The Normalcy Of It All.

[John S]

I am not following you. Can you rephrase it for a simple minded guy?

ME - So and so is the antichrist.
YOU - No. He isn't.
ME - So and so is the antichrist.
YOU - No. He isn't. I'm still here.
ME - So and so is the antichrist.
YOU - No. He isn't. God PROMISED us that we would be gone when he came.
ME - So and so is the antichrist.
YOU - Uh Oh. What have I done?

 

[riverrat]

ME - So and so is the antichrist.
YOU - No. He isn't.
ME - So and so is the antichrist.
YOU - No. He isn't. I'm still here.
ME - So and so is the antichrist.
YOU - No. He isn't. God PROMISED us that we would be gone when he came.
ME - So and so is the antichrist.
YOU - Uh Oh. What have I done?

If I understand correctly the view of pre-tribbers is that the rapture is before the revealing of the AC and the beginning of the tribulation. So I do not see the problem you have with pretrib.

 

[John S]

If I understand correctly the view of pre-tribbers is that the rapture is before the revealing of the AC and the beginning of the tribulation. So I do not see the problem you have with pretrib.

Never mind. Maybe you were correct about yourself.

 

[riverrat]

Never mind. Maybe you were correct about yourself.

I am just trying to understand your objection to the pre-trib view but you are not helping by calling me simple minded even if I am.

 

[KrAZeD]

Krazed - As far as Scriptures are concerned, I only need the words of Jesus Christ, when He said that "many will be deceived". I will let you misinterpret as many verses as you like to prove your Satanic deception.
If you would like a more detailed accounting of my opinions, then read the opening post of this thread and the opening post of my thread titled "Simply Put", which you should find on Page 2 of this forum.
But let's face it. You are NOT going to agree with me and that's O.K.

Luke21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

The beast exalts himself higher than GOD, he's not claiming to G Jesus.

Nowhere in that verse do we see that a rapture theory as false. No much more than john 3:16 which claims that were so loved Jesus died for us proves their is one.If we're that loved why would he let us suffer during his punishment to the wicked? I don't believe theirs ONLY 144k people getting spared from Gods wrath, While 144k are his elect and immune to the punishments. GODS just and righteous, why is he making us suffer with his hand. Are we not told are sins are forgiven? How would all the believers not get spared from HIS actual wrath, and he remain righteous and just. All I've asked is provide scripture bases that disproves a rapture theory. If you have none, then your idea is speculated opinion based on your perceptions.

Currently your correct, man is placing every event as a making of their own accord. Their taking the glory or punishments off of Gods hands and making it "mans" doing. Climate change/global warming - explain famines and heat. Collapsing economies/ identity thefts help orchestrate a one world dictatorship/currency. A war with a nuclear bomb going off can poison the seas as well as rivers- even Fukushima can do this and still might. But that really defeats an undoubtedly punishment from God. Nothing painted in revelation really makes it seem as a regular day to a believer, things will get way more severe. And as far as if millions disappeared from a rapture, many would rejoice and mistakenly assume their times of punishment are finished.

And your right, we won't agree. None of the Pre-mid-post-none rapture theories are "satanic" if their teaching only salvation thru Jesus Christ. Claiming so includes your theory as well, if a rapture happens you've been deceived with your own premise.

 

[KrAZeD]

I am just trying to understand your objection to the pre-trib view but you are not helping by calling me simple minded even if I am.

Mainly his stance is if you believe in a pre trib, and it doesn't happen, you'll worship the antichrist. Only because you think that your raptured and avoid the antichrist coming into power.

While he's failing to account for them knowing what the antichrist will do, and events that will happen during the tribulation. As well as them being able to realize they misunderstood the timing of a rapture- though the last part applies to his theory as well.

And his other part is the way the worlds going when this "tribulation" does happen they won't know, because they are looking for something devastating and not what we are "currently" living with.

 

[ACT]

I am not following you. Can you rephrase it for a simple minded guy?

Failure of educated/knowledgeable person to communicate with a first grader, whose fault is it?

 

[riverrat]

Failure of educated/knowledgeable person to communicate with a first grader, whose fault is it?

At lest I am not in kindergarten like you!

 

[John S]

Failure of educated/knowledgeable person to communicate with a first grader, whose fault is it?

If you are calling me an educated, knowledgeable person, then Thank You.
If you are calling me a first grader, then I do not Thank You.

 

[riverrat]

If you are calling me an educated, knowledgeable person, then Thank You.
If you are calling me a first grader, then I do not Thank You.

He is calling you the educated knowledgeable person and me the first grader. He is also poking fun at you because you are so educated and knowledgeable that you cannot communicate with a first grader.

Even a simple minded person like myself can see what he is saying.

 

[John S]

Krazed - I already told you that the Scriptures that you use to validate the Pre-trib Rapture are incorrect interpretations - but yet I'm supposed to provide Scripture to denounce a made up doctrine.

So in other words, I am supposed to prove a negative.

I will stick to the words of Jesus Christ when He said that "many will be deceived". You can stick to your made up Satanic doctrine.
Or in other words, if there is a Pre-Trib Rapture, you can tell me - I told you so
WHEN there isn't a Pre-Trib Rapture, your soul will suffer the consequences.
Good Luck with that.

 

[John S]

Oh - and just for the record. IF there is a Rapture, it will be POST-Trib. It will come AFTER the return of Jesus Christ and He is ONLY coming when He ends the Tribulation and begins the Millenium.

 

[KrAZeD]

Krazed - I already told you that the Scriptures that you use to validate the Pre-trib Rapture are incorrect interpretations - but yet I'm supposed to provide Scripture to denounce a made up doctrine.

So in other words, I am supposed to prove a negative.

I will stick to the words of Jesus Christ when He said that "many will be deceived". You can stick to your made up Satanic doctrine.
Or in other words, if there is a Pre-Trib Rapture, you can tell me - I told you so
WHEN there isn't a Pre-Trib Rapture, your soul will suffer the consequences.
Good Luck with that.

And yet you keep dodging the crux. What makes it a satanic doctrine anymore than your conceived interpretation? You can claim I've twisted every verse if you so choose, at least I'm demonstrating how those have come to the conclusion a rapture shall happen. While not ignoring the aspects that those taught of a pre rapture still understand who the antichrist is when he reveals himself.

How's it satanic to believe God will spare his punishments on his children?

Answer this, is God righteous and just if you as a true believer endure every punishment meant for the sinners, sexual immoral, thieves, murders and idolaters?

Our are sins not forgiven when we accept Jesus as our Lord and savior, and repent when we backslide?

 

[KrAZeD]

Oh - and just for the record. IF there is a Rapture, it will be POST-Trib. It will come AFTER the return of Jesus Christ and He is ONLY coming when He ends the Tribulation and begins the Millenium.

What's the point of a rapture if Jesus is here on earth in his millennial reign? Have we not just got done enduring every bit of the tribulation save one? The bounding of satan for 1k years.

 

[John S]

And yet you keep dodging the crux. What makes it a satanic doctrine anymore than your conceived interpretation? You can claim I've twisted every verse if you so choose, at least I'm demonstrating how those have come to the conclusion a rapture shall happen. While not ignoring the aspects that those taught of a pre rapture still understand who the antichrist is when he reveals himself.

How's it satanic to believe God will spare his punishments on his children?

Answer this, is God righteous and just if you as a true believer endure every punishment meant for the sinners, sexual immoral, thieves, murders and idolaters?

Our are sins not forgiven when we accept Jesus as our Lord and savior, and repent when we backslide?

The Pre-trib Rapture is a Satanic doctrine, as I have stated MANY times, because it will prevent people from seeing the antichrist for who he really is - and this is exactly what Satan wants - just as the "being saved" doctrine is Satanic because it allows human beings to think that they are better than God, and that is blasphemous.

The Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine also makes the adherents think that they are "special". At no time in the history of mankind, in the last 2000 years, have Christians ever been spared from torture and death. However, this generation thinks that they ARE "special" because they have been brainwashed into thinking that they are going to be spared, when they aren't.
In fact, one of the verses that Pre-Tribbers use to validate that doctrine states that more people in Heaven that John could count, were wearing white robes. Those people have NOT been Raptured. They have been martyred for remaining true to Jesus Christ.

I'm not stupid. I KNOW that you aren't going to change your opinion. My ONLY goal has been accomplished. You have heard my words and in that respect, I have been successful.
Have fun waiting - and waiting - and waiting - for something that is not going to happen.

 

[John S]

What's the point of a rapture if Jesus is here on earth in his millennial reign? Have we not just got done enduring every bit of the tribulation save one? The bounding of satan for 1k years.

I agree with you there. A Post-Trib Rapture would be rather academic - but if there is one, that is when it will be.

 

[KrAZeD]

The Pre-trib Rapture is a Satanic doctrine, as I have stated MANY times, because it will prevent people from seeing the antichrist for who he really is - and this is exactly what Satan wants - just as the "being saved" doctrine is Satanic because it allows human beings to think that they are better than God, and that is blasphemous.

The Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine also makes the adherents think that they are "special". At no time in the history of mankind, in the last 2000 years, have Christians ever been spared from torture and death. However, this generation thinks that they ARE "special" because they have been brainwashed into thinking that they are going to be spared, when they aren't.
In fact, one of the verses that Pre-Tribbers use to validate that doctrine states that more people in Heaven that John could count, were wearing white robes. Those people have NOT been Raptured. They have been martyred for remaining true to Jesus Christ.

I'm not stupid. I KNOW that you aren't going to change your opinion. My ONLY goal has been accomplished. You have heard my words and in that respect, I have been successful.
Have fun waiting - and waiting - and waiting - for something that is not going to happen.

Agreed osas is a very thin line to cross, and many thrive on it's presumptions.

And don't get it wrong, I don't dismiss your thoughts. I just want you to realize a pre trib rapture is not satanic in doctrine. No more than a post theory. Which was the only reason for challenging you. A satanic doctrine would G jw or mormons for example.

What's wrong with all rapture theories( including no rapture) is the aspect of people losing faith because they were expecting "a" and received "c". But that's not the crux, the crux is they had faith in man and not reading,studying Gods word yourself and questioning the teachings when they don't ring true. Because all theories are just that theories, until it happens trust and believe in God.

And in case you miss one point, if people assume no rapture and their left behind, their possibly not going to rethink their standing with God as in actually being saved, or miss the scope of continued serving threw martyrdom. Satan wants this if that scenario pans out.

All theories will get presented the same problem, is my faith correct, am I really saved, do I really serve God or just act like it.

Christians have suffered for Jesus' name sake, as prophesied. Though punishment to the wicked, God has spared his children. Remember GODS 144k elect who will receive his mark so their spared?

I didn't use your martyr verse, that I agree with.
And in case you doubt that generation being special or blessed-
Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

It's been fun, wether or not you see the dilemma your own idea faces as with pre rap, let God bless us both and keep our eyes open.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

You can stick to your made up Satanic doctrine.

Itching ears brother.
It's not a satanic doctrine b/c someone misunderstood and hopes for the best. Most of the brothers and sisters who prescribe to pretrib theology are deeply involved in current events and believe our time of assurance to be short.

Jesus Christ tells us believe on His name and be saved. Sometimes I think we all need to take a step back to those Words written and spoken of means to receiving/accepting/maintaining salvation, eat it up, refocus for a while, and then try to understand our disagreements.....not so much as to swing them to our position, but rather to ready God's people for what it to come.

I suggest that you try forget about the difference between what God allows and what God imposes.
Go back and reread Job. It reminds us that if God allows satan to do soooooo much to a single man and his family, imagine then what he will allow satan to try on this lukewarm bride we call ourselves.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

I agree with you there. A Post-Trib Rapture would be rather academic - but if there is one, that is when it will be.

OK.....so after 7 yrs of calamity, natural and manmade, including the final 3.5 yrs of it being hunted down, killed, imprisoned, tortured, starving in the wilderness etc etc etc.......
We're in the woods, dirty, malnourished, with a small group of about 15-25 others also barely hanging on....we've witnesses hundreds, maybe thousands walk in and out of our camps to go and be marked and find comfort.........suddenly, we awaken to a huge sound of a trump.....it doesnt hurt our ears, but it's global in it's reach....millions of believers across the globe all look up at once.......the nonbelievers and the marked have not heard this sound.......They're busy doing thier work in a/c's false utopia......suddenly we see burst thru the clouds our Master, Messiah, our King above all Kings....and He's followed by His legion......... Suddenly, the fog around us takes shape into human forms being vaccuumed up to the clouds where the King awaits them.....and our bodies dissolve without pain, but only comfort as we feel ourselves ascend.................what feels to us a split second, we are with Him..........................then, as all are accounted, He takes stances. The angels behind Him are desperate to finish their Father's work.....Jesus and His armies descend upon the globe as we watch from the clouds in our white robes of immortality.......He scourges the earth, His words become fire upon cities....the meteor showers did nothing in comparison as the sound of His voice incinerates monuments. The antichrist and his armies have been awaiting this invasion, as the ppl who had been marked take down to basements and flee into the mountains and the wildernesses we just ascended from. There is no escape of course.....they sealed their doom when they sealed their alliance.
It is finished. As our Bridegroom has separated the wheat from the chaff.

 

[John S]

Itching ears brother.
It's not a satanic doctrine b/c someone misunderstood and hopes for the best. Most of the brothers and sisters who prescribe to pretrib theology are deeply involved in current events and believe our time of assurance to be short.

Jesus Christ tells us believe on His name and be saved. Sometimes I think we all need to take a step back to those Words written and spoken of means to receiving/accepting/maintaining salvation, eat it up, refocus for a while, and then try to understand our disagreements.....not so much as to swing them to our position, but rather to ready God's people for what it to come.

I suggest that you try forget about the difference between what God allows and what God imposes.
Go back and reread Job. It reminds us that if God allows satan to do soooooo much to a single man and his family, imagine then what he will allow satan to try on this lukewarm bride we call ourselves.

WHEN the antichrist arrives and everyone is still here, then lets see how these people think. MOST of them will NOT believe that the antichrist has arrived - and THAT is what Satan wants and THAT is why this is a Satanic doctrine.
NO Pre-Tribber is going to say, "Oh the antichrist has arrived and I was so wrong to believe that doctrine" - or if you do believe that this is what is going to happen, then you are truly naïve.
NO - They are going to say to the person who is telling them that so and so is the antichrist - "You are wrong because I am still here and God PROMISED us that when the AC arrived, we would be gone. Therefore, so and so is NOT the AC".