The nonsense of "faith produces works"

[prophecy_uk]

New: "Give just one Bible verse that teaches there are Christian's that have never been saved?"




Yes, here are three, if they endure they will be saved, and faithful until death to receive life( saved)..



Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.



Now there are filthy dreamers crept in. They defile the flesh and speak evil of dignities.

The Lord once saved, then afterward destroyed, and it is set forth as an ensample, to those who afterwards should live ungodly ( thinking they are saved )

Jude 1: 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Christians call Jesus Lord, but for working iniquity, Jesus has said, He never knew them and to depart from Him..


Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Christians call Jesus Lord, but for working iniquity, Jesus has said, He never knew them and to depart from Him..


Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Wrong! You did not answer my question. Where in the new testament is there any Christian named a Christian by God that is not saved.

Matthew 7:21 is speaking of folks who think they are saved but will find out they are not.

Those verses are not teaching about specifically christians. Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 is teaching of whoever practises lawlessness. Those are the ones whom Jesus will not know, who will be told to depart.

Now try again. Give proof that Gods people ie christians, have never been saved. Give just one verse.

Would God name folks christians if He had not saved them?

You do realize that when God names you a christian, you are wearing the name of CHRIST-ian?

 

[New Testament Christian]

New: "Give just one Bible verse that teaches there are Christian's that have never been saved?"




Yes, here are three, if they endure they will be saved, and faithful until death to receive life( saved)..



Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.



Now there are filthy dreamers crept in. They defile the flesh and speak evil of dignities.

The Lord once saved, then afterward destroyed, and it is set forth as an ensample, to those who afterwards should live ungodly ( thinking they are saved )

Jude 1: 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

You have failed to give just one scripture that says a person is a Christian named by God and not saved.

These verses are christians who are saved but can loose their salvation if they do not endure to the end. The calvinist doctrine of perseverance of the saints and OSAS is false

As far as Jude, you have no evidence that these wolves were ever Christians. Where is your evidence.

You are misusing Jude 1 to fit your doctrine of unsaved christians.

 

[prophecy_uk]

New: Now try again. Give proof that Gods people ie christians, have never been saved. Give just one verse.

Would God name folks christians if He had not saved them?

You do realize that when God names you a christian, you are wearing the name of CHRIST-ian?"



Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

[prophecy_uk]

New: "As far as Jude, you have no evidence that these wolves were ever Christians. Where is your evidence.

You are misusing Jude 1 to fit your doctrine of unsaved christians."

2 Peter 2:But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

 

[New Testament Christian]

New: "As far as Jude, you have no evidence that these wolves were ever Christians. Where is your evidence.

You are misusing Jude 1 to fit your doctrine of unsaved christians."

2 Peter 2:But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

You really need to study the verses you keep using to show a person is chosen by God to become a Christian and be unsaved.

Your argument is ridiculous Sir.

God is the one who saves us.

He is the one who names us christians.

God never would name one a Christian if He has not already saved them.

Every verse in your last post to me is teaching on christians becoming unfaithful to God. This includes christians who will become unbelievers and loose their faith in Jesus Christ.

Not one of these verses says anything about a Christian NEVER being saved when God made them a Christian. Only AFTER they have been saved do they fall away, Galatians 5:4 just as Paul taught.

Fact: No one is chosen by God to become His child and still lost in their sins.

Your doctrine of christians never being saved is unbiblical.

2Peter 2 these wolves have already escaped the pollutions of the world ie SAVED but fall away, now LOST.

Hebrews 6:4 same error , these christians WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED ie SAVED now they have fallen away, LOST.

These verses do not teach christians have never been saved. They teach saved christians can fall away and be lost.

OSAS and perseverance of the saints is false doctrine.

 

[prophecy_uk]

New: "perseverance of the saints is false doctrine"


1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 Corinthians 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Luke 21: 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[New Testament Christian]

New: "perseverance of the saints is false doctrine"


1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 Corinthians 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Luke 21: 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Thanks for proving calvinism unbiblical.

The very verses you used proves perseverance of the saints to be false.

All of these verses you used teach we must strive to stay faithfull to God till the end of our lives, Revelation 2:10.

If we cannot fall from grace, then why does the word warn us over and over to remain faithfull? Answer is obvious, because we can loose our salvation.

Also none of the verses you used in your last post support your doctrine that converts to Christ in the new testament ie christians can be unsaved when God makes them christians.

Again you try and use Jude's epistle?

Jude says these wicked folks DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT!!!

If one obeys the gospel of Jesus Christ, they are saved by Christ! Period. No one whom God has made a Christian can be unsaved!

Every TRUE Christian (meaning God affirms they are His chosen children) has the SPIRIT.

You need to read the whole book of Jude Sir!

Jude confirms these wicked folks do not have the Spirit!

Jude 17-19
But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

These be they who seperate themselves, sensual, having NOT THE SPIRIT.

Now learn what the Bible teaches a christian has,

1Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLETH IN YOU?

 

[prophecy_uk]

New: "Also none of the verses you used in your last post support your doctrine that converts to Christ in the new testament ie christians can be unsaved when God makes them christians.

Jude says these wicked folks DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT!!!

If one obeys the gospel of Jesus Christ, they are saved by Christ! Period. No one whom God has made a Christian can be unsaved!

Every TRUE Christian (meaning God affirms they are His chosen children) has the SPIRIT.

Jude confirms these wicked folks do not have the Spirit!

Jude 17-19 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

These be they who seperate themselves, sensual, having NOT THE SPIRIT."











The beloved, are exhorted to the common salvation, that they ( the beloved) should earnestly contend for the faith, as certain ( deceivers) crept in ( wolves among the flock of Christians) and they speak perverseness to draw away men after them, ungodly men, turning the grace of God into their lust ( they profess Christ and deny Him in evil works ) then He will deny them.



Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Jude 1:3 BELOVED, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, AND EXHORT YOU that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.




Jude gives more about these ( antichrists) they are without fear ( of God) as they have not the Spirit, they are mockers, and are against the message right here, for the BELOVED, to build themselves up, on their most holy faith, and keeping themselves in the love of God, to look for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life..



Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 BUT YE, BELOVED, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 KEEP YOURSELVES IN THE LOVE OF GOD, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.



God is able to keep us from falling, by hearing the EXHORTATION, for us to be presented faultless before the presence of His glory..


Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,




Back to the Gospel we go, and we continue in the Love of God by keeping His commandments, even as the Son kept the Fathers commandments to abide in His love ( to keep in the love of God)

Again ( the exhortation against the antichrist deceiver) is to look to ourselves, that we lose not the full reward ( of eternal life) by not continuing in the things we wrought( the righteousness and good works of Christs commandments)

Continuing the exhortation, WHOSOEVER TRANSGRESSETH AND ABIDES NOT IN THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST HS NOT GOD.

He that abides ( keeps in the love of God) in the doctrine of Christ, he has both the father and the Son.

If any come to you, and bring not this doctrine ( of exhortation from the Lord in the Lords just judgment) receive him not, or be partaker of his evil deeds..



John 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

2 John 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.



Again, if any man teach otherwise, they do not consent to the wholesome words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the doctrine that is according to godliness.

They are proud, and know nothing, they dote about questions and strifes of words, with envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.

Perverse disputings of men of corrupts minds, destitute of the truth, supposing gain is godliness ( when loss and denial of yourself is to not deny Christ as they do)..



1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

 

[prophecy_uk]

New: "Now learn what the Bible teaches a christian has,

1Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLETH IN YOU?"


1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

 

[New Testament Christian]

New: "Now learn what the Bible teaches a christian has,

1Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLETH IN YOU?"


1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Good Bible verses but when are you going to give any verses that show the example of a 1st century convert to Christ that obeyed the gospel of Jesus and still was unsaved?

Are you not able to give any evidence of your doctrine that those who obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ were still unsaved?

Where's your evidence Sir?

Most of the verses you have used so far teach that christians can become unfaithful and fall away.

The Biblical truth of a christians salvation is:

First saved after they obey the gospel,

Then lost if they do not continue walking in the light.

There is not one example of any person that obeyed the gospel and was still dead in their sins as you claim Sir. Not one.

Why not admit your error?

 

[prophecy_uk]

New: "The Biblical truth of a christians salvation is:

First saved after they obey the gospel,

Then lost if they do not continue walking in the light.

There is not one example of any person that obeyed the gospel and was still dead in their sins"





To continue walking in the light, to fight the good fight ( of faith) to finish the course and keep the faith.

Then the crown of life is laid up for the Christian, as seen in Apostle Paul. ( dead in their sins if no crown of life laid up for them)


Apostle Paul showed differently of, Demas, who loved the present evil world, and departed unto Thessalonica, having forsaken Paul, Crescens forsook to Galatia, and Titus forsook unto Dalmatia...




2 Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
9 Do thy diligence to come shortly unto me:
10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.




Only Luke remained with Paul, (faithful in obedience to the faith) and Paul requested Mark for the ministry. Tychicus was sent to Ephesus...


2 Timothy 4:11 Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry.
12 And Tychicus have I sent to Ephesus.




Paul brought before Nero, had no man to stand with him. All men forsook him. Paul did pray that it may not be laid to their charge ( but they did things worthy of being charged by the Lord/forsaking/unfaithfulness/disobedience)

The Lord stood with Paul in front of the Roman judgment, to deliver Paul out of the lions mouth ( the devil as a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour, whom resist stedfast in the faith/not forsake)

Paul then salutes the faithful, ( not the ones who forsook him, as they loved the present evil world)

Salute Prisca, and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus.

Erastus abode at Corinth Paul states, and Trophimus Paul left at Miletum sick.

Paul sends the greetings of Eubulus, and Pudens and Linus, and Claudia, and all the brothets ( faithful who did not forsake/disobedience)

This is to who the Lord Jesus Christ is with, in their spirit.


2 Timothy 4:16 At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.
17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.
18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
19 Salute Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus.
20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
21 Do thy diligence to come before winter. Eubulus greeteth thee, and Pudens, and Linus, and Claudia, and all the brethren.
22 The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen.

 

[New Testament Christian]

The Lord once saved, then afterward destroyed, and it is set forth as an ensample, to those who afterwards should live ungodly ( thinking they are saved )

This is a passage taken from Jude 5.

This passage is referring to the hebrews not Christians, being saved from captivity of the Egyptians. God saves them then destroys them because of their lack of faith in God.

No evidence of christians in Jude that were lost when they first become Christians from the heart.

Acts 26:28-29
Then Agrippa said to Paul, You almost persuade me to become a Christian.

And Paul said, I would to God that not only you, but also all who hear me today might become both almost and altogether SUCH AS I AM, except for these chains.

Paul took pride in being called a Christian. There was no shame in wearing this description.

Paul's response to king Agrippa proves that he desires everyone to become christians!

If a Christian can be unsaved when they first believe and obey the gospel as prophecy_uk claims, then why does Paul put so much emphasis on everyone becoming christians if according to prohecy_uk they can still be unsaved?

This belief you have Sir, is in error of new testament teaching by all of the apostles. There is zero evidence that anyone whoever obeyed the gospel became a Christian and still was lost, dead in their sins.

To become a true believer that obeyed from the heart the gospel of Jesus Christ is to be pronounced saved by God Himself. Once God saves and names one a Christian, only then by disobedience and a loss of faithfulness can a Christian become an apostate.

There is ignorance among many denominations that teach to be called Christian in the early beginnings of the way, was only a derogatory insult to the followers of Jesus Christ.

This held belief is false. Paul proves it to be false when he makes it known to king Agrippa that to wear the name of Christ = Christian is honorable.

 

[prophecy_uk]

New: " This passage is referring to the hebrews not Christians, being saved from captivity of the Egyptians. God saves them then destroys them because of their lack of faith in God."





Yes, and again Apostle Paul exhorts us, how all Israel were baptized unto Moses, all ate the same spiritual meat, and DRANK THE SAME SPIRITUAL DRINK. They DRANK OF THAT SPIRITUAL ROCK THAT FOLLOWED THEM: and THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.

God was not pleased with many of them in the wilderness, they were overthrown, and as Jude says, " the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not."

These things ( IN THE OLD TESTAMENT) were our examples, to teach us ( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS) to not lust after evil things, as they lusted.

To not be idolaters, as some of them were.

To not commit fornication, as some of them committed.

To not tempt Christ, as some of them tempted, and were destroyed.

To not murmur, as some of them murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

All these things happened unto them (IN THE OLD TESTAMENT) for examples: and they are written for our ( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS ) admonition.

Let him ( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIAN) that thinks he stands, take heed, or he may fall....



1 Corinthians 10:Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.




Above they drank of that same spiritual drink, that Rock that was Christ.

Whosoever then( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS) shall drink this cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the boy and blood of the Lord.

For he ( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIAN) that drinks unworthily, drinks damnation to himself, ( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIAN) not discerning the Lords body.

For that reason, many ( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS) were weak and sickly among them, ( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS) and many ( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS ) slept. ( were dead in their sins).

The natural man ( without the Spirit as Jude exhorts us) cannot discern these warnings of the Spirit, they also do not discern the Lords body, and feed themselves ( of the Lords blood and body) without fear and die in their sins for not fearing the Lord...


1 Corinthians 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[prophecy_uk]

New Testament Christian: "If a Christian can be unsaved when they first believe and obey the gospel as prophecy_uk claims, then why does Paul put so much emphasis on everyone becoming christians if according to prohecy_uk they can still be unsaved?"




To fear God unlike the deceiving spirit, who has no fear of God..



Job 41:33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.
34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


The Lord was not pleased with those who fell in the wilderness, after He had saved them out of Egypt and destroyed them all.

Much more sorer punishment worthy ( for those who drink the blood of Christ unworthily) who tread under their feet the Son of God ( y doing the same abominations with no good conscience in them) and they count the blood of the covenant, that sanctifies them, unholy, doing this even when grace in the Spirit was given.

It is fearful for them ( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS) to be judged and to fall into the hands of the living God.

The just shall live by faith, when they draw back, ( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS) the Lord has no pleasure in them. ( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS)..


Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

 

[New Testament Christian]

When are you going to humble yourself and admit your wrong?

Your supposed proof is no proof at all.

Not one verse you have quoted teaches your false doctrine of Gods people ie christians being unsaved when the Lord made them christians.

All you have done is confirm over and over that you do not understand the passages you are using.

Every instance of Gods people that are in danger of becoming lost is AFTER THEY WERE ALREADY SAVED!

Some in the scriptures were never Gods people, never had any intention of becoming a faithful follower of Christ.

Listen, this is what you do not understand.

These folks were never saved, therefore THEY WERE NEVER MADE CHRISTIANS BECAUSE THEY NEVER OBEYED THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST.

As I have already taught you, no one is a Christian because they claim to be one.

A true Christian is given that description by God Himself!

Your position is ridiculous Sir! You think God is going to name His people Christians if God has not yet saved them? That is your doctrine. It is illogical and unbiblical to claim as you do that there are Christians in the new testament that were never saved.

YOU CANNOT BE A CHRISTIAN IN GODS EYES IF YOU ARE NOT SAVED!!!

You can claim to be a Christian. That does not make one saved.

Many claim today to be saved. Yet they are not. Therefore they are not christians. Easy to understand, why do you not comprehend this Biblical fact?

Much more sorer punishment worthy ( for those who drink the blood of Christ unworthily) who tread under their feet the Son of God ( y doing the same abominations with no good conscience in them) and they count the blood of the covenant, that sanctifies them, unholy, doing this even when grace in the Spirit was given.

It is fearful for them ( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS) to be judged and to fall into the hands of the living God.

The just shall live by faith, when they draw back, ( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS) the Lord has no pleasure in them. ( NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS)..

You continue to misunderstand the scriptures you use.

These are already saved! They can become lost.
You have the cart before the horse.

Listen to the verses you are using!

The JUST shall live by faith, when THEY(the justified) draw BACK (go back into willful sin) the Lord has no pleasure in them(the just).

Do you not understand the passages you are quoting? Apparently not.

Are the unsaved just? Are the unsaved justified? NO!

These are SAVED christians, God has justified them, saved them!

When the just fall back into the sins that God saved them from, guess what?

The just( christians) we be lost!

These passages teach exactly what I know to be true.

First, christians are saved by God.

Then after they are saved by God these same just christians can be lost if they fall back into sin.

I am stil
Waiting for any evidence of your doctrine of unsaved folks who believed and obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ from the heart.

Where is your evidence?

Humble yourself and admit you are in error.

 

[prophecy_uk]

New: "Not one verse you have quoted teaches your false doctrine of Gods people ie christians being unsaved when the Lord made them christians."

Every instance of Gods people that are in danger of becoming lost is AFTER THEY WERE ALREADY SAVED!



New: "Waiting for any evidence of your doctrine of unsaved folks who believed and obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ from the heart."






Why do you not use the other way of describing it now ? How God does not justify the wicked ?


You are reduced to rubble.



Now, by the name of Jesus Christ, is the name given under Heaven by which we must be saved ( and the disciples called Christians)...


Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.



The thread title, is against works, but how nonsense that is, as by faith the Lord created all things, and all things exist by that faith now, this is the Lords works, the same as the works the Son of God did on earth and finished, are the completed works of God in the faith of Jesus Christ.


Jesus did those works, faithful until the death of the cross, to show us what to believe in, which is the sufferings of Christ, which are non stop works of God in us now, too. That along with the mercies of the Lord, are His kindness and compassion to all, as Jesus healed all in need of healing.



Then, he that overcomes, needs the name of God written upon the, and the name of the city of God, new Jerusalem, coming down from Heaven, and the Son of God writes upon the one who overcomes, His new name...


Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.




After this, are the redeemed from the earth, not defiled, with no guile in the mouth, without fault before the throne of God. They sing a new song, and only the ones who have the new name of the Son of God written in their foreheads, can learn that song..




Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.


Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.



They see the face of the Lord God, and His name ( new name) shall be ( written) in their foreheads.

No man could see the face of the Lord and live, but the Lord Jesus Christ shows who is the blessed and only ruler, the King of kings and the Lord of lords, who no man can see..


Revelation 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.




The Christians as you say, that are named Christians and saved, then need the new name, written by Christ in their foreheads, to them who shall overcome the world, as Christ also overcame. But that is the new song also, which no man but the redeemed may know...


Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.



Now, they be blessed if they trust the Lord, and they do not respect ( do not hear) the proud teaching lies in the name of the Lord..


Psalm 40:3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the Lord.
4 Blessed is that man that maketh the Lord his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

Psalm 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O Lord, thou knowest.


Psalm 96:1 O sing unto the Lord a new song: sing unto the Lord, all the earth.
2 Sing unto the Lord, bless his name; shew forth his salvation from day to day.
3 Declare his glory among the heathen, his wonders among all people.

Psalm 98:1 O sing unto the Lord a new song; for he hath done marvellous things: his right hand, and his holy arm, hath gotten him the victory.
2 The Lord hath made known his salvation: his righteousness hath he openly shewed in the sight of the heathen.
3 He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel: all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.
4 Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise.

Isaiah 42:6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
10 Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.

Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

[prophecy_uk]

You do well to read all of these verses, they describe the righteous judgement of the Lord...



Psalm 149:1 Praise ye the Lord. Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.
2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.
4 For the Lord taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.
5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand;
7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the Lord.

Psalm 144:7 Send thine hand from above; rid me, and deliver me out of great waters, from the hand of strange children;
8 Whose mouth speaketh vanity, and their right hand is a right hand of falsehood.
9 I will sing a new song unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee.
10 It is he that giveth salvation unto kings: who delivereth David his servant from the hurtful sword.
11 Rid me, and deliver me from the hand of strange children, whose mouth speaketh vanity, and their right hand is a right hand of falsehood:
12 That our sons may be as plants grown up in their youth; that our daughters may be as corner stones, polished after the similitude of a palace:
13 That our garners may be full, affording all manner of store: that our sheep may bring forth thousands and ten thousands in our streets:
14 That our oxen may be strong to labour; that there be no breaking in, nor going out; that there be no complaining in our streets.
15 Happy is that people, that is in such a case: yea, happy is that people, whose God is the Lord.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Why do you not use the other way of describing it now ? How God does not justify the wicked ?


You are reduced to rubble.

No Sir, I am not in error of what I teach.

You are not addressing the accusation I have made against you because you know you are in error.

It is you who have claimed the justified can be unsaved, not me! Here is your quote of the justified being unsaved:

Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him

You used Hebrews chapter 10 as a proof text that christians can be unsaved.

You have the cart before the horse.

Hebrews 10:38 clearly teaches those who God has no pleasure in IF they turn back to living in willful sin are already saved because they are already JUSTIFIED!

You are using justified christians as your proof of christians in the new testament as being unsaved Christians! Nonsense and you know it!

Only the justified are saved by God. It is an impossibility to be justified by God and be unsaved as you have claimed!

Romans 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

The Bible teaches that to be justified by the blood of Christ is to be SAVED! Therefore Hebrews 10:38 are SAVED CHRISTIANS! Not your error of unsaved Christians!

When are you going to humble yourself and admit your error?

All these scriptures you are posting is your attempt at producing a smoke screen to cover up the mess you have made with the Revelation of the Holy Spirit, the word.