ Jesus, than you would be under the Old Covenant Theocratic Religious System.

However be warned, that it is written....

Hebrews 6:4-6
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26-31
26If we Wilfully keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

In Conclusion, now that you presented your testimony before the body of Christ and the many witesses, you have placed yourself on notice, that from here on, how you deal with your sin, after you have been afforded mercy, is how you will be judged on the Final Judgement of the Dead.

Do you understand what I have written so far?

Yes I do understand. Thank you so much for speaking truth to me.
 
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Introverted1293

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You are supposed to repent of your sins in order to receive forgiveness.

Jesus said, "Those who live by the sword will perish by the sword." If you enforce the death penalty on others, they might turn and enforce the death penalty on you. Jesus and his disciples were not a police or military force.

Jesus also taught the wages of sin is death. Even if one is not sentenced to death, one will die of natural causes. One who is righteous may receive a reward.

Same sex lust is a problem. Thousands have died because of HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases like various forms of hepatitis, HPV etc. Celibacy is recommended. One may choose to not marry, but one is not supposed to do homosexuality.

This is what I need to hear. Thank you very much.
 
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Introverted1293

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I wish for them to be saved with a renewed mind, even if that means a path that is not all bed and roses.

I know that this post was meant for somebody else. But thank you very much for saying what you're saying. I wish for a renewed mind as well.
 
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Introverted1293

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When they have someone sentenced to death in the old westerns, the judge always says "May God have mercy on your soul." .If the person committed the crime but was never caught and died a natural death, would God let the person in? What if the person were wrongly executed? If the person were to repent I don't think there is much God won't forgive if asked, so I think grace can reach most anywhere. I don't know how to express this, but I hope God will help you see His grace and mercy.

Thank you very much. He will if I just start relying on him.
 
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Introverted1293

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The Old Testament was a very different time in the world- it doesn't follow with modern bias because it deals with a world that was a lot more hardened and unforgiving.

With the matter concerning forgiveness or salvation, the righteous were spared in Abraham before Christ came- how God chose who and who weren't righteous beyond the penalties for their wrongdoing is more or less a mystery in Scripture, and for good reason really.
Salvation is something between a man and God alone; the Apostles, particularly Paul, gives a good bit of insight but nonetheless there can be certain unseen qualities of a person that only God recognizes.

Yeah, it definitely is kind of a mystery.
 
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Introverted1293

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I have not found any scripture that stated God commanded the death of anyone, period. Murder is not God's way. And yes, He will forgive you if you ask him too. But you must mean it because He can see into your soul and if you are lying to Him you will regret it.

6th Commandment
"Thy shall not murder"

with no exceptions

In Leviticus it talks about certain sins that were worthy of death. If you read Leviticus it will talk about sins that people would be put to death if they commit. I don't know if I made sense what I just said. LOL
 
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FireDragon76

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The death penalty was never about condemning someone's soul. It was always about protecting the community from perceived threats to ritual purity or upholding some sense of justice.
 
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Small Fish

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The law of God demanded death penalties for certain sinners. Some Christians still preach about these laws, which I won't argue against. But just because there was a death penalty for certain sinners, did not mean they couldn't be forgiven before they died, right?


The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation. Numbers 14:18

Some Christians preach that because there were death penalties attached to some sinful behavior that it means that there were no forgiveness. Now, I am not claiming that because there was forgiveness there was no death penalty. I am sure there was. I will never claim anything that meets my agenda simply because I don't like it. If scriptures says that certain sins had the death penalty, then I am incline to believe it.

But the question is, were their souls saved if they repented. Scripture says that God forgave every kind of sin, even though he did not leave sin unpunished.

Now, before anyone goes off on me, I have same-sex attractions, which according to the Old Testament makes me worthy of death. So, this is not me pointing out everybody else's sins and ignoring my own sin.

I do not believe any of the Israelites that came out of Egypt was saved except a handful. Joshua, Caleb, Moses and so on. Their children went into the Promised land though.

Jesus said in John 6:47

47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48I am that bread of life. 49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.


And Corinthians 10:1

1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.


When Jesus were speaking of dead He meant lost. if you are saved the term that would be used is sleep.

Back then they did not have the Blood of Christ to atone for them. Only the blood of sheep, goats etc. So this was not enough to wash away their sins but only to cover it up till the real thing comes. This is why their punishments were so severe. I believe there might be more at play but as far as I understand they were lost.
 
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Monna

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Reading through this (and other threads) it strikes me that we haven't really taken to heart the fact of our natural state as far as our relationship to God is concerned, and what that means regarding any "justice" we can demand of God. And we seem to have collectively forgotten about God's holiness, his abhorence of sin (as distinct from His love for the sinner as a person).

Most believing readers will concede that when we are born (in the flesh or "of water") we are physically alive by spiritually dead. Dead, DEAD. !!!! But this deadness is very active in its opposition to God. (read Romans 1).

We all have or quickly acquire our own sense of justice, or fairness. And this usually means basically that "it is unfair if anything bad" happens to me. We ask endlessly, "why does God allow bad things to happen to 'good' people' (like me)?" assuming that they (and we) don't deserve it. But from God's point of view we, as unredeemed people, are DEAD to him, we are "at enmity" with him ...i.e. He is our enemy. He is holy and cannot tolerate sin. ANY SIN. The soul that sins shall die! That is a death sentence! Period!

Jesus told the Pharisees that Moses' law allowed divorce "because of the people's hardness of heart." Extended from his teaching that hatred is equivalent to murder, and lust for a mate other than your legal one is adultery, this means to me, that in instructing Moses to formulate regulations/laws for good social relationship within the community, he took into account a great deal of the human tendencies to react spontaneously to their feelings, their emotions, their impulses, i.e. their sinful natures ... but there had to be some control. And besides He is a loving and merciful God, slow to anger...

Punishments under the Mosaic law were actually far more merciful and "fair" than in other countries. "An eye for an eye" meant "no more than an eye for an eye." As late as the 19th century stealing a loaf of bread could result in the death penalty in England. I myself have lived in communities where a thief caught in the act of stealing a bar of soap in the market, might not make it out of the market alive. And this is in my life time. (And in the same societies, if the person wasn't caught in the act, there was no penalty whatsoever...so the trick is not to get caught in the act! With God you are always caught.)

So the real questions should be more like "why does God allow good things to happen to any of us?" Why does he send the sunshine and the rain on the wicked as well as the "righteous?" Why don't we get what we deserve? Why didn't all failures to keep the commandments result in the death penalty?
 
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Bruce Leiter

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The law of God demanded death penalties for certain sinners. Some Christians still preach about these laws, which I won't argue against. But just because there was a death penalty for certain sinners, did not mean they couldn't be forgiven before they died, right?


The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation. Numbers 14:18

Some Christians preach that because there were death penalties attached to some sinful behavior that it means that there were no forgiveness. Now, I am not claiming that because there was forgiveness there was no death penalty. I am sure there was. I will never claim anything that meets my agenda simply because I don't like it. If scriptures says that certain sins had the death penalty, then I am incline to believe it.

But the question is, were their souls saved if they repented. Scripture says that God forgave every kind of sin, even though he did not leave sin unpunished.

Now, before anyone goes off on me, I have same-sex attractions, which according to the Old Testament makes me worthy of death. So, this is not me pointing out everybody else's sins and ignoring my own sin.

Hi, Introverted! Your question points people to the differences and similarities between the Old and New Testaments. Yes, many of the laws have death penalties, but you must understand that in the Old Testament, the laws were for the nation of Israel as their national law. Some people have divided the Old from the New Testament too sharply by saying that the law was ONLY for them, not for New Testament Christians. Others want to impose on Christians the whole Old Testament law. Instead, I believe that the New Testament itself has continuity and discontinuity with the Old Testament.

That is, in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:17-19), Jesus said that the law continues on and proceeded to expand on those laws in his sermon. On the other hand, Paul said that Jesus nailed the law to his cross (Colossians 2). Both are the truth. The way to understand these two emphases is that the inner meanings, main ideas, and intentions of the Old Testament continue on in the New Testament era, whereas the outer forms of the laws have disappeared, for example, the penalties, which were for that nation. Therefore, the law's prohibition against same-sex desires and actions reflects God's actions that he created us males and females and that we aren't to commit sexual immorality (when single) and adultery (when married). The New Testament also emphasizes that teaching.

That being said, your same-sex desires and activities as with my impatience and impulsiveness and all other sins are all covered by Jesus' death for his forgiveness when we believe in his death and resurrection. Furthermore, his resurrection enables us to hate the sins we commit and to gain Jesus' power to overcome those sins more and more through persistent prayers of confession and requests for his daily strength to resist the lure of those sins.
 
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Colter

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The law of God demanded death penalties for certain sinners. Some Christians still preach about these laws, which I won't argue against. But just because there was a death penalty for certain sinners, did not mean they couldn't be forgiven before they died, right?


The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation. Numbers 14:18

Some Christians preach that because there were death penalties attached to some sinful behavior that it means that there were no forgiveness. Now, I am not claiming that because there was forgiveness there was no death penalty. I am sure there was. I will never claim anything that meets my agenda simply because I don't like it. If scriptures says that certain sins had the death penalty, then I am incline to believe it.

But the question is, were their souls saved if they repented. Scripture says that God forgave every kind of sin, even though he did not leave sin unpunished.

Now, before anyone goes off on me, I have same-sex attractions, which according to the Old Testament makes me worthy of death. So, this is not me pointing out everybody else's sins and ignoring my own sin.
The Old Testament is man made, evolved religion. Those laws didn’t come from God. Many other religions had it still have such man made religious laws.

Jesus revealed the true God in his life and he didn’t act anything like the God of the OT.

Jesus told us not to hook the new into the old....but we did it anyway.
 
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NeedyFollower

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The law of God demanded death penalties for certain sinners. Some Christians still preach about these laws, which I won't argue against. But just because there was a death penalty for certain sinners, did not mean they couldn't be forgiven before they died, right?


The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation. Numbers 14:18

Some Christians preach that because there were death penalties attached to some sinful behavior that it means that there were no forgiveness. Now, I am not claiming that because there was forgiveness there was no death penalty. I am sure there was. I will never claim anything that meets my agenda simply because I don't like it. If scriptures says that certain sins had the death penalty, then I am incline to believe it.

But the question is, were their souls saved if they repented. Scripture says that God forgave every kind of sin, even though he did not leave sin unpunished.

Now, before anyone goes off on me, I have same-sex attractions, which according to the Old Testament makes me worthy of death. So, this is not me pointing out everybody else's sins and ignoring my own sin.
Hi Brother ..Shortly after the Lord came and found me ( it cost me my family and many things although I do not care about the loss of things ..family was/is tough ) So having a tremendous change that cost a lot , i pondered if i had made a serious mistake ..the Lord could not forgive all of the wickedness I had committed ( I was same-sex attracted ..basically a womanizer ..lustful ) Then a gentle voice told me " consider my servant David " ...knowing the story well , it then made sense why God had allowed David to fall into all kind of sin ..not only the adultery with Bathsheba but the totally heartless crime of having his loyal servant and her husband Uriah deliver his own death sentence . Both of those are a capital offenses . The sword never left David's house but he was forgiven. David learned a hard lesson but through it God demonstrated the depth of His forgiveness . In some ways David died and was reborn . Likewise , we are all under the sentence of death and through Christ we have died and with Him we are resurrected . I am worthy of a capital offense but like the woman caught in adultery , Christ died for me ( as He did her ) ..So the death penalty is still in effect but we are all guilty ..everyone . As a side note , when returning from a trip overseas , I remembered thinking , "if this plane should go down , I will repent before it crashes " ..that is NOT repentance ..that is just not wanting to go to hell ..repentance ( for me anyways ) is to turn ..to change my mind ..to turn towards God through Christ and away from myself for in HIM is life while in my flesh dwells no good thing .as one more side note , i used to look for something "good" in my old self and the verse came to me " Why are you looking for the living amongst the dead ? "
This is why I can no longer serve on a jury or condemn anyone for I am worthy of death and received LIFE as my sentence from Christ .
 
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